Author Topic: Buff guns - proposal  (Read 731 times)

Offline rosco-

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Buff guns - proposal
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2001, 12:18:00 PM »
Just checked film, 2 190s and 2 109s got within icon range of the buffs. "on film its D6"  4 planes died as a result of buff guns, not 20  :) 1 buff discoed for sure so  4 or 5 buffs died due to gunfire.

BTW Everyone of them including you minus dead 6'd us.

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: rosco- ]

Offline AN

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Buff guns - proposal
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2001, 12:25:00 PM »
I was at 8,000 feet and still climbing in and out of gray soggy rain clouds.  Below yawned a dark blue-gray void and somewhere at its bottom the sea.  Suddenly an aircraft appeared out of the cloud above, going the other way.  A Dornier 17!  Through the miracle of radar we had met in a cloud.

I wheeled my Hurricane around, craning my head backward, my eyes riveted on the Dornier.  It must not escape.  My only hope of not being spotted was to keep directly underneath, stalking and climbing until I could draw level astern and in range.  It was my only hope of getting in a decisive burst of fire before being seen.

The going was bad that morning.  I felt enormously visible and could only dimly see the Dornier through my rain-washed windscreen.  I opened up the hood and slanted my head out into the battering slipstream.  It helped a bit.  Another hundred yards and I would have to risk a pot shot.


After leaving Arras-St. Leger, Dornier Gustav Marie headed out over the North Sea, toward England.  "The nearer we came to the English coast," said Werner Borner, "the lower the clouds.  Heavy rain pattered on the cabin windows.  There was no 'trade' to be seen."  All the same, Werner Borner was keeping a sharp lookout.  He had the best view astern, and the lives of his crew depended on him.

Then through a break in the cloud he saw the English coast.  "Looks a bit like Schleswig-Holstein," said someone.  Another voice on the intercom complained, "What a bind having to fly in weather like this."  They were forbidden to bomb the mainland by day.  Vaguely they had heard that it was to avoid upsetting the Fuehrer's peace plans.  But they flew inland for some "aerial sightseeing."

Over Lowestoft, Gonzow decided to bomb the shipping lying in the horbor.  Feldwebel Lohrer opened the bomb doors and down went ten 100-pound bombs.  Then Gonzow turned Gustav Marie south for home and the whole crew began singing, "Goodbye Johnny . . ."  They were still singing a few minutes later when there came a yell in the intercom of "Achtung, Jaeger!"  Werner Borner had seen me.

He grabbed his MG 15 and opened fire.  His bright red tracer came darting toward me and I remember thinking, "It's too early to fire."  I had to get closer.  Then I pressed the tit and things warmed up inside the Dornier.  "Pieces of metal and other fragments were flying everywhere," said Werner.  One of the ammunition drums was hit and bounced onto Werner's knees.  Then Leutnant Bernschein, on the starboard rear gun, was hit in the head and fell onto the floor of the cabin.  A second later Feldwebel Lohrer collapsed on top of him, wounded in the head and throat.  Blood was everywhere.

Only Werner was left to shoot it out with me.  As he reached for a new drum of ammunition there was a violent explosion just above his head, and he saw three fragments whip past pilot Gonzow's head, missing it by a fraction and smashing the windscreen.  Unscathed, Gonzow flew on but Werner now felt blood trickling down his cheeks.  "I took no notice--things were too hot.  With a last effort I shot at the Hurricane, which was so close I could see the pilot.  I shall never forget that sight of yellow-orange flashes from its guns crisscrossing with the incendiary and tracer from my own guns--all of it silhouetted against a ghostly-looking bank of dark thunderclouds.  Then my gun was knocked out of my hands."

But not before Borner had used it to good effect.  I was still firing when suddenly there was a bright orange explosion in the cockpit in front of me.  I suppose I must have kept firing a second longer--those last bullets knocked Borner's gun from his hands.  When I borke away Borner saw my Hurricane diving down, trailing a plume of black smoke.  A moment later Gustav Marie was swallowed up in the clouds.

The cabin of the Dornier was a shambles.  "bits and pieces everywhere, blood-covered faces, the smell of cordite, all windoes shot up.  There were hits everywhere: in the wings, in the fuselage, and in the engine.  But what a surprise: no one was really seriously wounded and our good old Gustav Marie was still flying!"

That was more than could be said for my Hurricane VY-K.  The engine was hit.  Powerless, I could only glide down through the rain clouds.  I called Kiwi One, the ground station: "Wagon leader calling.  Am hit and bailing out in the sea.  One, two, three, four, five.  Take a fix if you can."  Then I was clear of cloud and the sea opened up below--twenty miles to England, two hundred to the other side.  Not a ship in sight.  Peering below, I banked my airplane steeply to left and to right.  Then below my right wing a little ship appeared.  It looked like a toy, as if someone had put it there at that moment.

