squad ops..2

[SELECTOR]

my original thread was locked down after some other members having a little misunderstanding..

so lets try again now we have all calmed down a little..

now im sure most of us want similar things out of this game so our differences shouldn't be to far apart..

we all know deep in our hearts that the organisers of these events are doing a good job..

the last event as a whole for me was a bad one.. because
the 10 k alt limit favoured the axis with out a doubt, next time its run no-one will want to be allied..

now the plane set up was a good one, and it could have been
a really cool SQ/O if we could have move our forces stratigicaly instead of a mass MA style furball stright in..

i understand that problems can occour at any time.
but the late start puts me off. when you have a large squad like the 332 usualy have its hard enough making sure everyone has the correct load and plane .. is at the correct field.. after the resett we had to go through it all again..then we were vulched on runway..we enter the arena aproxx 15 mins till T/O almost 40 mins to fly for a few seconds..

by flossy

So there was nobody in the arena 25 minutes before the start? Maybe not - but the arena was all set up ready

i was told by a squadmate that the same problems were to be had in CAP the night before..

[Grayarea]

Originally posted by SELECTOR
my original thread was locked down after some other members having a little misunderstanding..

so lets try again now we have all calmed down a little..

now im sure most of us want similar things out of this game so our differences shouldn't be to far apart..

we all know deep in our hearts that the organisers of these events are doing a good job..

1)the last event as a whole for me was a bad one.. because
the 10 k alt limit favoured the axis with out a doubt, next time its run no-one will want to be allied..

2)now the plane set up was a good one, and it could have been
a really cool SQ/O if we could have move our forces stratigicaly instead of a mass MA style furball stright in..

3)i understand that problems can occour at any time.but the late start puts me off. when you have a large squad like the 332 usualy have its hard enough making sure everyone has the correct load and plane .. is at the correct field.. after the resett we had to go through it all again..then we were vulched on runway..we enter the arena aproxx 15 mins till T/O almost 40 mins to fly for a few seconds..

by flossy
i was told by a squadmate that the same problems were to be had in CAP the night before..

1.Funny the axis squads were saying exactly the opposite.
2.This is an issue for the Frame CO of each side. I provide a set of open fields and someitmes a limit to where each plane can be used. In the SSO I did not limit any field as I didn't want to place any restrictions on the Frame COs.
3.We cannot control when problems occur in the SEA, this is the first time I have seen this issue. I have examined the logs and your squad rolled 2 mins after everyone else. It was a futher 6 mins before the first pilot in your squad died, and I think that was a proximity kill. A further 6 minutes until the majority of your squad dies. Your kill to death was 6:9 not bad for a vulched squad. Had your squad grabbed in a different direction you may have lasted a lot longer, all of this is however beyond the control of the admin or setup CM.

I am sorry to hear that you got vulched, but it will happen now and then and every ones turn comes around.

[Squire]

Let me be the second one in here to reply, ok, im still calm...good

Selector I think you will get more mileage from your post if you dont qualify it by saying that the "axis" or "allies" benefited more, or less, thats a side issue, and it really doesnt matter now. Its interesting that both sides swore the other had the advantage because of plane X or plane Y.

Late start. I for one have to say that if anybody logged to the MA, without knowing how many minutes untill roll was?, is asking for big trouble. I would not advise it.

Arena problems. Ok fair enough, but the CM tried to fix it asap, I see no reason for the players not to be understanding about it? We cant wave a wand, nobody deliberately starts events late to be mean.

...So as to the rest of it, if you have a comment, fire away, but please lets not re-hash perceived (or real) injustices or insults, otherwise this is pointless. Stick to design criteria that the CMs can use to *improve* things.

[Flossy]

Not sure I follow what you mean, Selector, about my comment in response to your original statement that there was nobody in the arena 25 minutes before the start?  Skyman had already been in the arena and set it all up - then had his computer crash before he could finish.  Even if he hadn't had a computer crash - which, of course, prevented him from being online at all - there was no obligation for him to be in the arena at that time.  

I understand there was nobody in the arena before the CAP started either - but I'm sure the arena was all set up ready, wasn't it?  As long as the hosting CM (or an alternative if there is a problem) turns up on time - or ideally 5-10 minutes early - and the arena is set up, there's no reason for him to be there.  Besides, there could have been 101 reasons why the CM is not present at any time before their event.... disco'd, computer crashed, exited to check forums, to name a few.

I'm really trying to understand your point, Selector....  

[Gremlin]

I think to be fair to you Selector, late starts is one of the things about special events that really bugs you and thats fair enough. I've seen you comment on late starts on a number of occassions.   When I get the odd chance to run as a hosting CM, I find that often late starts are caused because players tend to mass in five minutes before the hour and look for assignment and then the side CO has the headache of finding them somewhere to go.  I know that wasnt the case on this occassion.

