Incendiary .50 Cal

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Maverick:
Fishu,

I don't recall anyone mentioning B17's. And the "armor" on B17's tanks was pretty damn weak.

Only REALLY armored plane was the from soviets.

Maybe I am not talking of 10mm armor?

And ok, .50 caliber is all mighty and can make its way through 50mm of solid steel with AP and at least 20mm with rubber.

[Maverick]

<yawn> Fishu, let me know when you say something worth knowing about.

[2Cool]

While we are talking about MG ammo, I am at loss why the russian 12,7 mm seems to be so weak?
Correct me if I am wrong but it is my understanding that the russian 12,7mm has faster muzzle velocity (shell case is 10mm longer, I have no info on projectile weight) and greater rate of fire than the american .50 BMG. Yet I have the impression that in AH it seems much weaker than .50 cal.
 

2Cool

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"It isn't allways bein' fast or even accurate that counts; it's bein' willing."

[This message has been edited by 2Cool (edited 10-30-2000).]

[-lazs-]

I would suggest that you visit the sites that hooligan has mentioned.   He has done a lot of research on the subject.   There really is no armor that an AP/I round will not penetrate at any angle less than 45 degrees or so.  

As Holligan says... We need to up the power of all the MG's to compensate for the lack of damage points and incenderary effects in AH.  certainly 10-30% or so would give us more realistic results compared to the cannon in WB.   As more realistic effects are added the power can be re-evaluated.

Might be nice to see a few more DHogs around eh?

fishu... no one said anything about 50mm of armor and late war jap planes did indeed have armor and self sealing tanks.  I would suggest that you do a little bit of research before posting to avoid bi-lingual ignorance.
lazs

[This message has been edited by -lazs- (edited 10-30-2000).]

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by -lazs-:
I would suggest that you visit the sites that hooligan has mentioned.   He has done a lot of research on the subject.   There really is no armor that an AP/I round will not penetrate at any angle less than 45 degrees or so.  

As Holligan says... We need to up the power of all the MG's to compensate for the lack of damage points and incenderary effects in AH.  certainly 10-30% or so would give us more realistic results compared to the cannon in WB.   As more realistic effects are added the power can be re-evaluated.

Might be nice to see a few more DHogs around eh?

fishu... no one said anything about 50mm of armor and late war jap planes did indeed have armor and self sealing tanks.  I would suggest that you do a little bit of research before posting to avoid bi-lingual ignorance.
lazs

[This message has been edited by -lazs- (edited 10-30-2000).]

I hope you're not talking about comparison between Hispano/M2 and .50 caliber, because that sort of raise would up .50 caliber next to MG151/20 and ShVAK...

BUT how about decrease of Hispano/M2 to more realistic levels with MG151/20 and ShVAK?
I surely do believe that Hispano/M2 is over twice better than other two. (..not)
That gun simply can't be 37mm AP gun and 30mm HE gun same time..

[Westy]

 And while you're at it, decrease the lethality of the 109's flying with under wing gunpods along with the 30mm cannon!!!

 They make the 1C guns look like paper spit wads in comparison.

  -Westy

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Westy:
And while you're at it, decrease the lethality of the 109's flying with under wing gunpods along with the 30mm cannon!!!

 They make the 1C guns look like paper spit wads in comparison.

  -Westy

and while you're at it, I think that spitfire with 2 hispanos does alot more..

My own experiences after flying 109s with gondoles for buff hunting and spitfires...

With Spitfire I've managed to kill buffs on one pass, just blows up the whole buff.. or wing snaps off.. but no other damages made before.
With 109 and all the possible armament (3x20mm or 2x20mm and 1x30mm) I've just managed to hurt them on first pass and luckily only managed to blow them up.
Usually I see nice smoke trails after first pass.. (I did recently use 109 with 3x20mm, I smoked B-26s both fuel tanks in right wing and its engine.. GREAAAT.. and just in last flight with spitfire I blew b17 up to sky high with 30 used rounds)
I might also add here that I shoot from close distance with 109s..

30mm seems more like toy to me against buffs.. its nothing but crap beyond 300 yards and when it hits buffs, I don't see much happen to buff even if one area gets hit by 3 30mm..
so far i've need at least 5 hits of 30mm into buff to bring it down... (I'd think that 3-4 would be enough in stabilizers)

[Westy]

 Buff hunting?    I'm refering to "pilots" flying these stacked and loaded 109's in low alt (20,15k and much less)  furballs against other fighters.

 They are UBER! And as when looked at in a holistic package point of view they are over modelled! There is next to no FM penalty and they are instant death.  Even I replicated the silliness using a 109-G6. I found that the plane  still climbs and turns like a dream in spite of all that weight and drag from the "death-pods" slung out underneath each wings.

 I think gun pods should be disabled in the arena and used in special events or else only let them be effective against bombers.

   -Westy
 



[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-30-2000).]

[SageFIN]

It's the trajectory and potetial for destuction combined. Search your feelings Luke, you know it's true.

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SageFIN

"The wolves are gathering, the stars are shifting...
come, join us in the hunt!"
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[LJK Raubvogel]

Yes, please take all the cannon off the ME109 and give it only 7.9mm MG. It is terribly uber, and there is no way a GE plane should have any kind of respectable firepower. It also takes way too much damage. 1 near miss should easily disable this thing. As it is, it takes over 2 or 3 hits to blow it up. Something must be done to stop this menace.

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

If certain 109s with pods are being used a lot and  sucessfuly vs fighters, then there is something very wrong with the  gunpods FM. Many LW pilots simply refused to fly with the damn things on later 109Gs.( but of coure you could see this as just another one of my useless pilots ac bigtoes)

thanks GRUNHERZ

[Fishu]

Actually those pods do affect quite seriously in the performance of Me109, but it does NOT mean that you're carrying 1000kg bomb underneath you.
no no no...

I can see very well nose heavyness and poorer climb rate with pods in any of the 109s, which for I use pods only if I have to hunt buffs in 109.
I prefer 109 without pods, because then I have lighter controls over it and it climbs better.

I wonder where from you guys get the idea that 109 should be like a rock with pods, I really doubt the thing was this.. it was just that pods made the thing nose heavy according to the real pilots and decreased performance due to weight.

and FM penalty was added to 109 in the beta already, as I remember Pyro stating so.

But well.. let's remove all guns like Raubvogel suggested, because theres no way that 109 was a great fighter.

Wake up guys, Me109 is one of the best fighters of World War II.

Also use of gunpods in AH does not risk your life as it does in real life, where you try to get your plane to be as good as you can have it. (in real life, its one life.. in AH, its multiple lives)


Ok.. now when we're at it, let's take a look at Typhoon and its 2000lb bomb load FM.....

[Toad]

Mav, you and I won't live that long.

 

[bloom25]

I'm pretty sure Pyro has stated before that the US M2 50cal MGs are firing API ammo.



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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[Westy]

Fishu, I'm not saying the 109 is the worste figther in WWII. It was one of the best, only one of two basic fighters the Germans used anyway.

But the point is even with the 1C cannon I at least get the sound of multiple pings when I die. With the UBER 109 BFG20/30 guns all I hear os the start fo a ping, like this;  "pi____ <KaBoOom>" and I'm dead, back at the tower. No damage. Complete obliteration every time. And this all occurs in slow "Zeke territory" turn fighting.
 
  Something's porked!

 -Westy