Author Topic: Bombing Question  (Read 568 times)

Offline Patches

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Bombing Question
« on: September 08, 2003, 07:59:40 PM »
How does one compensate for the wind when flying above it?

If we have a 30 knot wind at 16K, and I am at 25k and have calibrated my bombsight properly, how, or what,  do I compensate for that 30 knot wind at 16k?

Offline Roscoroo

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Bombing Question
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2003, 10:40:37 PM »
there was a post about it somewere long ago ... i seam to remember HT saying it didnt make that much difference ... but im not shure..
Roscoroo ,
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Offline mia389

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Bombing Question
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2003, 10:44:30 PM »
Patches when you calibrate without wind youll notice the ground moved top to bottom only. When you get up in alt and you have wind youll notice the ground going at an angle. when you calibrate it will compensate for wind if you do it right. However if your directly against or with the wind youll have no drift left or right cause the wind is directly with you or against you. Calibrate like normal and your sight will be correct for the wind. If your crosshairs are drifting left or right just stop the drift then calibrate the ground speed and your set.

I hope I didnt confuse you to much here.

Offline scJazz

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Bombing Question
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2003, 07:13:33 AM »
All MA maps have a 30mph wind layer at 16,000' this layer is 1000' high. Therefore from 16K to 17K this 30mph wind is a factor. The wind is out of the North (heading N to S). You can confirm this by grabbing your favorite fighter and flying to 15,900' and getting a feel for your controls. Then put the plane into a climb and go up to 17,100' while trying to maintain an exact heading. The layer becomes extremely obvious, even more notable if your plane is slow as you enter the layer. If you are heading North one of the things you will notice is a sudden jump in your climb rate (caused by 30mph of extra lift). If you are going South you'll see a sudden drop in climb rate. All of that is an explanation and setup for this fact... the layer is only 1000' tall.

Now as for what effect it has on level bombing above 17,000', it depends. The first factor in the wind layer drift is how high above the layer you dropped your bombs. The second is which direction you are heading when you drop.

The first element, altitude, determines the bombs actual velocity when it hits this layer. Bombs dropped at 17,100' (Ex 1) will be shoved a greater distance by the wind layer because they are falling relatively slowly when they hit the wind layer. Likewise a bomb dropped at 25,000' (Ex 2) will be impacted minimally by the layer since by the time it passes through it will be going quite quickly.

Example 1) Gravity 32' p/sec/sec, distance travelled 100' (insert pain in butt math to determine distance travelled by bomb in last second of fall b4 reaching the wind layer) = 64' p/sec = 43mph

Object w/velocity of 43mph travels 1000' in 15.5 seconds. Annoyingly enough the object is still subjected to a 1G acceleration which causes even my mind to be pained at 7:30 AM while starting coffee # 2 so actual time spent in the layer is (really painful math occurs here) roughly 5 seconds. Spending 5 seconds in a 30mph drift causes objects to receive a shove equal to 219'. This 219' is not the actual amount of drift off target but rather is an element in an change of angular movement equation that I'm not even going to attempt but your starting to get the idea aren't you?

Example 2) {god I hate myself for even replying to this post at 7:30 AM} If the bomb is dropped at 25,000' it has a whole 8K to accelerate to a speed of (insert smell of braincells cooking) 480 mph which means that it will spend a very short 1.5 seconds in the layer and while there is subjected to a shove of roughly 75' which again gets stuffed into seriously obnoxious equation relating to angles and changing them.

The second element I mentioned was actual direction of travel as compared to the wind layer. If you are heading North then the above evil math shows that the bomb will fall short of the actual aim point (has to travel against wind at that point). If you are travelling South the bomb will fall long, if you are travelling East the bomb will be off to the right and last if you are going West it will be left.

