Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: molybdenum on November 15, 2017, 10:19:18 PM
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Bustr has succeeded in making a map that makes me not want to play while it is on. Even Bowl did not do that!
His purpose is to channel activity into localized areas, creating a melee, and in that he has succeeded, and good for him. I'll be interested to see how many players prefer that (though the people on this message board are not representative of the AH community as a whole, but no other sample available).
My problem is that everything is extremely predictable. Creativity is stifled. People of mediocre ability but a desire to help, like me, find little useful to do and get shot down or bomb****ed. while trying. Because what the enemy is doing is predictable as well I can always resup something, but that gets old fairly quickly. So why bother logging on?
This map might well appeal to the guys who have playing the game for a decade. But, given the steep learning curve of AH3, new guys, unless all they want to do is shoot stuff down and then die in a blaze of glory, might be quickly discouraged.
Just my opinion. Would be interested in hearing others'.
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Game play is pretty much predictable on all maps,IMO. I really like this new map. 1. Its well thought out--quick action, whether GV or fighter. I my self, not much of a climb out hit a target bomber type. 2. It has some new wrinkles...the bases with Map Room on field with no town. I have yet, to log on and not find fast and furious action, when those base takes are on. I am not a Tanker either. WIRB, now your talking my language! Guess thats why I like those bases? Lots of DE-acking...AKA WIRB FODDER. Only thing I have come across on this new map, I dont care for, is nothing to do with the map. The new QUADRANT gv thing, well jury is still deliberating. Just dont know about that,yet. Seems there are more fighters up all over the map as well! If that was your thing about other terrains, this works great. BUT, if you are a Bomber type, I guess it could be problematic? Strats are pretty well protected here of late. Or at least it looks like it is,could be furballers. I like it! :aok Oh, and thats why I Bombt**D, I got that alot...so I learned how to RETURN the love! :devil I do see your point though. Not every one has the time to play as much. I still practice about an hour off line per day,give or take. Was best way really, lots of aids to work with. I got descent at it and now its my favorite activity. Sorry, if I am the cause of any woes you have about getting bombed, its not personal :rock
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Give it some time. New and different maps are in the pipeline.
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I've been having a pretty good time on it. I haven't played during direct prime time, but a couple hours after... been pretty solid fights. I think the shorter bases really help. Not sure about quadrant dar yet. Some tankers tonight did not like it haha. But, IMO, I do think there should be a dar so players can find action rather than make the map look dead while everyone is in tanks. Overall I think its a success and I've seen better fights later at night on the west coast!
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What cant you do on this map that you could on others....creatively speaking....actually matter of fact put examples of things you can't do on this map that you can on others....to get past me being redundant, there will be virtually nothing except the back strats...which many agreed shouldn't have 163s enabled.
All maps do offer the same things, some just offer more of certain things then others....like you and many others have said to me about M3s resupplying towns....adapt. :ahand
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I haven't been pulled into the quicksand that is terrain creation... So I won't presume to know how the ratz will receive their maze.
We've all had a "this map sucks" moment, but it's rarely about the map design, and much more about what people are doing at the moment ON that map that sours us.
As posted above, very specific examples would go a long way to assist in a solution, rather than poo on some community members putting their time in for YOUR entertainment...
Let's see your map... :devil
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Seems like a pretty cool map to me. :headscratch:
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Bustr has succeeded in making a map that makes me not want to play while it is on. Even Bowl did not do that!
His purpose is to channel activity into localized areas, creating a melee, and in that he has succeeded, and good for him. I'll be interested to see how many players prefer that (though the people on this message board are not representative of the AH community as a whole, but no other sample available).
My problem is that everything is extremely predictable. Creativity is stifled. People of mediocre ability but a desire to help, like me, find little useful to do and get shot down or bomb****ed. while trying. Because what the enemy is doing is predictable as well I can always resup something, but that gets old fairly quickly. So why bother logging on?
This map might well appeal to the guys who have playing the game for a decade. But, given the steep learning curve of AH3, new guys, unless all they want to do is shoot stuff down and then die in a blaze of glory, might be quickly discouraged.
Just my opinion. Would be interested in hearing others'.
WOW I thought Buzzsaw would be the only map someone would complain about-I WAS WRONG
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I like.
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My problem is that everything is extremely predictable. Creativity is stifled.
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so how does a game supposed to sneak up on you, that's what it sounds like you want? how is that supposed to work. oceania map is ok.
tell us what you want in a map that is wrong with this map--because this has gv fights- air to air fights bombers dropping bombs and cv groups with Battleships and sheep oh my--wait dang it bish stole all the sheep.
this was only the 2nd time oceania map has been up. but really aren't the battles on all the maps really the same all the time.
now be prepared because bustr will suggest to you as he has me on several occasions to design and built your on map.