--from 'Duel of Eagles' by Peter Townsend

One of the best books I've ever read.

anRky

Offline qts

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Buff guns - proposal
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2001, 01:23:00 PM »
Just a thought, but there seems to be widespread disagreement. Is it possible that the difficult buffs are those where one player is piloting and another manning the guns?

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2001, 01:44:00 PM »
How about....

Increased buff tuff, and turn down them guns just abit...


SKurj

Offline Fariz

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Buff guns - proposal
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2001, 02:24:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by aknimitz:
I have no problems killing lancasters if I am careful.  However, B17's have no blindspot with all those guns.  Even if you pick the right angle, and have speed, etc. sometimes I find it difficult.  Fariz, I would love to hear any tactics that you employ to gain such a high success rate - truly!  
Nim

Really depends on situation and buff. Do not think I invented anything special, just adjusting tactics to situation.

I have no AH account now, but going to be back soon. Will film some buff hunting and send you or post at the bbs.

Fariz

Offline Fariz

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Buff guns - proposal
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2001, 02:39:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by minus:
fariz yes you can kill easy a buff  if some country man will die at your place and u profit on him but  try it only  1 vs 1  when guns waiting your clever atack
[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: minus ]

Minus, if you let someone to go after buff while you flying YakU, he will get a kill, you will get an assist. So next guess please  :)

Why not to try once -- you will get b17, I will get YakU 10 times in the dueling arena -- no country mates, simply 1vs1. And then lets count the result. Must be fun anyway.

Fariz

Offline MiG Eater

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Buff guns - proposal
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2001, 02:39:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta:
One suggestion:
Disable rudder turning when the pilot is in the gunner position.

Amen. Take away the ability to fire through the airframe and better, less gamey, gameplay will result.

MiG

Offline NHMadmax

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Buff guns - proposal
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2001, 04:13:00 PM »
  ... I say keep the same stop them from shooting past airframe. Nearly allways get killed in Buff so its not the guns its the operator and the guy who is doing the shooting. that gets you      

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: NHMadmax ]

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2001, 04:23:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta:
One suggestion:
Disable rudder turning when the pilot is in the gunner position.

And take away the Lancaster's historical (at least a semblance of it) defense?

When the tail gunner in a Lanc spotted an enemy fighter he would instruct the pilot to do a corkscrew maneuver in one direction or the other.  The corkscrew was a tight diving turn that then becomes a tight turning climb.  While the maneuver happened, the tail gunner would blaze away at the enemy.
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Offline Tac

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« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2001, 04:26:00 PM »
Yep, just get straight above a lanc or b17 and film it... see how many tracers come up your way from the buff. You will see MORE than the 2 that can only be tracking you (top turret). You will see 8 of them (top, ball, tail, nose)....and all of them aimed at the exact same MF spot.


Just fix the fire through airframe bug, introduce gun shake on buff gunners (which should be a REAL BAD shake, the human body is NOT a stable gun platform) and make the other guns NOT converge on the same exact spot as the one the human gunner is aiming at... give each gun a 10 degree cone from where the human gunner is aiming in which the other guns will fire at random.

This not only makes the guns on the buffs fair, but also gives the buff gunner a much higher chance of scoring hits on a manouvering fighter. And they will NOT be single ping kill hits either.

Offline hitech

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« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2001, 04:43:00 PM »
Tac what you see when beeing shot at is not what is being fired on the buffs FE.

HiTech

Offline Tac

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« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2001, 06:06:00 PM »
Ok, NOW im verra confused.   :confused:

While I have the chance, how much Cragganmore for a P-61?  ;)  :D

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2001, 09:45:00 PM »
I don't doubt for a second that the is true Hitech.  However, I fly the B17- and I CAN tell whats being fired from the bomber on my FE.  The ball turret can fire through the entire plane- basically, see my post above for the odd things I've noticed about the guns.  Every single one of those was noted with ME firing the guns in offline mode- not with some guy  shooting at me while I was trying to gun down his B17.

Also- Fariz, I wouldn't mind seeing film of you taking down a B17 with the Yak-9U.  I can't do it in the Dora, and that has twice the firepower.

Offline Creamo

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Buff guns - proposal
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2002, 09:11:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Creamo
Whats the reason again for not having more than 1 guy in your bomber?

Also, since the formations in WWII dropped when the lead bomber did, what's the argument for not having laser guided bombs, but rather AI to fly with you? Say like a wing of 4 bombers, 1 piloted, 3 AI.

Seems like you would just spawn into the surviving bombers when you got killed. With reduced accuracy, you would need more bombers, it would be a hell of alot of fun carpet bombing, not to mention the effects, and at the same time guns could be turned WAY down.

AI ack works fairly well, I dont mind it, but I know guys from WBS hated AI gunners in the buffs. Oto or something like that. How come?




I want royalties if this works.

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2002, 11:44:14 AM »
Creamo.  Give me 6 numbers from 1 to 53 please, and no repeats.   No later than tomorrow.  :D
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.