Another antidote

[Westy]

Honestly?   No.    Pilots scare me, not aircraft.

  -Westy

[Spatula]

Trolling or not trolling, JUST SAY NO TO JETS! It would become Jets High - YAWN...

[Ice]

Yawn....

Hristo....If it were up to me I'de give you whatever you wanted just to keep you quiet.

In addition, I think you lifted your skirt here for all to see...once you do get your silly D9, then you will began to incessantly cry for the 262.

Maybe you should start round one of a Venture Capital hunt and start your own online sim instead of constantly whining about this one.

BTW, are you even playing still, or just crawlin up our shorts on this board?

Your a good sim pilot and always have been, and for that I respect you....but this silly whining and posturing you do(you've always done this over the years)gets old

Just get in the game and let your flying do your talking....or are you afraid we might see YOU are not as UBER as you think you are?

I'm Out!

[Fury]

If this was a historical setup, i.e. country vs. country, I could *maybe* understand the need to have an equal number of equally balanced planes from each respective country.  But since I can fly any plane I choose, I'm having a hard time following why this is an Axis vs. Allies type of debate going on in these threads?  I find it more appalling that we can fly 190 vs. 190 than I find it appalling that the P51 can outrun anything.

Fury

<<edit>> BTW that pic really does make a nice wallpaper, thanks!

[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 09-22-2000).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
you.

The 109G10 can engage the P-51 at almost any terms at any altitude (up too about a 5k altitude disadvantage) and at least fight to a draw, if not usually win.

You Luftwaffe guys must get different G10's in the game than I do     because it is one great plane, and you guys just complain about it.

How much G10 have you flown since 1.04 verm?

Tour7:
- The Bf 109G-10 has 579 kills and has been killed 557 times against the P-51D.
 
Tour8:
-  The Bf 109G-10 has 200 kills and has been killed 219 times against the P-51D.

Ahem...  

1.04 has given the P51 still more advantage over Me109G10. In 1.04 ,P51 was a better arena plane, but G10 could kill using E-fighting.

 NOw it is devilish to kill in the damned brick the G10 is. You need tons of time and close fight, and that is nearly suicidal in the current main arena.

It can run more than P51. Over 5K. Under it is slower, and a 0G dive to the tree level will left any G10 sat down, because he wont be able to follow it properly.

 G10 has no damned highspeed maneouverability and P51 way outturns G10 using flaps wisely.

Not to mention the pyrric weapons in 109...

And you still dare to tell me that G10 can match a P51 in an arena environment?

LOL!




[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 09-22-2000).]

[Duckwing6]

Hristo im just wondering just HOW you want to hit anything else than a Bomber in these ..

From all accounts i heared they were very smooth and stable aircrfat but also hideously unmanouverable (read that turning, not covering vast space by speed) -> which was good for what they were designed for a.k. killing Bombers lumbering along straight and level.. but i don't think they could even hope to be able to kill a fighter unless he ain't seeing them approach (and of course if we'd get them they need contrails  )

Especially with the new FM you'd just go nuts trying to put your guns on anything more manouverable than a B17 or Lanc .. Oh and i guess you wouldn't see much else thanblack or red screen if you eventually did try to turn  

Just my Humble oppinion but i think it's going to be the super hit and run .. run .. run .. run .. airplane in the arena .. and then the LW folks will be called roadrunners...

DW6

[Mox]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
The 109G10 can engage the P-51 at almost any terms at any altitude (up too about a 5k altitude disadvantage) and at least fight to a draw, if not usually win.

You failed to mention the Pony is MUCH easier to fly and has a far superior ammo load out.

I'm not complaining about the G10 it's a nice ride but to say they are close to equal is not entirely true.

I can't fly a G10 for the life of me but even a novice pilot like myself can fly a Pony with good results.

Oh boy with that comment am I now labeled as a Luftwaffle or a Luftwaffle supporter?  

Mox

[Kirin]

Salute aces,

I've been a dedicated G10 driver since Tour2 and I find it an excellent plane for a 1vs1 also you can keep alive in MA but it's definitely no killer bird. The G10 has been consequently downgraded since it (marvelous) appereance and 1.4 gives it a very hard stand against all those miracelous E holding T&Bers. Its best advantage still is its acceleration, but lack of manouverability, high speed handling, guns and dive capabilities makes it hard to keep up with all those allied late war monsters.

