Buff guns - proposal

[Fariz]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
Actually, to kill effectively a buff you need the surprise factor, a tremendous energy advantage, or a wingman.

A bit of brains in your head normally enough.  

 

If the buff driver is average or above average, no matter what you do, you'll be killed or severely damaged more than 80% of the times, unless you fly HogC, Tempest or Typhoon (all of them hispano armed planes).
[/QB]

I fly YakU, bad punch, low ammo load:

Tour 18 stats:

Against b17 -- 10/0 (2 in La7, 1 in hogc (vulching obviously), 7 in yakU).
Against lanc -- 11/0 (1 in La7, 1 in ostwind, 9 in yakU)

My math is terrible, but still enough to understand, that it is far away from 80%  

If you who say it is impossible to fight against buffs effectivly will spend half of the time you spent posting those "UBER GUNS" posts to watch your films and find a working tactics against buffs -- you will not need to post it at all.  

Fariz

[MANDOBLE]

Originally posted by Replicant:
 You're saying that it's too much concessions for a single player?

Yep, lasser bomb precission and buff defenses are too much concessions for a mission done by a single player in a single buff able to nuke a base.

In the other hand, I see no concessions for C47 or M3, they seem good modeled to me.

 

Originally posted by Replicant:
Sigh, I've seen it all now.  I've seen single fighters close bases before too....

Me too but with a lot of work, luck and risk.

Fariz, personal examples like your own score means nothing. Any dedicated buff pilot could come here and show similar staticstics in the buff side. If I'm lucky enough to have a favorable K/D ratio against buff means also nothing.

Actually, K/D ratio of all models vs B17 is only 1.38, K/D of all models vs N1K2 is 0.9, that means that B17 is a killing machine almost as efficient as the N1K2.

[Westy MOL]

Maybe I've been flying too long but I drool whenever I see a bomber now. Any bomber I see as easy meat. The B17 is trickier than the others because of all the guns but it just means I have to handle the joystick just a little more. About the same as coming in for a landing but a hell of a lot less than if I was flying against another fighter though, that's for sure.
 
 Westy

[Creamo]

Whats the reason again for not having more than 1 guy in your bomber?

Also, since the formations in WWII dropped when the lead bomber did, what's the argument for not having laser guided bombs, but rather AI to fly with you? Say like a wing of 4 bombers, 1 piloted, 3 AI.

Seems like you would just spawn into the surviving bombers when you got killed. With reduced accuracy, you would need more bombers, it would be a hell of alot of fun carpet bombing, not to mention the effects, and at the same time guns could be turned WAY down.

AI ack works fairly well, I dont mind it, but I know guys from WBS hated AI gunners in the buffs. Oto or something like that. How come?

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]

[Fariz]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:


Fariz, personal examples like your own score means nothing. Any dedicated buff pilot could come here and show similar staticstics in the buff side. If I'm lucky enough to have a favorable K/D ratio against buff means also nothing.

It does, it shows that with correct tactics and patience buffs are easy to be killed even if you does fly plane with one of the worst punch in the game. You said "hispanos" and "80%", I said "shvak" and "0%" and posted stats.

If I can do it, anyone can. Let be honest, if I will fly equal plane on equal terms against you, or AKNimitz, I will be dead 8 of 10. So use your skills and brains, and burn buffs regularly, that is it.

I never say that buff guns strength is realistic, as it is now. I think it is uber. And it is one of the game compromises I consider beeing correct, see above why. I love to kill b17 when they are at 15k, not at 35k. Let me remind you what it was when guns were the way they shall be -- beeing alone buff at 20k was 100% death, 100% time. It sounds strange, but better guns made buffs more vulnerable, because majority of them are flying now in the zone where they can be killed. I remember what it takes to attack buff formation at 30k, no, thanks, I prefer to have them at 15k as it is now.

The day when AH crowd will be more organized to fly big formations of buffs regularly I will be first to vote to tune guns down. Right now I consider doing it the wrong decision.

Fariz

[ET]

Wow ,thats a buff ahead of me.Big fat cow.Another easy kill.Right on his six.2.0 out.He can't see me.1.5 out now and he hasn't even tried to turn.Duck soup.Now I'm 1.2 and boring in for the kill,Dang I'm dead.Those buff guns are overmodeled.Its not fair.Those buff drivers are too stupid to kill an ace like me.
And many thanks to you really good buff killers out there who defended buff guns and
explained about the strategy of attacking buffs.I know most of your names,having been killed by you quite often.

