Proper Tactics

[Happy1]

AH fliers 1 & all    Emboldened by a successful trng episode in TA
I decided to whet my appetite 4 aircombat by entering the CT to-
nite, on CV1 heading towards Okinawa.   My very 1st time.  

Spit9s weren't, obviously, available & my choice of a/c was an
F6F-5, 50lbs fuel, I launched from the CV twds the Japanese Fleet,
at 12K after dodging flak, I noticed 2 N1K2s approaching my 6
D1.8 away, I immelmaned & streaked down for what I surmised
2b an easy kill, @ D900 the nmes opened fire, weaving I waited until D600 & opened up on the nearest bogey.

Unfortunately & to my surprise I was shot down & quickly too (
Now then I had altitude, which I converted to speed, I began to weave to avoid HOs yet I lost the battle in less than 1/2 a minute!

How would u experienced pple handle this exact situation were u in my place?   What tactics would u use?  How would u've scored
against the nmes & why?   What would've been the best maneu-
ver to use & what did I do wrong?  

I invite ur analysis & critique ... help me in becoming a better overall well rounded pilot/killer...TY.

Cheers,

Happy1  

[Ack-Ack]

Go into a shallow dive and extend away.  The F6F is faster and dives better than a N1K2 and use that to your advantage.  Once you've extended enough that you're out of danger, go into a shallow climb and trade your E for some altitude.  Once you're above them, all the cards are in your hand and you can dicate the fight.  Remember use the strengths of your plane to counter the strengths of theirs.  The only thing the N1K2 has over the Hellcat is it's turning ability at medium speeds and it's cannons but with smart flying you can keep your plane out of the N1K2's cone of fire.  Basically you are going to want to use Energy fighting tactics such as the Boom 'N Zoom against the N1K2.

If you haven't already, I highly suggest you read this stuff that BulletHead wrote on Energy Fighting and Management.  It's probably one of the best write ups on this subject for the arm chair aces.



BulletHead's Energy lectures

This is another good site with a wealth of information.  

Warbird's Tip Storage

Boom and Zoom by Vossman (no, not THAT Voss)

I hope this help you out.  If you like, if you eve see me in the MA (in-game handle is AKAK) give me a holler and I'll be more than happy to help you out.  It's really refreshing to see a new player that's enthusiastic about learning the wonderful art that is ACM


ack-ack

[Happy1]

Thx AKAK  sincerely appreciate ur recommendations & the 3 URLs provided me, the info is loaded w/jewels of wisdom, I'll cer-
tainly spend time reading/studying Energy Mgt.

Tonite, after posting, my "Proper Tactics" I was able to score 2 kills, a fully armed B17 & a P51   , I landed the B17 kill but was
shot down by flak in my smoking Spit9 after the P51 kill  

I'd like to thank all of my training instructors, Roscoroo, RTR & the
many others who encouraged me in my fumbling attempts & who
graciously helped me advice-wise.

AKAK I'll most certainly call on u should I see u in any of the arenas, TY 4 ur kind words .

Cheers,

Happy1  

[MaddogJoe]

Hey Happy!

From your discription, it sounds like you dove strai in on the Niks and got killed in an HO. While I'm no pro, you have to judge each fight by all the info you have found here.

your planes strenghts and weaknesses

enemy planes strenght and weaknesses

your energy state compared with the enemies energy state

Not only do you have to figure this for each fight, you have to figure it for each attack run IN each fight.

In the fight with the Niks... first pass dive in, but don't even bother making a guns pass, Niks will be fast and love the HO, pull up at a moderate climb rate when you are D1500-1200 This will make MOST niks turn and blead "E" to follow. Don't get to close, because thet speed of the Nik is good and all he needs is one good shot to hole you up pretty bad. The F6 climbs better than the nik, so use that, let them try to climb to you. As they fall off distances wise...watch numbers... make another pass. Again you have to decide if they are low enough on energy to be able to bring the guns ...nose up to you... to bear. If they are still moving pretty good, make the same kind of pass, if they look slow, make a guns run and zoom out and regain alt again. Keep doing this till they have no choice but to die under your guns  

Most fights are going to be like this. A dance where you use a hi yo-yo to make the enemy burn "E" and climb to you, or an Immel if you have all the "E". One manuver isn't going to win the fight for you first time every time. Its all in how you combine the moves in a counter to the enemy. Sometime one combonation works well, other time it don't. Thats why the "Pros" on these boards point out to learn each plane. even the ones you don't fly, just to know what to expect.

Learning to fly in the spit at first is a great way to start. Its a very forgiving plane and you can concintrate on getting the basics down. After that all the other plane fly "basically" the same, you just have to concintrate on the strenght and weaknesses of each after that.

There is alot to learn, but like any other thing in this world, if ya want to get good at something, you have a lot to learn, and practice. or you can be a dweeb and turn and burn in the furballs  I've been flying in AH for 2 years, and like I said, I'm no Pro.... but I'm getting there  

[MANDOBLE]

N1K2 needs very little E to be able to point the nose on you and fire. You may follow a pattern to give the n1k2 "false" aproach paths and false firing hopes. At the end, you will catch it falling from one of these frustrated attempts and you will be able to kill it. But in most cases, you will find very green pilots flying these beasts, and you will have little or no problem killing them all.