Hint--we haven't had a map that looks like a target yet.
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There are things about every map I don't like... but there are things about every map I very much like. I appreciate the creativity and efforts of the map makers to give us all some variety here. Part of playing this game (and enjoying it, IMHO) is being able to figure out a way around the obstacles, so to speak. There are no guarantees anything will work, but when it does it's a sweet kind of success. When it fails, live and learn, then try another tactic. I think that applies to maps as well as to every other aspect of the game.
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My problem is that everything is extremely predictable. Creativity is stifled.
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so how does a game supposed to sneak up on you, that's what it sounds like you want? how is that supposed to work. oceania map is ok.
tell us what you want in a map that is wrong with this map--because this has gv fights- air to air fights bombers dropping bombs and cv groups with Battleships and sheep oh my--wait dang it bish stole all the sheep.
this was only the 2nd time oceania map has been up. but really aren't the battles on all the maps really the same all the time.
now be prepared because bustr will suggest to you as he has me on several occasions to design and built your on map.
Hint--we haven't had a map that looks like a target yet.
:aok You forgot THE SQUIRRELS with cameras :rofl
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Part of playing this game (and enjoying it, IMHO) is being able to figure out a way around the obstacles, so to speak.
I think this illustrates the age-old divide in AW, AH and probably the other similar games. Do you figure out a way around the obstacle, or do you confront and try to overcome it? War-winners v. furballers, seems to me.
There is no final answer.
- oldman
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Right! At least HighTech puts in the effort to try and fix some game play dynamics that get a bad rap! This is just an experiment, in the vein of last tours M3 troop thing. More than likely? Lets ride this out a bit before judgement is passed! :rock
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Come up with something better. I'll wait....
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OP has no clue what he's talking about...just like he has no clue on strategy in game.
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OP whines about BowlMA that I killed the strat running(sneaking) game. Oceania this time I place all the strat in one area open to even passing squirrels whizzing on them. OP whines again with no specifics other than whining. I cannot help it if "Hitech" enabled 163 at all three un-capturable feilds for the defense of the strats. He communicated to me that my ride setups for each base were not in place after my last run of the terrain build. That happens some times with the terrain editor, I enabled the 163 at only a single field. He was kind enough to personally address the problem. On purpose I didn't place any Flak bases near the strats just for the "Whining OP". Hitech decided to enable the 163 at all three un-capturable feilds, so OP, whine at Hitech.
The OP got to whine his whine about BowlMA and his pat on the head from me, Hitech decided differently...... After this OP, build terrains if you want to keep attacking my work. Your whining has gotten lame.
I apologize to Hitech and Skuzzy if you gentlemen disagree with my tone here.
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Not playing all the time is s good thing and if you don’t like a map do your ironing or go for a windy walk with a friend in the forest
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Bustr has succeeded in making a map that makes me not want to play while it is on. Even Bowl did not do that!
His purpose is to channel activity into localized areas, creating a melee, and in that he has succeeded, and good for him. I'll be interested to see how many players prefer that (though the people on this message board are not representative of the AH community as a whole, but no other sample available).
My problem is that everything is extremely predictable. Creativity is stifled. People of mediocre ability but a desire to help, like me, find little useful to do and get shot down or bomb****ed. while trying. Because what the enemy is doing is predictable as well I can always resup something, but that gets old fairly quickly. So why bother logging on?
This map might well appeal to the guys who have playing the game for a decade. But, given the steep learning curve of AH3, new guys, unless all they want to do is shoot stuff down and then die in a blaze of glory, might be quickly discouraged.
Just my opinion. Would be interested in hearing others'.
My opinion......build your own map and submit it if you don't like whats in play and don't whine about the people who put in a lot of time and effort to try and produce some different map options for us in game...... :old:
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My problem is that everything is extremely predictable. Creativity is stifled.
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so how does a game supposed to sneak up on you, that's what it sounds like you want? how is that supposed to work. oceania map is ok.
tell us what you want in a map that is wrong with this map--because this has gv fights- air to air fights bombers dropping bombs and cv groups with Battleships and sheep oh my--wait dang it bish stole all the sheep.
this was only the 2nd time oceania map has been up. but really aren't the battles on all the maps really the same all the time.
Fair enough, though I think I explained it in my original post.
