Author Topic: Wanna learn programming (Read 2317 times)

Nilsen · « **Reply #30 on:** September 07, 2003, 02:53:07 AM »

Id say basic looked simpler, but i still have no clue what those lines means

Thx for all the info tonight.
Are any of these compilers or whatever you called em available for free/cheap?

Monk · « **Reply #31 on:** September 07, 2003, 03:40:46 AM »

This freakin thread makes my head hurt.

Nilsen · « **Reply #32 on:** September 07, 2003, 04:14:13 AM »

So does mine and not only cause i had a few to many yesterday.

Cant wait to try this stuff out

bigUC · « **Reply #33 on:** September 07, 2003, 05:56:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gadfly

30 POKE &HFFEF,&H00

Which do you think a total newbie to programming will be able to figure out, learn and apply? [/B]

1. Probably the code that has comments

2. Hey! Thats Commodore BASIC, isn't it? Havent seen that in 15 years :-)

Skuzzy · « **Reply #34 on:** September 07, 2003, 08:23:18 AM »

Gadfly, that is not C, that is C++. Very different.

C++ is indeed ugly. C is much easier to read and debug, and will generally produce smaller and faster code. I would not start with C++. It is much more difficult than C for a beginning programmer. I know C++, but never use it. The code is just plain ugly to work with.

BASIC can teach you some bad habits as it is a very unstructured language.

Learning C is not that difficult. You need a strong sense of logic or you will struggle. But that is true of any lanuage.

Nilsen · « **Reply #35 on:** September 07, 2003, 08:33:56 AM »

So if i decide to go for C, i can use it for windows and OSX?

Is the software very expensive? Guess im looking for a c compiler now

Btw, found this website, anyone know if its good or do you know any better?

http://cplus.about.com/library/blctut.htm

Skuzzy · « **Reply #36 on:** September 07, 2003, 08:49:10 AM »

C can be used on any platform. For Windows, the Visual Studio or just Visual C++ products can be used. Not cheap, but pretty good products.

To program in C under Visual Studio, you just use the '.c' filename extension, instead of '.cpp'.

Makes it much easier to write code that is portable across all operating systems.

Pei · « **Reply #37 on:** September 07, 2003, 08:52:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Gadfly, that is not C, that is C++. Very different.

C++ is indeed ugly. C is much easier to read and debug, and will generally produce smaller and faster code. I would not start with C++. It is much more difficult than C for a beginning programmer. I know C++, but never use it. The code is just plain ugly to work with.

I have to disagree with you there: for complex projects I prefer C++: well designed and written C++ is much easier to deal with.
C too easily ends up as a long convoluted spaghettie of functions with little or no structure. But then I was brought up, so to speak, in the object orientated world. C++ is just a superset of C anyway (assuming you stick to ANSI standards) so the one leads to another.

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy

BASIC can teach you some bad habits as it is a very unstructured language.

I definitely agree with that: this also goes for M$ VisualBasic as well.

My advice: learn C (and then C++

) or Java. Which one depends on what you are trying to do. C/C++ are more computationally efficient, Java is generally easier and has lots of things already written for you. Programming languages are just tools: you pick the right one for the job - be careful of people who get fanatical about them!

My other piece of advice is this:
Learn to do all the tasks involved in writing a piece of software yourself, inlcuding compiling, linking, build files etc. Too many people start off using fancy development environments like JBuilder & Visual Studio and then can't figure out how to get things work when they go wrong (or move to another environment).

Nilsen · « **Reply #38 on:** September 07, 2003, 08:57:18 AM »

My thought exactly Pei.....i wanna learn it all from scratch....

When making webpages i use dreamweaver, and i love it...BUT its kinda like cheating and i sometimes run into trouble cause i never bothered to get good at html.

ccvi · « **Reply #39 on:** September 07, 2003, 09:02:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DmdMac
I suppose if you run Windows 3.11 or earlier, but how many is that? That's not very realistic for developed countries, and anyone that is still using 3.11 or earlier needs to look at legacyware, nothing modern.

I've seen it on NT4 boxes.

Pei · « **Reply #40 on:** September 07, 2003, 09:07:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen10
So if i decide to go for C, i can use it for windows and OSX?

Is the software very expensive? Guess im looking for a c compiler now

Btw, found this website, anyone know if its good or do you know any better?

http://cplus.about.com/library/blctut.htm

For a C compiler go to http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/gcc.html and get GCC: it's free and available for many platforms (it is also a C++ compiler among other things but you don't need to worry about that). All you really need on top of that is a text editor: since Notepad is pretty awful I would recommend TextPad or slightly more advanced tools such as SlickEdit or QuickEdit. Emacs has a good C mode but you might find that a little strange.

Also I recomend you get yourself a book: websites never have enough detail.
I used this one http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0131103628/qid=1062943333/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-3570035-6048640?v=glance&s=books (or at least the first edition of it).
Almost everyone learnt C from this book.

When you get stuck (and you will do) try posting on comp.lang.c or one of the other news groups: there are usually plenty of people willing to help a beginner.

Pei · « **Reply #41 on:** September 07, 2003, 09:09:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen10
My thought exactly Pei.....i wanna learn it all from scratch....

When making webpages i use dreamweaver, and i love it...BUT its kinda like cheating and i sometimes run into trouble cause i never bothered to get good at html.

Yeah, dreamweaver produces some pretty horrible HTML!

ccvi · « **Reply #42 on:** September 07, 2003, 09:17:03 AM »

C or C++ is not a matter which is easier to read or learn. It's a different approach of programming (imperative vs. object oriented).

Object oriented programming does allow and even somewhat enforces more strucutred code in many cases. But when something needs to be done later that is not allowed by the structure it get's ugly. Also the compiler has a lot more difficult job to do, which results in less efficient code. The most important OOP features can be simulated in plain C, e.g. by adding function pointers to structures. But that's probably nothing to start learning with.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #43 on:** September 07, 2003, 10:03:24 AM »

Pei, operating systems are written in C, not C++. This is just one example of highly complex code that is best written in C.

As far as structure, it is simpler to write structured code in C, but it is a discipline. You can certainly write ugly code in any language.
C++ can also teach you bad memory management. C forces you to understand memory management. For a beginner, it is imperative they understand memory management. C++ lets you get lazy in this area.
Where most beginners stumble concerns pointers. Using C, it is easier to see how pointers are used. C++ allows you to be lazy here as well.

C also wins hand down on efficiency, in terms of code execution speed as you have very specific control over parameters being used/passed in functions.

Coding up something that runs in Windows could be done faster in C++, but not always.

Tuomio · « **Reply #44 on:** September 07, 2003, 01:34:22 PM »

This is what i would do:

Buy a Java book for starters, minimun 300 pages, that INCLUDES Borland Jbuilder software. Good builder is the most important thing when you start to learn programming. Thats because you need good helpfile behind the F1 button and good info on the compiling errors.

Java is good, you can get pretty far with it, it also offers super good and huge help database in java.sun.com. Its discussion forums are invaluable when you start making progress with your skills, usually the first hit with the search has the solution for you. Most importantly, java offers good ways to make the learning progress fun.