Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on April 16, 2011, 11:15:31 AM
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I logged on last night and the biggest population was in the Blue arena. Both arenas were open so I went there. There were a few Nits attacking some Bish at two airfields and some Bish pushing into Rook territory on the other side of the map. Basically there were 3-4 fights going on and that was it.
Some Nits attacked a Bish VB, were repelled then gave up. Bish took a Nit port, were repelled and gave it back. The arena as a whole pretty much gave me the choice of being part of a horde or playing where there weren't any other players (or at least fighting was sparse so I'd be taking my chances whether I got to fight someone or not).
After a couple of sorties killing GV's in an IL2 (who eventually gave up) I logged into Orange. The situation there was the same except Bish were outnumbered instead of sides being equal. Even at that the fighting was so sparse as to not making it worthwhile to up.
By this time it was getting close to the MA/off hours switch so I decided to go get in a quick fight in WWI. Woohoo... there was one player in the arena. Bummer... he was Bish. For some reason at this point I didn't feel it worthwhile to switch sides and just logged off.
I long for the days when we had 700 people on a map and there were fights everywhere. Sigh.
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Maybe everyone was flying FSO?
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"I long for the days when we had 700 people on a map and there were fights everywhere. Sigh."
That was the best days in AH. I'm just glad I was Thar to fight with yall at that time.
<S> to all the vets of AH
:salute MAX1007
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"I long for the days when we had 700 people on a map and there were fights everywhere. Sigh."
That was the best days in AH. I'm just glad I was Thar to fight with yall at that time.
<S> to all the vets of AH
:salute MAX1007
:salute
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I logged in after the arena reset, we had some pretty good fights with the rooks at 62. they tried to take the base a few of us defended, was fun for a couple of hours.
semp
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Normally I see Trinity and go do something else for the night (as fate has it, it's up in both LW arenas) Actually found some fun in Blue--a whorde Nits rolled a few bases in NW corner, a few of us fought what could best be described as a delaying tactic....had fun for some hours at any rate, really didn't expect that. That being said, I don't think maps with 400 sectors are a good fit with a 200 player roster....all ya see are roving, base-taking whordes, which rarely come across each other....if they do, it's some sort of accident
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We had a full FSO last nite with the big B-29 raid on Tokyo. It also lasted the full 2 hours since we had to fly the B-29s a long way home.
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I long for the days when we had 700 people on a map and there were fights everywhere. Sigh.
oh how i miss those days
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I long for the days when we had 700 people on a map and there were fights everywhere. Sigh.
Including 30% of them slugging it out in Tank Town on Trinity... a Ghost Town today
My own personal Golden Age of AH :cry
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More AH ads!
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More AH ads!
that's exactly how i discovered this game. TV add on the Military Channel
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That was the best days in AH. I'm just glad I was Thar to fight with yall at that time.
Amen brutha. :salute
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that's exactly how i discovered this game. TV add on the Military Channel
me too and i havent seen one in forever
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You will never see 700 people except on tuesday because, despite everyone in this thread longing for more players on the map, the developers think it's best to split the population in half to have 300 on one map and 300 on the other. In reality it tends to be 100 in one map and 200 in the other. I'd much rather see a 300 population than a 200 and 100. The 200 is ok, but the 100 player server is abysmal.
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There needs to be a custom cap system put into place for each map.
Its just silly that if a huge map is in rotation a cap of 200 is in place. Regardless of how unpopulated the other arena is. 200 may be a bit overcrowding on some maps, but on a map like Trinity, the #s balancing themselves on each country would put them at average 65 per side. Pretty silly IMO. It just ends up being a haven of hide and seek for players now a days that want to play uncontested
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I don't mean to sound like a salamander but it seems that you might have more fun in the dueling arena.
