Q: What's the difference between a sportsman and a criminal?

[type_char]

Dune,

I agree with what you said up till you said, is one more deadly than the other, no.

Some guns are more deadly than others. I grew up during the times when Arms amd Ammo and other REAL gun magazines were prevalent. Im confortable with the notion that guns could be in my life, I've just chosen to not own a gun till now. Im looking for a new hobby, a challenging one and shooting stuff at the range is challenging. And yes, I have shot some ar-15s, shotguns, and HKs in the past when they were still legal around here. And yes, they are fun to shoot, even in semi auto. Some guns are more dangerous than others as are some people. Are you dangerous, I dont know you but you own an UZI so I know youre probably trigger happy.

[Dune]

Actually, I think I said not necsasirly (sp)

Originally posted by type_char
I dont know you but you own an UZI so I know youre probably trigger happy.

Answer to A:

It has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department. Machine guns are subject to a $200 tax every time their ownership changes from one federally registered owner to another, and each new weapon is subject to a manufacturing tax when it is made, and it must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) in its National Firearms Registry.

To become a registered owner, a complete FBI background investigation is conducted, checking for any criminal history or tendencies toward violence, and an application must be submitted to the BATF including two sets of fingerprints, a recent photo, a sworn affidavit that transfer of the NFA firearm is of "reasonable necessity," and that sale to and possession of the weapon by the applicant "would be consistent with public safety." The application form also requires the signature of a chief law enforcement officer with jurisdiction in the applicant's residence.

Since the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19, 1986, ownership of newly manufactured machine guns has been prohibited to civilians. Machine guns which were manufactured prior to the Act's passage are regulated under the National Firearms Act, but those manufactured after the ban cannot ordinarily be sold to or owned by civilians.

And to B:  Yes, unless I'm shooting for score  

[Shuckins]

On the issue of the availability of firearms making suicide more likely I would like to offer the following observations.

I teach school in a small community of approximately 500 people.  In the last ten years, there have been several suicides.  Two were middle-aged women who overdosed.  One was a young man who hanged himself.  Another, upon being diagnosed with cancer for the second time in his young life (25), plugged the cracks in his bedroom windows and under his door, drank paint thinner, slashed his wrists, and shot himself.  Still another, who had a history of mental disturbance, attempted suicide on three separat occasions, slashing her wrists, taking an overdose, and, finally, shooting herself.  Then there was a husband and father who shot himself after an argument with his wife.  Lastly, a former student of mine, depressed and strung out on drugs, had an argument with his wife and shot himself.

All of these attempted suicides were successful.  These people used several different methods to achieve their goals.  Even those with guns would have found a way in the weapon had not been available.

Regards, Shuckins

[Curval]

Originally posted by Dune
Crime and gun crime are not the fault of the guns.  They are the fault of the criminal who uses a gun as a tool to commit the crime.

Poor, poor guns.  So maligned, so misunderstood.

[mauser]

Originally posted by Mini D
...
BTW mauser... that article was a bit screwy and the responses were just as grand.  ".308 is a rifle... .223 is a carbine" or... "I think carbine has more to do with barrel length."

MiniD [/B]

Yep, the article that was the first post of that thread was screwy, just as the responses showed.  I didn't have the time to cut and paste in the responses from the officers that replied, which is what I wanted to show.  As for some of the other replies like the ones you quoted, well, it is a BBS .

mauser

[type_char]

When I was about 10 or 11 years old, I got my arse beat up by a 6 foot 5 something man. Yep he beat my arse to a pulp, though I never passed out or fell on the ground. I took it real good then I walked home. Me and some friends were lighting firecrackers on his street. It was the 4th of July so alot of stuff was going off here and there. He came out of his house and cursed at us and said, get the f*k off my street you f*king n*. So we lit a few more then ran like hell. While on another street, feeling like we got away, I was bounced by this guy and he beat the crap out of me while calling cursing at me, n*,f*king little n*s. When I got home, I told my father, he called the cops. My father never sued him cause he was afraid of retribution from this crazy jerk. I sort of lost repect for my father after that. Anyways the point here is that I was so angry, if I had a gun, I probbaly would have walked back over there and shot his arse.  I think thats the number 1 reason why I chose not to own a gun as I became an adult because I know better. However its been a very long time since that happened and I've learned alot of self restraint. I am saving up for a sig, then next I want a Bren Ten or at leat a colt 10mm. Um, yum. And definately a Glock of some sort.

[lazs2]

Ok... the "arms race"... the arms race between the cops and the crooks is more about stopping power than anything else.   Handguns are not perfect stoppers... they run from 25-96% 1 torso hit stops.  

The cpos used to use 38 specials and a lot of cops were killed after they shot the bad guy.   they were stabbed, bluedguened, run over or shot...

Enter the 357 mag.. all hail the king of handgun stopping power... 96% with the right loads...  bad guys expire or at least stop being mean.    

Problem... most people, including cops can't seem to master the 357... some of this is perception based on unrealistic testing (people actually did better in gunfights than on paper)... heavy recoil... high muzzle flash.  What to do?

Back to the old .45  acp... same problem... people have trouble with the recoil...

enter the high capacity 9mm... no recoil.. but.. with service loads not much better stopper than the 38 and... with the drug population... bad guys are soaking up a lot of 9mm ammo without expireing or ceasing to do mean things.

enter 40 smith and wesson and AR 223... perfect.

enter hydra shok and other types of sophisticated ammo.... back to square one.   Most everything works now... pick what ya like.

The good thing about autoloaders for cops is that with multiple bad guys... you have a lot of rounds in the gun and fast access to a lot more.    Bad thing is.... everyone shoots more for less result.

