Author Topic: squad ops..  (Read 1934 times)

Offline Flossy

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squad ops..
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2003, 12:18:15 PM »
Guys.... the SquadOps are what you, the participants, make it.  It seems to me that for some reason the participants of the Sunday SquadOps do not work as well together as those involved in the Friday SquadOPs - why else would the Friday SquadOps be so successful and popular?  We are the same people organising both events, yet one is more successful than the other; that can only mean the difference is the actual players.

I think the problem with Sunday SquadOps is there is not enough team-work.  Most squads are happy to fly anything if it helps their side to win, but there are a significant few in SSO who simply don't turn up if they don't get what they want.  This is not in the spirit of the SquadOps!  If your squad is assigned bombers - fly them!  If you get bombers again in the next frame, contact the CO and point out you had them last time he may be able to swop you.  If it's not possible, fly them again and speak up in good time before the next one.  Talk to each other - that's what this forum is here for.  It is just not acceptable to simply not turn up - apart from letting your side down, you let the whole event down and we get threads like this appearing.

We as CMs can only do so much - in the end it is up to you, the players, to make sure orders are out in good time, your minimum committed levels turn up for each frame and you carry out the orders to the best of your ability, regardless of what you are asked to fly.  

I appreciate the difficulties with not having a central point for Squads to keep their details or email contacts at the moment, but can assure you Gremlin is working hard to get something in place sometime over the next couple of months, so your patience would be appreciated in the meantime.

I am sorry things didn't work out well for some of you in yesterday's frame, but most of the problems were out of our hands.  Maybe time for you all to work together more to make the Sunday SquadOps more successful?  :)
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Offline icemaw

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« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2003, 12:41:22 PM »
The 11 temps show because the 56 had a change of plan at the last moment. We ditched our eggs when we spawned. Then it was decided that we needed them. So before we took off we went back to the tower and respawned with the eggs. Only 6 temps flew into combat regardless of how many spawned.
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Offline SELECTOR

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squad ops..
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2003, 01:01:14 PM »
it wasn't the planes that did us in .. it was the being vulched on the runway...

i think a way of making sunday squad ops more popular is getting them to run on time..The organisers may want to check the system a little earlyer.i entered the arena 25 min before start and there was no one there..also all this alt restrictions is garbage 2 weeks in a row we been assigned p47 you can not compete with most planes at 10k and below. i tried a loop manover last week and went over 10k almost ended up in a diferent sector..very arcadish...i want my squad ops to be best man wins and do anything to achive that win..

( remember for fridays squad ops the europeans are all tucked up in bed..where as the sunday SO they have to compete with the american mid afternoon croud..its a no win situation..)

Offline Flossy

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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2003, 01:32:46 PM »
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
The organisers may want to check the system a little earlyer.i entered the arena 25 min before start and there was no one there..
So there was nobody in the arena 25 minutes before the start?  Maybe not - but the arena was all set up ready and the only reason Skyman (hosting CM) was not there was because he had a Windows crash between setting up and the event starting and had to reinstall.  He had already posted the problem in the CM forum so that someone could cover if necessary, but as it turned out he managed to get done in time anyway.
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Offline Strange

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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2003, 01:37:58 PM »
An "Alt Cap" with a P-47!!!  :(

Offline Gremlin

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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2003, 01:48:20 PM »
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
i think a way of making sunday squad ops more popular is getting them to run on time..The organisers may want to check the system a little earlyer.i entered the arena 25 min before start and there was no one there..


Selector you seem to have a thing about punctuality.  Thats fine, but you must realise that CMs have real lives too.  I happen to know that Skyman was working like a man possessed just to be able to make it at all.  His system went belly up that afternoon and he needed to completely rebuild it.  Not your problem, but you know stuff happens.

Maybe you could ask yourself this,  why did you have to go to the MA??  Would it not have been more productive if you stayed put and assisted your CO with the planning process.  I happen to know that Vladd had some pretty good rides up for grabs during the period you were away.  If you had stayed you could have claimed them.