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DA, though sometimes fun, is very one dimensional, whether it be the lake, crammed full of picking/HOing Tempest tards who think they've done something after vulching you on takeoff, or mere dueling, which doesn't have the variety that one finds hunting down people in the MA
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The only reasons I would EVER, EVERRRRRR go into the "DA" would be to
1) drag fighters into my laser beam guns in some buffs.
2) Learn defensive maneuvers
I wish HT would take up donations to get some ads running - I would record it and watch it over and over :lol
:banana:
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The only reasons I would EVER, EVERRRRRR go into the "DA" would be to
1) drag fighters into my laser beam guns in some buffs.
2) Learn defensive maneuvers
I wish HT would take up donations to get some ads running - I would record it and watch it over and over :lol
:banana:
+1 if they added a donate option I'd def send some extra cash in. Especially if it was going towards commercials or other advertisement in an attempt to lure some more helpless addicts.
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The big fans of flight sims are already playing this game or know about it at the very least. Before they advertise they need to change the game so that the people that see the advertisements will actually stay. I can tell you right now that non flight sim people that want to play mmos won't put up with arena caps. So their choice is remove arena caps to get new players and piss off old players or keep arena caps to keep the old players happy but shut out new players. A younger gamer isn't going to sacrifice excellent graphics and not having a monthly fee (IL2 for example) for a game with worse graphics and the same amount of players. They're going to want to play a game that has a TON of players in a PERSISTENT world, they won't want to be forced to join a different "persistent" map every time they log back in.
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LOL you've been here a month and you've got it figured out better then the designers.
For all those missing that 'golden age' you mention with 700 in an arena, please go back and think about what it was like then without the rose colored glasses please :)
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Just because you don't agree doesn't mean our opinions are wrong. Some of us preferred the old single MA. End of story.
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The big fans of flight sims are already playing this game or know about it at the very least. Before they advertise they need to change the game so that the people that see the advertisements will actually stay. I can tell you right now that non flight sim people that want to play mmos won't put up with arena caps. So their choice is remove arena caps to get new players and piss off old players or keep arena caps to keep the old players happy but shut out new players. A younger gamer isn't going to sacrifice excellent graphics and not having a monthly fee (IL2 for example) for a game with worse graphics and the same amount of players. They're going to want to play a game that has a TON of players in a PERSISTENT world, they won't want to be forced to join a different "persistent" map every time they log back in.
:aok
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This argument is going nowhere if statements are made purely on authority.... Regardless which side, if any, you're on, the fact is that AH player growth had stopped when the arenas got to a certain uncapped size. Once they were capped subscriptions resumed increasing. It's from this and other facts, and from working to establish other facts rather than unsubstantiated assertions, that this arguments must work from if it's to not turn into another food fight.
E.G. that the game must be persistent, and that this isn't how things are now.
What is supposed to happen once a map is won, that would not "break" persistence?
What are the facts of gameplay quality when AH was at its peak in single arena population?
etc
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This argument is going nowhere if statements are made purely on authority.... Regardless which side, if any, you're on, the fact is that AH player growth had stopped when the arenas got to a certain uncapped size. Once they were capped subscriptions resumed increasing.
I'd argue that the populaton of AH overall has declined from that "golden age". Just go into the arena, pop open the clipboard and sort by rank. The lowest ranked players today are much higher ranked than before so that indicates that there are fewer players playing the game. I know that Lusche posted one of his wonderful charts on this. I'm sure the economy, job market and other factors have contributed to this but from my memory the clipboard numbers nearly halved. That accounts for a lot more than the rise in unemployment and even underemployment over that time frame and indicates that players are bailing (no pun intended).
Maybe numbers did increase after the arena split but was it due to the arena split or was HT running ads at that time? It seems to me he was.
I'm not saying the arena split is nessesarily bad, but with numbers what they are today vs where they were some type of accomodation needs to be made to make sure that when subscribers log on there's something for them to do, otherwise they'll leave and getting them back costs far more than keeping them in the first place.
