Schwimmwagen

[frank3]

Can anyone supply me with some pics/info a German Schwimmwagen/Kubelwagen?
I saw one in Bf1942 Secret Weapons and wondered if it really existed.

Tnx

[Staga]

http://www.skalman.nu/waffen-ss/5.htm
http://www.panzer-modell.de/referenz/fotoecke/schwimmwagen.jpg

[hogenbor]

Oh sure they existed. It's a derivative of the more famous 'Kübelwagen' (bucket car), the German Jeep. I have some pictures from a few years ago, made in the Volkswagen museum in Wolfsburg, Germany. They were built especially for the SS.

The Schwimmwagen (like the Kübelwagen) is based on the early Volkswagen Beetle chassis and shares the running gear with that car.

Adolf Hitler wanted a cheap car for the masses in the 1930's and ordered Ferdinand Porsche's engineering firm to design it. A huge factory was built (it still is in use today and stretches the length of Wolfsburg city) but before production got up to speed war broke out and the factory switched to war production. Before the end of the war fewer than 1000 actual Beetles were built. After the war the British took over, got the factory running again and handed it back to the Germans in 1948 or so. The rest is history.

[HoHun]

Hi Hogenbor,

>After the war the British took over, got the factory running again and handed it back to the Germans in 1948 or so.

Well, actually the British encouraged the Germans to get the factory running again, and were happy to be supplied with Beetles for the occupation force.

>Adolf Hitler wanted a cheap car for the masses in the 1930's and ordered Ferdinand Porsche's engineering firm to design it.

I'm no automobile expert, but I've seen the first "beetle" at the Collection Schloump at Mulhouse - it had a Mercedes star on the hood. If I remember correctly, it had been designed by Béla Bárenyi who later invented the collapsible zone.

However, Daimler-Benz and the rest the German automotive industry didn't believe the people's car could be successfully produced and sold at the 1000 Reichsmark demanded by Hitler, so he had to found a special factory to get the Volkswagen into production.

Even RM 1000 was pretty expensive in these days, and there was an elaborate saving scheme that was intended to give "the masses" the opportunity to purchase a Volkswagen while raising capital for production. Due to the war, the funds thus raised went into the war production effort, noone ever got a Volkswagen for his money, and only few got (some of) their money back - well in the 1950s and after endless lawsuits.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[DiabloTX]

History of VOLKSWAGEN

          In 1934, the Nazi government, through an organization known as the Imperial Union of Automobile Manufacture, commissioned Ferdinand Porsche to begin designing ‘the People’s Car’: Volkswagen. Theoretically the time it was going to take to plan and put the Volkswagen into mass production was going to be four years. The first Volkswagen was ready in 1935. In 1936, its two following prototypes were rigorously tested on a stretch of over 50 000 kilometers. In 1937, the next series, marked VW 30 and consisting of thirty automobiles, was launched and underwent testing on a stretch of over 2.4 million kilometers. The results of the testing were found satisfactory and in 1938 Volkswagen attained its final mechanical and exterior design. A factory for the production of these automobiles was built and preparations began for the launch into mass production. But only a limited number of automobiles were produced before the Second World War began.  During the war, the factory produced all terrain jeeps and marine vehicles – ‘Everything for the Needs of the Reich’. By the end of the war it had produced around 66000 all terrain jeeps and armored personnel carriers. After the war, the factory came under the control of England. The plant was repaired and soon proved its worth, by fulfilling an order for 20000 automobiles. Soon Volkswagen was flooded with by orders. It opened one factory after another and became the modern giant it is now. In the 1970s Volkswagen introduced three new models: Passat, Golf and Sirocco, which mechanically had nothing in common with any of Volkswagen’s previous models. Modifications of Passat and Golf are still in production today. They have become classics in the world of automobile production.  The original Volkswagen, the Beetle, has to be mentioned separately. It beat all records of popularity and was the number one automobile in the world for many decades. The 90s saw the creation of ‘the New Beetle’, a remake of the old model. In Russia there are over 350 000 registered Volkswagens. This brand is third in popularity after Toyota and Opel.


