Just a statement:

[DB603]

S!

 I tested WB offline and H2H yesterday/today.Flew both Lufwaffe and Allied planes.More I testi,more I like the FM.U can do nice moves and stick input is good.AH is not bad in this area either,but IMO WB is a fraction ahead in "feel" of flying.
 Gunnery once again.It is definitely harder to hit anything outside 400yds in WB with any weapon than in AH from same distance.Dispersion seems to be a bit greater and U really need to be close to 1G to achieve accuracy.
 Graphics are outdated in WB 2.77r2b.Tracers are a bit "old",but still do their job.Terrain is good.Less "shimmering" than in AH.AH's terrain(and user made ones) are great too.Sights are in WB more "clearer" and the crosshair thinner even as default.Not bad in AH either as U can download a crapload of new sights from players   As the cockpits were discussed..WB is a clear winner here IMO.U need more SA in the cockpits of WB than in AH.Also instrument layout is IMO more "natural" to me...Still..the panning mode in AH is VERY useful and is what WB is missing.
 Sounds...In WB the sound of both prop and engine vary with speed.As a fighter pilot at work told me,U can pretty accurately tell when speed changes(even small ones) of the prop sound.Engine sounds(default ones) in WB are less than stellar.In AH the user made sounds give a whole new dimension.As I haven't dug into the WB crowd,I don't know how active the custom sounds/sights making is,but I think there's a blooming modding society too as in here  
 Gameplay...Very much the same in both.Maybe less gunner bugs in WB.In AH the buff guns fire through the plane etc. as in WB they have to stay within the limits of the movement.Even the AI seems to bank the planes occasionally to allow the otto gunner a firing solution.Accuracy increases when disance shortens.
 This may sound as AH falls behind WB,but it does not.Both of these sims have good points and are both very realistic and immersive.If I could,I would fly both of them,but the financial situation doesn't allow that...  And my choice is now AH.Will use WB for offline and H2H with fighter jocks from work until I get enuf salary to pay for both  
 



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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34

[Karaya One]

Its like comparing apples and oranges.

WB has been around much longer than AH. They had more time to screw up  

If you compare a timeline, one will find AH is significantly further than WB was at the same point in time.

The pricing of ALL simulations needs to come down. Everquest can afford to charge $9.95 a month because they have 200,000 plus players a night. However, they got 200,000 players right from the get go because it was a great game and the price point was perfect for everyone, including european players (who pay more for net access).

I only have one "gripe" for the peanut gallery....there is no element of surprise. Radar and fat icons at long range ruin it. But this has always been an ongoing argument since day 1. For example, the past few days my country has been getting wacked..wacked hard. I go up (end up alone) and encounter many enemy cons. There is zero, nada, no opprotunity for a bounce. Even hunting on the fringe.

The greatest pilots have OFTEN turned the tables,outnumbered and outgunned, with the element of surprise. There is no such element in WB or AH.



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Karaya One
Flying Pigs Squadron

[Skysix1]

I think they compare pretty well.
 
While I hate the perk system in AH, I I like the RPS system in WB but I think they could back it off to about a rotation every 5-10 days instead of every 21.  

I like the overall look of AH better than WB 2.77x and WB3.  

I like the bombing better in WB than in AH although both could use some um..."tweaking"

I think the Flight Model winner is AH but WB is pretty close to it IMO.

The big plus (in my book) for WB is the Historical Arena and autogunners.

The big plus in AH (in my book) is the Ar234 and the overall looks.

The not so good in WB (in my book) only 1 day to fly the Me262 a tour (if your busy that day you gotta wait another 3 weeks).

The not so good in AH (in my book) is the perk system.  The system virtually eliminates newbies and low time flyers from the perks.  It took me 2 months (20-30 hours a month) to get enough perks to fly the Ar234.

How would I fix both.  

autogunners but no external views for bombers and they wont fire (or very inaccurate) if bomber is pulling over 2-3g's.

"Time Period" Arenas (or if it is one big arena then "Time Period" Areas separated somehow) where you could only choose from the aircraft/vehicles available during that period of WW2. and they would all be free.  The better ones maybe have restrictions like only available at certian fields in that arena/area.

More Targets that somehow effect the country that owns it if attacked.