I want base take options. For such a large map, Oceania gives few such options, and anyone who can read a map can see a try coming pretty easily. In crafting this map, Bustr wished to concentrate activity and he has succeeded. I'm sure many people like that. But it makes what I do (usually bombing or whirbling something) far less effective, especially with the new GV dar thing in existence. When I play, I want whatever I up to achieve a larger purpose than to just shoot someone else down.
I'm not saying it's a bad map. I'm just saying that I hate it.
For context, I absolutely LOVE Buzzsaw. It has everything: quick action if you want that, a multitude of reachable targets in a reasonable amount of time, strats to attack or defend in planes or GVs, channeled CV battles (though I wish the channels were a little wider!)...you name it. I don't get it why it's unpopular with many. And maybe that means I'm out of step with a large part of the AH community. *shrug
But I hate Oceania, lol. Enough said.
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Then build a terrain and stop complaining in here.
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OP whines about BowlMA that I killed the strat running(sneaking) game. Oceania this time I place all the strat in one area open to even passing squirrels whizzing on them. OP whines again with no specifics other than whining. I cannot help it if "Hitech" enabled 163 at all three un-capturable feilds for the defense of the strats...
No...I whined that most of the strats on Bowl were a very long way from bases you could up to hit them from, and any strat could be resupped with 4 minute m3 rides. The 163 thing doesn't matter in the slightest since each of the bases you refer to is essentially equally able to defend its strat cluster. And I'm not against 163s being able to defend a strat. It was 163s +Flak bases + very long flights + 4 minute resups that I found displeasing.
As for Oceania, the AAA strat of a team can essentially only be hit by one of its two enemies--we're talking about a ten sector flight for the team that is placed furthest away. I dislike Oceania a lot, and that's an additional reason (see my previous post for others).
Please try not to take this personally, Bustr. I'm explaining, not attacking.
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You are whining.
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For context, I absolutely LOVE Buzzsaw. It has everything: quick action if you want that, a multitude of reachable targets in a reasonable amount of time, strats to attack or defend in planes or GVs, channeled CV battles (though I wish the channels were a little wider!)...you name it.
:O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O
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Then build a terrain and stop complaining in here.
You can be a tiny bit salamanderly at times, Bustr, but I don't see why people would complain over your terrains. They're well thought out and we were in desperate need of them. Kudos for the effort.
:salute
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You are whining.
Sounds like Constructive feedback to me.
It appears that molybdenum may have struck a nerve with you bustr. You're old enough I'm sure, put the big boy pants on.
You really need to take others opinions into consideration, before throwing your legos' at them and telling them to build their own map.
Coogan
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I don't need to be able to build a car to tell after driving it that I hate it. I don't have any problems with bustr's maps but telling anyone who does to make their own is pretty funny.
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He wants all of the strat stuffed in 3 sectors of the terrain center so he dosn't have to spend any time to visit them. Buzzsaw is a "chaos pot" that exposes the strat to easy attack almost like being in a boxed AI game. The game play has no flow other than exposing players to "isolated activity" and ease of access almost like someone was already thinking about what mattered to Steam customers and the next younger generation. It's disjointed, no real war or strategic flow, and caters in a hand and glove manner to "individuals" with bombers and GV's. It's fun about once in a while and then it's tedious unless you drive GV's, solo Bombers, or want to live in an IL2 or HurriD. It's safe for budding air combat players to not become all night perma-scalps.
I won't build terrains like this, so I want him to knock it off and build his own terrains if he wants that kind of easy mode strat runners paradise. And to you too Coogan, build a terrain if you have a better product to offer the community than your desire to get away with dinging people in public. I've used individual design elements from Buzzsaw because they "work across design rational" to enhance the experience. I spend time looking at design features of all the terrains. I refuse to create a "LazyBoy Player" bomber pilot and GV chaos pot. Might as well buy a boxed AI game at that point.
So once again, stop dinging me and build your own terrains, this is not constructive criticism, its picking a fight. Both of you, build a terrain, then we can talk about terrain design because right now you guys are getting lame.
horble, until you build one, you won't know. Ask 8thjinx about it, he went through that epiphany about 2 weeks into his first terrain that is currently under construction. I don't get one dime from HTC for what I create.
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He wants all of the strat stuffed in 3 sectors of the terrain center so he dosn't have to spend any time to visit them. Buzzsaw is a "chaos pot" that exposes the strat to easy attack almost like being in a boxed AI game. The game play has no flow other than exposing players to "isolated activity" and ease of access almost like someone was already thinking about what mattered to Steam customers and the next younger generation. It's disjointed, no real war or strategic flow, and caters in a hand and glove manner to "individuals" with bombers and GV's. It's fun about once in a while and then it's tedious unless you drive GV's, solo Bombers, or want to live in an IL2 or HurriD. It's safe for budding air combat players to not become all night perma-scalps.
