Author Topic: Orson Scott Card on MP3 and RIAA (Read 1160 times)

Sandman · « **Reply #15 on:** September 16, 2003, 11:52:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
Either way, you aren't costing them resources or a sale which was Card's point. He wasn't advocating piracy but rather ridiculing their estimated losses.

Exactly... Software developers did the same thing... complaining about crackers that were copying their software. What they failed to realize was that the software was nothing more than a trophy. The crackers might play with it a bit, but it was ultimately shelved. These people had no intention of ever buying the software.

To call it lost revenue is not quite accurate.

Gadfly · « **Reply #16 on:** September 17, 2003, 12:00:55 AM »

I don't buy that sandman. I have been online for a long time, and I have seen the thieves using stolen software too often. That argument just doesn't wash. You want to make it an accounting issue, sure I agree, but the software is cracked, distributed and used, just like digital copies of music are, all the time.

A lost sale is when the demand exceeds the supply, not when stolen copies are available for free.

AKIron · « **Reply #17 on:** September 17, 2003, 12:05:30 AM »

Books are a better comparison. I think you'll find that books on average are much more appropriately priced than music cds. Of course if books were made readily available to anyone that wanted to read them free of charge the writers would starve. Oh, wait, forgot about libraries.

While Napster or Kazaa may be likened to a very large library there is of course a significant difference. Libraries don't buy one book and then make it available for millions to read simultaneously.

I don't have a problem with the record industry protecting their property. Even it means they have to threaten and scare kids to do it (hmmm, actually kinda like that part

). But whining that every song copied is money out of their pocket is ludicrous. Again, that was Card's larger point.

Gadfly · « **Reply #18 on:** September 17, 2003, 12:07:42 AM »

Let's take a few of his books, and the new one not published yet and put it in a PDF on the net and I bet he changes his mind PDQ.

AKIron · « **Reply #19 on:** September 17, 2003, 12:11:48 AM »

I bet you can find every one of his books, except maybe one unpublished, on the net now. I'm sure he knows it.

Gadfly · « **Reply #20 on:** September 17, 2003, 12:22:55 AM »

Some of his books are available as Ebooks, but they run 24.95$ . I searched pretty throughly, without going to the HaXXosr sites, but there are none available for free. I have a hard time squaring his stance, re: music, with his stance re: his own books.

Vulcan · « **Reply #21 on:** September 17, 2003, 12:30:30 AM »

Why use an analogy to describe a unique situation?

There has never been anything like the Peer sharing/mp3 thing before.

The net result of converting his book to PDF and distributing onto the net is not necessarily what you might think... and perhaps highlights what is wrong with the music industry, lets take an example scenario ($NZ used, NZ$1=US$0.60

- I see this guys ebook/pdf and download it
- I read part of it and decide I like his work
- PDFs on computers aren't fun to read for long periods of time, they're not comfortable as paper (well for me)
- I decide I want a printed version of this guys work
- I have a printer at home, but wait, its 300 pages
- I go to the bookstore, his book is there for $15
- at best my inkjet costs 5-10c per page + paper cost, it'd cost me between $15-$30 to print my own copy
- I decide to buy the covered, bound book at the bookstore because its the same or better priced

Then theres the MP3 version:
- I see some new music on the net and download it (entire CDs worth)
- I play it and decide I want the music to play on my CD player
- have a CD writer at home, and a blank CD is under $1
- I go to the music shop, the CD is $30
- I go home and burn the CD

It also leads to the question, how is it that a book can sell so much cheaper than a music CD, when IMHO a book takes more to physically produce?

Is it because the book publishing guys haven't bent us over and butt raped the consumer for the last 20 years?

Gadfly · « **Reply #22 on:** September 17, 2003, 12:43:06 AM »

All spurious, because the fact remains: The RIAA sucks, Record companies suck, Software companies suck, but you are still getting someone elses property for free. It is stealing, no matter how you spin it.

If they wanted it to be free, they would post it with a big banner that said: FREE! download my(emphasis on MY) music here.

