Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!

[GrinBird]

In another thread leonid came with a brilliant idea: If a pilot goes too violently into a blackout/redout or stays in it too long, the pilot wounded effect comes in. I dont think its needed to get a permanent pilot wounded effect as when the pilot gets shot.
 Just let the PW effect step in a single time after a heavy blackout, that will add realism and void ppl to use Blackout as a defensive maneuver.. the defender dont need to see anything when doing defensive maneuvers but the attacker needs to see if he wanna hit the pesky blackout dancer.

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GrinBird

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Good idea.  

Camo

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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
 www.muodos.fi/LLv34

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

[popeye]

As long as it is "realistic", get's my vote.

popeye

[eagl]

I suspect that gameplay will be the ruling factor.  The blackout G load is already pretty low, since HTC has modelled WWII pilots in addition to WWII planes.  It's not exactly a macho thing, but lots of T-37 instructors around here routinely pull 6.5 G's (no G-suit) during our non-student training sorties just to keep our G tolerance up.  

It's frustrating to fly the game with real aircraft limits, my own skills, but be limited to the G tolerances of the typical 1940's fighter pilot just because they didn't know how to strain back then.  It's one of the big artificialities of the game IMHO.  

Then again, they could mod the planes so we can't use any tactics except those in the old USN and USAAF pursuit manuals...  Any attempt to fly in tactical spread formation for example, would result in a spontaneous death or blackout.  As long as we're being limited, lets really do it right  


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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!

[Ripsnort]

Eagl:  

It's frustrating to fly the game with real aircraft limits, my own skills, but be limited to the G tolerancesof the typical 1940's fighter pilot just because they didn't know how to strain back then. It's one of the
big artificialities of the game IMHO.

I agree with Eagl <S> ..I think G factor limitation for gameplay immersion is fine the way it is, think about new folks to the online sims coming into this world...

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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
=CO= VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
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[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-22-2000).]

[popeye]

"t's frustrating to fly the game with real aircraft limits, my own skills, but be limited to the G tolerances of the typical 1940's fighter pilot just because they didn't know how to strain back then."

Maybe RW could be configured to detect "grunts".  (Imagine the comments from our wives.)    

Seriously, I think the G limit is a separate issue from simulating the "disorientation" caused by rapid neg/pos G maneuvers.  Since I'm not a RL pilot, I gave a qualified yes vote to Leonid's idea, based on the assumption that rapid neg/pos G maneuvers WOULD be disorienting.

popeye

[Vermillion]

Ah but here is the crux of the issue.

Eagl, or Rip,

How many pilots do you know (today, 10 years ago, or 55 years ago) that can do do a hard positive pullup (say 5-7G's), instantly (reversal time of 1.5 or less) push back down into a negative situation (usually more than -3G's), reverse upwards again into another positive pullup (same strength 5-7 G's), and then do that sequence repeatedly for say 5 times?

There may be a few dedicated stunt pilots that could do it, but I bet they are few and far between.

But this manuever is very common in WB's and is starting to become common in AH.

Which is a better situation? Artifical Limits or Unrealistic Manuevers?

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[GrinBird]

Hey Guys dont make it a thread about G-limits, its not. The pilotwounded effect should be added to avoid ppl to ignore the blackout and dance like crazy when they are attacked.
Imagine that you are in a good lag pursuit on a guys six, and then he suddenly takes a very sharp turn you cant follow without blacking out. He is blacking out for sure but he dont care at all because its not him who gotta flollow anybody. But you who wanna shoot him gotta be able  to see him to follow him or to shoot him.
I am used to a similar effect from EAW, (Hey who said that EAW is an EZ-game?) where its part of 1v1 fighting skill to keep the fight on the edge of blackout. You can fly with tunnelvison in EAW, but if you go into total blackout, you will loose control of plane and if you are really rough you can loose control permanently. Blackouts are  modelled really good in EAW, but I have seen it overdone in a another game Fighter Squadron SDOE, where Blackouts are modelled so it gets annoying. The trick is to balance it so it wont get annoying, and make sure that the effect comes gradually.

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GrinBird

[This message has been edited by GrinBird (edited 09-22-2000).]

[dudedog]

You guys realise that people who use the manuever are dweebs blowing their E. Why would we want to prevent them from doing that? Just pull a hi-yoyo and wait for a good shot, sheesh.

[Citabria]

disable autopilot when blacked out...

Ive saved myself with autopilot a few times when I pulled to hard and blacked out for 20 seconds or whatever it was

i should have augered but didnt thx to autopilot which can be toggled even after you black out and controls lock up  

[Spinout]

Along the same lines, how realistic is it to be able to crane your virtual neck around to check your hi-6 while pulling 5+ Gs?

I've never felt anything close to 5Gs so i wouldnt know. It just seems like you'd need a neck like Arnie's to do that.

[air_guard]

LOL its still a game  
buy a plane or a join the airforce if not satisfied hehe.
we can only get simulated g effects here.

airguard

[Vermillion]

Spinout, I got to fly an AT6 Texan and in some of manuevers we pulled up to 4.5 G's, and I was able to "crane my neck around to check hi 6.

I specifically checked, since we were having the same type of discussion in WB's at the time. And I am a very average guy.


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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Spinout]

Cool, thanks Verm. Now i wont feel bad about pulling those hi-g rolling scossors anymore.

[Sundog]

I think Leonid's idea would be an excellent addition. I also agree with Citabria on disabling AP when blacked out. Of course, I would also like to see `gray outs' added as well.