Questions about virtical maneuvers and AH

[hazed-]

yep F4UDOA , and i think you should be allowed to question anything you find, regardless if you have got the wrong idea and are mistaken or if you have discovered a flaw.
The BB is after all a forum for debate.Without being able to ask for help understanding things I fail to see its true purpose.
If people happen to focus on one particular aircraft it doesnt mean they are closed to all others, just they gather info more pertinant to their favourite type and thus miss out on the wider picture.I for one have read these boards and then followed up what ive read by buying books and watching programmes that explain the subject matter.It a hell of a lot of fun and i would consider it almost a seperate hobby from actually flying AH.
I would say 50% of my enjoyment has come from buying books and learning about these aircraft.
The real problem arrises in my veiw is when we post a question and people in here immediately think we have some sort of weird alterior motive other than wanting it realistic. I guess its understandable when so many posts are aimed at annoying a particular group of players that the disussions turn into slanging matches, but if you read enough you should soon work out who is honestly just pursueing a hobby.They actually enjoy just as much being proved wrong as finding out they are right.

I have seen that you post on all subjects fairly and even better you are prepared to see that we are all capable of 'noticing' a problem even though some may not have the ability to work out mathmatically what they have felt.Im glad you do what do and even better you often explain how you did it, "it makes good readin' dude" , keep it going.... hehe

[Knegel]

Hello,

for me it seems like the planes miss enginepower and on the other hand drag while strait flying.

The result is to much E-bleed and so a very fast slow down while turning.

As example: We can easy land the planes without power but full flaps in a very flat angel, and even without flaps. We nearly dont need power to keep the plane in the air, but then, if we give full power + WEP, i cant feel a real acceleration.
The acceleartion due to a dive seems to be much more powerfull than the acceleration due to the engine.
Its for sure not that bad,  but a bit more drag and power and a bit less lift would be good i think. Then the planes would accelerate faster if they are slow, but  at high speed all would be very similar like now.

Then the vertical manouvers would work better for the powerfull planes(good weight/power relation).

Greetings, Knegel

[JAWS2003]

I just checked the first training mission from the forgotten battles and they explain there some basic manouvers. the mission is flown with the Il-2 type 1, and for executing a loop they recommend 320 Km/h as the minimum required speed.  This is around 200 Mph. Judging after this the Spitfire should be able to loop with lower speed. What do you think guys?

[hitech]

F4UDOA, Do some research on sustain turn rates of airplanes. It will lead you to answereing your question about loops.

HiTech

[F4UDOA]

HT,

I understand that sustained turn rate is not the same as intantanious turn because the drag created in a max instant turn will be higher than the thrust available. Hence the aircraft can not sustain the turn.

I have the charts that show instant turns and they show the highest possible Cl max figure for that instant of the turn.

The factors for a high intant turn are

High Cl Max
High G load
Low wing loading

For sustained turn rate the two factors that I believe are missing are

High power
low drag especially Cdi

However cl max and wing loading remain important if not limiting factors.

I have the calculations for both turns although my math skills don't allow me to fully use them. However there are some drag calculators on the web that tell me enough of what I need.

I am using the stall and minimum loop entry speeds as a baseline for the different performance characteristics of individual A/C.

I am asking what conclusions if any can be drawn from that type of flight manual data.

[Wmaker]

Hi F4UDOA,

Here are some similar looping values from finnish test flight report of a Bf109G-2:

Loop starting alt: 1000m
Starting speed: 500km/h
Speed at the top of the loop: 250km/h
Radius of the loop: 1100m
Alt gained after the loop: 150m
Time used for the loop: 26,5 sec

I do agree that these values in the pilot's notes and manuals are probably mainly for doing nice, beautiful looking airshow loops.

good topic, btw.