Aircraft ruggedness not a factor

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Baddawg:
The other day I saw a  player complain that his G10 was outclimbed by a P-47.
Well I know it cant, you know the Jug cant,out climb a G10.
So how did this anomaly happen?
Simple the pilot of the G10 was in error of energy states .

Ummh... P-47 is somewhat amazing climber right upwards in AH.

Once flew Yak9, were alot higher than two P47s which were fightning on one enemy and they killed it just before I wen't in.
Little further were P-51 coming and faster than P-47, at least so it did look in my gunsight.
(unless slower moving planes have suddenly become faster planes in some twilight zone thing)

I wen't in, compressed a bit and pulled up in time when I saw that no use to dive more or I'll lose altitude and E.
So I pulled up after gentle dive and very much speed after many thousand feets of dive, all enemies did the same too.
2 P47s and 1 P51 pulled up (with P51 having most speed of that group), one P47 spinned quite soon, then there were P51 and P47 left, P47 begun firing with at least 4 .50 calibers from range of 1.3k and pinged me couple times, but P51 didnt fire and he was same range.

Next thing that I noticed was that distance to P51 was growing while P47 was slowly distancing from me, and P51 finally spinned out as P47 still kept coming at me, even though he had fired at me while climbing!!
As he stalled and spinned, I was already as slow in my Yak as I ever have been.


I find this quite odd.. (if it was 8 .50 calibers firing, he would had spun alot earlier than P51, or .50 calibers doesnt have recoil!)

[eddiek]

Baddawg, what you say is in part correct.  Sometimes we over- or underestimate our opponents' energy, and get ourselves into trouble.
My example, however, was one where myself and the Spit were co-alt, and, since I was in the Jug with it's higher speed, I "should" have been E-advantaged.  However, the Spit went into a (from my view) pretty aggressive climb and reversal, while I entered a rather shallow climb to keep the speed up as trying to dogfight a Spit in a Jug is utter suicide IMHO.  I thought I had done pretty well as the Spit was still co-alt with me when leveled out.  He did not lose any alt to regain speed like you would assume he would in a high yoyo maneuver, yet he instantly began closing on me.  
Needless to say, I was stunned.
The dive to the deck puzzled me further, as I was bigtime into the compression area speedwise, yet he apparently was not, he closed in the dive, then was able to pull inside me and get the kill.
I am trying to learn from my mistakes, but everytime I watch the film, I come up empty on what I did wrong.
Guess I will watch it more and just break it down and try harder to figure out how it happened.

------------------
   
<===<The ASSASSINS>===>
          assassins@aceshighcs.com          

[This message has been edited by eddiek (edited 08-12-2000).]

[funked]

   

[StSanta]

I need to quote myself in order to defend myself:
 

I learned a lesson there  (Image removed from quote.)

Now that I know a Spit can do a very hard pullup from quite low speed and still stay with me for long enough to get more than a few shots my way, I'll fight them a little differently.

Spits are, in 1v1, not a real threat to a properly flown G10. The biggest threat comes from unexpected head ons. Either drag the Spit up high, and you'll have the edge, spiral climb his monkey butt, or force him low and slow, and then kill him.

stsanta has 20 kills and has been killed 3 times in the Bf 109G-10 against the Spitfire Mk IX.

They WILL kill you, if you do not watch them carefully. They WILL kill you if you are low and slow. And they will kill you in a HO if you're in a G10.

They're dangerous, but manageable when flown by the statistical mean average Spitfire pilot. They're downright deadly in the hands of good and great sticks.

Just as most other aircraft  .


 


------------------
StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[pzvg]

Now if you guys could kindly teach a poor dweeb that magical "I did a climb for 3 seconds,rolled and pulled the nose 10 degrees then climbed for 4 seconds" move that I see spits and others perform (205 comes to mind) I know that an aircraft does not retain E in the vertical, discounting the F16, so where do they get the E to climb,pull the nose over 10 degrees to follow a con, (while rolling) then climb some more? Is there a special E bank?
and is it a perk? (do you pay more than $30 US ta get it, and do they have free checking )
Seriously, no flames please, I have seen way too much weird stuff in here to get bent about it.
I'd like ta see HTC model different hardness areas in all A/C (yep I know that's a code nightmare) imagine a pony dives at you, putting a short burst into your left wing,say 6-7 rounds, now rounds 1-5 hit plain old wing surface,passing thru with no real effect, but 6-7 hit the gear well, round 6 punches thru the tire,leaving it just shredded rubber,while #7 caroms off the strut,comes outta the wing thru the side of the fuselage,finally expending itself in your
left testicle. Now that's damage modelling
(Note; HTC this is purely tongue in cheek,I do not disparage the damage model you have in any way as it is well suited to the sim,this was merely intended to show the propellerheads why they need to lighten up)
Cheers!

------------------
pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Yes Spit is amazing and Niki's too.
I dived to the deck with a spit in my 500y, when I reached the edeck at 550 KIAS the spit was still here. I did some large scisors by just banking the plane and slight pull on stick not to bleed E by pulling Gs.
The Spit was still there hoosing me.

After 15 NM of deck runing, the Spit was still in my 6... uh oh... I thought I was faster than those guys hehehe I was wrong... achtung Spitfires! <not a whine, a mission report>

[Hangtime]

Spits are, by nature and design... damn dangerous. I NEVER mess with a spit unless my E bag is a whole lot fuller... and I'm sittin above him.

Diving away from co-alt big spits is a no-go.. not if his E bag is full.

Turning with any spit is a no-go.. not unless he's above 20k.

Grabbin on a co-alt spit is futile, unless you have a G10 and a sack of e to start with.

Killin spits is easy.. just drop on 'em from on top; DIRECTLY on top, kick out yer flaps, watch him twist into a low split S and lead him. Don't miss tho.  

I don't think spits are over-modeled.. I think spit pilots are.  

Hang

[Spatula]

Spits are good players of 'their game', the answer is dont play 'their game'.
I only go vert after a bounce on a spit if i know he just turned hard(ish) and i going at least 380 IAS or so. Normally make 2-4 passes then bug out if he aint dead by then. Same for Nikis. They aint the fastest planes, but they accelerate real well.

Tour 7 (so far)
spatula has 7 kills and has been killed 1 time in the P-51D against the Spitfire Mk IX.
This kill was Mitsu <S>
spatula has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the N1K2.


Tour 6
spatula has 12 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the Spitfire Mk IX.
spatula has 13 kills and has been killed 2 times in the P-51D against the N1K2.

I dont think spits or nikis are overmodelled.
There *are* some *exceptional* spit pilots tho. Dont make the mistake of thinking all spits are flown by newbies.

Splat.
 

[Extreme]

Just regarding escaping SPITs and the like in the P47...What I do is dive to about 350-400mph then roll right then left and extend.  This leaves them gasping everytime.

If it's a 109, I'll do the same but I'll pull back and take them on.

My 2c...

Ex.