Bouncey Planes

[Pongo]

HaHa.
I have a Logitech Wingman Extreme. The one with three 8 pos hats. I dont think I have the prob that you are describing. I can and do use zoom to target. If the bad guy is not evasive I will probably get him in one pass. I fly the FW most of the time. My only problem (other then competence) is stalling and warping. Particularly in the FW sometimes I cant figure out why I have stalled.
Hope you work it out.

[Wardog]

TT if they give us the Spit 1a ill fly it. Just cant stand the thought of flying around with those uber cannons of yours  

As for my stick,it the CH F16 Combat Stick and it just rocks. I have tryed my brothers Logitech and cant stand it.To sensitive,im not sure why but its the touchiest stick ive tryed. Think it may be digital,CH is analog..

[humble]

I suffered from "bouncing" in the beginning with AH...although it will vary from plane to plane I've found it usually relates to using the auto pilot. Usually it is a result of autoclimb setting a "nose up" trim..and extreme airleon trim..later you exert stick force to nuetralize these settings. A sudden change in stick pressure and you "bounce" the nose. I'll now trim the nose heavy and back off the airleon trim as i enter a fight. Still have lots of problems with FM but bouncing is greatly reduced in all but the 205 (FM problem I think)

 

[jedi]

The old WB model was very bouncy.  Same guys built this flight model, so...  

Anyway, there are some guys who say this way is more realistic, some who say WB current modeling is closer, but either way, there should be a way to at least minimize the bounciness.

Make sure your joystick is calibrated properly, so that full deflection of the stick is shown as full deflection in the calibration routine.  Reaching full "apparent" deflection before you reach full physical stick deflection will make the bounciness worse.

Do whatever you can to minimize spiking.  This may mean polling WITH interrupts, it may mean polling WITHOUT interrupts, try it both ways.  A good digital joystick PORT will help here (can't vouch for digital or USB sticks--haven't tried one).

Put your "dampener" sliders all the way UP.  Run your stick deflection curves way DOWN.  See what that does.  It should make the plane REAL sluggish.  Now work your way back down with the dampener until the plane moves about as you "expect" for the amount of stick deflection used.  Once you get something that feels like an airplane to you, start moving the stick deflection curve sliders back up, starting at the right side.  The goal is to be CAPABLE of full control deflection when you need it, while still maintaining fine control at high speed with small stick movements.

If you can't "create" an airplane that's WAY too twitchy at one extreme and WAY too sluggish at the other, I'd suspect either calibration or your joystick port is at fault (assuming a decent joystick to begin with of course).

--jedi

[robclark]

I have a CH Flight Stick, and no bounce, in any plane.  I think WD is right, analog (good) vs. digital (bouncy)

personally i think CH products (stick, throttle, & peddels) are good for AH if anyone is looking for some open advise

RC

[Westy]

 Ch F16 fighterstick, Pro Thottl and Pedals inot a GameCard III Auto and no bounce at all.

 (not many kills either so I must be a smooth flying drone <G> )

-Westy

[Minotaur]

I noticed that the higher the altitude the greater the bounce effect becomes.  I am starting to feel this is very accurate, but as usual I really have no clue.  

Mino

[jmccaul]

It seems to be mainly in the pitch axis and what i see happening is you pull a deflection on the stick when you lessen that deflection the plane doesn't sink smoothly and cleanly to the new deflection it oscilates around the point of the new deflection. Wheather or not this is realistic i don't know but it don't help my gunnary.

[Ice]

Alright guys.....I have the solution to your problems, however, I cannot share it with you

I will give you a clue tho....ready....here it comes....

A Hardware Device must be purchased!

If I simply spilled the beans, all could kill me faster and that would not be a good thing

Cyas Up!

Ice Out!

[HaHa]

Well a perfect example of my bounce problem can be shown even without using the stick. Take your plane (say a p51) and put it at a high climb angle, say 30degrees or so.. such that its climbing but not losing too much speeded. Then hit "x".. the plane will bounce up and down, up and down before it levels out. This is exactly what happens with my stick controls.. bounces up and down, up and down.

[Flacke]

Hi HaHa, I was wondering when someone was going to speak up and say what you have. I do not believe that the flying characteristics of the planes has anything to do with your joystick as long as it is a good functional stick. I do believe that it is the flight model that is very weird and hard to get used to. I also fly real aircraft and simulators and I have NEVER had either fly the strange way that the AH aircraft do. I am trying really hard to enjoy this sim. and I do have patience with such a new product, but I must admit that sometimes I get frustrated and just go fly ANYTHING else to get aircraft that fly in a somewhat normal fashion! Just my humble opinions but I just had to tell somebody to get it off my chest!

[chisel]

To me it flies exactly like pre 2.0 warbirds.

And Im seeing the exact same posts in this NG as used to be on AGW. "Ohh its ur stick heres the fix"

Its not the stick! its the Flight Model

Now how did they change it before? The AC were too stable or somthing like that I heard.

I dont know whats right. Never flown any kinda real plane.

Hi tech when you flew that Stang was it bouncy like this?

[Kats]

There's a thread on AGW regarding real ww2 mustang pilot who tried WB over the holiday weekend. He's said that there's too much nose bounce (that was his first impression). AH is even bouncier than WB  

It could be the travel on our j-sticks, but when I talk about nose bounce I talk about how many times the nose of the a/c passes through the axis before settling once you fereze j stick movement.

[funked]

If I were doing a simulation at work, and I saw something like that, I would check my integration algorithm.

[HaHa]

The strange thing (and I do mean strange) is that some people say.. I have no bounce I don't know what your talking about. Maddog I believe is one who posted that on the thread. It makes me wonder what is:

1) going on with the joystick code?
2) going on with these special sticks some of these people are using?

Maybe its computer speed as well? If your computer can't calculate fast enough you get a weird "oscillation" problem? I have a PII266, anyone with a machine similar to (or less than) that have no bounce problem?

One test which I posted (2-3 posts earlier) and I think is an EXCELLENT test is do the following:

- aim aircraft up (p51 say) at 30 degree angle so that it is flying at a constant speed.
- hit shift-x, let go of stick
- then hit x twice (i.e. level it without using the stick)

On my machine the plane bounces crazy like tell it finally levels off.. it actually even blacks out   and does a bunch of stall sounds as well. This is ALL without using the stick.. thus is my computer incapable of calculating fast enough? do I have some floating point error hehe  

Remember guys just because a plane flies horrible doesn't mean it's more realistic ;0

Also remember this is BETA we are suppose to be improving the flight model.


[This message has been edited by HaHa (edited 12-08-1999).]