Author Topic: LOL when it gets to this point ???  (Read 3088 times)

Offline MOIL

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LOL when it gets to this point ???
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2004, 11:55:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Nopoop

The problem is one of other players "not playing your way". They're in GVs, having fun, but not your kind of fun. I once made an observation which parallels yours. Mr. Toad understands well this problem. Why not ask his advice? Wait, I have it here...




:D



Hhhmmmmm, you're allowed to enjoy GV's ?  What a concept.

Is this a flight sim or combat sim?  I forget,  all this "neg vibe" in the forum clouds my memory.  Hi Arlo;)

Offline nopoop

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« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2004, 12:36:36 AM »
Wow, blew me away. It IS a year old thread.

I remember why I posted that thread.

Hasn't changed. If anything it's more so.

But I still find my spots.

Tonight was a blast.

Good times.
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight..

Offline Zazen13

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« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2004, 01:01:46 AM »
Ok, the problem and the solution is really simple...

THE PROBLEM:

The problem is multi-faceted. We have a game that began as an air combat 'sim' that decided at some point to widen its scope in an attempt to endeavor to be all things for all people. Obviously, this is impossible to do. In even trying to accomplish this impossible feat the core component (air combat) became diluted and to some extent, especially on certain maps (ie: pizza map), superfluous.

Another problem is we have a wide range of players from the greatly experienced to the true newbie who just picked it up last week after seeing the commercial on Discovery Wings. The newbie has none of the 'old vets' sense of WW2 Combat Flight sim culture and is likely just extrapolating the same mind-set template from whatever game represents his last massively-multiplayer online gaming experience (ie: Quake/Doom).

The latest problem with the game is what I call the attempts by HT to 'socialize' the MA in the political sense. Whereby, almost all components that previously added variety, unpredictability and a requirement to adapt new and unique strategies to counter are completely removed in favor of a homogenized population where distinctions are washed away, leaving nothing but a bland, barren landscape of predictability and repitition without purpose.

THE SOLUTION:

The solution is twofold, what we as the player can do and what HTC can do. I will not address what I think HTC should do as I feel that has been covered ad nauseum in other threads. As far as what we the player can do, there are several things.

First of all, I will use myself as an example. With the exception of the first six months I played AW in 1992 I have flown as I would have if I were an actual WW2 pilot (lone wolf), to survive. Between 1992 and now there have been several versions of AW and 2 versions of AH. Many times during that period I was confronted with situations, both game based and player based,  that made my particular way of enjoying the game more problematic, for me there was just one solution , adapt. This is my advice to anyone, adapt your tactics/style to accomodate the environment. Don't expect the environment to adapt to your tactics/style, it ain't gonna friggin' happen, the next ice age will happen first I promise you.

Secondly, realise your average newbie that just started last week after seeing the commercial almost certainly does not read these forums. If the way the 'new blood' plays is disconcerting to your 'old vet' sensibilities well, it's in your vested interest to indoctrinate these newbies. Take some time, make them aware of what actions are 'cool' or not, don't expect them to pick this stuff up by osmosis.

The last thing is, realise when you are the problem, I have taken many breaks over the years from a day to 2 years. Don't keep playing after the most common thing you see referenced to you on channel 200 is, "Zazen, you forget your meds today?!?!". The furstration level often reaches a point where the flaws you see in the game or the players seem far more impactfull and pronounced than they normally otherwise would. Have the introspective analysis to know when to step back from the stick, take a deep breath and re-assess what it is about this 'game' that is getting you upset and whether or not it's really worth it.

Peace!

Zazen
« Last Edit: September 11, 2004, 01:48:44 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
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Offline KurtVW

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« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2004, 01:13:17 AM »
I kinda think HTC should just shut off scoring for a month or two.  Just to make us fly for fun rather than score.

I think it would make a world of difference once everyone stopped looking for score.