I won't build terrains like this, so I want him to knock it off and build his own terrains if he wants that kind of easy mode strat runners paradise. And to you too Coogan, build a terrain if you have a better product to offer the community than your desire to get away with dinging people in public. I've used individual design elements from Buzzsaw because they "work across design rational" to enhance the experience. I spend time looking at design features of all the terrains. I refuse to create a "LazyBoy Player" bomber pilot and GV chaos pot. Might as well buy a boxed AI game at that point.
So once again, stop dinging me and build your own terrains, this is not constructive criticism, its picking a fight. Both of you, build a terrain, then we can talk about terrain design because right now you guys are getting lame.
horble, until you build one, you won't know. Ask 8thjinx about it, he went through that epiphany about 2 weeks into his first terrain that is currently under construction. I don't get one dime from HTC for what I create.
I didn't knock your map, just your attitude.
Coogan
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Don't hate the maps........hate the playa who's gameplay has gone stale.
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I don't need to be able to build a car to tell after driving it that I hate it. I don't have any problems with bustr's maps but telling anyone who does to make their own is pretty funny.
Of course this is true (the car part, I mean), but to what end is the complaining? OK, we know someone doesn't like a map, and why he/she doesn't like it. Fine, you got that off your chest. But so what? The map is what the map is. You'll be happier when a different map comes up. Meanwhile you've needlessly offended someone who spent lot of time and effort making that map. I continually feel bad for the poor soul who made Buzzsaw, and - yes, I'm saying it - I feel bad for Bustr when people complain about one of his maps.
- oldman
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OK, we know someone doesn't like a map, and why he/she doesn't like it. Fine, you got that off your chest. But so what? The map is what the map is. You'll be happier when a different map comes up. Meanwhile you've needlessly offended someone who spent lot of time and effort making that map.
- oldman
The reason I opened this topic was to ask for opinions on Oceania. If you'll read my first and and my subsequent posts you'll see I wasn't trashing anyone but truly was seeking input. I wondered what others felt for two reasons: 1) am I in the minority in this, and if so, to what extent? and 2) Is this the direction AH3 is going?
8thJinx has made veiled references to other maps in the works but right now the only person putting out new maps is Bustr. His vision for how AH3 ought to be played will be reflected in the creation of these maps, and rightfully so. But if they're (to use a Bustr term lol) a "single finger salute" to my style of game play, then why play? And why single finger salute paying customers anyway, when AH3 needs a critical mass of players to continue and prosper?
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You are hiding behind garnering opinions and constructive criticism to attack me, then hoping your post will open a floodgate and a mob to support your opinions to hide further that you are attacking me. Coogan joined in and hid behind accusing me of taking offense at "constructive criticism" and imagining an attack by yourself. Coogan also has issues with me from other conversations.
All players are Napoleons when it comes to opinions about this game. Each is his own tiny expert on what will make this game a utopia for only himself. This is why player opinions and constructive criticism are meaningless because their tiny internal Napoleon will be doing the talking. And it's always, this is how you should create my terrain to make only me happy. Hence the canard of "constructive criticism" is a lame way to take a drive by revenge shot and fly under the Skuzzy radar. Then if you get push back from your target, you claim your are a victim and try to get a mob to come to your rescue and attack me for being mean to you.
It's because of the tiny internal Napoleon I tell all of you to build your own terrain and then we can talk. Otherwise posts like this one from upset Napoleons happen. There also is no stated outcome you want from attacking me this way either. What do you think you will accomplish if either a MOB rescues you and dumps on me or, Hitech suddenly gets the light that your way of building terrains is the one true and only way to an AH utopia?
1. - Are you trying to use a MOB to shame me into building terrains your way or to never build terrains again?
2. - Are you hoping Hitech will do either to me with the same end results? And force everyone to build terrains to make you happy.
The single major difference between Buzzsaw and other terrains is all the strats, city and HQ are in the center of the terrain so any passing squirrel can drop acorns on them by just sneezing while laying in their tree nest. So Moly, build your own terrains with that configuration and submit them to Hitech.
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You are hiding behind garnering opinions and constructive criticism to attack me, then hoping your post will open a floodgate and a mob to support your opinions to hide further that you are attacking me. Coogan joined in and hid behind accusing me of taking offense at "constructive criticism" and imagining an attack by yourself. Coogan also has issues with me from other conversations.
