Author Topic: SSO Frame 1 AARs  (Read 1019 times)

Offline Grayarea

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SSO Frame 1 AARs
« on: October 05, 2003, 02:52:32 PM »
Hi all,

Please post you AARs here for the first frame.

Offline Squire

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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2003, 03:47:54 PM »
880 Rolled from A53 Heavy in P-47s. We followed WOD in Typhoons East and had the Mossies on our low 6. Turned South for target over the coast, and headed in to A53. Spotted 110s and then 190s, made a shallow dive attack, dropped ord and egressed South, being pursued by 1st 190s and then 262s. We lost 2 at the target.

Dragged the 262s West to the coast, they broke off. We then vectored to A80 to CAP it, and were attacked by, 110s, 262s and 109s, we downed 2 110s, and rtb'd after we lost another P-47.

I thought the alt limit was very restrictive, and quite frankly, I have to wonder why we are in P-47s , Mossies, and SpitIXs to face Jets, 109G10s and Doras (in equal #s to boot). In any case I rtb'd ok, and so did 1/2 my squad, it was still fun, despite being a suicide run against a/c a year better that just sat over the target and waited for us as we came in heavy with no escort, save the almighty watching over us...

I need a drink :)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2003, 03:50:28 PM by Squire »
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Offline B17Skull12

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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2003, 03:54:44 PM »
20th rolled south in 262s. we headed north after we got to 5k to go cap 53. then when we saw p47 we attack along with JB event squads 190's and MAG33's 110's. when i told them to break off they did and went back to 53 while remained and herassed the p47 to our pleasure.:D  then we broke off and rtbon fuel. we landed and waited with mag33 for 5 mins. they took off while i was deciding what to do. and so we up again from 57 to south and try to catch up to the 110's. we didn't they get slaughtered at the hand of evil p47's. our 262's come in and so does llv34's 109's and we wipe out most of the p47s we cap 80 until we rtb fuel we landed a82.


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Offline Squire

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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2003, 04:04:28 PM »
Why did the Vikings roll a single Spitfire XIV? was there a ration? Just wondering. I think we could have used more than that myself.

Oh the 262s, ya, well, we bombed the target and egressed home, no problemo, it was fun to watch the Jets make passes though, way cool. ZOOOOOMMMM looked neeto. :)

"Allied aircraft

Spit IX
Spit XIV (Limited) ???
Tempest V (Limited) ???
Typhoon
P-47D-25
P-38L
Mosquito MK VI"

Just wondering.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2003, 04:26:47 PM by Squire »
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Offline B17Skull12

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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2003, 04:28:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
Why did the Vikings roll a single Spitfire XIV? was there a ration? Just wondering. I think we could have used more than that myself.

Oh the 262s, ya, well, we bombed the target and egressed home, no problemo, it was fun to watch the Jets make passes though, way cool. ZOOOOOMMMM looked neeto. :)

"Allied aircraft

Spit IX
Spit XIV (Limited) ???
Tempest V (Limited) ???
Typhoon
P-47D-25
P-38L
Mosquito MK VI"

Just wondering.
well im guessing that you guys had to many squads with to many people so they couldn't give them to a squad.
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Offline Chanter

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« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2003, 04:45:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by B17Skull12
our 262's come in and so does llv34's 109's and we wipe out most of the p47s we cap 80 until we rtb fuel we landed a82.


skull12


Interesting take.  Here's the truth though.

There were 4 P-47s capping 80 at the end.  We spotted 2 110s i/b and shot them down.  Then the jets and 109s appeared, to which we lost 1 of our 47s.  The pilot bailed safely over the field.  The remaining 75% of the P47s landed safely at A80 and went to the bar.

So I say that "most" of us landed  :)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2003, 04:47:26 PM by Chanter »
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Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2003, 04:55:38 PM »
The Finns took off with 6xJu88 formations (LLv32) and 7x109G10 (LLv34).  We got to the target (A80), where we saw about 7 spit9s and one spit14. We shot them all down for the loss of one 109 and one Ju88 drone.  We refueled and repeated the attack to A80. We saw a few P47s, shot one down, the rest stayed within the AAA and landed. All our remaining planes landed safely.

