.50 cal sniper rifles

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, but you've really just lately resumed your nearly continual criticism here. I simply figured that WW2OL has at last lost its mystical hold on you.

Too bad; I missed you like a toothache.

Get your facts straight and quit that useless crap throwing on me, it ain't doing any good, now is it?

This year, the 2003, I've posted in exactly 8 threads on Aces High General Discussion and posted in each thread just once with the exception of this thread, which of most cannot be said to be 'continual criticism'.

At the moment you're the one messing around here - you started flaming other people with baseless accusations.
This shouldn't have gone this way...  so you better take a very good look at the mirror before throwing such accusations, hypocrit.

On my part, I'll end this arguing here, since theres no argument other than you're being silly.

[gunnss]

Sigh...
I was a M2 instructor in the Army..... and I could punch a BRDM from 1200 yards in a moving ring mount on a Duce n'a half, I was poping "Goats" from the doormount on a CH47 in Iraq at well over 800 meters, the weapon really can hit out that far, and it's destructive power is acually understated, as we were getting 6 to 8 inches of penatration at those ranges.   Now if ya want real power get some Sabot sub caliber Depleated Uranium rounds.....18 inches of penatration at much greater ranges.
Been there done that got the scars.....

Gunns

[lazs2]

wonder how I get any assists at all with these wonder weapons.   I get about 40% sists using 50's..  some cannon guy comes allong and puts a couple rounds in the plane i finaly have shot up and he gets the kill...  maybe they gave me sub standard .50 ammo?
lazs

[Mini D]

No lazs... it must be because you're only taking 1.2k shots.  If you were firing at a more realisitic <300yard range you'd see just how uber those .50s were.  That's your problem.  It's not that people are clinging to age old rumors and misconceptions... it's just you.

MiniD

[Mini D]

fishu... it's time to stop pretending to be persecuted whenever you come over to the other side of the wall to get some digs in.  Now run back to your protected sanctuary.  If you don't want to be shot at... you really shouldn't leave it.

MiniD

[loser]

I agree with those that say it is mostly about lag.  I remember being in a hurri IIC and spraying out at a guy who was D 1.2. I was just doing it for S & Gs and to get the guy to turn back into me.  To my amazment a hit sprite flashed on the guy's wing and he went down like a sack of beans.

I commented to the pilot whom i shot down that I lucked out with the golden BB.  He was kind of upset and lamented that i had hit him at D 700 and that shouldnt have happened.  So my D 1.2K was D 700 on his end.  

I now this is pretty much the inverse of what was pointed out above, but it does show that lag makes a big difference on what you and your weapons see and what your opponent sees.

[DoctorYO]

The hitting power of the 50 is pretty good..  Ive used it also and it punches thru steel and concrete like nothing...

The problem with AH is that the bullet dispersion should also increase with range..

Being 1 inch off target at 300m is like 1-2 feet or more at 1000m thats not including g force windage etc...  

And this observation is from real world experience from the .50

AH just doesn't model bullet/cannon round dispersion like real life handles it..

Still it attempts to model it so hats off for their effort...

An increase of dispersion with range will fix this sniper cheese..

(im not saying you cant hit a target at that range with 6 .50's you can.. just not catastrophic dammage with a 1-2 bursts... like we have currently...)


2 cents


DoctorYo

[Rude]

Originally posted by Fishu
It is known that .50 cal posesses such powers it will blow up the plane after few hits up to 1500 yards...

hmm.. maybe it's just lil overpowered in AH :>

Such a dishonest statement

[Rude]

Originally posted by Pooh21
Whats funny is Spits will tear you up with their 2 50cal. out to 1.3k or so. (not even mentioning the hizooka.) But the P-51Bs 4x50cal are about useless at d 300 IMO long tracking shots only thing that work with them.

What game are you playing? Let's see the film!

[Pirate BK]

FOUL! I cry foul. I too want this uber 50 cal. load out. Now & then I fly a pony and have to say assist mobile could be nick name. Seems the same with all planes sporting 50 cals. Yes I open up at d_300 and blow them all to hell. BUT many times I light um up at D300 (even a second time) only to see the plane still up & flying. Smoking but alive. & then I get assist. Not a complaint, rather observation. Still fly them ( P51, FM2, F6f .. et al.) Still get kills, but to say they are uber ... I think not.

Pirate

[MJHerman]

Originally posted by gunnss
Sigh...
I was a M2 instructor in the Army..... and I could punch a BRDM from 1200 yards in a moving ring mount on a Duce n'a half, I was poping "Goats" from the doormount on a CH47 in Iraq at well over 800 meters, the weapon really can hit out that far, and it's destructive power is acually understated, as we were getting 6 to 8 inches of penatration at those ranges.   Now if ya want real power get some Sabot sub caliber Depleated Uranium rounds.....18 inches of penatration at much greater ranges.
Been there done that got the scars.....

Gunns

I second this assessment, although no actual combat experience on my part (limited to range practice from a tripod mount).  Was hitting T72 size targets in the turret at 1100 metres plus.  Good way to "reach out and touch someone".

Anyone know the effective range of a Barrett .50 sniper rifle?  I thought that snipers with a Barrett can get out to 2000 metres plus....

[Fishu]

Talking of the .50 caliber....

There was in fact a few different .50 caliber versions in WWII.
It wasn't the same M2 .50 caliber MG throughout the war.

Theres also couple significant differences between ground and aircraft versions - rate of fire and the barrel lenght
Aircraft mounted guns  ad the version with higher rate of fire and shorter barrel.
IIRC aircraft M2's had 3 or 4 different main versions through the war, going from early to late war versions.
IIRC again... the main differences were mainly in RoF and some adjustments of the barrel lenght.
Ammunition developtment went the same way.
.50 caliber ball type ammunition was widely used, especially early in the war.

Therefore I find comparisons to todays .50 calibers unlikely to give correct picture of the WWII .50 calibers.


Then theres other thing with the effectiveness...  the penetration.
From a long range I'd say the rear armour is sufficient to stop those .50s which finds their way at the planes fuselage and therefore saves the possible fuselage tank from penetration and most importantly the pilot.
At long range I find the 20mm HE shell much more lethal than the .50 caliber.

From here we could easily jump to Hispanos and MG151/20 - to my knowledge hispanos used more AP(x)/Ball ammo than HE(x) based and MG151/20 used mostly HE ammo, which of the minengeschoss was quite powerful.
However from what I remember and from what I still read here, the Hispano is much more likely to cause catastrophic damage than MG151/20 by the relative terms.
However it should be more in favor of MG151/20 or at very least equal.

This said, to me it seems like AH is having too high damage based on the kinetic energy versus explosives.

[Hornet]

The stories of the d1.1 and d1.2 sniper kills from 50s never go away but the films never materialize. Age old routine of AH I suppose.

[B17Skull12]

<--has shot down spit from tail position of B17G at 1.5k and got ping on p47 at 1.7k:D

[AtmkRstr]

Numerous engagements with large, 50 caliber guns during the war took place at 1,600 meters (about 1,750 yards).

(refering to the Persian Gulf war, 1991)