Author Topic: Ethics question  (Read 1839 times)

Offline Tilt

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
      • FullTilt
Re: Ethics question
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2003, 06:06:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort

Question:
Is bringing up facts and data racist today?


So having started a debate about guns duscussion drifted into debating racism ?

Whether you are racist or not should have no bearing on the debate.

Its a bit like shrub declaring any one who disagrees with him as "unamerican"......it side steps the debate.

Nothing was proved............

I suppose it would be very liberal to point out that the demographic analysis used whilst splitting all sorts of stuff such as race , gender, age, plus doing some discussions elsewhere on morality and the effects of the media at no point correlates income or standard of living , or even peer groups and other local social influences.
Ludere Vincere

Offline Mark Luper

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1626
Ethics question
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2003, 06:12:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Sometimes size DOES conquer common sense. ;)


That mean you have a big head on your shoulders?






:D
MarkAT

Keep the shiny side up!

Offline Erlkonig

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
Ethics question
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2003, 06:53:02 PM »
Why don't you ask Jesus?

Offline Leslie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2212
Ethics question
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2003, 06:54:46 PM »
Rip, what were the circumstances leading up to the discussion about firearms?  Was this at work, or in a social setting?

Probably the only place you can intellectually defend your position would be in a class, where open debate and discussion is kept somewhat under control by the group leader, instructor, moderator, etc...

Otherwise, just say something like, " I hear what you're saying, and firearms aren't for everybody."  Always keep it clean and courteous, especially when dealing with women...and be pleasant or you'll be sorry.

Doesn't mean you agree.  It's just a non offensive way of acknowledging her/his opinion without getting in their face.  Facts should only be used in academic discussions, where they are "ammunition" for your argument.

For social situations, if it gets down to it, I guess you could always lighten things up by saying, "Well, I'm a redneck...was born in the South, killed my first deer at the age of 6.  It's the way I was brought up."   Then you've got to look in your bag of tricks, do something funny like stand on your head, pull the sheet out from under the tableware, tump over your beer, etc...anything to change the subject .:D

Good luck!!!  It's all important to get her to laugh.  How did you handle it Rip?



Les:)

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
Ethics question
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2003, 07:09:07 PM »
Tilt, as usual, you post eloquently and your advise is always absorbed! Thank you.

Leslie, its a co-worker and she and I get along very good. Except when I start presenting facts with current events that come up in small talk.

The discussion came up when she approached me about how good "Bowling for Columbine" was...she said they compared a city in Canada to that of Detroit, or something along that nature...how violence was a non-issue "just across the border!"  I said "When you compare Detroit to any city for violence, the facts will be skewed because of the fact that Detroit has a higher than avg. population of blacks, and young blacks, because of the cultural surroundings, have a higher chance of being involved in firearms or crime in an urban environment". (Shes a city girl, born and raised in a tight-knit philippine community) Thats how it started.  

She immediately turned back around to end the conversation by saying "oooooh, don't...don't!  Don't start with that!"  I explained that I was just going by facts and data and told her she knows me better than that.  The discussion ended. I felt compelled to show the data, but I'm sure she would have even been worse. So, we went back to work, and life goes on. (Shrugs).  

We've had spirited conversations on current events before in the past, and usually make small concessions to ones feelings on such subjects, but this one caught me off guard and I began questioning myself if indeed this was a racist mentality.  I don't feel like it is, but she made me feel like bringing up those facts that I was indeed racist.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2003, 07:12:24 PM by Ripsnort »

Offline FUNKED1

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6866
      • http://soldatensender.blogspot.com/
Ethics question
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2003, 07:17:25 PM »
Your co-worker is stupid.

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
Ethics question
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2003, 07:21:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Your co-worker is stupid.


heh, well, not to sound like I'm defending her, but she has a 4 year degree in Engineering, thats 2 more years than me. But yeah, thats how me and about 8 others feel about her (in a 10 person group!)

Offline capt. apathy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4240
      • http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/moviewavs.cgi?Bandits=danger.wav
Ethics question
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2003, 07:28:25 PM »
Quote
4 year degree in Engineering


stupid has NOTHING to do with education.

