Author Topic: An alternative to the base capture thingy...  (Read 801 times)

Offline SKurj

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« on: August 16, 2001, 09:37:00 PM »
Just been doing some thunkin....

Instead of base capture:  Have a ermm how shall i say... fluid front.  For this to be effective, many more strategic targets etc may have to be implemented, along with supply etc.
As a team attacks another the more damage they do to the opposition's strategic system, the further the "fluid front" moves into the enemy territory.  IF the front extends far enough to encompass an enemy base, that base becomes the property of the attacker.
This basically represents the ground war, and the effects of the strength of airpower.
Strategic bombing would then have a place.  Lazer guided weaponry would be a thing of the past with larger blast radii, and carpet bombing serving a purpose.  Cities could be bombed and a morale adjustment made which would move the front as well.
Base bombardment would still exist, just no captures possible.  The C47 could be used to fly troops/supplies to one of your own bases under siege to strengthen it.

I think a system resembling ideas like above might really help to motivate.  It may be complex to put into place, and I'd imagine, it would be a system that would take quite awhile to balance properly, but it would make Aces unique in the strat department.

Whadda ya think?

Please.. this idea has undergone changes, read all my posts in this thread before commenting.

SKurj/Molson

[ 08-27-2001: Message edited by: SKurj ]

Offline mrfish

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2001, 03:42:00 AM »
i think we'll see more of this as the game evolves. it's a great idea. it is good to start thinking of how it should be now and i'm sure htc is already toying with ideas.

Offline Nash

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2001, 03:58:00 AM »
This sounds very cool to me. It would be a nice change of pace to have territory move forward and back based on something broader than just focusing assets on these individual airfields (it's a bit one dimensional as even bombing cities etc. still only really affect airfields).

I can see bringing up the clipboard map and having this translucent overlay indicating the current "fronts", and watching the ebb and flow in certain areas based on what's going on in that region. I'm no programer so I will stop talking now.  :)

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: Nash ]

Offline SKurj

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2001, 01:57:00 PM »
You got the idea Nash +)

Yes the overlays would be good.  With this system, and many more installations the game could really rock +)

I have alot more to add to this idea, and unfortunately not enough time to type it right now, work calls...

SKurj

Offline snafu

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2001, 03:37:00 PM »
This really sounds great, <S> Skurj It might be a bit to Strat orientated for the MA but it is exactly what we are crying out for in the Combat Arena it satisfies the "Base Capture" brigade and also the "Strat" brigade, I would really like to see this.

TTFN
snafu

Offline SKurj

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2001, 06:25:00 PM »
Okey time to expand some more on this idea:

Strat layer:

A strat resource point system containing several different areas which affect gameplay in different ways.

Supply: This would include railyards, ports, bridges, convoys (wet or dry).  A team's supply score is based on the condition of their supply system.  The higher the score the quicker the auto rebuild time.  As a team's supply network is damaged by its opponent killing convoy's, bombing railyards, ports etc, the supply score goes down.
Players have the ability to supplement the supply system, by driving supplies etc to repair bridges, ports etc.  (need a truck and spawn points in cities for them as well as a defensive vehicle, m16 for example)  Of course railyards and ports would be close to cities/towns.

Morale: A team has a morale score, the better a team is doing (dishing out more than its receiving) the higher this score, the faster a team rebuilds, and develops(more later).  A team's morale will drop when the team is not doing so well, as well as when friendly civilian targets are being bombed (cities/towns)  Morale points contain a modifier.  each team starts with a morale of 50% for each 10% the morale score increases a small modifier is applied to Production scores, Supply (affecting auto rebuild times).   If morale scores DROP.. to reflect the unique ideas of the Axis in ww2 R&D gains a small modifier.  The lower the morale the quicker R&D scores rise. NOTE: The losing team will get new planes and vehicles quickly, however with limited production once developed.

Research & Development: Teams have R&D centers, at the start of a campaign, each country has one.  These centers are responsible for introducing new planes/equipment.  The R&D score constantly increases, unless the facilities are bombed.  At predetermined point levels a new aircraft or vehicle type is developed.  Initially it is a perk ride.  Once the new unit has been developed, a factory must then be built, until the factory is finished, the new unit is a perk. Once the factory is complete, the unit, depending on what it is(262 for example would never be free) becomes free.
Also as the point level reaches #### points, more R&D centers will be built.