Also looking at the logs, it makes no sense to me how you can say you were vulched 'on the runway'.  The your pilots were in the air way long enough to fight your corner.  So your real point comes down to being given P47-25s again.  Did you once ask for another ride?? If you did I certainly didnt hear it

As for the 12k alt limit, you must realise that this was a jabo event,  it was not designed for alt monkeying, without it you would have been up against 35k 262s, and there would be no jabo rides making it to target with 30k cap covering the targets.

Whether you agree with the alt limit or not, one thing that I know would have upset people is to see enemy planes violating this.  Thus the wind layer is the only method we have to enforce an alt limit. Like it or not it was the same for both sides so as you say, it is a case of 'the best man wins'.

Offline ramzey

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squad ops..
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2003, 02:14:19 PM »
its time to close door and turn off the light?

Offline ViFF

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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2003, 03:33:16 PM »
Ramzey, I don't think your negative comments are helping at all.

Heres two suggestions for you:

a) Apply to become a CM,  once your part of the team maybe you can run these events the way you think is right.

b) Leave the light on, close the door, but don't let it hit your prettythang on the way out.... cause there are enough folks here that still have fun in this event.

cheers

Offline ramzey

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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2003, 03:59:06 PM »
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Originally posted by ViFF
Ramzey, I don't think your negative comments are helping at all.

Heres two suggestions for you:

a) Apply to become a CM,  once your part of the team maybe you can run these events the way you think is right.

b) Leave the light on, close the door, but don't let it hit your prettythang on the way out.... cause there are enough folks here that still have fun in this event.

cheers


very thx for this excellent advices!!!
in my dumb brain i cannot find so simply solutions and you bright me!!! thx men!!

a) I can be in CM corps after somone dead body ;-) if you know what im talking about

b) stay away from my prettythang, im lesbian not gey
better list your sins

ramzey
« Last Edit: October 20, 2003, 04:10:15 PM by ramzey »

Offline daddog

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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2003, 05:22:51 PM »
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I can be in CM corps after somone dead body ;-) if you know what im talking about
lol I said that about seeker once and now look at him. And I was the one that let him in! Of course you would have to get by flossy. I don't make those kinds of decisions any more. ;)

As for the SSO why would you fly in it if you would want us to consider ending it ramzey? Just want to understand your actions and thinking.
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Offline ramzey

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« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2003, 10:18:47 PM »
Sir


Me and Seeker understand each other quite good;)

I dont like to be CM right now, i can do same things being outside corps.
I still count on som things whichone should be done long time ago, and Flossy know what im talking about ;-)

I not like experiments again, this tour proof NEW not mean good,
Rightnow we stand in same point like 8 months ago.
And som people never learn 0on his own mistakes.


better i just shut up right now

best regards
ramzey

Offline lucull

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« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2003, 11:30:51 PM »
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You must be kidding,somone in the MA told you, and on the basis of that you then come to this and some other pretty unsubstantive opinions you come to this board and slam the whole SSO??


Is a participating player not a source for this and didn't I checked logs before I posted? I think I explained sufficiently, why I thought allied had 11 Tempests and I found the mistake.
I will email innomi8 about the flaw in his script.
Did anybody slam the whole event by this? I don't see it, help me pls. ;)

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As far as orders were concerned you were given your assignment in good time. WHy does CiC's contact details (or lack thereof) make for a bad SSO?

Ahm, you didn't read correct, I complain because I was CiC in frame 2.
If you have to dig for numbers and emails, it's not good, or?
That's something the admin CM should have or on which base does he assign the squads to the sides or email the CiCs the orders?

And how does he tell the setup CM, how he wants to have the front line? Isn't a map with it a good way and prevents mistakes when you just write the numbers, which always could have a number turned?
Anyway, is it so much work to do that? If it helps your setup and the CiC?

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Isnt it true that what this really boils down to is that when some people dont perform to their undoubted potential then they blame the event??

Dolt :rofl

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Guys.... the SquadOps are what you, the participants, make it. It seems to me that for some reason the participants of the Sunday SquadOps do not work as well together as those involved in the Friday SquadOPs - why else would the Friday SquadOps be so successful and popular? We are the same people organising both events, yet one is more successful than the other; that can only mean the difference is the actual players.