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Once they were capped subscriptions resumed increasing.
etc
True, but if subscriptions happen to be on the decline past a certain point, won't reverting back to one arena also cause subscriptions to increase? Not saying it's there yet but there certainly is a point the other way too.
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BE do you mean Lusche's off-hours numbers, or did I miss his numbers for prime time that show this?
I'm on the fence for capped/single arenas. We need to find definite evidence that player growth resuming and arena caps were only coincidence. Just telling HT that there's no way to tell either way for sure, and using that as argument for trying uncapped arenas again, probably won't fly. Because IMO you can't just keep changing things without paying for it with at least a few subs, and because it takes a while for this sort of thing to settle down again for you to see whether it works or not.
I agree that if numbers keep falling, then eventually it'd be better ... that we "might as well" go back to single arena, but frankly I don't know if that's feasible. It seems right on the face of it, but then I don't know anything about the underlying factors like HT & co do.
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I'd argue that the populaton of AH overall has declined from that "golden age". Just go into the arena, pop open the clipboard and sort by rank. <snip> I know that Lusche posted one of his wonderful charts on this. I'm sure the economy, job market and other factors have contributed to this but from my memory the clipboard numbers nearly halved. <snip>
Well, yeah.. There are half as many players in each arena are there not?
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You'd still have the same span of rank, unless there was some artificial sorting going on, so that one arena had higher half of ranked player and the other arena the lower half.
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The big fans of flight sims are already playing this game or know about it at the very least.
Outstanding blanket statement.
Before they advertise they need to change the game so that the people that see the advertisements will actually stay. I can tell you right now that non flight sim people that want to play mmos won't put up with arena caps. So their choice is remove arena caps to get new players and piss off old players or keep arena caps to keep the old players happy but shut out new players.
HTC does this for a reason. I'm glad we finally have someone here to tell them what their options are.
younger gamer isn't going to sacrifice excellent graphics and not having a monthly fee (IL2 for example) for a game with worse graphics and the same amount of players. They're going to want to play a game that has a TON of players in a PERSISTENT world, they won't want to be forced to join a different "persistent" map every time they log back in.
IL2 has a horrible flight model. If you love IL2's graphics and arenas so much, great. Go play there. There's a reason that AH has outlasted most other MMO flight sims and has such a dedicated player base. You have no clue.
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^ Bam :aok
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The big fans of flight sims are already playing this game or know about it at the very least. Before they advertise they need to change the game so that the people that see the advertisements will actually stay. I can tell you right now that non flight sim people that want to play mmos won't put up with arena caps. So their choice is remove arena caps to get new players and piss off old players or keep arena caps to keep the old players happy but shut out new players. A younger gamer isn't going to sacrifice excellent graphics and not having a monthly fee (IL2 for example) for a game with worse graphics and the same amount of players. They're going to want to play a game that has a TON of players in a PERSISTENT world, they won't want to be forced to join a different "persistent" map every time they log back in.
:aok
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Only HTC has the numbers for the decision, and personally I hate the single arena WHEN THE NUMBERS WERE OVER 500. If the numbers support it, I'd like to see it go back to a single arena. HTC still has the split arena scenario in hand and I'm sure they could slip it back in without much trouble. Should HTC see the same "unhealthy arena" and subscription issue they could switch back no problem.
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oh how i miss those days
Same here. I lost interest quickly after the arenas split
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I'd argue that the populaton of AH overall has declined from that "golden age". Just go into the arena, pop open the clipboard and sort by rank. The lowest ranked players today are much higher ranked than before so that indicates that there are fewer players playing the game.
Absolutley. When we had one uncapped arena, I was rank 6000 (ish), now with the arena split I'm still last, but theres only about 3000 active players so I'm ranked 2999. :frown:
Also, I know about 5 people who Only play on Tuesday, I bet a lot of you can say the same.
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Absolutley. When we had one uncapped arena, I was rank 6000 (ish), now with the arena split I'm still last, but theres only about 3000 active players so I'm ranked 2999.
