Spitfire

[Falcontx]

Maybe someone can give me a hand here.
I have to admit I am an Ex Air Warrior
Jocky, actually since Dos days up and
until about a year ago. I always have flown the Spit, mainly because i have always like the aircraft. I see alot of post here about
how easy it is to get kills. But I dont find it to be exactly true. Obviously I am a bit rusty and still pull some major dweeb moves,
but I find at low alt dog fight that once
my E and airspeed are down to about 160
its seems almost impossible to regain it.
I gain arispeed quicker on take off then after or during a fight. Also some minor testing I have done is that at 3g or higher
the aircraft burns a ton of E. Now I understand that at 5 and 6g yea it should.
Also any rudder input drains quite a bit of E too. Hi yo yo's also seem alot harder to pull off with out major E drain and if I relax the pull while I am nose hi in a yo yo
just about any aircraft ends up on my 6. Any
input would be most appreciated here. I love
the sim but the flight modeling is a bit hard to get used to and figure out.

FalconTX

[humble]

Falcon,

There is a huge difference between AH and AW. I've flown AW since Dec of 1994, I started in RR and moved to FR sometime in 1997. I probably have hit most of the AW benchmarks in both RR and FR over the years.
5 kill mission, 10 kill mission (no vulches)
15K mission 30k mission 150,000 day etc. Pilot ability is very important in all sims but in AW plane capability is very important. Only at the extreme does the pilot overcome the planes raw ability. In AH the pilots abilities greatly influence the performance of the aircraft. I think all of us AW T&B types are suffering from the FM..this dows disappear over time and is less relevent based on your SA and e fighting ability.

[robclark]

Falcon

what i have learned.  
just have to get used to the different features of each plane.  If you only lean how the spit fly's and manuvers and do not take the time to learn the other you will alway end up in a chute or worse.  When u fly try to take some basic advantages.
nk1- good turn fighter (4) 20mm guns (deadly) but level top speed slow
spit - medium turn fighter (2) 20mm guns 50's or 303 mch gun level medium speed
c205- not flown
p51 - so-so turn fighter, 6 50's, level med-high speed.
f4u - similar to p51 just looks better
(i know i get flack over that one)
190- Very fast and deadly but can not turn.

Hope this helps, I am no experts there are plenty here thou.  I sure some will correct me if i have miss any information, but you will learn from all that comment.  

good luck
RC

[Falcontx]

Thanks RC , but I do know the major differences in the different aircraft(strength and weaknesses). And I also know that the flight model of all these birds are still in the tweaking stage. But for instance
at 3 to 4 g the spit burns alot more E than I would expect. From what I had been told over the years the wing configuration on a spit allows it to hang onto E better than most planes. And at low speed near stall at low alt the aircraft is almost impossible to
turn at all without spinning. Also the flaps
create a tremedous speed loss(compared to AW flight model) and they deploy so slow there
usless in a dogfight even if I drop them for
a sec. and then retract them. And this may well be accurate.Not really complaining here
at all, just trying to get used to this flight model.Thanks Humble and RC for your input and if there is anything either of you could add it would be most appreciated. Also
if any Spit jocks have any tips they could pass on  I would welcome those also.

FalconTX

[Gazoo]

On Flaps.
First off I am building a scale 1/6th spitfire (see my web pages).  I have done some talking to ex spit pilots and am in conversation with Peter Crosers somewhat regularily (he is rebuilding a spit V, web pages again)

The flaps on the spit were NEVER deployed in combat. This is because they weren't really flaps, but breaks.  The boards only had two positions.  Up and 80 degrees deflection.  They were slow to come down and up.  They were meant to bleed a lot of E on a fairly fast approach. (see the pilots manual on my web page).

Can't really say one way or the other for the other stuff, but the flaps were not meant for combat.



------------------
"Just Plane Nuts"
Gazoo
 http://plaza.v-wave.com/SolarStorm/index.htm

[Dingy]

Hiyas Flight!

Fear not cause the light of salvation awaits!! I too am an ex-AW vet and started flying FR very early in my sim-career.  My beginnings there were frought with many of the same problems you are experiencing now...getting out-E'd, out turned, out fought, etc.

How did I fix this?  Three ways:

 - Browse the web!  Theres alot of good information out there which has been written by other sim-pilots.  One of my current favorite sites is www.flyingpigs.com.   They are an old Warbirds squad who have a tactics site that contains ALOT of good info.  Good sources are Fletchman, DocGonz, and some others.

 - Read Robert Shaw's book, "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering".  Lots of good info in there.  Its very technical so bear with it!

 - Practice! Practice! Practice!  Good SA, gunnery and ACM is not developed overnight.  The websites and Shaw will introduce you to what you ought to be doing but only experience will teach you repeatability!

Good luck!

-Ding

[buhdman]

Dinghy,

I tried your flyinpigs url and could not find anything to do with flying pigs or even the regular kind (except perhaps the restaurant section).

Is there something I'm missing?

Thanks!

buhdman, out

------------------
Walt (buhdman) Barrow
(formerly lt-buhd-lite)
home.earthlink.net/~wjbarrow

[rosco-]

budhman try this link, http://www.flyingpigs.com/  

Rosco

[buhdman]

Rosco-,

Thanks!  That "." at the end of the other URL is apparently what steered me wrong.

buhdman, out

------------------
Walt (buhdman) Barrow
(formerly lt-buhd-lite)
home.earthlink.net/~wjbarrow

[Cleaner]

Falcontx, rule #1 in a spit is never hitting flaps except for landing. Rule #2 stay with loops and high and low Yoyo's, the spit is and excellent climber but start ur ACM with 200 Mph min. When coming off loop or high yoyo's push ur nose down to get some of the E back. Also make sure ur stick is configured properly as well.

------------------
Member of the Flying Elvis's AH's most elite parachute team...

[This message has been edited by Cleaner (edited 12-09-1999).]

[niklas]

falcontx, maybe a tip: You better donīt try to do the job - let the machine do the job. Or: let the machine run!

My first impression of the FM was the same as yours- now i like it. Itīs the first sim where i donīt have the impression to sit in a toy but in a fighter with a weight of about 4000kg, moving around in a very thin medium, called air!

[Falcontx]

Thanks Alot guys for all the input. I am rather surprised that there werent some that didnt flame me about the spit. Any online sim
treats the spit and its jocks about the same.
But I have started working with my 10yr old
here and his callsign "LUKE" and after reviewing Shaw to start some training with him the light bulbs started flickering. Last night I started working the spit in the vertical alot more (as I should have) along
with placing the lift vector where I wanted the plane to end up and at the end of one sortie had my first 3 kill sortie ( before ack got me) since I had started here. You can bet I will be rereading Shaw alot more
until I get comfotable with everything here.
 Also if you see "Luke" I dont allow him
to talk in the arena so if he doesnt respond
he is not being rude. But he is from the RR crowd and is learning FR very quickly, but
I gota break him of the dweeb mistakes I had been making. Again Thanks alot for the input.
OBTW my callsign is "TXFal"

[blur]

Gazoo, you have an interesting site. I hate to be anal but your animated GIF shows a Hurricane Mark 1.  

[CRASH]

U can use spit flaps to drop ur nose faster at the top of a slow immel.
CRASH

[Gazoo]

blur, u are the 2nd guy to notice in over 7000 hits hehe.  Didn't have any good spitfire footage.

------------------
"Just Plane Nuts"
Gazoo
 http://plaza.v-wave.com/SolarStorm/index.htm