Whenever a LW pilot comes up with the fact that the Dora would be a perfect cure for those P51Ds roaming the skies at 20k all the allies point at the G10. It may be true that their max top level speed may be close but a pony can disengage at will in a dive. And more over the 109 was a outdated model when the P51 hit the scene. improvements were made, true, but still it was a prewar plane. Why don't LW get something advanced for a change? Some of those marvelous new, revolutionary developements that were produced - in few numbers sure, but we got the C-Hog as well!! I agree that the 262 should be perked upon its arrival and I doubt that it will an easy plane to fly or kill with. And there are more of those "Secret Weapons of the LW" (tm   )...  to close the gap between those advanced planes and the outdated ones LW has now we need the Dora. As it was in reality it would feed the need for a high altitude, high speed interceptor -   one word about perk-system: if Dora gets perked, P51-D has to be perked as well!! (not to speak about the C-Hog)

Kirin out

btw: JG54 were the first to receive Doras...  

[flakbait]

Forgive me for being logical, but...

How exactly do you turn fight with something that runs around doing 540mph? You can't. It's just like a Komet; enemy turns, your shot is blown. Unless you're a master of dive and zoom, you'll get killed more than you'll kill enemy a/c.

The 262 in WBs is something people scream about. From what I've seen, they scream because they can't think. One little turn, even in a P-47, will blow his possibility for a shot. A 262 or a Komet will murder BUFFs, but fighter kills will be few and far between. Unless you can setup a perfect firing pass and not be seen.

Screw up just this little bit, and you'll blow it. Flying one of those means you have to THINK BEFORE YOU ACT. If you can't think, you'll end up with no kills and an empty gas tank.

Komet? Sure I'd like one in AH, same goes for the 262 or Ar-234. I prefer to think my way around the sky before I do anything. Then again, there's bound to be whining about any jet/rocket aircraft. "I want a P-51Q with rocket boosters; those 262s are too fast!".

Want something that goes faster than a 262? Go play Falcon 4 or Jane's ATF Gold. Want to kill 262s? Go dive after one in your P-51 or P-47, you might get one.

Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000

[Vermillion]

 

How much G10 have you flown since 1.04 verm?

Just about as much as I have flown the Yak-9U or any other plane that I fly. Definitely enough to know that the G10 is still a killer, and very easy to "stay alive" in.

 

Tour7:
- The Bf 109G-10 has 579 kills and has been killed 557 times against the P-51D.

Tour8:
- The Bf 109G-10 has 200 kills and has been killed 219 times against the P-51D.

Have you ever taken any Statistics classes RAM? Basically those numbers show that statistically, the two aircraft are effectively equal given normal arena variations. Thank you for proving my point  

 

It can run more than P51. Over 5K. Under it is slower, and a 0G dive to the tree level will left any G10 sat down, because he wont be able to follow it properly.

So why not keep the G10 in the portion of the flight envelope where it has superior speed? In the 5k-25k range? When I fly the G10 and I have to run from a P-51, I make sure I don't go down to the deck and I try to stay in the 8k or so range.

 

G10 has no damned highspeed maneouverability and P51 way outturns G10 using flaps wisely.

So? Each has strengths and Weakness. The G10 climbs faster, zooms better, accelerates better, is a smaller target, and is faster. Plus with its optional 20mm gondolas has much more hitting power than the P-51 and still outperforms it in the categories I outlined above. And your exagerating again RAM, the P51 has a very slight edge over the G10 in turning ability. Not, "way outturns".

 

Not to mention the pyrric weapons in 109...

And you expect a Yak-9U driver to feel sorry for you in that respect???   hahahahah The Yak has the same base armament in number and caliber of guns as the basic G10, but has even less ammo. Plus, the G10 has the option of the 30mm cannon, or the dual 20mm gondolas. You may not like them, but the option is there.