It's not that bad. ;) We had more than 4400 players with at least one kill or death in the LW arena last tour
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It's not that bad. ;) We had more than 4400 players with at least one kill or death in the LW arena last tour
Yea but at least 10 of those were sunbat shades. :D
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It's not that bad. ;) We had more than 4400 players with at least one kill or death in the LW arena last tour
And that excludes all those folks who maintained a subscription, but did not have a sortie
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And that excludes all those folks who maintained a subscription, but did not have a sortie
But also includes 2-weekers that did not have a subscription as well ;)
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But also includes 2-weekers that did not have a subscription as well ;)
Good point! I wonder how many people do the two weekk trial but never subscribe. Only HTC knows that though.
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What if there was only one arena that split 60 minutes after the population reaches that point where the play experience begins to deteriorate? Once the sum of the population in both arenas falls to 70 or 80 percent (throw-away numbers) of that "that point" for an hour the arenas can merge back together. Similar set up to what we have now except the population is the factor that decides whether the arena will split, not the time of day.
I'm sure HTC carefully considered what time of day to split the LWMA and what time to merge it again, but I'm interested in what sort of discussion this idea would spark (if it had never been discussed previously, which would surprise me).
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Only HTC has the numbers for the decision, and personally I hate the single arena WHEN THE NUMBERS WERE OVER 500. If the numbers support it, I'd like to see it go back to a single arena. HTC still has the split arena scenario in hand and I'm sure they could slip it back in without much trouble. Should HTC see the same "unhealthy arena" and subscription issue they could switch back no problem.
What's perplexing is that the huge maps (400 sectors) which HAD the 500-600 guys on them (which HT deemed 'bad', from a numbers vs gameplay perspective) are STILL the maps in play, even when there is only 1 guy for every 2 sectors on the map...a poor fit, IMO (from a 'gameplay' perspective)
Does HTC have a desired ratio in mind, of players to sectors?
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I just wish they postponed the switch to 2 arenas ONE HOUR , now it pretty much it for the day for many Europeans , because new arenas do not fill up to a critical number fast enough, because for that #Q¤%¤%%& 100-arena cap.
I do not have a sollution for the problem, maybe someone else have , HTC have a reason for splitting it up.
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Tonight I logged on at around 11:00 PM Central to get a couple of sorties in. Orange was locked at 100/100 and I was forced to go into Blue with a total of 45 players. It happened to be the map I most detest (NDIsles) and the only fighting was on the center island. Needless to day I logged out. No one in WWI. Went to the DA and got a couple quick sorties in at furball lake in a Ki-61 and logged out for the night.
45 players isn't really "massive multi-player" IMO.
So for my weekend Friday was a strike-out, Saturday was OK and Sunday the game was evidently cancelled.
Maybe at one time having over 500 people on a map wasn't good for subscriptions but having less than 50 is even worse for gameplay.
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Playing Devil's advocate for a second:
What was one of the great things about the early days? Everyone knew each other, right? Despite the low numbers of the time.
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See Rule #6
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Tonight I logged on at around 11:00 PM Central to get a couple of sorties in. Orange was locked at 100/100 and I was forced to go into Blue with a total of 45 players. It happened to be the map I most detest (NDIsles) and the only fighting was on the center island. Needless to day I logged out. No one in WWI. Went to the DA and got a couple quick sorties in at furball lake in a Ki-61 and logged out for the night.
45 players isn't really "massive multi-player" IMO.
So for my weekend Friday was a strike-out, Saturday was OK and Sunday the game was evidently cancelled.
Maybe at one time having over 500 people on a map wasn't good for subscriptions but having less than 50 is even worse for gameplay.
around 7 PM,ET last evening the game was dead also, one of LW 100/100 caped ,got in 2nd arena few min with 127 players heavly unbalanced and i logged; was like trying to have fun in a club where the girls are locked in separate rooms from the boys, it's like playing...... offline.
