Author Topic: Advice on CPU + video card  (Read 1250 times)

Offline mrblack

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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2003, 12:31:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BB Gun
*shrug* you had to spend HOW much on that cooling system for that?


BB


I spent 1.100.00 for the cooling system.
But you can buy them cheaper from suppliers in england.
DO NOT buy from USA resellers.
You will pay twice as much like i did:mad:
You can expect to pay 600-700 bucks.
but that is for case and every thing.

http://www.chip-con.com
« Last Edit: October 18, 2003, 12:39:24 AM by mrblack »

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2003, 12:55:46 AM »
Skuzzy says 9600 Pro is the way to go as far as best bang for fewest bucks is concerned. I think I'll go with that and hold him liable. ;)

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2003, 12:58:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Skuzzy says 9600 Pro is the way to go as far as best bang for fewest bucks is concerned. I think I'll go with that and hold him liable. ;)


Bingo.  That's solid advice.

Any suggestions on the CPU?

Offline bloom25

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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2003, 01:05:55 AM »
MrBlack, you obvously aren't comparing against the new Athlon 64 chips.  The Athlon 64 series CPUs have a 1600 MHz effective link to the Northbridge, which is the closest thing they have to a FSB.  It is a 800 MHz DDR Hypertransport link, or 1600 MHz SDR effective.  (So I guess you are right, "no matter what you do with AMD you won't get 1200 MHz" - you get 1600 MHz stock. ;) )  Since the Athlon 64s have an on-die memory controller, they don't even have a traditional external Front Side Bus like any other CPU.  Their link to the on-die memory controller runs at full processor speed.  This greatly reduces memory latency, and along with the 1 MB L2 cache, is the primary reason for their improved performance over the Athlon XPs.  When it comes to overall gaming performance, nothing can touch the new Athlon 64 FX 51.

You should be careful comparing Intel and AMD chips based on FSB speed alone.  The Pentium 4 'C's use a 200 MHz QDR (quad data rate) bus, which gives an effective rate of 800 MHz.  The Athlon XP 3200+ (the "old" Barton core) uses at 200 MHz DDR (double data rate) bus, 400 MHz effective.  Notice that the fundamental clock rate is the same.  The theoretical latencies of AMDs "400 MHz" FSB and Intel's "800 MHz" FSB are the same.  The maximum available bandwidth is the only difference.  There are such tremendous architectural differences between the Barton and Northwood cores that affect performance that comparing raw FSB speeds alone really doesn't mean much.

Since the Athlon 64 3200+ and Athlon 64 FX 51 are still out of the price range for most of us, I'd say the best bang for the buck ratio is still either the Intel 2.4 'C' or the Athlon 2500+.  Both of these are also highly overclockable.  At stock speeds they perform roughly the same, especially in gaming.  The P4 has a definate edge in media encoding (video and to a lesser extent audio) and the Athlon has an edge in office applications and scientific/engineering applications.

When it comes to gaming, the video card is by far the main limiting factor.  I'd say the best bang for the buck there is going to be either the $199 ATI Radeon 9600 PRO and/or XT or the hard to find $250 Radeon 9800 standard.  I personally feel ATI has the edge over nVidia at the moment, but the GeForce 4 Titanium 4200 is still a pretty fast card that can be found for around $120.  I don't care much for the GeForce FX series.

Offline JB73

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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2003, 01:07:01 AM »
LMAO mrblack ... he was asking about a basic system ...

not some frankenstein 1337 hax0r m4ch1n3 with a cooling system worth more than 2/3 my whole tower.



btw a stock P4 has no chance against AMD period... that i know.

i also know AMD overheat faster while overclocking so thats a totally different conversation.

is that cooling sys freon based?
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Tarmac

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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2003, 01:48:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
Bingo.  That's solid advice.

Any suggestions on the CPU?


What's the bus speed on your motherboard and RAM?

Offline BB Gun

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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2003, 03:37:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrblack
I spent 1.100.00 for the cooling system.
...
You can expect to pay 600-700 bucks.
but that is for case and every thing.


Case closed.

whats the point of spending 700 bucks on a cooling system to get an extra 15-20% speed?