I suggest, you run the same setup on friday squad ops and we will have the answer to this question.

Sure, we are not a big family who loves each other in SSO (you and ghostdancer should know that better than anybody else, if you can remember), but you're making it yourself really easy blaming the players that they have no fun and leave this event. Really great.
And you do you compare US prime time with US sunday lunch time? :rofl

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I think the problem with Sunday SquadOps is there is not enough team-work. Most squads are happy to fly anything if it helps their side to win, but there are a significant few in SSO who simply don't turn up if they don't get what they want. This is not in the spirit of the SquadOps! If your squad is assigned bombers - fly them! If you get bombers again in the next frame, contact the CO and point out you had them last time he may be able to swop you. If it's not possible, fly them again and speak up in good time before the next one. Talk to each other - that's what this forum is here for. It is just not acceptable to simply not turn up - apart from letting your side down, you let the whole event down and we get threads like this appearing.


A little late and I guess the right people are not reached.
I told Viff, eventho I personnaly am not envious of 262s and 190D (308 flew them in frame 1), it stinks when the CiC assigns his own squad ALL restricted planes. This is of course no reason, why I didn't like "V1 Hunters", but I didn't say that. This was obviously directed to Viff, who see it as a privilege doing it looking at his answer.

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We as CMs can only do so much - in the end it is up to you, the players, to make sure orders are out in good time, your minimum committed levels turn up for each frame and you carry out the orders to the best of your ability, regardless of what you are asked to fly.


Of course, but has the setup nothing to do with the "fun" of an event. Should we just all meet at sunday and furball abit together, oh we did it like this. Dang!
Also I don't agree with squads switching sides. Not because I think that in this case MAG33 knew the orders and would abuse this knowledge, it's just bad for the tactical issue of the CiC. It leaves holes and you can't change the whole battle plan for this.
I would more like to see, that the goals would be adjusted for the really outnumbered side (for instance attack only one field, etc.).
Flexibility helps here a lot, but the admin/setup CM can also do his part. ;)
But those are my thoughts on this point.

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I appreciate the difficulties with not having a central point for Squads to keep their details or email contacts at the moment, but can assure you Gremlin is working hard to get something in place sometime over the next couple of months, so your patience would be appreciated in the meantime.


Frankly, how many month is the old server down now?
But that is not the problem, just read the CM orders from last SSO series.

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I am sorry things didn't work out well for some of you in yesterday's frame, but most of the problems were out of our hands. Maybe time for you all to work together more to make the Sunday SquadOps more successful?


I disagree. Frankly, your attitude is one of the problems SSO has.
I'm still waiting for Grayarea to assign his answers to my points I've written down. I would appreciate that, but I think, I've already said my opinion on most points.


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Maybe you could ask yourself this, why did you have to go to the MA?? Would it not have been more productive if you stayed put and assisted your CO with the planning process. I happen to know that Vladd had some pretty good rides up for grabs during the period you were away. If you had stayed you could have claimed them.

Not everybody likes to wait 30min in tower, especially when the setup CM says, it will take him 30min to setup the arena again. Well, skyman did it faster. Way to go man! But this caused the people who went to the MA coming late and vultched on the runway. Well 5min late are normally not a problem, but in this setup the planes reached the enemy field in 5min.
You should also consider how people feel, after waiting 25min, maybe not all went to MA, and being vulched otr. Even MA bish gangbang missions take more time to reach their target. :D

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As for the 12k alt limit, you must realise that this was a jabo event, it was not designed for alt monkeying, without it you would have been up against 35k 262s, and there would be no jabo rides making it to target with 30k cap covering the targets.

Cover, front sweep... you know what I mean?
262 in 35k? :rofl

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Like it or not it was the same for both sides so as you say, it is a case of 'the best man wins'.


