Author Topic: .50 cal sniper rifles (Read 1595 times)

AtmkRstr · « **Reply #30 on:** September 16, 2003, 10:59:00 PM »

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Originally posted by Hornet
The stories of the d1.1 and d1.2 sniper kills from 50s never go away but the films never materialize. Age old routine of AH I suppose.

All you have to do is find a B17, start rolling film, and approach slowly from behind. Unless you're flying a bullet resistant tank ie a FW-190A8, you should have taken several hits worth worrying about before d1.0

And what's unrealistic about that? If a sniper can hit a stationary man sized target at 1750 yards with 1 round, then an expert tail gunner should be able to hit a fighter sized target which is moving relatively slowly directly towards the shooter from a similar distance using 100 rounds, non?

Fishu · « **Reply #31 on:** September 17, 2003, 06:18:35 AM »

AtmkRstr,

Umm... quite alot in fact.

Sniper rifles are very well manufactured, well maintained, they usually use special ammunition which is fit for sniping with the specific gun for the best accuracy, they shoot on semifire at a relatively stable targets, they have good scopes to aim with and most of all the operators are usually highly trained and talented experts.

WWII .50 caliber machinegun is about nothing of these..
Manufacturing quality was probably at an average level compared to nowdays production... including also manufacturing of the ammunition, which were in varying types.
In WWII they didn't make a big issue out of metal wear!
The spare parts for planes alone must been enough to give a life long nightmares for FAA inspectors.

Where a sniper can hit man sized target from over 1.5km, I'd give quite smallish chances for a person with 100 rounds and a .50 cal machinegun to hit a fighter with any chance for some kind of actual damage.
Hitting alone is so-so and thats required to make damage... then theres only very small areas on planes where the hit will do damage.

lazs2 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 17, 2003, 08:14:46 AM »

dispertion is modeled. At 2000 yards a .50 has more energy left than a 30 cal has at the muzzle and it is bigger around (makes a bigger hole) this is plenty of power to punch through most parts of a flimsy WWII ac.... it is enough to kill/wound the pilot or destroyu controls or destroy an engine or any of it's vital aux parts like radiators or oil coolers.

A one second burst from 6 .50's is allmost 100 rounds... you probly don't want 1 or two hundred .50's coming at you from 2000 yards away no matter what the dispertion.

for shooting down WWII fighters with fighters... the .50 was the best weapon.
lazs

Charon · « **Reply #33 on:** September 17, 2003, 11:14:36 AM »

Quote

Sniper rifles are very well manufactured, well maintained, they usually use special ammunition which is fit for sniping with the specific gun for the best accuracy, they shoot on semifire at a relatively stable targets, they have good scopes to aim with and most of all the operators are usually highly trained and talented experts.

WWII .50 caliber machinegun is about nothing of these..
Manufacturing quality was probably at an average level compared to nowdays production... including also manufacturing of the ammunition, which were in varying types.
In WWII they didn't make a big issue out of metal wear!
The spare parts for planes alone must been enough to give a life long nightmares for FAA inspectors.

Where a sniper can hit man sized target from over 1.5km, I'd give quite smallish chances for a person with 100 rounds and a .50 cal machinegun to hit a fighter with any chance for some kind of actual damage.
Hitting alone is so-so and thats required to make damage... then theres only very small areas on planes where the hit will do damage.

Once again, to qualify with the M2 .50 cal you have to hit a BMP (frontal) sized target at 1,000 yards using less than 14 rounds. Open sights, flex. mounted. It can do this without much trouble by walking one or two bursts into the target. I have no doubt that if you present the aircraft equivalent of a stationary plywood target at 1,000 meters, then it wouldn't be too hard to "walk the rounds in" in that environment as well.

And if you ever saw an M2, or had even the slightest amount of RL experience with the weapon and its capabilities, you might know better instead of spouting off ill informed opinions. The M2 is not a stamped, cheap modern weapon. It is highly machined and hard to replace even today. The only real wear component is the barrel, wich is easy to replace and which were replaced regulary in USAAF units because of the abundance of spares and materials our airforce enjoyed.

As far as sniping capabilities, M2s were used in single shot mode as sniper rifles in VietNam.

Quote

Marine Corps sniper Carlos Hathcock recorded a 2,500 yard kill against the Viet Cong using a sandbagged AN/M2HB and 8 power Unertl telescopic sight.

I think that if you locked convergence at 400 yards max much of the whining would die down.

Charon
Charon

Pooh21 · « **Reply #34 on:** September 17, 2003, 11:55:47 AM »

Im not complaining about the range, nor the power at the end of that range, lord knows .50s are tough. Its the hit sprites. In Il-2 with nose mounted 50s in the p-39s nose You can shoot, and hit at 1k but you have no idea if you are hitting or not, do to no 30mm sized hit sprites at 1 mile. Ive seen before, bug maybe, little spark sized hit sprites , I think that they should be standard hit sprite size for most MGs in AH

Monk · « **Reply #35 on:** September 17, 2003, 12:19:38 PM »

.50 cal. snipers, did someone say snipers. YUM YUM!!!

Charon · « **Reply #36 on:** September 17, 2003, 04:24:36 PM »

Fishu, I forgot about the enormous difference between the weak aircraft version and the sturdy, high powered ground version.

I think you overstate the dramatic difference between the air and ground versions according the the muzzle velocities I found (multiple sources for each). A mere 23 m/s total, and still a full 140 m/s higher compared to the MG131.

Browning .50 M2 Aircraft - 870 m/s
Browning .50 M2 Ground - 893 m/s

For Comparison:
MG131 - 730 m/s

Charon

Hornet · « **Reply #37 on:** September 17, 2003, 05:40:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AtmkRstr
All you have to do is find a B17, start rolling film, and approach slowly from behind. Unless you're flying a bullet resistant tank ie a FW-190A8, you should have taken several hits worth worrying about before d1.0

The buff gunnery model has been tweaked by HTC for gameplay purposes. I was referring to fighter vs fighter encounters. HT laid down a challenge a while back for films of this phenomenon and no on stepped to the plate. I've written this brand of whine off since then.

You may be correct that the 50s should be hitting plenty accurate and hard up to d1.2...in that case they are undermodeled in AH