[Happy1]

Maddog & MANDOBLE

Thx much 4 sharing ur expertise w/me, ur input is very much appreciated, u r absolutely right that I've lots to learn & for me
2 study not only my own a/c strengths but likewise of the nmes applying the correct tactics in the knowledge of planes & their nuances.   It's a continuing education to further oneself into the
"Pros" rank.  TY 4 ur advice I'll follow up on it 2b sure  

Cheers,

Happy1  

[Roscoroo]

Hi Happy , sounds like your finally getting in and seeing the action Good ... just look at getting shot down as a learning experience and try something alittle different the next time....hit alt R  (for record ) right befor u get in a dogfight and watch the films afterwards ... you'll see your mistakes in the film /along with what the other guy did to beat you.

Ill be back in the main/ta ect as soon as my dsl gets hooked up this coming week... (I rat holed my 6 mo sub $$$ yesterday)

I dont have much time to help til this is all done (im having to learn and build a new type of network ..for when my dsl gets turned on ... )this will fix my voice and hosting problem also .

we'll get together soon for some flight time

[Sox62]

Happy1,here is Soda's help page.It analyzes each aircraft,and tells you how to fly them,and how to beat them also.


http://www.telusplanet.net/~dsoder/models

[ccvi]

Originally posted by Happy1
... 50lbs fuel...

You can hardly get the engine warmed up with 50 lbs of fuel.

[scJazz]

Happy1 a couple of things...

First of all engaging a pair of N1Ks in a F6F is not a great idea. Yes, the Hellcat is a great match for a N1K but against 2 of them... no not really. For that matter getting into a fight with 2 to 1 odds in any situation is not the greatest of plans.

Second, keep in mind that you were flying in the CT. Even though you were flying against "dweeb" planes you were doing it in a restricted environment. The Axis choices for fighters in the Okinawa map are Zero's, N1Ks, and KI-61s. It is probable that you weren't flying against green pilots. In fact since most pilots in the CT are at worst regulars. Entering this fight was suicidal.

Third, when entering a 2 to 1 fight one of the main keys is to damage or destroy 1 of the aircraft ASAP. I might have considered opening fire on 1 of the N1Ks in the HO pass you described at D1.2 (spray and pray). N1Ks aren't specially tough and a pilot wound would have made a great difference. After spraying until around D800 I would have started spoiling maneuvers.

Fourth, when you executed your Immelman and rolled back down to engage them you probably caused your E state to be lower than the N1Ks at the onset of the fight. Bad idea. Yes, you gained ALT and converted it back to speed but was your airspeed higher than it was when you were in level flight? I doubt it.

Lastly, D1.8 is not a good range to execute an immelman. You should have probably stayed level until around D2.5. That way you would have had time to organize, gain back E, and ready yourself for the fight.

[Hap]

hope you have as much fun flying as i do.  the advice i'm passing along is some i wish had been handed to me when i began.  Learn Strat.  Doing so helps your country while shooting down 10 guys and landing them does not "necessarily" because we pilots are immediately renewable resources whereas barracks, ammo, radar, and fuel are not: they take 2hrs to 5 hrs to regnerate depending on other factors.

Once you see how the strat system controls the game, learn to divebomb effectively.  play with gunsites that are avail under the setupmenu.   find one that will allow you to to hit 90%+ of your d'bombing objectives.  After you've selected a gunsite that you believe best, go offiline with 250 lb bombs with your fav ride with 25% fuel.  Empty your ammo magazine prior to takeoff.  Losing your ammo will show you how drasticly weight affects peformance.  Many planes offer more than 1 gun package on loadout in the hangar for a reason.  The "empty your ammo" experiment offline is the best way i know to experience the difference.  Climb to 15k then practice hitting ack with 250lbers.  I used the most tedious method, trial and error.  Now I can divebomb with a very high degree of accuracy.

One run comes to mind that was so much fun and beneficial for my country i'll describe it.  I took a plane (i was going to give you the loadout but you can figure that out on your own; shouldn't share all the secrets) and flew to some small base that we didn't have.  Mean while the pilots there were about to capture a vbase which we currently owned some 18 miles round the island.  i checked the town visually using zoom and the ammo and barracks at town were ded.  on 1 pass i salvo'ed my wing bombs (salvo 1) toggled to fuselage and took out the barracks and both ammo.

I'd been watching dar and noticed some activity at the vbase up the coast.  I hightailed it there under dar and blew away the goon before he dropped, and nailed 2 cons that didn't know i was there.

Landed succesfully.  Heaven for me.  Was so much fun.  And it helped my country's war effort.

If that sort of mission doesn't appeal to you, then up laffer and try to kill as many as you can.  it makes my job easier if you do, and helps my country's war effeort.  Good luck to you.

[Happy1]

Thx much every1 who so generously contributed so unselfishly to my flite education     This discussion & critique certainly opened
many additional nuggets of worthwhile info 4 me .   I'm learning &
am grateful for ur cooperation.  
 

Happy1  

[humble]

Happy....