Found at this website

[BUG_EAF322]

I have some pics of them but posting them is made to much effort to find out.

VW Beetle a car with a long history no doubt.

I have a 1303 VW and a passat

VOLKSWAGEN is the best!!!

[hogenbor]

Originally posted by HoHun
Hi Hogenbor,

>After the war the British took over, got the factory running again and handed it back to the Germans in 1948 or so.

Well, actually the British encouraged the Germans to get the factory running again, and were happy to be supplied with Beetles for the occupation force.

>Adolf Hitler wanted a cheap car for the masses in the 1930's and ordered Ferdinand Porsche's engineering firm to design it.

I'm no automobile expert, but I've seen the first "beetle" at the Collection Schloump at Mulhouse - it had a Mercedes star on the hood. If I remember correctly, it had been designed by Béla Bárenyi who later invented the collapsible zone.

Even RM 1000 was pretty expensive in these days, and there was an elaborate saving scheme that was intended to give "the masses" the opportunity to purchase a Volkswagen while raising capital for production. Due to the war, the funds thus raised went into the war production effort, noone ever got a Volkswagen for his money, and only few got (some of) their money back - well in the 1950s and after endless lawsuits.

Did I imply the British didn't encourage the Germans to get the factory running? That's exactly wat happened. They might have regretted it later though

There is no doubt in my mind that Porsche designed the Beetle. The idea of using a rear mounted engine with a streamlined body was very much in vogue in the 1930's. Béla Bárenyi claimed after the war that he designed it and indeed it cannot be denied that his ideas were incorporated into what was to become the beetle. He knew Porsche personally but I have to look into my library what their exact relationship was. As a sidenote, one of the first series (VW30) of protobeetles was built by Daimler-Benz, with some reluctance.

Do you know the identity of the car you saw in Mulhouse? It might very well be a Mercedes with a rear mounted engine of the period. I found an interesting link about the Mercedes 170, might be inspired by work on the Beetle:

http://www.voitures-d-ingenieurs.com/mercedes_170h.htm

Although the remark that Hitler lost patience does seem incorrect, most sources state that Porsche's machine ship simply could not produce 30 cars quickly.

I do know of the saving scheme and the lawsuits... intriguing history for that odd little car.

Anyway, denying Porsche the beetle seems a bit far fetched...

I have a T3 bus from 1981, last of the beetle's descendants, rear engined, air cooled. It looks and drives like cr*p though and the ignition is busted... expensive mistake.

[HoHun]

Hi Hogenbor,

>Béla Bárenyi claimed after the war that he designed it and indeed it cannot be denied that his ideas were incorporated into what was to become the beetle. He knew Porsche personally but I have to look into my library what their exact relationship was. As a sidenote, one of the first series (VW30) of protobeetles was built by Daimler-Benz, with some reluctance.

From the site you quoted:

"Several prototypes [Mercedes 130 H] were made from 1928 (by Porsche) to 1932 and 1934 by Hans Nibbel."

Bárenyi apparently had worked at Steyr with Porsche.

>Do you know the identity of the car you saw in Mulhouse?

I'll try to find the picture I made.

>Anyway, denying Porsche the beetle seems a bit far fetched...

It seems he designed it several times over :-) Some comments I've read suggest that Bárenyi's claim might go back to a theoretical work in the 1920s where he described just the layout of a Käfer type car.

I wouldn't go so far to deny any of the engineers involved their share of the fame, I'm sure they all contributed :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Shiva]

Originally posted by frank3
Can anyone supply me with some pics/info a German Schwimmwagen/Kubelwagen?
I saw one in Bf1942 Secret Weapons and wondered if it really existed.

Schwimmwagen

Photo gallery, history, sales...

Kubelwagen

And, for the people interested in odd German vehicles:

Kettenkrad

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