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I was in Blue for awhile and had a great time. Some fairly good fights to be had.
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When the area splits happened is when I started to lose interest. Mainly because 9 times out of 10 I would log in, see that most of my squadies were in one of the LW arenas and it was always capped, and I wouldn't be able to fly with my squad. My only choice was to go to another arena and fly with people I didn't know, or sit there and wait, hoping the cap would change and let me log in to fly with my friends. It was frustrating and it sucked.
Back before the caps when I logged in I KNEW I was going to get to fly and fight with my squad. Didn't matter if our "country" was outnumbered or not, we would either deffend our fields, or we would go on the attack. Point was we were flying together and having fun. All that went by the wayside in order to make things more "fair" in the arenas with population caps and side balancing.
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TankTown in trinity is a waste right now but i am sure if we where in one arena one map we would see a ton of action there.
No. Tank town on Trinity is as empty on Titanic Tuesdays as on any other day, caps or not. It's not split arena or player numbers by themselves that killed off the concept of Tank Town.
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No. Tank town on Trinity is as empty on Titanic Tuesdays as on any other day, caps or not. It's not split arena or player numbers by themselves that killed off the concept of Tank Town.
The people that played in this Tank Town probably left the game when the caps were put in, so just because Tuesday doesn't have a cap doesn't mean the players are the same as before. I know I wouldn't be paying 15 bucks to play 4 days a month.
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The arena split had nothing to do with "fair", or "balancing" the teams. It had everything to do with the subscription growth rate. Before the split, no growth, after the split, growth.
Whether the split helped the growth or not is not for anyof us to decide. HTC believes it and so they will stick to it. Hitech has posted about how a smaller group can "govern" themselves, and in large groups the "individual" gets lost and becomes part of a group that can no longer be "governed" by the rest of the group. To me this sounds like a mindless horde runs the arena when it gets to big. While a smaller group, through peer pressure can govern it's self better. Smaller caps = healthier arenas. Dynamic must be used to "herd" people into the 2 arenas because they are too stupid to regulate themselves.
If this game was more like the old says with combat and squad rivalries and such then some squads could make blue their home and others could make orange their own and there wouldn't be a as many complaints about caps. Everyone would have their "home" arena and would be able to fly with their squadmate , and/or the same "friends" all the time.
Much like AW' Euro arena and PAC arena. People would migrate back and forth, but for the most part stayed in their "home" arena. But, we are all too stupid for that and MUST always play in the "popular" arena with the cool kids. Untill we( the community) can take this into our own hands and make one arena or the other evenly balanced on our own, there will always be complaints about caps.
So basically what I'm saying is if your in here complaining about caps, it's your fault, not HTCs!
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The people that played in this Tank Town probably left the game when the caps were put in,
Incorrect.
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Incorrect.
Wrong.
See what I did there? At least provide some evidence to prove your point. Baseless claims are pointless.
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The arena split had nothing to do with "fair", or "balancing" the teams. It had everything to do with the subscription growth rate. Before the split, no growth, after the split, growth.
Whether the split helped the growth or not is not for anyof us to decide. HTC believes it and so they will stick to it. Hitech has posted about how a smaller group can "govern" themselves, and in large groups the "individual" gets lost and becomes part of a group that can no longer be "governed" by the rest of the group. To me this sounds like a mindless horde runs the arena when it gets to big. While a smaller group, through peer pressure can govern it's self better. Smaller caps = healthier arenas. Dynamic must be used to "herd" people into the 2 arenas because they are too stupid to regulate themselves.
If this game was more like the old says with combat and squad rivalries and such then some squads could make blue their home and others could make orange their own and there wouldn't be a as many complaints about caps. Everyone would have their "home" arena and would be able to fly with their squadmate , and/or the same "friends" all the time.
Much like AW' Euro arena and PAC arena. People would migrate back and forth, but for the most part stayed in their "home" arena. But, we are all too stupid for that and MUST always play in the "popular" arena with the cool kids. Untill we( the community) can take this into our own hands and make one arena or the other evenly balanced on our own, there will always be complaints about caps.