Offline Cooley

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« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2004, 01:17:56 AM »
Good Post Z

It is important to take breaks....
Sometimes I worry too much about the "War" and the "Map situation" and can affect my mood, thats when I know its time to take a few days off. Ive found the game seems alot funner when ya return, and its just fun to fly, win or lose
Cooleyof 367th

Offline DoKGonZo

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« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2004, 01:57:38 AM »
The whole GV end of the system needs to be re-evaluated. No way in hell you should be able to operate tanks within 5 miles of tactical bombers without any air cover whatsoever. Biggest problem really is that there's nothing in the "food chain" to prey on GV's other than other GV's. Which is one reason for the idiocy.

A simple solution: provide a load-out for the Sturmi, Hurri IID, and Yak-9T which replaces the HE ammo in the cannons with AP. So you can't do much air-to-air, or against structures, but ah piddy da foo in a GV that gets caught without air cover.

This could produce a subtle, but vital change. If you go to attack a base and don't have a couple tank-busters around, well, you deserve to spend 7 hours trying to take the base down as you try to bomb GV's. But if  you do bring tank-busters, you best protect them.

Maybe it ain't 1000% accurate, but what we have now is really getting lame. Pork ord and tanks become virtually un-killable. The MA is sinking lower and lower on the IQ scale.

    -DoK

Offline MOIL

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« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2004, 03:19:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The whole GV end of the system needs to be re-evaluated. No way in hell you should be able to operate tanks within 5 miles of tactical bombers without any air cover whatsoever. Biggest problem really is that there's nothing in the "food chain" to prey on GV's other than other GV's. Which is one reason for the idiocy.

A simple solution: provide a load-out for the Sturmi, Hurri IID, and Yak-9T which replaces the HE ammo in the cannons with AP. So you can't do much air-to-air, or against structures, but ah piddy da foo in a GV that gets caught without air cover.

This could produce a subtle, but vital change. If you go to attack a base and don't have a couple tank-busters around, well, you deserve to spend 7 hours trying to take the base down as you try to bomb GV's. But if  you do bring tank-busters, you best protect them.

Maybe it ain't 1000% accurate, but what we have now is really getting lame. Pork ord and tanks become virtually un-killable. The MA is sinking lower and lower on the IQ scale.

    -DoK


Yes it does need to be re-evaluated, getting ords dropped on your head by countless bombers & jabo's was always the norm.
 
" but ah piddy da foo in a GV that gets caught without air cover"

While this is valid, this is the same reason I suggested better mobil/towable AA platforms along with more MBT's and support veh's.

Offline simshell

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« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2004, 03:22:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The whole GV end of the system needs to be re-evaluated. No way in hell you should be able to operate tanks within 5 miles of tactical bombers without any air cover whatsoever. Biggest problem really is that there's nothing in the "food chain" to prey on GV's other than other GV's. Which is one reason for the idiocy.

A simple solution: provide a load-out for the Sturmi, Hurri IID, and Yak-9T which replaces the HE ammo in the cannons with AP. So you can't do much air-to-air, or against structures, but ah piddy da foo in a GV that gets caught without air cover.

This could produce a subtle, but vital change. If you go to attack a base and don't have a couple tank-busters around, well, you deserve to spend 7 hours trying to take the base down as you try to bomb GV's. But if  you do bring tank-busters, you best protect them.

Maybe it ain't 1000% accurate, but what we have now is really getting lame. Pork ord and tanks become virtually un-killable. The MA is sinking lower and lower on the IQ scale.

    -DoK


not sure about that iv been able to disable panzer with a short burst from ether IL2 or Yak-t with ease right now
known as Arctic in the main

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2004, 07:10:51 AM »
Was there a feild capture attempt going on?
From what you discribe, thats what it sounds like.
And if there was they were doing it the smart way

If your trying to takew the feild, & the goon is only a few minutes out it makes perfect sence to camp all the runway points,aircraft hangars AND especially leave the VH up.

Immediately after a capture is usually when a base is the most vulnerable for recapture. All thats up at the city is ack and most if not all players are ending mission to land those kills,vulches, refuel,rearm etc.
Plus I dont know about rooks and bish but Knights seem to have this nasty habit of forgetting to stick around and defend a base after its taken and just moving on to the next one

Leaving the VH up  enables you to have an imediate GV defence as soon as the base gets captured rather then having to wait 15 minutes for it to re-up to counter any enemy counter offencive to try to recapture the base before the city pops back up.

