Loving America

[Yeager]

The blind loyalty to trust the government in time of war disappeared during the Vietnam war, with good reason.
====
vietnam war was lost with a tremendous cost in human life.  I have always considered the anti war movement in this country paramount to providing aid and comfort to the enemy.  

I would have preferred a successful conclusion.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by lazs2
liberals love America like a baby loves a tit.
lazs

hehe, game over, lazs wins

[Charon]

vietnam war was lost with a tremendous cost in human life. I have always considered the anti war movement in this country paramount to providing aid and comfort to the enemy.

I would have preferred a successful conclusion.

I personally would have preferred a political solution in the late 1940s or 1950s that would have prevented that tragic war entirely. Whether it was ever "winnable" is questionable. The people in the South didn't seem to care all that much, and the people in the North would have looked upon US troops as occupiers and not liberators, so what exactly would a victory have meant? Tenuous control of the cities and firebases in the North as well as the South, with occupation forces still getting killed today by the handful?

What would a win have accomplished in Vietnam? Democracy? Would you (or any American) accept a democracy under the leadership of a corrupt tyrant like Ngo Dihn Diem or Nguyen Van Thieu? Perhaps if we had offered the Vietnamese people an option other than communism or a puppet dictatorship there might have been some serious interest in actually achieving a victory by the people of country itself, not to mention at home. All the war protestors did was point out the obvious.

Charon

[Rude]

Originally posted by banana
You know, I'm surprised that so many people don't understand the rationale for questioning the current administration closely about our policy in Iraq.

Do you not remember how President Johnson lied to the American public about Vietnam? Not to mention the mismanagement of that war.

Small wonder that the American people and the media are keeping a close watch on what is happening in Iraq now.

The blind loyalty to trust the government in time of war disappeared during the Vietnam war, with good reason. You can wax nostalgically about the unquestioning loyalty displayed by the American public during World War II, but those days are over, and the American public is much more sophisticated nowadays.

Bad things can happen in this country when we don't continue to question and keep an eye on the government. Does the McCarthy witch hunt or the deportation of Japanese Americans to internment camps ring a bell?

People who give their unstinting loyalty to the Bush administration on this board think they're doing the right thing by being patriotic. But think carefully about that. Is it the person who questions authority who cares more about this country, or the person who places blind trust into the administration?

All of the talk regarding Bush and the war has nothing to do with accountability but rather the quest to return to power by the Democrats.

You make an assumption that those who support Bush make no effort to hold him accountable...you're mistaken. He will be held accountable. His perspective is much more informed than any of ours, yet you guys pretend to have all the answers.

It's laughable to to think that such an undertaking would have concluded or made significant progress in four months....most of this anti-Bush speak is simply motivated by the severe dislike of Bush by Democrats and the adjoining desire to get back the power they lost.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Rude
All of the talk regarding Bush and the war has nothing to do with accountability but rather the quest to return to power by the Democrats.

You make an assumption that those who support Bush make no effort to hold him accountable...you're mistaken. He will be held accountable. His perspective is much more informed than any of ours, yet you guys pretend to have all the answers.

It's laughable to to think that such an undertaking would have concluded or made significant progress in four months....most of this anti-Bush speak is simply motivated by the severe dislike of Bush by Democrats and the adjoining desire to get back the power they lost.

[size=8]SHACK![/SIZE]

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by lazs2
liberals love America like a baby loves a tit.
lazs

Oh please.

"Conservatives love America like a 4 year old.."

"Nuh uh! Liberals love America like a baby...."

"Oh yeah! Well conservatives are like a fetus...."

" No sir!! Liberals are like a Zygote!! ..."

" Conservatives are like a bunch of wriggling Sperm!!!!"

" I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU TO SAY THAT TO MY FACE!!"

" YOUR MOMMA!!""

 

[AKIron]

it's over, go home

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
[size=8]SHACK![/SIZE]

"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

[Wanker]

Originally posted by Rude
All of the talk regarding Bush and the war has nothing to do with accountability but rather the quest to return to power by the Democrats.