So basically what I'm saying is if your in here complaining about caps, it's your fault, not HTCs!
Your theory would work if there were just two arenas without caps. Because there are caps, squads can't make the orange or blue server their home because other players might cap their "home" arena. I'd be completely fine with there being two servers to choose from at all times, the caps are just kinda silly. If there were two servers at all times without caps it would be pretty easy to see if people prefer one large server or split servers. I'm putting my money on the former.
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LOL Hoff you are a piece of work. Old Lusche there has spent more time crunching numbers and producing data for the AH crowd then anyone else outside of HTC itself. Could be that in your month here you haven't figured that out and it explains away your cluelessness. What it doesn't explain away is your arrogance in being here for a month and trying to tell everyone what's wrong with the game etc.
Could be you might just want to take it back a notch, learn the game a bit more or find something else to do.
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What it doesn't explain away is your arrogance in being here for a month
I question whether he's only been here a month.
- oldman (hey, I'm the suspicious type!)
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Wrong.
See what I did there? At least provide some evidence to prove your point. Baseless claims are pointless.
I have done this many times, and the demise of Tank Town and the reasons had been a topic several times. Sorry that I'm not feeling like repeating that stuff everytime it comes up again, especially when a new player that's been here for just a month tells us what happened several years ago. Just as I nowayss do not chime in on every collision thread anymore.
And for comparison: Your claim is based on pure guessing, my claim is based on witnessing all that stuff. I saw what happened. So my claim can beat up your claim :P
But to clarify: There was absolutely no change in Tank Town combat environment, popularity, raw player numbers after the split or caused by it. TT went downhill about a year later for very different reasons.
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I have done this many times, and the demise of Tank Town and the reasons had been a topic several times. Sorry that I'm not feeling like repeating that stuff everytime it comes up again, especially when a new player that's been here for just a month tells us what happened several years ago. Just as I nowayss do not chime in on every collision thread anymore.
I believe I know exactly how you feel.
HiTech
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Wrong.
See what I did there? At least provide some evidence to prove your point. Baseless claims are pointless.
You absolutely do not want to mess with someone as good at hard statistical data as Lusche. Period.
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I have done this many times, and the demise of Tank Town and the reasons had been a topic several times. Sorry that I'm not feeling like repeating that stuff everytime it comes up again, especially when a new player that's been here for just a month tells us what happened several years ago. Just as I nowayss do not chime in on every collision thread anymore.
And for comparison: Your claim is based on pure guessing, my claim is based on witnessing all that stuff. I saw what happened. So my claim can beat up your claim :P
But to clarify: There was absolutely no change in Tank Town combat environment, popularity, raw player numbers after the split or caused by it. TT went downhill about a year later for very different reasons.
That's all you had to say, sorry if I was rude, I just thought you were just randomly being rude to me like some others have been. All I wanted was a justification for your claim. Thanks.
Since I'm new I may not know everything about the game, but since I'm new I know some things that older players don't. I have a fresh, untainted (although, obviously not unbiased), view of the game. I don't know what it was like to have Titanic Tuesday every day, but since Titanic Tuesday is my favorite thing, I can only imagine that it was awesome and want to see it happen. I'm from the younger generation that grew up with MMOs and FPS. I like things that stand out from the crowd and in my eyes the thing that stands out about this game, or at least what is advertised, is a massive persistent war. The split arenas really really take away from this. Instead of viewing it as a persistent war, it just feels like any other FPS I play with different maps every round. I recently started a trial for a game called world war 2 online and while the population isn't very high it is all on one server and one map. It FEELS like a massive persistent war. This game FEELS like a server I joined in Counter-Strike or Call of Duty. I'm not saying I don't like this game, I'm obviously still here, but if a game were to come out tomorrow with everything this game has but all on one server, I would immediately switch.
