Author Topic: Ethics question  (Read 1874 times)

Offline midnight Target

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Ethics question
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2003, 12:17:00 PM »
yikes... even when i try to be fair I'm accused of being unfair... ahh well.

Lets disect this then...

Rip said
Quote
I said "When you compare Detroit to any city for violence, the facts will be skewed because of the fact that Detroit has a higher than avg. population of blacks, .


Now I know he threw in the "culture" thing there also, but read that quote again. Anything that follows will seam like an excuse for the opening. The Black population was the 1st thing he mentioned.

Now I reiterate  - I don't thing Rip is a racist. But even well meaning folks can say racist hurtful things.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2003, 03:07:15 PM »
midnight Target: I merely pointed out the difference between the attribution of a statistic to a RACE and to a CIRCUMSTANCE.

 But crime level is as much a circumstance as divorce rate, illegitimacy and unemployment.

 Rip says that blacks are more prone to crime.

 You say that crime is just the concequence of the fact that blacks are more prone to illegitimacy and unemployment.

 How come your statement any less racist?


Holding the belief that one race is inherently more intelligent than another is racist too. Just so you know.

 As Gunthr explained, as long as I base my opinion on scientific studies, I may be mistaken but not necessarily racist.
 I would be racist if I preffered this situation.

 miko

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2003, 03:15:36 PM »
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You say that crime is just the concequence of the fact that blacks are more prone to illegitimacy and unemployment.


You assume again... gotta quit doing that.

I never said they were more prone to it. Being prone to something implies that it is inherent to the people in question. Poverty isn't inherent to anyone. It is thrust upon them.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2003, 03:35:42 PM »
midnight Target: I never said they were more prone to it. Being prone to something implies that it is inherent to the people in question. Poverty isn't inherent to anyone. It is thrust upon them.

 OK, a poverty can be thrust upon some race by outsiders who are racists. I would certainly agree that it is true and was actually the case for the most of US history regarding blacks and indians and others.

 But how do you thrust illegitimacy and destruction of marriage on someone?

 People living in much worse conditions now and in the past times still kept to family life, cared for their children, etc.

 BTW, having one parent in a family means one or zero incomes while having two adults means having two or one income. Don't you think it has any bearing on the poverty?

 miko

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2003, 03:37:04 PM »
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But how do you thrust illegitimacy and destruction of marriage on someone?


Through poverty.

Offline Gadfly

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« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2003, 03:50:48 PM »
MT, if one person rose above poverty, does that not mean that anyone can?  Re: it being imposed.

Offline mietla

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« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2003, 04:00:49 PM »
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Through poverty.


You are reaching MT.

Offline Virage

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« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2003, 05:33:10 PM »
'cultural difference' implies racism imo.

Socio-economic derieved from a long history of racism would be more accurate.

You can't state that it is Black Culture for black men to kill each other without expecting to be called a racist.
JG11

Vater

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2003, 05:36:10 PM »
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Originally posted by Gadfly
MT, if one person rose above poverty, does that not mean that anyone can?  Re: it being imposed.


Given identical skills, drive, social pressures, opportunities and circumstances....... maybe.

blue1

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« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2003, 06:28:22 PM »
You know the saying: There's lies, damm lies and statistics.

That's the problem Ripsnort, you can use statistics to bolster any argument.

More Blacks are killed by guns could mean any number of things. Whites could be killing them, easy availability of guns could be the reason, Blacks are naturally more violent, more Blacks are poor and poverty leads to crime etc etc.

Let's see if I can read both your minds, she is against guns and the facts are there, that the easier availability of guns in the US leads to more gun deaths. That is a 'fact' you don't like and disagree with.  You are in favour of guns and point out the 'fact' that most gun deaths are among Black males. The implication, whether you believe it or not, is that Black males are more prone to gun violence. Thus guns are not the problem but Black males are.  
In fact it's more likely that males between a certain age living in reduced circumstances and in a high crime environment may be more prone to gun violence no matter what the colour. Now it is quite possible that in fact it is true to say that Black males are more prone to gun violence than white males. But because of historical racism this isn't a popular option.  

To sum up both your arguments, whether real or implied. She thinks the American gun culture leads to excessive gun deaths. You believe it's a Black culture thing. You may both be right but the nature of debate is that we do not agree with each other all the time and we all have our own biases and prejudices.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #70 on: September 15, 2003, 08:48:05 AM »
blue... it is not whites that are killing blacks it is blacks who are killing blacks.   the reasons are for others to figure out.  A lot has to do with what race is at what end of the drug dealing food chain tho.

MT... serial killers... are the DC killers "serial killers" ?   they are a pair... most serial killers are singles but.... most importantly...  the reason they were killing... it was money.   They were simply trying a hostage scam on a different scale and with a twist.   I don't think they really fall under the tittle of "serial killer".
lazs

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #71 on: September 15, 2003, 08:57:38 AM »
Some interesting arguements up above.