Author Topic: They're closing my dept.  (Read 798 times)

Offline Swoop

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They're closing my dept.
« on: October 03, 2003, 02:03:07 PM »
Well.  Cost cutting.

The company I work for (big American company called AT&T, you may have heard of them) is closing the EMEA global networking 3rd line tech support desk in Holland and an existing team based in Britain is taking over the role.......my last day is the 17th of October and I'm job hunting.  See, right now I'm a contractor, been here 5 years doing the same job.


The problem is......this team in Britain has no skills whatsoever in the job.  They've had an overview from a Cloggie trainer which left many scratching heads.  Then they had two weeks technical  training from my team leader, which left them still scratching heads and all of a sudden this afternoon my manager calls me into his office and asks me if I'd be interested in a contract extension until the end of the year to go to Britain and train up the new team.  I said yes, I'm interested, make me an offer.

So.......bout 30 mins later my slavetrader (read: contracting agent) calls me up and says AT&T will pay for accommodation in Britain and in return there will be a 10% drop in the contract rate.

:eek: :rofl

I told him to stick it where the sun does not shine.


*Then* I had another meeting with the boss and here's what I told him:  Paul (cos that's his name), if I said to you that I want you to spend two months in a hotel in Portsmouth (and if I know AT&T, it'll be a real cheap hotel), away from your wife and kids, all food bills will be yours to handle and keep in mind a hotel won't have an oven or fridge/freezer in the room so you'll be eating out every night, if you want to fly home for a weekend to see your wife then it's at your own expense, at the end of it you're out of a job AND I want you take a pay cut, what would you say?  

When I said make me an offer I really didn't expected the offer to be a pay cut.  

......he's getting back to me on monday.



The situation is:  Someone in Britain has realised that in a months time AT&T is gonna be paying out thousands in broken SLAs to customers cos the new team is about as clued up as a....not very clued up thing.  I know this from various sources in the new team (what management seem to forget is that the peasants sometimes talk to each other), I also know that various strongly worded requests for some 'bloody help here' has originated from the new team.  I also know that the situation has been brought to the attention of the VP in charge of everything (um....by a mate of mine) and that he ain't happy.  

What I don't know is why anyone in their right mind would think I'd accept an offer like that when they know that I know that they're waaaaay up that creek and haven't seen a paddle in weeks.  And the boat's leaking.



On the other hand.......like, crap man, I'm out of a job!


Offline Curval

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They're closing my dept.
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2003, 02:11:16 PM »
Stand your ground matey.  They are trying to take serious advantage of you by the sounds of it.

If you have enough coin to live on until things get really bad for the new team you might find that AT&T's pockets will open up rather wide.

It looks like the game of brinksmanship has begun.

How long do you reckon you can hang on for?
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline FUNKED1

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They're closing my dept.
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2003, 02:11:50 PM »
dude

Offline Swoop

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They're closing my dept.
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2003, 02:19:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
How long do you reckon you can hang on for?



I know there's a hiring freeze on, this is why the only way they'll do it is as a continuation of the current contract.  The thing is, they've already given me notice so it's not just a continuation.

Anyway, I also know that higher management has put a block on a head count increase in the new team.......however, the situation may change in january next year when new budgets are drawn up.  What I'm not willing to do is gamble on there being a job for me, I really, really don't expect there to be after december.  Not with the way AT&T has been cutting back on....well....everything lately.



However......more than one person has mentioned the idea of just hanging on until the begging starts.  Personally I'm not convinced the begging even will start if you keep in mind that it's the Dutch brain that's making these decisions.....so I'm still job hunting and if I get an offer tomorrow I'll be taking it.  



Offline Swoop

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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2003, 02:22:38 PM »
More background:


A couple of years ago AT&T sent around an email to all the contractors saying how times were hard and they expected us to show loyalty to the company (!) and they wanted everyone to take a 5% rate cut to help out.


Any contractor who didn't got the boot.





A mate of mine in this team finished today, his last day, bye bye.  He started a week before me.  Been here 5 years.  Wanna know what his leaving present was?   An AT&T sweatshirt.


If they give me a shreckin sweatshirt in two weeks there's gonna be an explosion of language they ain't never heard before.


Offline Curval

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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2003, 02:23:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Swoop
so I'm still job hunting and if I get an offer tomorrow I'll be taking it.  




Want me to check around here?

I had posted that job at the Bank of Bermuda...I could see if that is still available.