IMO this alt cap handicapped the axis planes more then the allies looking on performance and recommended tactics for the planes. Forcing P47 and Doras into low level furball is a bad joke, sorry.
But I repeat it.
[sarcasm=on]
Please run this setup on friday. I wanna see this "great idea" used not only for the few people in SSO. Everybody should benfit from it.
[sarcasm=off]

Offline ViFF

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« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2003, 04:49:01 AM »
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As for the 12k alt limit, you must realise that this was a jabo event, it was not designed for alt monkeying, without it you would have been up against 35k 262s, and there would be no jabo rides making it to target with 30k cap covering the targets.


Gremlin & CM team, I completely disagree and am with 308Sqn on this one. Being too high while trying to protect a target from low level jabos is bad. Because of the short icon range they can get in and out without you ever knowing they were there.

By the time you see a field flashing the jabos are already on top of it releasing bombs, compression issues don't allow you to dive down quick enough to engage them, and by the time your down they are already on the way out of the field.

and imho there is nothing wrong with "alt monkeying".

Offline sling322

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« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2003, 06:25:08 AM »
What a friggin' joke.  I have never heard so much whining in my life.  Its kinda strange that it always comes from the same source.  If you dont like the events, 308th, then quit.  What you're doing now certainly isnt helping the event in any way.

As far as the server question that I saw somebody mention above....we lost our events server when Exile quit the CM team.  All the fine pages you used to see were all coded and hosted by Exile.  He did great work for us and we were all sorry to see him go, but guess what...he burnt out.  All the time he spent as a volunteeer working on those pages finally became too much and he needed a break.  He also needed his webspace back, so we were forced to try to find an alternative.  HTC said they would host the Events server.  Problem there was they were a little busy with this thing called AH2....you may have heard of it?

I know its been a pain in the bellybutton for the Friday nite guys to keep in contact and make sure that we have good contacts for all squads, but blaming this on the fact that there is no events server is nothing but a bad excuse.  If you really wanted to make this event as good as the Friday version, you could.  All it takes is a little more effort by all involved.  This whining will definitely get you nowhere.

Offline lucull

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« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2003, 07:22:13 AM »
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What a friggin' joke. I have never heard so much whining in my life. Its kinda strange that it always comes from the same source. If you dont like the events, 308th, then quit. What you're doing now certainly isnt helping the event in any way.


Well, I disagree. IMO there is a difference in whining and complaing and discussing the event and "new ideas". A CM should appreciate the input from the players rather than "shut up whiners, feel free to leave" attitude you have.
If discussions and critics are not welcome, of course I will leave, but I love flying events and it really takes a lot to spoil my fun doing it and I hope to prevent this writing down my points on this BB.
So, in my opinion you are whining about people discussing and critizising or did you use any arguments?
I'm curious, do you fly SSO?

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I know its been a pain in the bellybutton for the Friday nite guys to keep in contact and make sure that we have good contacts for all squads, but blaming this on the fact that there is no events server is nothing but a bad excuse. If you really wanted to make this event as good as the Friday version, you could. All it takes is a little more effort by all involved.


Let me quote myself: ;)

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But that is not the problem, just read the CM orders from last SSO series.

SSO has far less squads and therefor an easier to manage communication structure. You missed the point.

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I know its been a pain in the bellybutton for the Friday nite guys to keep in contact and make sure that we have good contacts for all squads, but blaming this on the fact that there is no events server is nothing but a bad excuse.

This argument is used by the CM team, everytime a communication problem occurs. I wonder if it's such "a pain in the prettythang", why it's like that since the beginning of the year?
Ever considered using a substitute meanwhile in the last month?
Just to be sure you don't missunderstand, this is not a big problem in SSO.

I want to add one thing to what Viff said. You can't make a Jabo attack coming in on the target from 30k for many reasons. You will loose people overspeeding in dive, you have to descend over (which is bad for surprise attacks) or in front of the target (which is a good tactic, but you would never climb with heavies to 30k.
Nobody is able to defend without a significant alt or speed advantage. You get also the scenario Viff desribed of incoming jabos, destroying everything in a fast attack and running home. Of course, that's the way to make it succesfully, but the defenders need a realistic chance, uh?