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Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2003, 05:12:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire

I thought the alt limit was very restrictive, and quite frankly, I have to wonder why we are in P-47s , Mossies, and SpitIXs to face Jets, 109G10s and Doras (in equal #s to boot). In any case I rtb'd ok, and so did 1/2 my squad, it was still fun, despite being a suicide run against a/c a year better that just sat over the target and waited for us as we came in heavy with no escort, save the almighty watching over us...
 


I found the alt limit very refreshing. Now the fights were at a bit more reasonable level.  I was afraid that the alt limit would restrict the 109s a lot, since it would limit the use of the vertical. But as the fighting started, it quickly dropped to 5-8k, only the highest zoom climbs would reach 10k.  All in all, the fighting was a very very welcome change to the usual 25-35k fights we've had.

The planeset is imho a bit axis biased. But frankly, I think this must be the first time ever, for a post-1943 event!

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Offline Dantoo

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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2003, 02:21:35 AM »
Quote
where we saw about 7 spit9s and one spit14. We shot them all down for the loss of one 109 and one Ju88 drone.


Ouch, who let the Finn's in here??? :D

Tasks seem to be less complex all the time in these operations.  Orders were to up Spit 9's and patrol for enemy aircraft trying to attack A80.  We had the extra complication of a "hard ceiling" of 10k, a little more on that later.

Four of us were there to start.  Markal and Noir patrolled to the north while Frank and I went south.  Within minutes Markal reported 5 cons inbound.  Frank and I went to join them, handing over to the 332nd the responsibility of patrolling over A80.  Markal and Noir were doing a skilful job of shadowing the cons - 5 190-D's.  As Frank and I came up to the other side of them they turned and engaged us.  A very tight and ferocious dogfight ensued.

I turned toward a 190 trailing smoke (Frank was nipping at his heels), he tightened the turn and went for the HO.  I squeezed off a burst and made the fatal error of trying to dive under him. Boom.   Focus man focus!

I jumped in the back of Frank's plane as he zoomed past :) and was dismayed to see Markal trailing smoke.  There was only 4 190's left now and a minute or so later we had them 3-2 then 2v2 as Markal had to ditch.  At this point you might think from MA experience that 2v2 will last only for a minute or so.  20 minutes later the battle still continued.  The Doras tried a few variations on extending and HO'ing but each time our lads handled them with skill.  The 190's controlled the engagement, to a degree, due to their greater speed and acceleration.  50 minutes into the flight and 30 minutes into the battle the enemy pair made a mistake and got split.  Noir attacked one of them with vigour - Frank covering and making "daring" front quarter passes that had his passenger squealing in panic.  Fuel was now low if not critical.   Just as Noir delivered a killing thrust, the Vikings arrived to see if we needed a hand.  The last 190 left like a rocket.  He didn't get home though.

Returning to base on the sniff of oily rags etc. etc. further disruption appeared with a lone 109-G10 patrolling over the home base.  Noir chased him off a short way while Frank circled tight for a landing.  The cavalry arrived in the guise of "tittibits" one of the Vikings in a Spit 14.  He engaged the 109 while Noir landed.  2 on the refuel pad and all safe.  Frank goes to move forward and his empanage falls off.  A Gallic curse from the other end of the field indicates the same has happened to Noir.  A quick look confirms its a bug and not a hit on the refuel bowser.  The lads are peeved.  Quite right!  It's not the first time some terrain bug has robbed us in the SEA.  I hope its the last.

The 10k ceiling was not well received initially.  Strangely though, in light of what happened it probably improved the gameplay considerably.  It will be interesting to see if they persist with it next week.  It didn't hurt the scenario at all - in fact it probably improved it considerably.
I get really really tired of selective realism disguised as a desire to make bombers easier to kill.

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Offline Grayarea

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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2003, 04:04:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
I thought the alt limit was very restrictive, and quite frankly, I have to wonder why we are in P-47s , Mossies, and SpitIXs to face Jets, 109G10s and Doras (in equal #s to boot). In any case I rtb'd ok, and so did 1/2 my squad, it was still fun, despite being a suicide run against a/c a year better that just sat over the target and waited for us as we came in heavy with no escort, save the almighty watching over us...

