Author Topic: First overt Israeli military action vs. Syrian territory 2 decades (Read 2265 times)

Nashwan · « **Reply #30 on:** October 05, 2003, 04:49:21 PM »

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One must ask, why would a heretofore competent Israeli airforce hit an abandoned training camp?

Why do you think it was abandoned? The Israelis say it wasn't, I think the Syrians are saying it was. I'd be more inclined to believe the IAF, myself.

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I didn't say that you weren't technically right just that you are grandstanding. Relocating by force, if necessary, is still relocating.

I just think that people who are advocating things like ethnic cleansing should at least make it clear exactly what they mean, not sanitise the language they use to describe the act.

"Lets relocate the Palestinians" doesn't really convey the misery and destruction that would be involved, does it?

The term in Israeli politics is "transfer". Thankfully, it's beyond the pale in Israeli politics, and can get you locked up and banned from standing in elections.

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The Palestinians are at war with the Israelis. They know they have absolutely no chance at an overt war so they conduct it covertly.

Definately true.

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Anyone that denies this is either blind or a liar.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone deny it. (Unless count those who merely split hairs, eg it's not war, it's armed conflict short of war (Israeli government term))

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Relocating them is far kinder than killing them.

The third option is ending the occupation, as favoured by most of the Israeli public. The fourth option is giving the Palestinians citizenship, and equality before the law.

Quite honestly, I've always favoured option 3, but I think it's clearly impossible, and option 4 will be the eventual result. It's just a question of how many people die before it happens.

AKIron · « **Reply #31 on:** October 05, 2003, 05:01:31 PM »

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Originally posted by Nashwan

I just think that people who are advocating things like ethnic cleansing should at least make it clear exactly what they mean, not sanitise the language they use to describe the act.

"Lets relocate the Palestinians" doesn't really convey the misery and destruction that would be involved, does it?

Uh, if they're so happy where they are now why do they keep killing Israeli civilian women and children?

Ethnic cleansing implies extermination by many who use it.

Eagler · « **Reply #32 on:** October 05, 2003, 07:21:26 PM »

WTG Israel !

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #33 on:** October 05, 2003, 07:40:53 PM »

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Originally posted by AKIron
Uh, if they're so happy where they are now why do they keep killing Israeli civilian women and children?

Ethnic cleansing implies extermination by many who use it.

I strongly disagree with what you said in the first part - although it's a fine feel good fantasy to wish collective punishment on all palestenians it will not solve the problem in the long run - not to mention how evil the idea is, let alone if such a nazi style einsatz was carried out by Jews.

And no, ethnic cleasing does not singly imply genocide, forced relocation as you are advocating is enough.

muckmaw · « **Reply #34 on:** October 05, 2003, 08:02:31 PM »

I hate people that quote dictionaries to try and prove their point.

AKIron · « **Reply #35 on:** October 05, 2003, 08:16:07 PM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I strongly disagree with what you said in the first part - although it's a fine feel good fantasy to wish collective punishment on all palestenians it will not solve the problem in the long run - not to mention how evil the idea is, let alone if such a nazi style einsatz was carried out by Jews.

And no, ethnic cleasing does not singly imply genocide, forced relocation as you are advocating is enough.

Who said anything about punishment? Israel is hated by most other middle eastern countries including the Palestinians. They are being continually attacked by the Palestinians now. Do you think the Palestinians will ever stop? Even if their so called occupied lands were restored? Seems very doubtful to me.

bozon · « **Reply #36 on:** October 05, 2003, 08:22:27 PM »

CNN made a big fuss about something pretty small.
The attack was made IMO to put some pressure on Assad. It worked when the IAF attacked two Syrian radar stations in Lebanon - Suddenly the Hizballa went quite. There was also a more "personal" messege delivered by the IAF to Assad about a month or two ago. I'm not sure what and if was published in international media.

why now? I don't know. The restaurant bombing in Haifa was the excuse, not the reason.

"ethnic cleansing" - I don't know what you guys are talking about. It ain't gonna happen, like the KKK isn't about to clear the USA from black people any time soon. Israel is moving population into the occupied territories, not taking out. If any population is about to be cleansed it's the israeli settlers - sooner the better.

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Those "Pan-Arabs" have tried that crap before. They got their tulips handed to them.

as one of those that would have to go out and hand their tulips to them by risking his own ass, I much prefere if they keep it to themselves in the first place. and I urge Sharon not to encourage them.

Bozon

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #37 on:** October 05, 2003, 08:33:05 PM »

So forcibly removing millions of palestenians from their homes is not punishment? I suppose you think suicide bombers kill all those people because they love them?

But hell the way they have both been doing it for the past 50 years is way cool by me.. I mean how many chances in this boring modern world do we get to see video of Tanks running through rubble strewn streets or piles of mangled bodies sprawled all around blown up burnt out city busses these days - FUN STUFF!

AKIron · « **Reply #38 on:** October 05, 2003, 08:39:34 PM »

What are you talking about Grunherz?? Of course the Palestinians hate the Israelis. That's what I said. Do you think the Palestinians will ever stop their bombing as long as there are Jews in Jerusalem? What's the solution then?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #39 on:** October 05, 2003, 09:07:32 PM »

So deporting all palestenians into a freshy conquered syria would do what? Why not move them to madagascar?

You use the word "deporting" or "relocating", tell me what happends if some palestenians dont want to move?

Tell me why should they let the israeli army pack them into trucks or rail cars - what would then stop the israelis from just gassing them all?

AKIron · « **Reply #40 on:** October 05, 2003, 09:16:41 PM »

Tell me what happens when Israel goes to war with say Syria and/or another middle eastern country and the Palestinians decide to take advantge and begin more open attacks?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #41 on:** October 05, 2003, 09:30:52 PM »

They get deported to Syria. and resume attacks from there?

Tell me what happends to Israel's moral aothority then?

AKIron · « **Reply #42 on:** October 05, 2003, 09:40:30 PM »

Many of them get killed and the rest moved into what used to be Syria. Morality sometimes plays second to survival.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #43 on:** October 05, 2003, 09:43:35 PM »

What about the perfectly normal Syrian citizens currently living there - where don they get lovingly relocated by the israeli einsatzgruppen?

Are you nuts? I really thought the whole stalinist/hitlerian/milosevic mass ethnic population resettllement
thing had been done to death allready - hey thats practcally a pun..

AKIron · « **Reply #44 on:** October 05, 2003, 09:55:47 PM »

Relocation is more humane than saying that's it and responding in full force to the war that's been declared and is being waged by the Palestinians.