Production: Factories, storage depots etc.  Each team starts with basically the factories now in AH.  The production score also increases over time, based on the level of output of the factories.  A damaged factory, increases the production value much less than one at 100% production.  Any factory at 25% or less shuts down until repairs are complete.  If the factory is completely destroyed a penalty of an extension in rebuild time goes into effect.  If a factory manages to maintain 100% production for XX amount of time, a supply depot is built.  If a factory is bombed which has built a supply depot, the production levels do not drop until the supply depot starts to run dry.  The supply depot will run dry in 1/2 the time it will take to auto rebuild a factory from 25%.
The as new factories go up for new planes and vehicles they are added into the equation as well.  If an aircraft factory is bombed to below 25% of its production (no supply depots for aircraft factories), the plane type it is assigned to produce becomes a perk. (amount of perk depends on aircraft type) Once the factory is rebuilt to 100% again, the aircraft becomes free.  If the factory is bombed to anything more than 25% just its production input score is affected.
Shipyards could also be added, and affect warship production.

What do the points mean?

To apply this to the Fluid Front... At the start of the war, the front is equadistant from both HQ's.  As startegic targets such as factories, the supply system, cities etc are damaged the front moves GLOBALLY away from the HQ doing the damage towards to damaged team's HQ.  Well that means the front moves in basically a straight line... Targets such as AIr bases, Army bases, when damaged affect the front nearby directly!  The front adjacent to the base moves toward the damaged base along part of its length.  If the front is close enough such that bombardment of the base results in the front encompassing the base, it falls into enemy hands, and the attacker takes over the base.  The freshly taken base will NOT auto rebuild until it has been rebuilt once by the players transporting supplies, materials, defences etc in.  Therefore any base that is damaged when it is captured, stays that way if it is not resupplied by the players for the 1st time.

Ok hell this is long, sorry guys

More ideas to follow....


SKurj

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: SKurj ]

Offline Vruth

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2001, 06:30:00 PM »
Perhaps an interesting twist to this is to start limiting plane/vehicle numbers from different airfields based on the current state of the countries infrastructure.

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: Vruth ]

Offline SKurj

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2001, 06:33:00 PM »
Tis the only one worth reading +)


SKurj

Offline SKurj

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2001, 09:00:00 PM »
More additions...

This system would create more diversity in mission choices.
One I envision is the implementation of spies.  A player chooses a suitable multicrew aircraft, flies into enemy territory, and drops the spy off somewhere.  The spy then reports all enemy activity in the sector which he is in.  Any enemy facilities become visible on the map, supply routes also.  The production values of any facilities also become available in the strat screen as well.  I haven't decided if a spy will stay in place indefinitely or perhaps a "roll of the dice" is implemented every 30 minutes to see if he gets caught.
Any spy dropped within the HQ sector, reports status on all enemy production, supply, and morale. He alos reports the type and sector location of all facilities of the enemy.  NOTE: he is only able to report that for example, a spitIX factory is in sector 9,11 at 100% production.  Not the exact location which a spy in the sector would be able to report.
The HQ spy data would all be displayed on the strat screen.  An HQ spy would also do the roll of the dice, however with a MUCH greater chance of being caught.

Errmm also... HQ is NOT visible on the map, unless a spy is in sector.  Perhaps a randomizer could be implemented that would move the HQ at each map reset.

Radar...

Ok this setup perhaps suits a CT style arena more than the MA.. I'm not sure.  Anyways for MA type usage: basically the same as now with a few adjustments.  When HQ is hit the first thing to dissappear is Bar dar.  Once the HQ is flattened, dot dar still exists, BUT only near the base at which the player took off.  Even in the tower the player can only see the dot dar for the base he is currently at.  Now if the base dar is also hit then no dar at all.  It makes little sense to me that killing HQ effectively takes down every dar station... we don't have EMP in the game do we?

