Serious question on tanking in AH

[Ouch]

If the tank captain is UP in the turret, firing on enemy aircraft, is that openeing modeled?  Could that be how some tanks keep "dieing" from 50 calliber rounds?

HT or someone in the know, what say you?

Ouch out

[medicboy]

50 cal rounds would go through the top of panzers but not tigers.

[ALF]

Another common practice amoung america fighter pilots who lacked cannons, was to bounce the bullets off the ground, and into the soft underbelly.  Worked best on hard roads of course, but was a very common tactic.

[MetaTron]

Dont believe everything you read ALF. Im sure airmen reported this, but it cant be true. The .50 cal in particular, but ammunition as a whole regardless, hug the ground when they ricochet. It is possible that airmen saw tank crews abandon the vehicle when they attacked and counted it as destroyed, or they somehow lit the things off with incendiary rounds hitting fuel vapors (tanks leaked and thats a fact), but no way could a .50 bounce off a road and still carry enough energy to penetrate armor plate.

I have never had that misfortune Ouch. I have shot down as many as ten planes from the pintle in one sortie, taken hits from .50s and 20mms, but if they could kill you then why havent we heard of a wounded driver or commander?

[moot]

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97126

[Glint]

Originally posted by MetaTron
but ammunition as a whole regardless, hug the ground when they ricochet.

Fact is that ammunition can travel as much as 12 inches once it ricochets at a 45 degree angle.  I don't know what kind of critical parts of a tank that would be that low. So I would have to guess that in a real life situation any ricochets would not damage the tank. Any tank commanders out there to clarify this?



“Never argue with an idiot!
They'll bring you down to their level
and beat you with experience.”

[Furious]

Originally posted by ALF
Another common practice amoung america fighter pilots who lacked cannons, was to bounce the bullets off the ground, and into the soft underbelly.  Worked best on hard roads of course, but was a very common tactic.

I always did love this topic.  It's too much fun.  Why would anyone believe that a bullet would richochet off the road and then penetrate hardened steel?  If the bullet can't penetrate the asphalt, how is it ever gonna get throught the armour?

[Glint]

Originally posted by Furious
If the bullet can't penetrate the asphalt, how is it ever gonna get throught the armour?

Bullets are a funny thing. A short but true story. A New Jersey State Trooper was following a pick up truck believed to have been used in a felony. The truck pulled into a dirt driveway that lead up to an abandon house with a circular driveway by the house. The driver of the truck stopped abruptly and shifted into reverse and then rammed the Trooper car. This trapped the Trooper inside of the car as the driver exited his truck. The driver was armed with a shot gun and approached the Trooper. The trooper was able to get his sidearm out and fire several rounds before the driver of the truck fatality shot the Trooper. Upon investigating there were bullet holes in the hood of the Troopers car. It was concluded that the holes were made from the troopers gun when he shot through the windshield. The bullets hit the windshield and were deflected into the hood instead of hitting it's intended target.
     So never under estimate what a bullet will do when it hits an object at any given angle.




“Never argue with an idiot!
They'll bring you down to their level
and beat you with experience.”

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Ouch
If the tank captain is UP in the turret, firing on enemy aircraft, is that openeing modeled?  

The easy answer is... "It's a FLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIM!"<<< or was.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Furious
I always did love this topic.  It's too much fun.  Why would anyone believe that a bullet would richochet off the road and then penetrate hardened steel?  If the bullet can't penetrate the asphalt, how is it ever gonna get throught the armour?

It's all in the math Furious.  Even modern 2000lbs bombs will easily "skip" at angle far less steep than you'd imagine.  Not only that, even at steep angles (given the right hardness of what it's hitting), they will penetrate then arc back out of the ground if they don't detonate first.  When I was a kid... we used to target practice with .22's all the time.  I've seen a few bounce off pond water.  It's all in the math.... hardness of projectile, hardness of target, speed/velocity etc etc.  Wierder things have happened.

[Kweassa]

Tank bottoms, are everybit as armoured as sides or tops.

 If a bullet can't penetrate it with a direct hit, it certainly will not penetrate it by ricocheting against a hard substance first.

 If the angle of the bullet striking the ground is shallow enough to bounce a bullet on asphalt, then the angle of that same bullet hitting the tank bottom after a ricochet, is exactly same as the first bounce angle which caused the ricochet. If a bullet will ricochet against asphalt, then it will ricochet off an armoured tank belly.

[Shane]

just face it... german armor sucked.

[Furball]

What amazes me is that someone would be sitting in the hatch, shooting at aircraft that are strafing him with a machine gun.

The pintle gunner should be very vunerable to getting injured or killed.  At the moment its stupid that you cant damage or destroy the 'remote control' pintle gun.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Tank bottoms, are everybit as armoured as sides or tops.

No... they're not.

Panzer IV Type H data:

Armor Thickness (mm)

Hull Front, Upper: 80@10°
Hull Front, Lower: 80@14°
Hull Sides, Upper: 30@0°
Hull Sides, Lower: 30@0°
Hull Rear             : 20@8° & 11°
Hull Top               : 12@85°-90°
Hull Bottom         : 10@90°
Turret Front        : 50@10 Mantlet: 50@0°-30°
Turret Sides        : 30@25°
Turret Rear         : 30@15°
Turret Top          : 15@84°-90°

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/germany/pzkpfw_iv.html

A modern (ok so they really aren't all that modern) M2 Machine gun can penetrate 19mm at 500m, and 10mm at 1200mm.

I'd say it's very likely the tactic mentioned was entirely possible.. besides, I read the article once somewhere or another.

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Tumor
Even modern 2000lbs bombs will easily "skip" at angle far less steep than you'd imagine.  Not only that, even at steep angles (given the right hardness of what it's hitting), they will penetrate then arc back out of the ground if they don't detonate first.  

Thats true. I have witnessed it myself at Avon Park, Fla.  I was TDY  there and my job as part of a 6 man crew was to pick up the Nuke shapes after the F-16's dropped them. While I was there I witnesses some other AC dropping some GP practice bombs.  We winessed one enter the ground and then promptly exit about 100 ft away.  It was freaky.  You guys would have liked to wander around that range and checked out all the beat up targets.  Most was old armor from previous era's, some old AC too, but they were so beat up from getting pounded all the time, they didnt look like themselves.