(see sig below)

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
Ethics question
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2003, 07:41:30 PM »
Ripsnort, if you weren't racist, you would still be with the black chic.
 :)
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
Ethics question
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2003, 07:56:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Ripsnort, if you weren't racist, you would still be with the black chic.
 :)


:)

Offline Leslie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2212
Ethics question
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2003, 08:01:13 PM »
Being called a racist is very hurtful.  Imo, you can only determine whether someone is a racist by observing their actions, i.e. intentionally demeaning someone because of their race and that alone.  Racism is serious business.

It would be to me like someone calling me lazy, or I didn't "work" because I'm an artist, work at home and choose my own hours.  I freelance.


Back to the subject.  I had a boss one time, Bill Knapp, who was a tail gunner in a B-24 during World War II.   He was about 60 years old when I worked in the appliance dept. at a wholesale electronics and appliance store (my first Summer job.)  He was a character, let me tell you.  He showed me a picture of him and his bomber crew, and I wish I had that picture today...man.  He was a reformed alcoholic, and didn't take a drink at all.  I remember one time he brought in a little weed to load in with his pipe tobacco, and smoked it sitting at his desk in the office.  So this was a cool guy for an old man.

He told a lot of stories about his experiences...didn't talk about the war at all, but my Dad told me he was shot down twice during the Ploesti oil field raids.

Anyway, one time he was very upset in the office.  Evidently someone had called him a racist...don't know who, (had happened earlier at some time, and don't know when.)  But he was po'd and resented it extremely.

He was not a racist.  And I don't think you are either Rip.  I don't blame you for being upset and thinking about it.  People don't think about what they say, and are thoughtless jerks.

If it was me, I think I would have said something to the boss about it, if I thought t would interfere with my job performance, and if I felt the co-worker was trying to be malicious.  Probably not the case, but sounds like things may never be the same, possible loss of a friend.

Sorry this happened to you.  Lesson learned the hard way.  I'd tend to avoid this person, because she seems confrontational.




Les

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
Ethics question
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2003, 08:05:58 PM »
Thks for the post Leslie. I guess I did come for some "support" (less the sappy group hugs).  I did document the entire conversation in a word file, but after I thought "My God, we've come to the point of feeling as though one needs to document a conversation for protection from *possilbe* (and I mean very slight possible) consequences in the future because the conversation was on the job. :(

Offline Leslie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2212
Ethics question
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2003, 08:13:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
heh, well, not to sound like I'm defending her, but she has a 4 year degree in Engineering, thats 2 more years than me. But yeah, thats how me and about 8 others feel about her (in a 10 person group!)



You have nothing to worry about Rip.  She'll be promoted to a higher position, and probably move on to another office.  At least, by the sound of things, that would be the best thing that could happen.



Les

Offline Mark Luper

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1626
Ethics question
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2003, 08:24:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
"My God, we've come to the point of feeling as though one needs to document a conversation for protection from *possilbe* (and I mean very slight possible) consequences in the future because the conversation was on the job. :(


I work at Lockheed Martin, I know from whence you speak Rip. Though I havn't had the same type of experience, I find myself really being carefull about what I say and to whom. If I didn't enjoy my job so much and the people I work with I can see how it could really put a kink in interpersonal relationships at work.

When I first met you at the first AH con my impression of you did not include a racist, I did think you were a little weird though... :D :D
MarkAT

Keep the shiny side up!

Offline midnight Target

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15114
Ethics question
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2003, 08:25:23 PM »
Quote
"When you compare Detroit to any city for violence, the facts will be skewed because of the fact that Detroit has a higher than avg. population of blacks, and young blacks, because of the cultural surroundings, have a higher chance of being involved in firearms or crime in an urban environment".


I believe you aren't a racist Rip, hiowever this statement seems very racist. You cannot necessarily attribute the high crime rate to race. It may be due to economics, unemployment rate, single parent families etc. Your figures are correct, your conclusions are suspect.