2.5 shots per fite for revolvers
2.7 for 45acp
5.5 for 9mm

As for protection in the home..  works for me but.... what's more important is it works for you... just me having a gun makes you safer.    In the U.S crooks don't like to hit homes with people in em because of the possibility of an armed homeowner.   I am your deterent.

Certainly alarms and prison bars on your home will work as will guards with metal detectors.   they will not guarantee but will deter.   Personally... I like to take a more active role in mine or my families protection.
lazs

[lazs2]

Oh... curval.  If I asked what type of semi automatic 223 with high capacity mag I should buy, the cops I know would say... "I don't know that much about guns but this AR seems pretty good."   I have never heard a cop say that he was afraid of citizens with assault rifles.

deja... I get the same feeling about gofaster... he seems to think he is laying some kind of trap but I still haven't seen hjis point.   He just seems like every other "ban em all" guy... he knows nothing about em except that they have potential for evil and he feels that the best way to get rid of guns as a whole is to do it incrimentally "surely you don't need (place gun of the month in this spot) to (place hobby of the month here)?"  

90% or so of all people murdered are murdered by someone they know.  Most people who kill themselves with a firearm do it at home... Keep this in mind when you read the statement that you are more likely to kill yourself or someone you know with a firearm.    The woman who has shoots her estranged husband as he breaks down the front door..who has a restraining order because he beat her half to death a dozen times in the past...

most cops see the crap that we don't sitting here in front of the glowing monitor.... that's why they say "get a gun and learn how to use it properly"

lazs

[capt. apathy]

When I was about 10 or 11 years old, I got my arse beat up by a 6 foot 5 something man. Yep he beat my arse to a pulp, though I never passed out or fell on the ground. I took it real good then I walked home. Me and some friends were lighting firecrackers on his street. It was the 4th of July so alot of stuff was going off here and there. He came out of his house and cursed at us and said, get the f*k off my street you f*king n*. So we lit a few more then ran like hell. While on another street, feeling like we got away, I was bounced by this guy and he beat the crap out of me while calling cursing at me, n*,f*king little n*s. When I got home, I told my father, he called the cops. My father never sued him cause he was afraid of retribution from this crazy jerk. I sort of lost repect for my father after that. Anyways the point here is that I was so angry, if I had a gun, I probbaly would have walked back over there and shot his arse. I think thats the number 1 reason why I chose not to own a gun as I became an adult because I know better. However its been a very long time since that happened and I've learned alot of self restraint. I am saving up for a sig, then next I want a Bren Ten or at leat a colt 10mm. Um, yum. And definately a Glock of some sort.

which is why we don't let 10 & 11 year olds go buy guns.

[Curval]

Originally posted by lazs2
I have never heard a cop say that he was afraid of citizens with assault rifles.

 

Have any of them been shot at by one?  That would be the "kicker".  

I know very little about handguns, but I have shot Mini Rugers,M16s, and even a GPMG (general purpose machine gun...British Army issue).  I have seen what the rounds do to various types of targets, including concrete block.  It is a very good reminder of one's own fragile mortality.

[capt. apathy]

Have any of them been shot at by one? That would be the "kicker".

again though the thing is the definition of "asault rifle".  it has nothing to do with the power of the round, rate of fire, acuracy, or anything really relivant to the use/power of the gun.  it is based more on the look of the stock than the action.

the term "asault rifle" deffines a feeling people who know nothing about guns get when they see it.  it's just another example of how our society in general is moving to put apearance over substance.

when I was a kid I hunted with an old bolt-action springfield .30-06.  not an "asault rifle" by any deffinition.  

if I had someone taking shots at me I'd rather he had an sks or the like than that old springfield.  with the springfield odds are he'd hit me.

[Mini D]

I asked this question before and I'll ask it again:  What kind of gun is it OK to be shot with?

Curval, you're limited experience with firearms has aparently taught you very little.  A .223 is not a very destructive round.  It is simply a riffle round.  Most other riffle rounds are more destructive.  But... when you decide to say what kind of "destruction" weapons are capable of, you mention only "assault" riffles.  It's pretty typical these days.

Of course, most people are capable of recognizing that being shot at reflects poorly on the person doing the shooting, not the weapon being used.

MiniD

[Curval]

I have no idea what a .223 round would do to a human body.  

An assault rifle would have to be at least a 5.56mm round in my opinion...a military weapon.  That would be my definition of an assault rifle and this caliber is the only type of weapon I have fired.

The GPMG was 7.62mm and would break apart the concrete blocks with ease.

Should they be readily availiable on the market too?  Not too good for hunting...but really good at scattering civilians and police officers.

[Mini D]

There is no reason they shouldn't.  Automatic firing weapons have been heavily regulated for some time in the U.S... and they seldomely show on the radar for gun statistics so they are pretty much a moot point.

After that... it doesn't matter what the gun is, the effect is the same... no matter what people try to tell you .  Once you start with "it's this gun" and get people to buy off on it, you then have a clear path to "well... this gun has every bit the destructive power..."

You say there is no reason to have those weapons and I maintain there is no reason to ban them.  One is the view of someone that never had a right not really understanding what it means, the other is the view of someone seeing a constant gradual assault on a right that they've had all their lives.

MiniD

[Curval]

I remember watching a news event where two bank robbers with significant body armour got involved in a shoot out with police in the US.  The rounds the cops were firing were useless against these guys and they were armed to the teeth with assault rifles.

I also remember the frustration and anger reported by the officers involved in the event when interviewed afterwards.

I suggest you chat with them about the issue..it's no skin off my nose...you live there and I live here.  I just hope when I'm visiting the US something like that doesn't happen anywhere near me.