Job thread
« Last Edit: October 03, 2003, 02:25:38 PM by Curval »
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Offline nuchpatrick

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They're closing my dept.
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2003, 02:26:36 PM »
Ahh.. glad I'm not the only one that got the old' shaft from AT&T.  I started a very nice job for their Wireless Division right after I got out of college. My job was Roaming and Technical Resolutions.  Basically, I checked to make sure cell towers were working properly and addion to non-AT&T customers that use our systems transfered load's correctly.

9 months into the job we were told that our job's were going to back to Washington...

Their a bunch of dicks I tell ya.. I have no dealings with AT&T since then :D

Offline snafu

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They're closing my dept.
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2003, 02:29:16 PM »
:( Swoop that really sucks big time. Another example of Global strategy not taking into account regional needs and experience. I've been through it although I have managed to hang on to my job (so far).... I'm currently the sole UK survivor of a global team. (There used to be 4 of us). My advice... Start looking for another contract immediately. You know your'e good enough. If they don't, that's thier problem.

TTFN
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Offline Swoop

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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2003, 02:29:46 PM »
Aye I saw that, but the thing is, I'm not an analyst programmer.  :)


If ya happen to know anyone who's looking for an independant thinking LAN/WAN/VPN/RAS type kinda fella who never said the words "I don't know" without adding "but I'll get back to you when I do" then lemme know.


Offline qts

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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2003, 02:29:47 PM »
The IT contract market in the UK has gone well south, mate. I got out 2 years ago. It's better to be earning a lesser amount than not be earning at all. If they come back with even a modestly improved offer, I suggest you accept it.

Offline Swoop

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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2003, 02:35:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by qts
The IT contract market in the UK has gone well south, mate.


It's mildly better in Holland it seems.  Plus I'm also looking at permy jobs as well.  Been here 5 years, I don't like short contracts anyway.......



Offline gofaster

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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2003, 02:44:21 PM »
I didn't know there were so many disgruntled AT&T people on this forum...

... including me! :p

To be honest, IBM shafted me a lot worse than AT&T has.  In fact, I've seen more money and perks from AT&T than I ever would've from IBM (IBM being on the "give to the rich and take from the poor" mentality when it comes to its employees).

What you're seeing in Europe is simply the US AT&T entity thinking that they know what they're doing (arrogance) and that they could do no wrong by using the American business strategy of "let's try this and see what happens".  I handled international contracts from the US side and EMEA was the last bastion of professionalism in service ownership.  Not that the American side was bad, but when push came to shove, the salesmen executives always forced the businessmen executives to take it between the cheeks in customer negotiations - "we can't close the deal unless we concede a 45-day pay period and an annual revenue credit even if they don't meet their volume goals".  Usually it was "we'll concede it for the US, and then tell EMEA (Europe, Middle East, and Africa) that we already put it on contract and they'll just have to figure out how to implement the concession."

Looks like you're getting the fall-out from it all.  The accountants saw the expenses, but then the businessmen saw the obligations.

Don't be surprised if, in 2 weeks, there's an announcement that AT&T has been sold to another company and that the support obligations will be assumed by the other company's people.

Its no coincidence that AT&T has undergone a severe executive restructuring and now you're dealing with uninformed executive decision-making.

Not sure where you sit, but I used to work with the ISPA and CSF coordinators, negotiating all of the data contracts out of the BSC in the Netherlands.

Offline capt. apathy

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They're closing my dept.
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2003, 03:14:05 PM »
Quote
to go to Britain and train up the new team.


you forgot this important point,  not only do they want you to travel, take on extra expense, and do it for less money.  they want you to spend that time training someone else to replace you.

screw-em,  it's good for job security, let them screw it up and then charge them more to straighten it out.

some times the best way to prove what you're worth is to let them do without you for awhile.

Offline Eagler

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They're closing my dept.
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2003, 03:19:38 PM »
gl in your hunt Swoop

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Offline CyranoAH

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They're closing my dept.
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2003, 03:47:48 PM »
Swoop, I don't know if there are any openings right now, but since you are in Holland, you may try the European Space Agency. The European Space Technology Centre (ESTEC) is near Noordwjick (sp?) and they may have something for you, since one of the newly announced programs for this year by ESA is the creation of a better network between their centers (ESTEC, ESOC, EAC, ESRIN, VILSPA, and some others).

As I said, they may have nothing, but you could try... I can give you the e-mail addresses of a couple of friends who are telecom. engineers working at ESTEC right now.

Dunno if you are interested in that, or if there's a slight chance for you to get a job there, but since you are from an ESA member country you qualify for a post there... and hey... you never know :)

Good luck. Tell me if you are interested and I'll hook you up with these friends.

Daniel