Author Topic: Which would you rather fly if your life depended.. (Read 3892 times)

davidpt40 · « **Reply #30 on:** September 25, 2003, 09:44:30 AM »

P-51D definately. High speed, long range, great visibility.

And the only very vulnerable part on the mustang was the radiator. I have pictures of a pilot actually standing in the hole that a flak shell made in the wing of his P51.

Oldman731 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 25, 2003, 11:54:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
So far the tally is

Ah. Well, if we're keeping score, guess I should vote.

P-47, no question about it. It was the plane that won the air war in Europe. Beyond that, the original question in this thread was what plane would we like to fly if our lives depended on it (not which plane was the "best" fighter). I want one that will bring me back, and I don't think there's much argument about which plane was most survivable.

- oldman

frank3 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 25, 2003, 01:36:53 PM »

Jug ofcourse, even if my life wouldn't depend on it...

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #33 on:** September 25, 2003, 02:43:06 PM »

It was interesting in AW2, they had events on Sunday I think. And you were given but one life. One time it was, more or less, a
free for all, and the allied side was almost 100% p51, and the axis side was nearly 100% 190d-9. (not incuding the buffs for either side) It was long time ago, but distincly remember being shocked at not seeing even 1 spit9 for the allies considering the large number of spit9's that populated the MA.
(the Jug was never flown in AW due to the rediculous undermodeling job)

Angus · « **Reply #34 on:** September 25, 2003, 02:54:16 PM »

From Oldman:
"P-47, no question about it. It was the plane that won the air war in Europe."
When the P47 entered the fray, the air war in Europe had been going on for almost 4 years. The Germans had lost their edge, - the first time they met an organized and up to date airforce (only half their size or so though) they lost, and after that things just got worse for the LW.
When the Jug entered the fray, the LW had also been fighting more than a year on the eastern front, - loosing their ground gradually, for the masses of Russian planes were way beyond the potency of the former mighty Luftwaffe.
If any plane was to be credited for winning the air war in Europe, I'd put my money on the Spitfire. It was there when the tide shifted, - it had been there for 3 years and the LW had fallen back in that time.
Were it a bomber, the Lancaster might be a candidate, - after all, the RAF dropped more bombs on Germany than the USAAF....

rshubert · « **Reply #35 on:** September 25, 2003, 03:12:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Regale us vorticon..Can u post some stats or comments about the performance of the tempest in this vital role?

Does it perform well at high altitudes?
What was the main escort fighter for the Brits?
How is its range?
Ground attack survivablility?

I choose the p47 simply because of the flight sims I have flown that have offered a career choice. (EAW, CFS1) to name acupple.
That is as educated as I can get. The Jugs numbers are outstanding as far as survivability. (I wil find the numbers later),
Even though it doesnt rack up the kills, it does force the nme to either break from attack or die. At high altitude, and I remeber,
I think it was Francis Gabreski, saying, "The p47 could corkscrew up and up and the nme could not follow." This is far removed from any of the flight sims I have flown, but I have to believe a
WW2 fighter pilot who survived a good part of the Air war in Europe over the modelers of cyber airplanes.

Combine this with the diving ability and the P47 could 'disengage at will."
So for my decision, the Jug could force the nme to break off attack from the bomber forms, or could drag the nme away from the formations, completing the first part (escort) of thier mission.
As far as ground attack, the Jugs performance is well documented. Awesome firepower in just its 8x .50s'. Survivablility second to none.
I have heard that the p38 wasnt very competitive in the European air war, and I am curios as to why?
were there any p38 aces in europe?
If so, then who?
Maybe the 109's were the answer to the p38?

The P-38 was not competititve in Europe because the early models (h and below) had two problems: the radiators in the leading edge weren't controllable as to airflow, and the turbochargers weren't matched to the engines properly.

The uncontrollable radiator airflow caused the engines to fail to heat up properly, and run at low temperatures at high altitudes. This caused engines to fail. Another effect was the complicated nature of the coolant flow, which caused leaks, and engine failures.

The turbo mismatch caused engine failures at high alt, also.

In the Pacific, the typical operating altitudes were lower, and these problems were not seen.