Maniac · « **Reply #23 on:** September 17, 2003, 04:30:39 AM »

If i buy a T-shirt that have a Nike print on it, does it hurt Nike that the T-shirt is an bootleg? (copy)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #24 on:** September 17, 2003, 04:35:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maniac
If i buy a T-shirt that have a Nike print on it, does it hurt Nike that the T-shirt is an bootleg? (copy)

Yes. Because the manufacturer of the shirt failed to secure legal rights to use the Nike logo and so benefited from it without consent of or payment to Nike.

Fishu · « **Reply #25 on:** September 17, 2003, 05:42:54 AM »

Software piracy has actually helped the marketing in many cases that I know of.

First of all, let's have a look at the professional 3D modelling, grahics... etc.

Those programs costs huge sums of money, I mean, alot.. you could for example buy a car with the price of most popular professional 3D modelling programs(!).

How many people do you know who would pay as large sums for such a program, without much knowledge about it?

I know some 3D modellers who have used pirated software and then taken it to their profession once learned to use it and got became able to make profit of it - and bought the program they've used 'illegally'.

I'd say most of these persons I know, wouldn't have done so if they wouldn't of had the program 'for cheaper'.
Most of all, they were all students at the time they began using the program...

I'd like to see how many students would otherwise have the will to buy a program worth a car, without any knowledge how to properly use it or even knowing it could someday become their profession.

Then I can talk for my own behalf with the pirated games..
I've downloaded games, not alot, only the ones which I think I'd like to play and then later on bought the games when seen it's worth it and didn't fly into the byteheaven the next day.
Although this can be partially accredited to warez games becoming available from couple weeks to couple months before available at the local stores, over here in Finland

..can't either talk much about trying the game with demos, since most of the games I've bought, simply never has had any demos to try!
Besides I hate demos.. when those are available for good games, it gets helluva annoying to wait for the full game... US OFP fans could probably second that

(for those who dont know, it was like closer to 2 months later available in US than EU)

and it's too damn pity not everyone can be rich.. windows alone has cost few times more the cash I have left in hand every month after the basic bills.

Animal · « **Reply #26 on:** September 17, 2003, 06:53:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gadfly
Some of his books are available as Ebooks, but they run 24.95$ . I searched pretty throughly, without going to the HaXXosr sites, but there are none available for free. I have a hard time squaring his stance, re: music, with his stance re: his own books.

All of his books are available in pirated e-form. Thats how I first learned about Card, reading a pirated Ender's Game copy. That you cannot find it reflects how much you know about this subject.

After I finished it, I ordered it, along with Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hedgemon, and Speaker for the dead.
Talk about "loss" from one downloaded pirated copy. And I'm sure it happens pretty often.

You steal a Porsche, and the dealer loses thousands of dollars. You download a CD, and the record industry loses $0, and potentially earns something if the downloader actually liked the music.

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
Software piracy has actually helped the marketing in many cases that I know of.

Bill Gates has been quoted with saying that Microsoft would not be what it is today without the illegal distruibution DOS and Windows had in the beginning.

Ghosth · « **Reply #27 on:** September 17, 2003, 07:54:35 AM »

Your missing the point.

Copywrite is totally fubar.

It was written to make sure that artists got their fair share of any material sold.

It never did nor was intented to prevent people from sharing.

It has not kept up with the times and as such needs to be rewritten.

RIAA on the other hand is trying to sue for something it never had. Sales, that was Cards point.

Company's have to adapt to the times & technology.

Reallity is that the internet is not going to go away. File sharing is not going to stop, people are not going to be scared away from it. RIAA & music company's need to find a new business model that works.

Gadfly · « **Reply #28 on:** September 17, 2003, 08:20:40 AM »

Bill Gates has also been quoted as saying that 64k is more memory than anyone will need. So what.

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 17, 2003, 08:43:38 AM »

Leave it to Bill Gates to blame pirates for his company's monopolistic business practices.