Author Topic: body armor for troops in Iraq (Read 1025 times)

strk · « **on:** October 14, 2003, 07:04:00 AM »

this is bs - strk

U.S. Troops' Body Armor Delayed

Tuesday, October 14, 2003; Page A05

Nearly one-quarter of the 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq still have not been issued a new type of ceramic body armor strong enough to stop bullets fired from assault rifles.

Delays in funding, production and shipping mean it will be December before all troops in Iraq will have the vests, which were introduced four years ago, military officials said.

Congress approved $310 million in April to buy 300,000 more of the bulletproof vests, with 30,000 destined to complete outfitting of the troops in Iraq. Of that money, however, only about $75 million has reached the Army office responsible for overseeing the vests' manufacture and distribution, said David Nelson, an official in that office.

Angry members of Congress said as many as 44,000 troops -- significantly more than the Pentagon's figure -- lack the vests due to the sluggish supply chain. Relatives of some soldiers have resorted to buying body armor in the United States and shipping it to their troops, congressional critics said.

The Interceptor vests include removable ceramic plates in the front and back that can stop bullets such as the rounds fired by Kalashnikov rifles common in Iraq and Afghanistan. Older-model vests can protect against shrapnel and other low-speed projectiles but not high-velocity rifle rounds.

© 2003 The Washington Post Company

Toad · « **Reply #1 on:** October 14, 2003, 08:57:57 AM »

Yeah, that is an outrage. Know when the Interceptor vests were developed?

The Interceptor vests were introduced in the 1990s.

Gotta wonder what took so long, eh?

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 14, 2003, 09:14:46 AM »

The department of the Treasury can get US$33,000,000 to promote the new $20 bill, but we can't get bulletproof vests to our soldiers in the field?

Nice.

anonymous · « **Reply #3 on:** October 14, 2003, 09:24:32 AM »

delays are from production line not supply chain. wasnt enough companies making the interceptor and the ones making it werent making enough a month. reason for not everyone having interceptor is armored guys werent issued interceptor but they getting them now. specops have had them since they showed up.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2003, 09:38:32 AM »

Something tells me that this issue is a whole lot more complicated than the little Washington Post blurb or the righteous indignation of some of the posters would lead one to believe.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Toad · « **Reply #5 on:** October 14, 2003, 09:49:49 AM »

Been doing some looking on this.

Quote

The shortages come down to money and priorities. In 1998, Interceptors were available and issued to armies around the world. However, the U.S. military treats the replacement of body armor as any other "general-issue item." Thus, five years ago the military brass decided to implement a one-for-one exchange of new-for-old vests over a 10-year period. The military recently moved to increase production.

A question of priorities then. I would have to opine that the individual nearly always comes last in the procurement chain when there are way-kewl new weapons systems like the Crusader to dump tons of money on.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2003, 09:53:21 AM »

Its BOOSHES fault!:mad:

mauser · « **Reply #7 on:** October 14, 2003, 12:09:38 PM »

Here's a link to a thread on another forum with a couple more articles, one from LA Times and the other from NYT:

http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum66/HTML/000231.html

Those guys are peeved that there are some shady characters selling vests on E-bay to whomever... Plus family members of active duty trying to buy vests for their relatives because the supply system hasn't gotten to them (yet?).

mauser

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #8 on:** October 14, 2003, 02:43:18 PM »

It's not about the vests themselves. The new ones won't stop rifle caliber rounds any better than the old ones. The only thing that does stop rifle caliber rounds is class 4 armor which is ceramic plate.

crabofix · « **Reply #9 on:** October 14, 2003, 05:40:39 PM »

If you guys gonna let ypur soldiers run around in that heat with a class 4 +40 lbs west, there will be more people dying from heartattacks and heat, then from gunfire.
(Its not that many that have been shoot, most have been blown up).

And that ceramic plate stops a ak47 bullet? ok, but does it stop a 30-06 or a 7,62x54 R?

NOPE:eek:

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #10 on:** October 14, 2003, 05:47:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by crabofix
If you guys gonna let ypur soldiers run around in that heat with a class 4 +40 lbs west, there will be more people dying from heartattacks and heat, then from gunfire.
(Its not that many that have been shoot, most have been blown up).

And that ceramic plate stops a ak47 bullet? ok, but does it stop a 30-06 or a 7,62x54 R?

NOPE:eek:

Pretty good odds actually, the plates are rated for 7.62x51mm nato ball. 30-06 and 7.63x54r are only a little more powerful so anything short of point blank would be stopped.

crabofix · « **Reply #11 on:** October 14, 2003, 05:54:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Pretty good odds actually, the plates are rated for 7.62x51mm nato ball. 30-06 and 7.63x54r are only a little more powerful so anything short of point blank would be stopped.

Nope, It goes trough the ceramic plate at 100 yards, done that to about 6 Swedishmade vests and 4 US made.
The only vest that can take it is the Russian one, but they dont use ceramics in the vest=HEAVY. (got a little dent on 100 yards From 30-06 and from 7,62x54 R it got a little deeper dent).

crabofix · « **Reply #12 on:** October 14, 2003, 06:04:00 PM »

I better tell that I have great experience with Bodyarmour. My Firm executed the prior tests of Bodyarmour sent to the UN troops in former Jugoslavia.

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #13 on:** October 14, 2003, 06:42:45 PM »

On a good note the vast majority of fire would be 7.62x39. Is this the newest shock plate you are talking about? There are two versions in current front line use by the US military. They are both rated for 7.62x51 mm though the newest one says 7.62x51 nato ball (AP) on it.

Don't forget that it is mounted inside of a vest rated for class 3 as well. I'm not sure how much it adds but it's a fair amount. Either way, the best plan is to avoid getting shot...

crabofix · « **Reply #14 on:** October 14, 2003, 08:40:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
On a good note the vast majority of fire would be 7.62x39. Is this the newest shock plate you are talking about? There are two versions in current front line use by the US military. They are both rated for 7.62x51 mm though the newest one says 7.62x51 nato ball (AP) on it.

Don't forget that it is mounted inside of a vest rated for class 3 as well. I'm not sure how much it adds but it's a fair amount. Either way, the best plan is to avoid getting shot...

You see, everything NATO has is rated 7,62x51 as class 4. Now the 7,62x54 R is a very powerful round and used with many "russian" equipt armys. By snipers and machinegunners.
The class 3 vest does nothing. Do you know how a vest works and what the kevlar does to the bullet? It traps it by making a "twist". But, after one shoot, it is weakened.

Class 3+plate makes class 4

Class 1 takes knifes shootguns 22 caliber, class 2 takes 9mm, (not the swedish 9mm) class 3 5,56 class 4 7,62x51