[lazs1]

Ive said it before... buffs have too much impact on the other players.   The phony lazer bombing is too easy so that any attention starved no skill can suicide bomb a field into uslesness.   Sure... he willdie but he's allready ruined it for a dozen guys.    

urchin makes a good point also... At the very least, the guns on the buffs should have realistic aiming and not be able to shoot through their own plane.

As for attacking buffs?   Sure, you can get em but if you are careful and do it tight then.... It is all for nothing,   They have allready dropped bombs and are planning for the next fite they can spoil.   I'ts no fun killing em as they are are a joke but if you do kill em it is only for thesake of them not spoiling a fite.   To me they are just AI jokes.   Seeing a lone suicide buff over your field... the one that is close to the action and where everyone is having fun is... disgusting.
lazs

[rosco-]

Funked put up 2 buff with escort missions this week. first mission 6 launched and 1 made it back. second mission 6 or 7 launched and 2 made it back. This was with escort.

 What you guys are saying is you want it so there is no chance of a buff rtbing? Stop whineing and do some of that pilot toejam.

  You guys are funny.

[Baine]

I just started playing AH three days ago, so maybe I shouldn't comment, but my first two kills were buffs, a Lancaster and a 17. One in a Niki, the other in a .50-cal F-4U.
I thought it was easy. I was wrong. I've since found out that killing buffs is hard, dangerous work.
But if I can get two early on then these things aren't indestructable or overgunned _ unless you fly against someone who knows what they are doing.

[minus]

/ i asking for the  1.3  range reduction but  not directly !!!  make the guns Shake a litle  it will complicate long range snipering    /reduce ruder input in guner position how can buff flat turn at 20 k is ridiculous reduce it  to half  and it looks alreadt beter and  make the buffs mushy when going above 20 k and at 30 k make them drop altitude hardly if they begin jink on ruder guner turn

 i cant get higher a 190a8 full + rm21 rocket like 33 K  !!!!!
 and buffs sometime goin at 35 k   and they ar very fast high up

and how about adjust JU88 peeshoters ???????   all you buff defenser  what u thing ju88 not need some chance  for survive ??  

[minus]

rosco and how many fighter  died to get down those bufs ??????????

 20 ? or more ?

 in CT  4  b 26 kiled around 14  Lw planes

 tactical atack was imposible  buff was to fast and high only way to stop them was sucide run


fariz yes you can kill easy a buff  if some country man will die at your place and u profit on him but  try it only  1 vs 1  when guns waiting your clever atack

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: minus ]

[CJ]

As for buffs, one thing that i notice, especially when attacking the JU-88 and the Lanc, is that my frame rate drops to 3-6 fps.  When I'm doing a high deflection shot, it makes the shot pure guesswork.  I have about 3 frames to try to "walk" the bullets into the aircraft before I'm past it.  Talk about erratic gunnery!  This makes killing bombers sort of difficult, but I can imagine without the frame rate hit, it wouldn't be nearly so bad.  

Could it be that many others are suffering from the same problem, and just don't know it yet?  

That being said, when I do die from buffs, it's usually beause I do something careless and give them a good shot.  Sometimes I do a pop up attack on B-26's and Lancs.  If you can kill them in that one high deflection shot, you're usually ok if you roll off and get out of their sights as quickly as possible.  Problem is, I get greedy and try to stick around sometimes when I miss  

CJ

[EDO43]

Don't we have the Ta-152?  I think I've flown at least one or two of them 190-lookin-fat tail havin-high altitude flyin-30mm shootin-long wing liftin-pressurized environment bein-luftwobble originatin-SOB's  

[rosco-]

Originally posted by minus:
rosco and how many fighter  died to get down those bufs ??????????

 20 ? or more ?

 [ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: minus ]

 I saw 4 that i know of get through the escorts. ill check my film.

[aknimitz]

Geez guys - this post was not intended as a "BUFF GUNS UBER" post - I simply was wondering what other people that about them.  

I have no problems killing lancasters if I am careful.  However, B17's have no blindspot with all those guns.  Even if you pick the right angle, and have speed, etc. sometimes I find it difficult.  Fariz, I would love to hear any tactics that you employ to gain such a high success rate - truly!  

Nim