In fact, the whole reason I fly the G10 instead of the Pony anymore is that with the 20mm gondolas, the G10 is still as fast and has as good of an acceleration as the Pony, but has more firepower and can climb alot faster.

 

And you still dare to tell me that G10 can match a P51 in an arena environment?

Yep.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 09-22-2000).]

[Rojo]

What Verm said...

------------------
Sabre, a.k.a. Rojo
(S-2, The Buccaneers)

[Fariz]

Will be nice to have it in the game, I just imagine how hard will be getting kill against the beast with expirienced guy at it's controls.

Fariz.

[RAM]

OOOOkay  

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
 Just about as much as I have flown the Yak-9U or any other plane that I fly. Definitely enough to know that the G10 is still a killer, and very easy to "stay alive" in.

Tour 8:
- verm has 3 kills and has been killed 2 times in Me109G10.

Sorry I dont believe you in that statement.

 

So why not keep the G10 in the portion of the flight envelope where it has superior speed? In the 5k-25k range? When I fly the G10 and I have to run from a P-51, I make sure I don't go down to the deck and I try to stay in the 8k or so range.

easy, because then the P51 will run away and you wont catch it in your life. What you ask is to let go ANY P51 that dives under 8K?...sorry,but I find this quite surprising.And unbeliable  

 

So? Each has strengths and Weakness. The G10 climbs faster, zooms better, accelerates better, is a smaller target, and is faster.

but handles like an 8 ton truck, rolls like a pregnant whale and turns like a drunken cow. And lacks firepower.

 

Plus with its optional 20mm gondolas has much more hitting power than the P-51 and still outperforms it in the categories I outlined above.

Come on Verm, this is ridiculous. People in this BBS have said SEVERAL TIMES that the 6x50 cals on P51D are EQUAL to Fw190A8's 4x20mm (ridiculous by itself). So 3x20mm MUST have less hittin power.

Plus, and I repeat this until the end, the maneouverability and performance loss that the gondolas mean are simply unnaceptable.

 

And your exagerating again RAM, the P51 has a very slight edge over the G10 in turning ability. Not, "way outturns".

sustained? yes. but with flaps a well flown P51 will be able to turn inside the G10 quite quickly. I know it. I have flown both quite much.Of course if he misses the chance, then E will be a problem, but the position is won and he has his enemy's 6.

So, all in all P51 has the edge in turning fights.

 

And you expect a Yak-9U driver to feel sorry for you in that respect???  hahahahah The Yak has the same base armament in number and caliber of guns as the basic G10, but has even less ammo. Plus, the G10 has the option of the 30mm cannon, or the dual 20mm gondolas. You may not like them, but the option is there.

30mm is not next to useless in fightervsfighter role. 20mm gondolas?...read above....

And yak has 2 12.7mm monsters, while g10 has 2 13mm peashooters. Yak hitting power is BIGGER than G10's.

Ammo is another thing and we agree in it.


I repeat and will never stop telling it. P51 is the Arena wonder. And it has no possible comparation with another.

bring the Fw190d9 With Mw50. And the runstand will stop running and start fighting  

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 09-22-2000).]

[Citabria]

Citabria has 19 kills and has been killed 0 times in the Bf 109G-10.  

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
OOOOkay    

  30mm is not next to useless in fightervsfighter role. 20mm gondolas?...read above....

B]

Hmmmmm.....

Well, if we get a better pilot fatigue model for G forces I'm all for the 262.

Whats funny is you don't see people griping about the Tiffy now...better acceleration then the P-51, instantaneous turn is better, better gun package and can out run anything on the deck.

Only problem I see with getting the Dora are the people that want it. Once it arrives they are gonna squeak somethin ain't right.

Frankly I think people don't give a flip about how fast a plane is. A good pilot will survive because he thinks, not because of how fast his plane is.

Ya really outta look at the A8 again. It's a great arena plane now provide you take plenty of gas and at least 10k (because of climb rate   )

Lately I've had some unbelieveable fights with Cave in the Yak and 10Bears in the 1C.
Gun package is what kills the A8. Or it's my gunnery. I can't hit anything with the 20mm's unless it's under 200 yards or not doing eratic manuvers  

- Jig