One thing I need to know Selector, the logs disagree with your assertion that you were vulched on the runway.  Can you elaborate on exactly what happened there.
Looking through the log of the event shows the following flight durations for your squad members

Easykill - 11mins
Forsy - 19mins
hyena425 - 14mins
jakedon - 11mins
Javis7 - 5mins
Jensk - 6mins
Linz - 9mins
Rompa -13mins
Selector - 8 mins
Squadvid - 13mins

I did a little experiment offline.  I loaded the france terrain loaded up a P47-D25 with 100% gas, full eggs and rockets and put a stopwatch on it.  From the moment I spawned (from a sea level base) until I had reached 12k was 7mins 30secs.  Admittedly the P47-D25 climbs like a brick (1550 - 1600fpm with that loadout).  What I am saying here is the figures really dont tie in with your assertion that you were vulched 'on the runway'.

Look I'm not trying to 'catch you out' in anyway, just trying to understand what went on.

I do understand you concerns about late starts.  If one thing good has come out of all of this it shows that we all cms and players care deeply for special events.  Wouldn't you agree that what we need to do is channel that energy into making even cooler events?

[ViFF]

I think I should add my input as the Axis CO as well:

My plan for the axis was to get to the assigned target of A57 as quickly as possible, enmass, and completely overwhelm any defenders there. I even went as far as instructing 101 sqn and 308 sqn to sweep ahead of the main attack force already aproaching (Lv32, Lv34, and another two squads) with doras, 262s and 190a5s in a high speed low climb profile even further downrange to quickly engage any enemy aircraft inbound to the A57/A53 area.

What happened was that all hell broke loose, because I think thats exactly what Dantoo planned for the allied side. Both of our forces met head on within the first 5 minutes of the frame from start. From my piont of view, I was in a 262 and the sky exploded for me with jugs and spits all over the A53 and A57 area as soon as I got there. The bulk of our forces converged and clashed in a brutal conflageration. I have never seen anything like this in the SSO, sure it reminded me of main arena or KOTH gameplay style, but I can't criticise this as something we could have avoided, even if the CM would have placed the launching fields further away from each other. I believe both Dantoo and myself commited a very large force of fighters to attack/defend a single target and there was no way to avoid such a clash.

There have been historical situations like this in ww2 where opposing forces simply unknowingly "fall" on top of each other without previous knowledge that each side has committed large amounts of their air assets in an effort to overwhelm the enemy.

[Gremlin]

Actually Vladd was allied CO for frame 3:)

[jordi]

Nice over view Viff from your perspective - THANKS !

[BlauK]

If you see the alt limit necessary, howabout taking it to double the eralier limit? Make it 20k. That would cut the 30k climbing contests but would still allow more room for vertical maneuvering.

[Kisters]

Originally posted by SELECTOR

i was told by a squadmate that the same problems were to be had in CAP the night before..

That was my fault, had fleets locs all wrong.

[daddog]

Kisters, CM’s should never publicly admit they made a mistake. It will always be preferable to blame someone or something else. Lack of CM tools, problems with the logs, bugs, etc. If those are not an option then blame Ramzey, lucull, lazs, or creamo. It is vital that the CM’s remain a cut above the common player and continuously paint a veneer of importance and heavy burden while serving the community.

[ramzey]

Originally posted by daddog
Kisters, CM’s should never publicly admit they made a mistake. It will always be preferable to blame someone or something else. Lack of CM tools, problems with the logs, bugs, etc. If those are not an option then blame Ramzey, lucull, lazs, or creamo. It is vital that the CM’s remain a cut above the common player and continuously paint a veneer of importance and heavy burden while serving the community.

S! Kisters

Daddog , can i quote you in my sig? ;-)

[Flossy]

Originally posted by daddog
If those are not an option then blame Ramzey, lucull, lazs, or creamo.

ROFL!  

[lucull]

I can't stop laughing

[Vladd]

Due to the transfer of MAG33, the Allies actually had more fighters with a defensive tasking than I had originally planned - this contibuted somewhat to the pigpile we saw. If the squad transfer hadn't happened  the Allied defenders would have been hugely outnumbered and could only have survived by running. Not too achievable with 262s in the area. Hence our P47 pilots would have had even less fun than they actually did on the day, if that's possible!

But these things will happen in squadops with the current format. With 4 objectives to fight over it will always be largely down to chance whether the fights are one-sided or balanced depending on the strategy each respective CO chooses to adopt. Is this a problem for the participants? Perhaps so. The only alternative I can see would be to remove most of the COs discretion and have the design CM allocate missions for both sides for each frame with the object of providing as good a fight as possible. Whether this would still be a 'Squadop' would be another question - there are advantages to this approach but I'd imagime the whine quotient the designer would have to put up with would be even worse than it is at present!


Vladd