For the CT, No bar dar unless within friendly territory or within LOS of friendly territory.  Dot dar from radar installations along the defensive front.  When destroyed dot dar is down for that region only for XX amount of time.  Dot dar also from fields.(not sure whether or not it should just be from the players home field and dar stations, or all fields and dar stations...)
The inflight/tower map is dalayed, and is a snapshot.  Player hits map key, a still map with contacts etc is displayed which may have been accurate at some point in the past, be that 2 mins or 10.  Cons are displayed with heading, and possibly approx alt.  Delay could be either random or an arena setting.

Ahhh fingers gettin tired... hope i not wastin all my time +)

SKurj/Molson

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: SKurj ]

Offline Nash

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2001, 09:12:00 PM »
Brilliant idea Skurj but don't get carried away with stuff like spies and such.  :)

If you want to keep your mind busy on it maybe think of how HTC would go about solving a bunch of related issues... like when a train is en route to some place that suddenly falls into the hands of another country. Etc.

Also a big no-no on limiting plane selection through strat - leave that to the perk system.

Love the idea though... would love to see something like this implemented.

Offline SKurj

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2001, 09:25:00 PM »
Trying to think of a way of adding a communications network.....

Communication "relay" structures could be laid out on the map, like a power grid, with a radio building at each facility and base which is connected to the relay structures, which eventually tie into the HQ.
As long as the comms building is undamaged an alarm system exists at that facility.  If the building is damaged, the alarm system is delayed.  If destroyed, no alarm at all, and no damage reports available on the strat screen for either team.  Production numbers yes, but no info as to % of AA down, % of defensive force out of action(facilities given a supply of troops), % of ammo left etc etc
And no Bar Dar from anything which has comms down.  I am relating Bar dar to ground sightings.
Some redundancy should be built into the grid, but with care whole sections of the comms grid could be taken out.  However!! all bases/facilities that are connected can at least communicate with each other.  If a player is at a base which has been cutoff from HQ, yet is still connected to some nearby facilities, he loses Bar Dar functionality everywhere except within the connected group.
To tie this in with dar stations... if the dar stations are cutoff the player is unable to access their info.

Gettin too complicated mebbe.....

Don't think it would be complex to learn.  Players maight have to read a tiny bit to learn why sometimes they don't see much on dar etc.  
In a way it makes the game simpler.  Every target has importance.  There are lots of reasons to bomb.  The furballers will always have 2 close fields more than likely, and whether they like it or not, by shooting down enemy planes they are contributing to their teams strat efforts.(every kill = global team points)
The strat guys will likely have a field day!  The realism boys will be all giggly, because realistic mission profiles may have to be flown for a team to succeed!!

Oh yeah, destroy an enemy field without the front encompassin it, and the field just rebuilds on auto quite slowly unless the players resupply it.

SKurj

Offline SKurj

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2001, 09:28:00 PM »
actually Nash, strat does and doesn't limit plane selection.  This system I believe replaces the RPS.  Its up to the players themselves to get that next ride they like.  To do so, they have to defend their countries R&D and production facilities.
I always liked the airwarrior idea of plane factories....
The strat and perk systems work together in concert..

SKurj

Offline SKurj

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2001, 09:36:00 PM »
Train/convoy enroute to a base which falls into enemy hands.  Train arrives, is captured, and ceases to run unless there is a friendly(ex-enemy) base or facility which is connected to the base.  If so the train runs its new route.
The train could simply be destroyed, and one more added to the capturing teams network.
If the trains all originate in the same spots, perhaps the new train would just depart from there to its new destination at the time of capture.

It gets awkward if trains are running big loops serving several facilities/bases.. And it gets cluttered if every base/facility has its own train/convoy...


SKurj

Offline StSanta

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2001, 07:00:00 AM »
One prob is that once a country goes downhill, it will have a harder and hardr time fighting back.

A country with 14 players down to 3 bases will have say 3 times the rebuild times of the two gangbanging countries who have 40 players each.

Offline SKurj

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An alternative to the base capture thingy...
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2001, 10:27:00 AM »
Yeah Stsanta, its more designed around a 2 country CT type scenario

SKurj