Author Topic: Tanks are incredibly effective weapons against light infantry and bomb factories.. (Read 447 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **on:** October 07, 2003, 02:25:07 AM »

But they are absolutely useless against unarmed men and nonviolent protest.

Will the Palestenians ever realize that?

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2003, 02:54:46 AM »

Tell that to the american girl who got bulldozed to death down there.

Unarmed protest ---> easy kill.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2003, 03:01:41 AM »

Very easy to kill unarmed nonviolent protestors.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #3 on:** October 07, 2003, 03:17:05 AM »

So what was your point in the end?

Israelis have shown repeatedly that they can bulldoze families to death. They weren't even protesting and certainly not armed.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #4 on:** October 07, 2003, 03:29:39 AM »

The point is obvious, but then I'm not surprised you dont get it..

CyranoAH · « **Reply #5 on:** October 07, 2003, 04:11:31 AM »

Jeez you are both on the same side! Now get over it!

Daniel

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2003, 04:54:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by CyranoAH
Jeez you are both on the same side! Now get over it!

Daniel

I dont think so. I have sympathy for all involved to see a peaceful solution in the end, and might have some sympathy for the palestenian people recognizing the crap they have been caught in, and yes, helped along by their acts - but I think our dear swiss nazi banker friend has made it clear he hates Israel and thinks its founding to be:

(from another thread)

The creation of Israel was one of the worst historical mistakes of modern time.

I'm curious if he ranks it ip there with the holocaust or communism?

So no, I think I can honestly say we are not on the same side. And this is coming from a guy who thinks Israel is a bit hypocritical in complaing about terrorism now considering the circumstances leading up to that country's founding. So while I am fully willing to assign proper credit and blame as best as I personally understand the events he has allready made up hisd mind in no uncertain terms...

miko2d · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2003, 08:28:18 AM »

GRUNHERZ: The creation of Israel was one of the worst historical mistakes of modern time.

I'm curious if he ranks it up there with the holocaust or communism?

Supposedely, western democracies were not responcible for the holocaust and communism.
The western democracies were instrumental in creation of Israel and support of it's existance.

Since we are living in the western democracies, discussing mistakes that we have commited and that we are perpetuating and sugesting ways to correct them is quite rational and responcible course of action.
Refusing to discuss our failings and our problems just because somewhere in the past somebody else unrelated to us did bad things (not necessrily by mistake, just ask your ancestors) is plain demagoguery, as our favorite president likes to say.

Aren't you a bit hyppocritical, GRUNHERZ - calling holocaust and communism "mistakes", but not the creation of Israel. Without holocaust and communism, how would the western democracies ever find enough shocked, disposessed, unwanted jews to stock up that snakepit of a region after 70 years of zionism failed to persuade more than a few hundreds to move in?

miko

gofaster · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2003, 08:43:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Tell that to the american girl who got bulldozed to death down there.

Unarmed protest ---> easy kill.

That was Palestinian propoganda. Check this out:

http://incontext.blogmosis.com/archives/007596.html

http://israelbehindthenews.com/Archives/Mar-21-03.htm

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2003, 08:58:44 AM »

He clearly said it was one of the gretest mistakes of recent histry -I'm merely curious if he holds it in the same company as the others I have mentioned. I hope we can agree that the two I brought were indeed at least historical "mistakes."

miko2d · « **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2003, 11:24:13 AM »

GRUNHERZ: He clearly said it was one of the gretest mistakes of recent histry -I'm merely curious if he holds it in the same company as the others I have mentioned. I hope we can agree that the two I brought were indeed at least historical "mistakes."

He probably ment it in context that is quite obvious but that you choose to ignore.

If we talk about decisions in which we have or had a say in, we can argue wherther they were mistakes and of which magnitude - meaning whether the means used were conducive towards the causes we have and should we correct them.

It has nothing to do with actions/decisions of entities that are separate from us - and that had different causes, so the actions may have been not a mistake but an intended result for them.

Telling my wife "we made a bad decision buying Subaru Wagon but it's nothing compared to GRUNHERZ's flop of buying a tractor..." would not make any sense in an argument. First, what does anyone else's decision has to do with our course of action and responcibility and corrective measures. Second, the tractor could have been exactly what you wanted to get.

He did not say "creation of Israel" was the worst humanitarian catastrophe of modern time, just that it was "one of the worst historical mistakes of modern time" - most likely meaning our mistakes. Since it is from another thread I do not care to unearth, I just guess you were not musing about history in general but about what our western democratic world should do now about the Middle East.

miko

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2003, 11:32:45 AM »

Whatever the context context it does show his extreme bias...

I consider it the same as saying that freeing the slaves in the 1860s was a huge mistake in a discussion of high black poverty or crime rates in the USA today....

trolla · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2003, 11:42:29 AM »

When the UN decieded to make the state Isralel they maked the biggest mistake in our time.

Cannot be solved whatsoever, and can only bring more suffer for the jews and the arabs. ( and the rest of the world will be following into the toilet)
Us using way to much resources to "help" Israel and they just doing things worse.

Been there seen that and wont do it again.

miko2d · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2003, 12:01:19 PM »

GRUNHERZ: Whatever the context context it does show his extreme bias...
I consider it the same as saying that freeing the slaves in the 1860s was a huge mistake in a discussion of high black poverty or crime rates in the USA today....

I don't know - what did he offer as an alternative?

I too believe that creation and support of Israel are huge mistakes but my proposed solution would be to let them - willing peace-loving jews and palestinians - immigrate in US and live in peace.
I think what they have is bad and going to get worse and want what's good for them.

There are many ways to free slaves. Saying that freeing them was a mistake sounds bad. On the other hand, implying that some particular way to free them was a mistake and a better one should have been used is quite all right. (For starters, I'd have evicted slave states from the Union, repealed the laws denying refuge to runaway slaves in "free" states and started a public campaign of boycott towards slave-produced goods).

We must make allowances for very differing backgrounds and implicit presumptions of the participants - both in writing more explicitely and in reading more indulgently.

miko

davidpt40 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 07, 2003, 12:05:03 PM »

Israelis are complex, sophisticated people. Palestinians live in mud houses and wear rags and follow a very ancient social system.

The Palestinians (and all middle-eastern pseudo tribes) are destined to either evolve (quickly) or be destroyed.