HoHun · « **Reply #36 on:** September 25, 2003, 03:34:12 PM »

Hi Whitehawk,

>(the Jug was never flown in AW due to the rediculous undermodeling job)

The problem is that it was badly underpowered below 10000 ft. However, only few people realized that above 17000 ft, it was actually overmodelled! Right at "sweet spot" altitude, the Jug was highly competitive :-)

(At least, that's how it was in the 3.x versions. With 3.5/ME, it also gained good high-speed elevator/aileron control, making it a real killer. Still not a plane for the masses, though.)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

F4UDOA · « **Reply #37 on:** September 25, 2003, 03:34:47 PM »

rshubert,

The other massive problem with the P-38 in Europe was the poor cockpit heating that caused pilots to basically freeze on long missions.

Remember this mission is 18,000FT over Europe against 109's and 190's.

What advantage would the P-38 have over those A/C at that alt? Maybe climb over the 190A plus horizontal turning. It would not be faster by any margin and could not dive away.

If my life depended on it in Europe it would be depending on the year.

1942- P-47C
1943- P-47D-5
1944- P-51B
1945- P-51D

I would say the Spit IX in 1942 but the Spit couldn't fly over Germany so the point is moot.

Oldman731 · « **Reply #38 on:** September 25, 2003, 03:45:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
If any plane was to be credited for winning the air war in Europe, I'd put my money on the Spitfire. It was there when the tide shifted, - it had been there for 3 years and the LW had fallen back in that time.

Disagree. Spit couldn't carry the war to Germany. West front German losses didn't start getting serious until late fall of 1943, and it wasn't the spit that was causing them.

- oldman

HoHun · « **Reply #39 on:** September 25, 2003, 03:52:15 PM »

Hi Angus,

>If any plane was to be credited for winning the air war in Europe, I'd put my money on the Spitfire. It was there when the tide shifted, - it had been there for 3 years and the LW had fallen back in that time.

Ironically, 3 years into the war, the Luftwaffe had the Focke-Wulf out that gave the Spits a very rough time :-)

But your point about attrition is excellent - the Luftwaffe wasn't defeated by a single type, but by years of continous losses, ranging from light to moderate mostly and only seldom to heavy.

The Luftwaffe still had considerable fighting strength in July 1944 (wasted by the move into unprepared and bombed-out airfields in France where the Allies held air superiority), they still inflicted serious losses on the bombers until the autumn of 1944, and they still had large reserves on 1/1/1945 when they wasted them in another operational blunder.

So which type won the air war? Hard to say!

The P-51 certainly was the fighter which held down the Luftwaffe once Allied air superiority had been established, and instead of picking a war-winning fighter, I'll just point out that this was more important for the big picture than many people seem to think! :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

icemaw · « **Reply #40 on:** September 25, 2003, 04:29:52 PM »

With my life on the line and ground target to strafe. My plane of choice would most definately be the jug. It had the fire power speed radial engine and pilot protection. Anyone foolish enough to want to attack ground target in a water cooled aircraft deserves the long walk home after some farmer with a flint lock gets a lucky hit on hit on their cooling system.

Give me that big radial that will keep on turning with massive damage and still get me home.

Wadke · « **Reply #41 on:** September 25, 2003, 10:03:51 PM »

P-47 (D-11 with Paddle Blade prop pls)

Widewing · « **Reply #42 on:** September 26, 2003, 12:30:01 AM »

Talking about survivability....The pilot walked away.

This unfortunate P-47 was the victim of a 500 pound bomb which fell from its fuselage shackle and exploded. The pilot, Lt. Hallberg had been unable to release the bomb and was forced to land with it. Somehow, the safetywire preventing the fusing vanes from turning had broken. The result was that the bomb had armed. As Hallberg taxied across the rutted field, the demolition bomb fell off and detonated. Amazingly, the Lt. Hallberg suffered only minor injuries and was flying again within days, albeit with the radio volume turned up considerably. If there was ever a testimony to the ruggedness of the Thunderbolt, this incident is proof positive.

My regards,

Widewing

icemaw · « **Reply #43 on:** September 26, 2003, 12:33:55 AM »

Just a red x widewing

Thrawn · « **Reply #44 on:** September 26, 2003, 02:35:59 AM »

Spit XVI or Tempest.