From your original post and responses it sounds like you Reversed a bit to quickly and dove back into nikki's...ack-acks advice the smart play....however if you were 1.8 and slightly positive E your set for a rope...you pull into a gentle (2-3G) climb and slowly steepen it out till your vertical at about stall speed...with a little practice you can control the "stall" so you basically just wingover without losing any control. The goal is to have the bogie 'hanging" about 1.0 under you as you roll over on him. This is a somewhat risky tactic for a "newbie" (judging E stae/zoom rates is tough) but is one of the core tactics in E fighting.

A couple things that didnt see mentioned :

1) the effect of internet "lag" on range....the planes are never quite where you see them...so a target "opening up at 900 is probably really 750 or so out
2) HO effective range is longer since the planes are approaching faster...alot of HO aces(if there is such a thing) open up at 1.2 or longer in fast merges.
3) varying ballistics...the .50 cal is a "flatter" round then the 20mm in the nikki...it wont "fall off" as fast...so you can open up at long range 1.5 and evade at 1.0 and have a reasonable chance of avoiding hits from nikki
4) As a general rule dont HO when you feel you have a reasonable chance...90% of the time you sacrifice angles and E for a marginal shot and risk damage/death...however if your in a bad spot and someone gives you face shot...light em up
5) cannon planes win more HO's than they lose vs american iron (except jug)

As a last comment I'd stay away from the spitty during your initial development...yes you'll get a few more kills...but you'll also learn a bunch of bad habits...especially with regard to E management.

The F6, 205, la-5, 109 G-2, F4U-1 and P-47 are all great rides to learn on. You'll bleed a bit more early on but you'll learn a bunch more...also build perks quicker as well overall.

[Gremlin]

Happy,  Great to see that you are having fun and interested in learning how to fite the right way rather than just taking the first cheap ho which comes along.  You obviously realise that there is nothing to be learned from that!  While reading what the other guys had to say and the post that most resembles what I was thinking was humbles.  I remember over three years ago being in a similar position to you and humble was a great help to me back then  BTW humble i never see you flying these days whazzup?

Anyway Happy,  when I read your first move was an immelmann, I thought uh oh.  I would never consider that.  Especially if the pursuing bandits are anyway faster and closing.  The n1k is very good in the nose up state and there is a good chance one will just go into a climb and blow you away at the top of your immelmann whilst you have no chance to evade.

So rule #1 if a plane is closing on your 6 an upwards reversal is not the answer unless the bogie is so far away that you can complete the manoever before the bandit gets to guns range.

Think about what u want to achieve, nailing on or both n1ks.  In order to achieve that you must gain an advantage over them.

If that were me I would have slowly dived away to inclease separation.  Invariably you find that the pursuers give up and reverse.  This is your chance.  The have burned some e reversing,  now you either do one of two things, either immelmann and begin chasing them down or pull a nice gentle flat turn below their horizontal axis.  This way there is a reasonable chance they wont even see you do it and you may be able to sneak in on one of theior low sixes. (agreed there is less chance of this against two but I have seen this many many times and you'd be amazed how often it works.

As far as avoiding HOs, my usual trick is to make em think you are interested in a HO until about d1.4-d1.3, then dive below and to the left (or right) doesnt matter and if you have an e advantage go immediately vertical once your safely past.  Usually an n1k or a spit wil pull a hard reversal buring a lot of e and become prime candidates for a 'rope'

In case you havent come across it before a 'rope' short for 'rope a dope' is where you have an e advantage over a bandit and you trick him into coming  up behind you in the vertical.  His e-bleeds away before yours and his nose flops over.  You are watching him all the time and once you see him about to flop over (experience will teach you when this is)  usually you will see him wobble or suddenly lose distance.  You then make a hammerhead like manoever and nail him good and proper on the way down while he is flopping around like a wet fish!!  This type of kill, for me anyway, is always the sweetest.

My main general advice to you is, choose your fights, dont always go for the first red icon that comes along (never ever climb to meet a bandit - fatal).  Consider whether you feel you can win, if you cant dont engage.
Always be aware of whats around you (situational awareness) know your escape route and keep it under constant revision.

More importantly than all of that, have lots of fun:)  You will do well in this game with your desire to learn and I wish you the very best in that endeavour.

[humble]

Gremlin......always nice to be remembered...everytime you take a break you "lose" your handle...flying under azhacker right now...was snaphook before that.

Think we've "crossed swords" a few times...btw hows the other half of the dynamic duo (grey area) doing? You guys were always a tough tag team combo.

Going back to his original comments...one of the key fundementals I used to focus on with "newbies" was angles vs E and the dangers of the "nose down" shot. I couldnt tell if he got hammered in a HO or simply was nose down on the merge...obviously a decent nikki driver would have no problem eating up the angles on the reverse...and the moment he pulled the nose over the horizon he'd begin to outbleed the nikki...I'd say 7 to 10 sec fight before he's parts...so the real issue here might be a co-e or pos E nose down merge preceded by a "face shot" that locked in bad angles...specially if he was being bracketed by wingies...probably 1 or both were actually in oblique lead turns prior to the merge....sigh...tough being a baby seal:)