Bombers should not have such an easy time dropping bombs on targets.  Do the Norden sight like B-17II does including setting drift from navigator station. Make it so you must set everything yourself too unless you bring someone along to help you.


------------------
Chuck Perry   
"Sky61"

[flakbait]

WBs has some good points and bad points just like AH. One thing I hated in WBs was the HUGE damping on control movements. Roll rate in nearly every plane was slow, the stick "felt" heavy; too heavy. They've got better smoke trails than we do, but horrid aircraft/structure graphics. 55 planes tells me they've got an edge in quantity, but not quality. If WB's had a better FM (among other things) I'd probably still be there. AH has some points too. Like I said I don't like the smoke trails here. Building explosions are right out of Looney Tunes. But AH has better graphics overall plus a much better FM. Gunnery could be better or worse, it depends on how good a shot you are. I find it highly realistic, but that's me. Strat is...well, annoying in some places yet fun in others. WB's does have one thing I wish we had; bridges. High-alt bombing could be better in both sims. Terrains are something WB's has HANDS DOWN better than we do. They've got rivers that don't resemble a puzzle put together the wrong way.

Aircraft art in WB's I find completely laughable. Madonna's Pointey Bra adorns the current B-24 prop hubs. Engine management is something we've got (kinda), over there you can't change prop RPM to save your life. We've got PT Boats, LVT's, tanks, half-tracks, commandable carrier fleets, manable acks, coastal defense guns; they've got squat. In options for the player AH has WBs dead to rights. Documentation could be better here, but that's what the Help section is for. Throw in my site and Leph's, and you've got just about all the offline training you need. We've got a terrain editor that works most of the time, I don't think WB's has released one yet. WBs also uses DLL's for primart sound sources; AH uses ordinary WAV files. A lot easier to mess with the pitch or thrum of an engine over here.

Here's my personal wish list for Aces High:

1) better smoke trails
2) better terrains
3) improve the terrain editor to allow players to redesign fields, and have them actually work. improve the implementation of rivers in terrains.
4) better building explosions
5) have the offline drones actually crash when critically damaged
6) throw a little dispersion in for high-alt bombing
7) improve slipstream and gyroscopic effects


Hmm, that's about all I can ramble off in a single stretch. If there's anything you want to see feel free to add to my list.

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
 

[llbm_MOL]

Oranges and apples................


LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!

[DB603]

S!

 As mentioned about the damping in WB making planes slower to roll than in AH...Hasn't it been mentioned here that some planes in AH actually have faster roll rates than they actually should according to the NACA test charts posted here several times?Maybe this makes the WB planes "feel" more heavy after AH?I found no problem to roll planes,like 190 for example,fast with a bit help of rudder in WB.In AH some planes fly like modern aerobatic planes...they roll(most noticeable in roll) as sharp and movement stops as sharp.Just my opinion of this..
 
 In general the FM's are very close,but I like the WB stall more than AH's.Also the feel is better (IMO again) in WB.Sometimes AH's FM feels too "sharp" or "flying-on-rails".This is just a matter of taste though...BTW Pyro/HiTech are still as drones in WB Offline  

 

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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34

[Taur]

Its not really a competition in the sim community between AH and WB, but between those that want "arena" flying, with non-historic anything goes matchups, and those that want to fly "in WW2" with their WW2 a/c. Im of the latter. So right now, WB has it over AH. Graphics are of secondary importance. I like AH, but it needs more pre 1944 a/c, terrains, and time for all that to "gel" into a scen-community of its own within AH. I think in time it will happen.

[Grayeagle]

Hiya;

When you speak of roll rate delay (some call it 'inertia' mistakenly) ..I can offer my observations about what it took to roll Crazy Horse 360 degrees at 260ias.

I pulled nose up about 15 degrees.. braced my arm directly behind the stick 90 degrees and pushed the stick left as hard and fast as I could to execute the roll.

It moved as if it was in thick oil ..the roll rate accelerating as more aileron was deflected into the airstream. No 'inertia' ..it was strictly overcoming the force required to push the ailerons into the windstream.

I had full deflection when we were 180 degrees through the roll .. inverted.

To stop the roll .. I stopped holding the stick full left.. simply eased pressure off.
The stick centered quickly, no overshoot, wings level. As fast as the stick moved, the roll rate responded.