What in the **** does all this mean? Have you even reached this point in the description? Well first of all it means if you have a pinpoint target that you need to hit exactly grab a P38/P47/{insert favorite JABO here}. Cause you sure as hell have no hope of hitting a pinpoint target while level bombing above the wind layer. Secondly, "Use the Force", not joking, really if you are determined to hit the pinpoint target from a level bomber than you must get the feel of what that layer is doing to you. Third, it is junk like this that is the reason for salvos and the idea of just blasting the crap out of an area rather than a spot. Fourth, I generally allow for 1 fighter hanger worth of drift at around 20,000'. If I'm aiming for a hanger I drop a full hanger width in whatever direction is dictated by Element 2. Yes, this is what you were originally after when you asked and yes I did put this sentence last. Consider it a test. Did you really want to know?

Offline Patches

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Bombing Question
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2003, 09:33:10 AM »
LOL! Yes, thank you scJazz for your very fine explanation. It was exactly what i was looking for in an answer to my question. I will buy you a cup of coffee, anytime for the early morning efforts. :)


Thanks to all who have responded to this post. :)

Offline Easyscor

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Re: Bombing Question
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2003, 12:00:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Patches
How does one compensate for the wind when flying above it?

If we have a 30 knot wind at 16K, and I am at 25k and have calibrated my bombsight properly, how, or what,  do I compensate for that 30 knot wind at 16k?
As mia389 stated, make your approach on either end of a line running north/south and it won't be affected.

The thing you need to worry about in a cross wind is your heading vs your course.  At 25K running 90 degrees to the wind, you need to make your heading about 9 degrees up wind to maintain your correct course.  The most important thing is you must have your course perfectly aligned on the target because any turns will totally botch the drop. Roscoroo is correct, there was a post some time ago with wind drift tables but I think that was before the image posting requirements were changed.  I have seen the original tables on the net... forgotten where.  I'll try to post a table for 30 mph cross wind corrections later.
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Offline Easyscor

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Wind Corrections
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2003, 02:16:23 PM »
Heading corrections needed with a wind speed of 30 mph.

True _________ Degrees off the angle of the wind.
Air Speed_____10__20__30__40__50_ _60__70__80__90
180___________1___3___4___5__ _7___8___8___9__10
200___________1___3___4___5__ _6___7___8___8___9
220___________1___2___3___5__ _5___6___7___7___8
230___________1___2___3___5__ _5___6___7___7___8
240___________1___2___3___4__ _5___6___6___7___7
250___________1___2___3___4__ _5___6___6___7___7
260___________1___2___3___4__ _5___5___6___6___7
270___________1___2___3___4__ _5___5___6___6___6
280___________1___2___3___4__ _4___5___6___6___6
290___________1___2___3___4__ _4___5___5___6___6
Easy in-game again.
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Offline DamnedRen

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Bombing Question
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2003, 05:17:31 AM »
Easy, Can you explain the wind chart? Thanks.

Bear with me cause its 4:30 am in the morning but here's the kind of wind charts Im used to:

DEGREES ANGLE BETWEEN WIND DIRECTION AND HEADING (LEFT OR RIGHT)
      10    20    30    40    50    60    70    80
--------------------------------------------------
W  5¦  1     2     3     3     4     4     5     5
I 10¦  2     3     5     6     8     9     9    10
N 15¦  3     5     8    10    11    13    14    15
D 20¦  3     7    10    13    15    17    19    20
  25¦  4     9    13    16    19    22    23    25
S 30¦  5    10    15    19    23    26    28    29
P 35¦  6    12    18    22    27    30    33    34
E 40¦  7    14    20    26    31    35    38    39
E 45¦  8    15    23    29    34    39    42    44
D 50¦  9    17    25    32    38    43    47    49
  55¦  9    19    28    35    42    48    52    54
  60¦ 10    21    30    39    46    52    56    54
  65¦ 11    22    33    42    50    56    61    64
  70¦ 12    24    35    45    54    61    66    69
        
So, what does all this mean? Let's try an example:   
Let's use 30 mph as our wind speed
The wind is from the west (270) degrees.
Our flight heading (line of flight) is due north (360 degrees).
In order to fly a heading that will maintain our original line over the target you need to crab (turn your nose) into the wind 29 degrees.