I need a drink :)


The Dora and 262 were restriced so you were not facing them in equal numbers.

Interesting points.

The plane set barring the 190D9 is comparable. It is hard to say if it is fair or not, all of the planes were flying in the time frame we have.

I suppose that every dog has his day, and for the most part the Allies have superior planes, however at this point in time the 262 was operational and the Allies had no answer. Are we to ignore this section of history because the Allies did not have an advantage? BTW this is a general questions not aimed at you Squire :)

It must be pointed out though that Allied plan to commit early did not work out, leaving the Axis to pretty much do what they liked for the remainder of the frame.

Given the way this frame went I am feeling likely to increase the number of restricted planes for the Allies while leaving the Axis numbers alone. What are peoples views on the following for the next frame.

Spit XiV      6 (was 4)
Tempest    6 (was 4)

190D9       4
262           4

I am interested in hearing everyone’s view on the 10k limit. I put it in to reduce the height of engagements in this JABO SSO.

I strive for a historical balance in my SSOs.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2003, 04:13:49 AM by Grayarea »

Offline Skyfoxx

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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2003, 07:21:14 AM »
Historical balance is good. :)
But the 10k alt cap is ridiculous imho.
I understand what you are striving for(keeping it a jabo frame) but 10k is overkill, again imho. A little more operating room please.


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Offline Squire

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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2003, 08:49:06 AM »
I still dont get where our XIVs and Temps were in frame 1?

As for the dates for a July-Aug 44 setup:

190D-9 none saw action at Normandy, 9-44
109G-10 non saw action at Normandy, 10-44, yes despite its constant overuse in AH 1944 events (all of them), it was not in service at Normandy.

I dont begrudge the Me262 at all, it was in service in 7-44 and we should have it included (in sane #s) in some setups.

Tempest 6-44
Spit XIV 1-44
Typhoon 7-42

Im not suggesting either that the above RAF types HAVE to be in a Normandy setup...Im just pointing out that they were there is all.

Please dont bring out that "date list" its badly flawed and needed updating a looong time ago...I have no idea who put it together.

15k please if you insist on an alt CAP...

Yes it was still fun!, just pointing out things from my perch is all. 880 is always big on the S.Os. .

And you are right, sometimes sides do have a disadvantage, no biggie,...its just we were led to beleive we had the above two RAF types to help out, and they were not there, seemed like the entire 1945 LW ORBAT was chasing our poor 4 P-47s all over hell and back :)

Will be there in frames 2 and 3, with a rabbits foot and as much ammo as I can carry!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2003, 09:11:30 AM by Squire »
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Offline Grayarea

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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2003, 02:36:02 PM »
Restricted plane stats

The following airframes were used;

1 x Spit XIV
0 x Tempests

2 x 262
5 x 190d9

Offline B17Skull12

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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2003, 05:25:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Grayarea
Restricted plane stats

The following airframes were used;

1 x Spit XIV
0 x Tempests

2 x 262
5 x 190d9
:o opps i saw 4 when they upped ramezy discoed i think.
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Offline Dantoo

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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2003, 10:03:04 PM »
Check webtreatz - 5 were shot down.  No biggie though.  It's better for a squad to have the same aircraft type if possible.  I certainly would never begrudge an extra airframe in cases like this.

Let's not get over-zealous pursuing little things that have no great overall impact anyway.

The main thing is for participants to get some degree of immersion in the scenario.  These things are not and can never be historically accurate.  The server can't hold the 3000 guys we need to do it.  All you can represent is a small section of some greater drama.  Some slight of hand is needed to encourage some thoughtfulness on the part of frame CO's, Squad leaders and their charges.

Balance?  Probably an impractical dream.  Just give out feasible tasks and the tools to do it with.  Give the participants a chance to complete that task and bring their machine safely home. :)
I get really really tired of selective realism disguised as a desire to make bombers easier to kill.

HiTech

Matthew 24:28 For wherever the carcass is, there is where the vultures gather together.