No delay, no 'inertia' .. not at 260ias (approx 300mph), alt was 8500 ft.

-GE

[Wilbus]

WB3 has got better graphics in some aspects, and worse in some. Take a look at the gear animations and gun turrets/gun on the bombers as they move and follow a nearby enemy.

More Realistic cockpits, specially the new 3D Cockpits, this is, of course something that Allied pilots don't have to worry about since you have realistic now but all non allied pilots have to use allied look and weird non metric instrument, takes away ALOT of feeling.

AH has got a nice community and constant updates, good FM and many planes + many planes in every new version.
AH wins easily.

 



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Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 Eismeer
Livestock Liberation Front

"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be."

Adolf Galland

[Vulcan]

I'm no expert of FMs and all the other toejam... so...

Why did I leave Warbirds and take to AH:
 - crap connections and massive server problems
 - failure of IEN people to respond to any emails
 - crap customer service (ohhh how long did it take to get the c/card payments stopped!)
 - no improvements for a long long time
 - pay per hour

This was late 1999, when AH was in beta. I had been a WB customer for many years (since CK beta).

Now I have AH:
 - awesome servers AND Skuzzy standing by 24/7
 - HTC people respond to emails
 - excellent customer service
 - improvement after improvement rolling off the press
 - flat rate (WB took a long time to respond to this)

I don't forget these things easily. Somehow I think many of us will be here for quite a while. You girls can argue til the cows come home about what size underwear Buff pilots wear... but I know which company looks after me.



[This message has been edited by Vulcan (edited 05-20-2001).]

[-tronski-]

 WB has perk system, Better Dar, and lots of early war planes...
 
 AH has better graphics, PT boats etc, Better connects for the non US players, Plenty of potential...

Must say that sometimes the blank big brother corporate attitude of WB handles the criticism better, but AH never seems to ignore the better suggestions.

 Tronsky


[This message has been edited by -tronski- (edited 05-20-2001).]

[Skybax]

One thing to note about the connections.

The remaining days at MCNC were hell!

Connections were horrible. I mean bad.

But since the move to InFlow, and the re-location of everything, the connections are now beautiful.

[DeeZCamp]

man.. How many times do i have to say it hehe.. IF you are looking into Flight Models .. check out X-plane .. ITs realtime caculation allows for accurate real-world Flight handleing. I have done Full acro Flight in real life in a naval trainer, I have tried the same manovers in X-plane and The truth is in the program. www.x-plane.com  try it and see for your self

[koala]

First off, it's wrong to say that comparing AH with WB isn't valid just because WB has been around a lot longer.  Money is charged pretty much the same for both sims, they both compete directly with the same target audience, so any comparisons are valid based on what is there now.  As a flight-sim consumer it's a natural thing to think about.

Advantages of AH:

1. Hitech and Pyro.  They built both sims and IEN developers so far can't hold a candle to these guys.  WB3 has got too far a ways to go before my opinion in this regard changes.

2. Better potential (because of HT and Pyro).

3. More professional, responsive company (for the same reason).

4. Better plane models graphically.

5. Film.

6. 8-player H2H.

7. Better Tracers.

Advantages of Warbirds:

1. Rolling Plane Set.  I love this.

2. Many more planes.  Kinda need this to have a decent RPS.

3. Better-looking terrain.  Not a lot of polygons, but the textures just look more natural and seamless to me.

4. Limited radar.  Coordinating with others to locate enemy plane formations and CV groups, or coming on a CV group unexpectedly is much more satisfying than having it spoon-fed to me.

5. Better flight model imo.  Last time I tried AH (a couple of months ago), it seemed like there was still very little prop drag, and landing a Pony is like landing a 747, needing a huge amount of runway.

6. Limited visibility.  It's very disconcerting not to be able to see much on your 6, but I think it's more realistic.  Makes good SA more important and let's me more easily bounce those who don't have it ;-)  Also makes teamwork and 6 calls more important.

I have a bunch more but these are the ones that quickly come to mind.

[SirLoin]

Forget Warbirds..Air Warrior has Fighter-Town in Big Pac arena..I think it would work great here..<Sir Loin of Beef>