Any enemy GVs that happen to be up when the feild is captured can be more easily mopped up with the VH up then if its taken down too soon to capture.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2004, 07:36:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The whole GV end of the system needs to be re-evaluated. No way in hell you should be able to operate tanks within 5 miles of tactical bombers without any air cover whatsoever. Biggest problem really is that there's nothing in the "food chain" to prey on GV's other than other GV's. Which is one reason for the idiocy.

A simple solution: provide a load-out for the Sturmi, Hurri IID, and Yak-9T which replaces the HE ammo in the cannons with AP. So you can't do much air-to-air, or against structures, but ah piddy da foo in a GV that gets caught without air cover.

Maybe it ain't 1000% accurate, but what we have now is really getting lame. Pork ord and tanks become virtually un-killable. The MA is sinking lower and lower on the IQ scale.

    -DoK


There is an old saying that goes back to WWI and it is as true today as it was then
"the best way to kill a tank is with another tank"

There are few documented cases of fighter aircraft actually destroying Tanks. Panzers and Tigers in particular using machine gun bullets alone. Damaged yes, destroyed no. the VAST majority of tanks killed by aircraft were destroyed by bombs not bullets.
Exept with the possable exeption if the IL. And even then as its been pointed out in another forum that THAT aircraft seems to have gotten more credit then it deserved.

As the game stands now its probably pretty close to oaccurate. the best I've seen yet. Tanks can be damaged, Turrets taken out, Tracks knocked off, Engines damaged. and yes even sometimes destroyed. but the former 3 is more likely then the latter when using bullets alone. And thats the way it was.

Yes Take out ammo and tanks do get harder to kill. So do bases and CV's thats the whole point in taking out ammo.
and the more reason for people to do the unthinkable. Defending their bases from attack. Its not all THAT easy to take out all the ammo at a base thats defended. I know Ive done it. Im pretty good at it too. but its ot as simple as just flying in and pop pop pop and all the ammo is down if there are people actually defending their base
Tanks can still be damaged and sometimes destroyed by use of guns alone if you know how to do it. (most dont and thus fail) but its alot tougher without the use of other tanks.

And thats the way is supposed to be
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2004, 07:39:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by simshell
not sure about that iv been able to disable panzer with a short burst from ether IL2 or Yak-t with ease right now


Yea. specially if Im in the panzer LMAO
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2004, 09:00:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MJHerman
I can't remember the name, but it was one of those unpronounceable names.  Something like "spqr" or something like that, but I can't exactly remember.



I seriously doubt it was SPQR. If it was not, you owe him a BIG apology.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2004, 09:05:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
"....surprise surprise, its the chickenhead who asked me to join their squad. "

That's baloney (that players action, not your post). IMO you really should just tell us who it was.  As long as you hide thier identity due to some perceived "correctness" there can't be any community "inquisition."  And no way we can mock or make fun of them for having to use such a lame tardass ploy to get "kills."

Westy


You should be very careful in your requests like this. Very likely in this case you've asked a question that has lead to the false accusation of an innocent person. SPQR is a bomber pilot who is not in a squad.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

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Online Shane

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« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2004, 10:08:49 AM »
you're aware the post you're quoting is a year old?
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2004, 10:38:40 AM »
The best solution to the GV thing would be to make their travel time to a fight at least the equivalent of an airplane's travel time to a fight.

If you play on a map where the fields are a sector apart and it takes roughly 7 minutes of cruise/climb for an average fighter to get from field A to field B, it should take a tank at least 7 minutes to get there as well. In actuality, given that tanks are at best about 1/8 th as fast as a plane in cruise climb, it should take the GV nearly an hour to get there.

Get rid of the "instant GV spawn points into battle" and you'll see a marked change in gameplay.

To me, the "instant GV spawn points into battle" would be the equivalent of instant spawning your fighter at 15K halfway between fields.

Think of the screaming if one could hit the "15K midpoint spawn" button in the airplane hangar. Yet we accept essentially the same idea for GV's without question.
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