You make an assumption that those who support Bush make no effort to hold him accountable...you're mistaken. He will be held accountable. His perspective is much more informed than any of ours, yet you guys pretend to have all the answers.

It's laughable to to think that such an undertaking would have concluded or made significant progress in four months....most of this anti-Bush speak is simply motivated by the severe dislike of Bush by Democrats and the adjoining desire to get back the power they lost.

That's a cop out, Rude.

By insiuating an alterior motive, you could say that about anyone who criticizes anything.

Instead of doing that, why not argue against my assertion that to question and criticize the government is the ultimate in patriotism, and is in fact the basis of the freedoms that make America the greatest nation in the world.

Instead, you went for the standard republiclown line, thereby giving Ripsnort, who is often at a loss for real intellectual thought, a chance to throw in his tiresome one word zingers.

*sigh*

I really enjoy debating with you, Rude. But can we agree to debate the real issue, and leave off the campaign sound bites? Please?

BTW, in case you've forgotten, I supported this administration in going to war with Iraq. Furthermore, I support the spending of billions to rebuild Iraq.

[AKIron]

Instead, you went for the standard republiclown line, thereby giving Ripsnort, who is often at a loss for real intellectual thought, a chance to throw in his tiresome one word zingers.

banana, was the irony intentional?

[Frodo]

You make an assumption that those who support Bush make no effort to hold him accountable...you're mistaken. He will be held accountable.
[/B]

This is funny.

....most of this anti-Bush speak is simply motivated by the severe dislike of Bush by Democrats and the adjoining desire to get back the power they lost."
[/B]

You know the same can be said for the Republicans.They will do anything,and believe anything they are told, just to see that a Democrat does not get in office. I fail to see how either party is helping the country.It is really too bad that when you go to vote,it comes down to the lesser of two evils.


The time honored tactic of attacking someone instead of discussing an issue,really makes people look stupid.It tends to sway people to the other side of the fence.People who think anyway, and don't just take their particular party line as gospel.


What if we made the governing bodies evenly split.No one would have a majority, and would have to reach a compromise on the issues, that was fair to most and not just one group or interest.
Senate,House ect.  1/3 to Independents,Democrats,Republicans.No this makes too much sense.

Frodo

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Frodo
What if we made the governing bodies evenly split.No one would have a majority, and would have to reach a compromise on the issues, that was fair to most and not just one group or interest.
Senate,House ect.  1/3 to Independents,Democrats,Republicans.No this makes too much sense.

Frodo

Spoken like a member of a party that's losing power maybe for keeps. You're not a democrat are ya?

[Frodo]

The time honored tactic of attacking someone instead of discussing an issue,really makes people look stupid.It tends to sway people to the other side of the fence.People who think anyway, and don't just take their particular party line as gospel.

I guess you missed this part above.


I guess I would classify myself as independent, since it seems important to you.Hope that doesn't dissapoint you.

Frodo

[AKIron]

Ah, hoping to gain some authority under the guise of fairness eh?  Can't blame ya for tryin'.

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Oh please.

"Conservatives love America like a 4 year old.."

"Nuh uh! Liberals love America like a baby...."

"Oh yeah! Well conservatives are like a fetus...."

" No sir!! Liberals are like a Zygote!! ..."

" Conservatives are like a bunch of wriggling Sperm!!!!"

" I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU TO SAY THAT TO MY FACE!!"

" YOUR MOMMA!!""

 

So the baby/tit reference went completely over your head?

In any event, in your attempt to plant the flag of Liberals on the moral high ground, dont confuse support for Bush with blind faith in the administration.

I cant speak for everyone, but in my case, I support Bush because I agree with most of what hes doing, not because Im 'patriotic.'  Im plenty patriotic and disagreed with alot of the things Clinton did.  

From the viewpoint of the average citizen who actually pays attention to issues and policy, partisanship has very little to do with it - there is no blind faith in one party or the other, one ideology or the other, but rather agreement or disagreement on the decisions made by the President, Congress, and the Supreme Court.

Had Clinton done everything Bush did and Bush everything Clinton did, my support would be reversed.