Ok, in order to keep it simple just picture this.
The wind is gonna hit your plane from directly to your left. It will push you plane along its line of flight to the right of its original ground track. Your ground track is the actual line over the ground your plane needs to move to get from point A to point B or...the line of travel you need to take to ensure your bombs hit along the line you've set as your target.

With the above listed heading you would have to point your nose left 29 degrees. This would make your heading 360-29 = 331 degrees to maintain your ground track over the target.   

The difference between 80 and 90 degrees is so small that you should consider them the same.

Ren

Offline DamnedRen

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Bombing Question
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2003, 05:19:02 AM »
Ouch! so trying to type the chart in here doesn't work!:mad:


Ren:D

Offline Easyscor

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Bombing Question
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2003, 10:47:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DamnedRen
Easy, Can you explain the wind chart? Thanks.
I built an Excel spreadsheet that calculated individual headings in compass degrees but it was a pain to use.  I find it much easier and faster to use only the corrections.  Your table would only be valid for a single air speed if I read it correctly and a very low air speed at that yet the speed of each bomber/bomb run in Aces High will vary slightly.

Our wind is blowing to the north at 30 mph.  If my intended course is 270 degrees, and my true air speed is 200, like your table, all I really care about is how much I need to turn into the wind to compensate for the wind drift.  In our case of flying a course of 270 degrees with a wind from left to right at 30 miles per hour, your course is at 90 degrees to the wind so look under the 90 (degrees) and you find the number 9 in the row opposite 200 mph. You would adjust your heading up wind by 9 degrees to 261.  If you wanted to fly a course of either 210 or 330 degrees, you would be angled 30 degrees with or against the wind and using 200 mph again, your course correction is 4 degrees into the wind to maintain the course, 206 or 326 degrees.  Practice with the same bomber, fuel load and altitude each time until you start getting it.

These course corrections are great if all you want to do is fly from point A to point B and they will get you started in learning the "feel" for correcting for the wind drift in you bomb runs but no table can do it all for you.  A quick rule of thumb is 1 degree correction for each 10 degrees angle on the wind but as you can see by the table, this will vary with true air speed.

Edit: Added the word true at air speed.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2003, 10:50:42 AM by Easyscor »
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Offline Shiva

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Bombing Question
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2003, 02:16:13 PM »
Stripped from my posting in another thread:

Quick, no-math figuring of the course adjustment to compensate for the wind.

First step: Figure the angle between your course and the wind. For example, if you were flying a course of 135, the angle would be 45° from astern. Then look up the wind angle and the wind speed on the chart below:



The number above the diagonal slash is the crosswind component; the number below the slash is the direct component. If the wind is behind you, add the direct component to your TAS (true airspeed); if it is in front of you, subtract the direct component.

Second step: Look up the course correction on the chart below, using your adjusted TAS and the crosswind component. The number is the number of degrees you need to turn into the wind to cancel the sideways drift from the wind.



If you have correctly compensated fro the wind drift in your course, not only will you fly a 'straight' course over the ground, but it will eliminate any sideways drift in your bombsight that you have to calibrate for. Of course, if you turn to line up on your target, all this goes out the window, and you have to do it the hard way in the sight calibration, so you might as well learn to do drift compensation in sight calibration.

Offline Virage

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Bombing Question
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2003, 03:43:30 PM »
You don't a crosswind chart.

set up 1 sector out.  get speed constant with doors open.

line up with target by zooming forward as far as you can see.

you can use forward gunner position or fly it like normal but do it gently so as not to alter speed.

calibrate for at least 20 seconds by looking far forward, zooming in and holding 1 spot.

you will hit your target if you don't have to readjust too far.  

use a large footprint of bombs until you get it down.
JG11

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