Vietnam, did somebody say Vietnam?

[rpm]

From USA TODAY
 

In Vietnam, the last sustained war the nation fought, the United States spent $111 billion during the eight years of the war, from 1964 to 1972. Adjusted for inflation, that's more than $494 billion, an average of $61.8 billion per year, or $5.15 billion per month.

The new casualty rate of wounded in action is 10 per day, up 35% from the previous month.
From The Washington Post  
 

The number of those wounded in action, which totals 1,124 since the war began in March, has grown so large, and attacks have become so commonplace, that U.S. Central Command usually issues news releases listing injuries only when the attacks kill one or more troops. The result is that many injuries go unreported.

Even the former chief of Central Command is speaking out.
From The Washington Post

"There is no strategy or mechanism for putting the pieces together," said retired Marine Gen. Anthony C. Zinni, and so, he said, "we're in danger of failing."
"My contemporaries, our feelings and sensitivities were forged on the battlefields of Vietnam, where we heard the garbage and the lies, and we saw the sacrifice," said Zinni, who was severely wounded while serving as an infantry officer in that conflict. "I ask you, is it happening again?"
Underscoring how much his views have changed since 2000, he implied that the Bush administration is now damaging the U.S. military in the way that Bush and Vice President Cheney during that campaign charged that the Clinton administration had done. "We can't go on breaking our military and doing things like we're doing now," he said.

Is Country Joe and the Fish still around? And it's 1, 2, 3.....

[Ripsnort]

Fell for that "Its Vietnam!" thang, did ya? LOL!

[rpm]

I'm not the one thats falling.

[FUNKED1]

So RPM you think the US military should withdraw?

[rpm]

I think we have made a mess of things. There was no plan other than invasion. The longer US troops stay there the more resentment builds against them.

[Fishu]

US definately shouldn't retreat now after so much of slandering the french, germany and UN, will to find WMD, will to kick saddam and will to liberate iraqis.

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by rpm371
I think we have made a mess of things. There was no plan other than invasion. The longer US troops stay there the more resentment builds against them.

So what exactly would you do differently?

[rpm]

Maybe get the support of the UN before invading as we did in the Gulf War.

From The Washington Post

Particularly notable was Bush's call for others to share the burden. Bush invaded Iraq without the support of many countries, but last night he said the United States cannot succeed in Iraq without greater involvement of the United Nations, the deployment of more international forces and the financial contributions of allies in Europe, the Middle East and Japan.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by rpm371
There was no plan other than invasion.  

how do you know? you work in the Pentagon or something?

just because it ain't on the evening news or cnn it doesn't exisit?

I think it is going closer to the original plan than most realize or can comprehend

[Gadfly]

So far as I know, none of us on this board are/were involved in the planning, and I am pretty sure that none of the "journalists" "covering" the war were either.

Damn shame some of you boys are not smart enough to do it in real life and can only pretend that you are on an obscure BBS for a game.

At least I am smart enough to know that.

[rpm]

Originally posted by Eagler
how do you know? you work in the Pentagon or something?

Did you read any of the original post?

"There is no strategy or mechanism for putting the pieces together," said retired Marine Gen. Anthony C. Zinni, and so, he said, "we're in danger of failing."

[Yeager]

I think the writer is making an error by comparing Iraq to Vietnam on several different points.

Russia and China are not providing aid to the irregular military forces fighting our military in Iraq and can actually be considered somewhat timid allies on the global war against fanatic islamic terror.

Iraq is not divided geographically by rules of engagement that prevent the military from attacking hostile forces in the Northern part of Iraq.

Communism is not a driving force inspiring the hostlity against our forces.

The Iraqi people are not from Vietnam and have a completely different culture and mindset compared to Vietnam.  For that reason alone I believe the outcome will not be the same or similar to what happened in Vietnam.  I am hopeful that in ten years Iraq will be a prospering nation.

However, what does concern me is that this country will once again lose its resolve, lose its collective will to stay the course and instead withdraw prematurely from Iraq.  Thats the biggest threat to this country and a very real threat in my opinion.  In that sense alone one should draw a comparrison to Vietnam.

[Gadfly]

Zinni retired in in March 2000, so he would not be in on the planning, although I am sure they listened to his opinions, as an advisor.

[rpm]

Originally posted by Yeager
I think you are making an error by comparing Iraq to Vietnam on several different points.

Russia and China are not providing aid to the irregular military forces fighting our military in Iraq and can be considered allies on the war against fanatic islamic terror.

True Russia and China are not involved, BUT Syria and Iran (among others) are.

Iraq is not divided geographically by rules of engagement that prevent the military from attacking hostile forces in the Northern part of Iraq.

It is not divided into 2 sections, it is divided into 3.

Communism is not a driving force inspiring the hostlity against our forces.

Communisim is not, but Islamic extreemists are.

The Iraqi people are not from Vietnam and have a completely different culture compared to Vietnam.  For that reason alone I am thinking the outcome will not be the same or similar to what happened in Vietnam.

True, the Shiites, Kurds, and Sunni's have been fighting much longer.

What does concern me is that this country will once again lose its resolve, lose its collective will to stay the course and withdraw prematurely from Iraq.  Thats the biggest threat to this country and a very real threat in my opinion.  In that sense alone you should draw your comparrison to Vietnam.

So we didn't stay in Vietnam long enough?

[Toad]

A Better War: The Unexamined Victories and Final Tragedies of America's Last Years in Vietnam By: Lewis Sorley

Book Description
With exclusive access to highly classified material, an award-winning historian illuminates the Vietnam War. Neglected by scholars and journalists alike, the years of conflict in Vietnam from 1968 to 1975 offer surprises not only about how the war was fought, but about what was achieved.

Drawing on authoritative materials not previously available, including thousands of hours of tape-recorded allied councils of war, award-winning military historian Lewis Sorley has given us what has long been needed-an insightful, factual, and superbly documented history of these important years.

Among his findings is that the war was being won on the ground even as it was being lost at the peace table and in the U.S. Congress. The story is a great human drama of purposeful and principled service in the face of an agonizing succession of lost opportunities, told with uncommon understanding and compassion.

Sorley documents the dramatic differences in conception, conduct, and-at least for a time-results between the early and the later war. Meticulously researched and movingly told, A Better War is sure to stimulate controversy as it sheds brilliant new light on the war in Vietnam.