Buff parity...axis v allies???

[bigred]

So with TOD we get 2 sides with lots of automated missions and "avatars"...roughly.

Is HTC going to add needed Axis buffs/ect, or does the Axis as a whole have to rely on JABO/tactical operations to deal with "winning the war/ strat"?

Lets look at the general comparison:

Fighters

Allies: lots
Axis: lots

Attack

Allies: mosquito, a-20
Axis: 110

CAS

Allies: IL-2 (plus lots of heavy JABO fighters)
Axis: ??? (few JABO fighters)

Medium Buff:

Allies: B-26, Boston
Axis: Ju-88, Ki-67

Heavy Buffs:

Allies: B-17, Lanc.
Axis: ???

Misc:

Perk planes: The Axis have all the GREAT perk birds (Arado, 163, 262).  Perhaps with some heavy perk alterations, some of these might make up for the planset deficencies in TOD.

So what do you think is the answer? Will HTC fill in planset gaps, or will the community split and as teams simply learn to specialize their war-fighting tactics???

-Bigred

[ccvi]

Originally posted by bigred
Medium Buff:

Allies: B-26, Boston
Axis: Ju-88, Ki-67

Heavy Buffs:

Allies: B-17, Lanc.
Axis: ???

AH's Ju88 carries more ordnance than AH's B-17.

[mos]

Well...  Sure.

Ju88:  4x500kg (roughly 4400lbs) plus 20x50kg (roughly 2200lbs) = 6600lbs
B-17:  6x1000lbs = 6000lbs

Add in the incredibly potent guns on the Ju88 as well as it's incredible toughness, and yeah, the extra 600lbs of tiny bomb ordnance is a big win.  

[Inferno]

The Germans never really used a heavy bomber. But the He-111 and Do-17 should be added for medium bombers when we start to get new planes.

Japan however, could use 1 or 2 heavy bombers.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Inferno
Japan however, could use 1 or 2 heavy bombers.

According to the Japanese the Ki-67 is a heavy bomber.


If, for Axis vs. Allies, non-historical setups we want some Axis heavy bombers then the only real choices are the He177A-5 and H8K2 "Emily".

Neither had much impact in the real war, but both would be quite servicable as real heavy bombers in the MA or CT.

I'm still not clear on the He177A-5's payload, but the H8K2 could carry two 1,500kg bombs or eight 250kg bombs or sixteen 100kg bombs or two 800kg torpedoes, was well armored and defended and had a surplus of engine power.

[Pei]

The Germans never really used a heavy bomber.

Over 1000 He-177 were built.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Pei
Over 1000 He-177 were built.

Which never so heavy, sustained usage like the B-17, B-24, B-29, Lancaster or Halifax.

[APDrone]

Without doing a lot of digging, another valid Axis bomber would be the Dornier DO217E-2 or M-1

Max speed at 17,600ft : 320 E-2 / 348 M-1

Max bomb load:  8,818 lbs  ( 4,000 KG )

Production:  approx 1,750 ( all 217 variants )

First flown in 1938.

Some interesting notes about the aircraft as they were outfitted with missiles later on and were responsible for sinking the Italian BB Roma with them after Italy's armistice.

I was looking up details of FW200C Condor and tripped over this little gem in the process.

<.S>

[Karnak]

APDrone,

The Do217 or Ju188 would both be good in my opinion, but German aircraft fans seem to want a big bomber, not just a load bearing medium bomber which both the Ju188 and Do217 are.

[bigred]

I think, HTC has 2 real choices here...

a) they go for the "quasi-historical" but balanced TOD, where the Allies and Axis have a balanced planset turning a blind eye towards airframes that may not have had a huge real-life impact on the war.

In this case, the H8K Emily/ He-177 have real potential.  They never saw much action (compared to say B-17s) but they fill a needed hole in the planesets and keep all us balanced in our WW2 sandbox.

b) they go the the "gritty-historical" TOD, where the Allies and Axis took very different approaches to the airwar.  The Axis in particular would simply not get heavy bombers as they did not empasize them in reality.

In this case, HTC may have to back some perk points WAY down and allow some of the uber Axis rides on a more regular basis plus add more buff busting aircraft from both Germany/ Japan.  Under this model, both teams would basicly evolve very different models of play, with the Allies empasizing "heavy offence" via buffs/escorts, while the Axis basicly resorts to dedicated "buff-busting" squadrons, with limited "tactical bombing" and a reliance on their "superior technology assets" (jets).

I haven't yet decided which model I would have more fun playing in.

[Cobra412]

Historically Germany never had a impacting long range heavy bomber.  During the Battle of Britain this came to the fore front and even though in years past many high ranking officials felt the need it never panned out.  

They had to rely on 110's, JU87's, JU88's and a few others but none were dominant such as the Allied bombers.  The 110's that attacked were slaughtered on there first mission and never returned above Great Britain.  

Though they did get some strategic targets many were down for minimal times especially the airfields.  The major targets affected were the long range radar systems.  Other than that heavy losses to the Axis bombers/fighters compared to Allied targets/aircraft deemed the Axis missions a failure.

[jordi]

My guess would be the more historical representation of Allies Fighters/Escorts and Bombers vs Axis Interceptors ( No or few Axis Bombers ) to start with.

[JB73]

the FW200 condor was DEFINATELY a long range bomber...

remember the plans Hitler had to bomb the panama canal with them? they would only get there and not back but still thats how far?

check HERE for more idead on bombers.

oh well just a lame thought by yours truly

[Sakai]

Originally posted by Pei
Over 1000 He-177 were built.

Yeah, and six of them actually flew without catching fire.

Sakai

[Sakai]

Originally posted by bigred
So with TOD we get 2 sides with lots of automated missions and "avatars"...roughly.

Lets look at the general comparison:

Fighters


-Bigred

The Ju88 was used like the Mosquito was, I reckon you can't leave that out of the attack role.

The Axis also has the Kate, Val and Ju87.  You also left off the SBD and TBM.  The Ju87 carries more tonnage than a single Boston does and places it far more accurately.  If the Axis had the Do217 they would have a very, very fine heavy, but as it stands the Ju88 is an extremely effective bomber with great payload, dive bombing capability, decent speed and toughness and average defensive fire.  The big advantage goes to the Lancaster and the B17s defensive positions/durability as it should.

The He111 is needed as well but it was slow (though it's crews said it was tough).  Someone mentioned the Do17.  That would be great to have after all else is modeled but it had an anemic loadout and pathetic defensive fire and you will only piss off the Axis side if it is modeled first.

Also, you can level an entire town in a G model 110.  I don't think the Axis are that left out of it, but I would love to see new aircraft models.

Sakai