All players are Napoleons when it comes to opinions about this game. Each is his own tiny expert on what will make this game a utopia for only himself. This is why player opinions and constructive criticism are meaningless because their tiny internal Napoleon will be doing the talking. And it's always, this is how you should create my terrain to make only me happy. Hence the canard of "constructive criticism" is a lame way to take a drive by revenge shot and fly under the Skuzzy radar. Then if you get push back from your target, you claim your are a victim and try to get a mob to come to your rescue and attack me for being mean to you.
It's because of the tiny internal Napoleon I tell all of you to build your own terrain and then we can talk. Otherwise posts like this one from upset Napoleons happen. There also is no stated outcome you want from attacking me this way either. What do you think you will accomplish if either a MOB rescues you and dumps on me or, Hitech suddenly gets the light that your way of building terrains is the one true and only way to an AH utopia?
1. - Are you trying to use a MOB to shame me into building terrains your way or to never build terrains again?
2. - Are you hoping Hitech will do either to me with the same end results? And force everyone to build terrains to make you happy.
The single major difference between Buzzsaw and other terrains is all the strats, city and HQ are in the center of the terrain so any passing squirrel can drop acorns on them by just sneezing while laying in their tree nest. So Moly, build your own terrains with that configuration and submit them to Hitech.
Past has nothing to do with this thread. Get over yourself dude.
Coogan
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It's because of the tiny internal Napoleon I tell all of you to build your own terrain and then we can talk. Otherwise posts like this one from upset Napoleons happen. There also is no stated outcome you want from attacking me this way either. What do you think you will accomplish if either a MOB rescues you and dumps on me or, Hitech suddenly gets the light that your way of building terrains is the one true and only way to an AH utopia?
1. - Are you trying to use a MOB to shame me into building terrains your way or to never build terrains again?
2. - Are you hoping Hitech will do either to me with the same end results? And force everyone to build terrains to make you happy.
The single major difference between Buzzsaw and other terrains is all the strats, city and HQ are in the center of the terrain so any passing squirrel can drop acorns on them by just sneezing while laying in their tree nest. So Moly, build your own terrains with that configuration and submit them to Hitech.
1) I am incapable of building my own terrain, as are most players, so that standard answer from you just blows off legitimate points people make instead of addressing them.
2) I am indeed posting my displeasure of your creative vision (NOT ability) because it directly counters what I enjoy doing in game. I'm sure I am in a minority, but probably a decent-sized minority who share this opinion, hence my opening this topic--I'd like a sense of how many players out there also do not like it. And yes, I'm hoping HT uses input from me and others to tweak future maps to appeal to nearly every player, not a specific segment of the population. Crater is probably the very best in that regard: I cannot remember anyone ever criticizing it, and whatever you like to do in AH, there's a place and way to do it there successfully.
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Which brings up a major issue, namely the difficulty in map-making. Even with Bustr's help I still can't even get mine to load.
Other games that have map-making capabilities are far more intuitive than the current AH3 system. If it could be streamlined (automated?) to be more like a point, click, drag, drop interface we would see an explosion of terrains. Think SIM CITY, MINECRAFT, STARCRAFT, etc.
As it is I've thrown my hands up trying to figure it out for now. I will give it a crack again one of these days perhaps, but color me frustrated.
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I actually found terrain making to be easy, once I let go of my preconceptions about the TE interface.
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I actually found terrain making to be easy, once I let go of my preconceptions about the TE interface.
What were the preconceptions?
HiTech
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Honestly Hitech, it was me, not the software. I'm an engineer used to dealing with CAD, PV Elite, structural design software, and MatLab. The very first time I looked at the TE interface, my first reaction was "how could this interface possibly construct a gaming terrain." I'm used to dealing with dozens of tools in floating lists or along the margin of the design window, with multiple spaces you can jump to and from. The TE is very streamlined, clean, without much to see, really. I actually thought I was missing part of the download, like what I was seeing was a partial package. I didn't think it was going to work. But then again, I had zero experience with any terrain builder, period.
So I dove in to see what I could get accomplished. Once I figured out how to start a terrain and play around with it, though, it was really very easy. Way easier than AutoCad. It's to the point now that if I want to test a design idea like a valley or an approach to a town, or nail down a process to build repeatable features using L3DT Pro to jazz something up, I'll start a whole new terrain.
I now have so much I want to accomplish with the TE and Object Editor, that I have to actually block out time in my calendar for it. I'm hooked.
Edit: The two things that helped me the most in getting me off my butt from "this will never work" stage to "hey this actually works" stage were Kanth's videos on YouTube, and the info Waffle gave me on scaling the terrain during the initial set up.
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The community strikes again... I always rely on the kindness of terrain builders.. :devil Keep at Jinx!