Your money, your choice.  Me, I'd rather get a second system.  For 700 bucks, a rather NICE system, too. :p

Martlett - set your price level first.  Budget is what you have to set for total cost.

Quote
At newegg - ON SALE!
SAPPHIRE OEM RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB DVI/TV 8X AGP Video Card for $301.00 Free Fedex Saver Shipping!


If you opt for a radeon9600Pro and a Barton 2500, you're spending about 250.  if you go 9600Pro and a Barton 2800, you're spending about 350.

For that price range, skip the processor upgrade and get the 9800 Pro.    I am not sure if the KT333 chipset will change a Barton Multiplier, I'd have to do more research.  Manual says it has a BIOS setting for changing CPU ratio, but not sure if it supports Barton-like numbers.

If you set your price level higher, sure, get the 2500.  It will only help.  :)

BB
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Offline Skuzzy

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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2003, 08:35:00 AM »
Just read a report on a test of a 9600XT.  Now this card comes with a stock core of 500Mhz.  This guy got a stable overclock of 212Mhz.  Yes, 712Mhz core.  Insane.

I am curious as to how well the low-k die will hold up in the long haul.  bloom, you have any insight on that?
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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2003, 08:49:47 AM »
Looks like i wont regret buying the 9600XT (Connect3D).. payed 180$ for it... may be cheaper in the US tho.

Getting it on Monday/Tuesday.

Offline BB Gun

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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2003, 02:03:35 PM »
Just to clarify - since you're CPU is already a  2000+, the Radeon9800Pro gives you better bang for buck and better longevity than a radeon9600+barton2500.

If your processor was in the 1 GHz range, I'd have recommended the 9600Pro/XT+barton2500 upgrade path.

My recent experience going from an unoverclockable albatron PX45PEVPro/PIV 1.8 combo  (dunno if motherboard or chip, but the thing wouldn't even accept 1 MHz of FSB overclock without crashing the system) to a Barton2500+/Epox8RDA3+ combo overcocked to Barton2800+ specs with same graphics card (Radeon9500Pro) increased my 3dmark scores by about 35%.  What it did for gameplay (in WarbirdsIII) was allow me to go from the occasional stutter/blurryness/slowdown through smoke to smooth 60+ framerates under all conditions all the time in WBIII at 1024x768 at 2XAA and 8XAF.  But that was an effective 1 GHz upgrade, about a 60% CPU performance increase.  Barton2500 over XP2000+ is only a 25% cpu increase, which, if my results are "typical" would only give you a10-15% game performance increase.

BB
« Last Edit: October 18, 2003, 02:05:57 PM by BB Gun »
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Offline mrblack

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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2003, 02:11:49 PM »
Speed man Greasy speed is where it's at.
And I can pop a prescott in as soon as they com out.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2003, 03:58:23 PM »
I don't know how to overclock.  My cpu is just how I got it.

Offline mrblack

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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2003, 04:43:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
I don't know how to overclock.  My cpu is just how I got it.


You can over clock buy going into you're bios settings.
But be VERY carefull temp will have to be monitored carefully as not to mess up you're CPU.
If you're not comfortable with doing it DON'T.
Just enjoy you're new rig and have fun.

Offline mrblack

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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2003, 04:44:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB73


not some frankenstein 1337 hax0r m4ch1n3 with a cooling system worth more than 2/3 my whole tower.


 


IT'S ALIVE IT'S ALIVE

Offline mrblack

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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2003, 04:49:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BB Gun


whats the point of spending 700 bucks on a cooling system to get an extra 15-20% speed?




BB


The point is I am running at 3.7 GHz
For the price of a 2.4GHz

I am unaware of a faster desktop CPU than that!
Unless ofcoures it's another prometiea cooled 3.2GHz overclocked to 4.3GHz and yes they are out there LOL.
Also when the prescotts hit the shelves I can pop one in and
Over clock that bad boy too!
So it goes on and on forever going faster and faster:aok
If Intel comes out with a 5.0GHz CPU I will have it running at 6.0GHz.
Now do you see my point:D