Berate me all you want for not agreeing with you, I just feel it is a good idea to share my views because I feel like I am part of a generation/group that would be a huge benefit to this game should they be inclined to subscribe. You may agree or disagree that players like me are good for the game, but for the sake of this argument I will say that they are good. Getting players like me to pay for a game monthly is a hard thing to do, getting them to stay is even harder. To keep players like me around, there needs to be something gained that cannot be obtained from anywhere else. Sure, some might say the flight model is the hook for them. Some might say it's the variety of planes. For me, it's the size of the map, amount of players, and the feeling of a persistent war going on.
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You still don't get it and I'm inclined to believe you won't. "Players like me" statements don't do much other then say I want it my way and that's the only way I'm going to stay. There have been lots of 'your generation' that have played and play the game, including many of our own kids. Basically all you are saying is you are to ADHD to make your own fun in a game so you need it made for you. My oldest son played more then his share of Counterstrike, and other games. What he liked about this was it wasn't that game. There is more of a learning curve and you do have lots of choices in how you play the game.
One of the advantages/disadvantages of 'youth' is thinking you know better then the old folks. We've all been there. One of the advantages/disadvantages of having been around the block a few times is realizing that you aren't nearly as smart as you thought you were when you were younger. You laugh a bit and feel slightly embarrassed when your kids talk with that same arrogance and know it all attitude that you once had back then.
One of the things you keep coming back to is that people have been rude or not helpful to you. In the end what it comes across as, is that folks aren't giving you the answers that you want. I suppose what that means is that if you showed a tad bit more respect for the game and the people who created it, as well as those who've been around a bit, they might not come across as 'rude' to you. Something about respect needing to be earned comes to mind.
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Since I'm new I may not know everything about the game, but since I'm new I know some things that older players don't. I have a fresh, untainted (although, obviously not unbiased), view of the game. I don't know what it was like to have Titanic Tuesday every day, but since Titanic Tuesday is my favorite thing, I can only imagine that it was awesome and want to see it happen.
First account was made August 2004.
HiTech
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Oops! Looks like someone stepped in something stinky. :)
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First account was made August 2004.
HiTech
So this newbie We've been helping in the TA and DA is some shade? I think the community deserves to know who.
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BURN HIM!!!!
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First account was made August 2004.
HiTech
Yeah, my dad played back in 2005 I think, he tried to get me to play it a few times but I was big into FPS and Warcraft at that time. I think he only played for like three weeks, I can't remember that well though, that was a long time ago, I was still in highschool. That's how I came to this game, I remembered seeing him play it. Thanks for caring enough to look it up though I guess.
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Yeah, my dad played back in 2005 I think, he tried to get me to play it a few times but I was big into FPS and Warcraft at that time. I think he only played for like three weeks, I can't remember that well though, that was a long time ago, I was still in highschool. That's how I came to this game, I remembered seeing him play it. Thanks for caring enough to look it up though I guess.
Was his name John Doe by any chance?
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Since HiTech seems to be in a shade outing mood, there are a few more that he could fill us in on.
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Well guys and Ol'Farts from way back when you had to know how to set IRQ and which card used what DMA. And why this line in your autoexec.bat had to be right.
MSCDEX.EXE: /D:x /M:n /E /V /L:x /S /K <-----remember DOS game floppies.
Hoff is a member of generation entitlement(Gen-Enti). Chances are good those who are finding fault with his ideas are Gen-X and Boomers. His presentation is a classical look at the real issues of generational differences here in America today. Especially in our workforce.
He is the new demographic in online games. They have grown up on games and technotoys and never had anyone say "NO" to them in their techno toy universe. Nor not been inable to discover all of the hacks and cracks and power ups and wizzy gigs in the gaming universe because they get bored quickly and move from gameing experience to gaming experience. They have the techno attention spans of nanoseconds and vote predominatly with their feelings about everything affecting their lives. Notice how "FEELS" and "me" were used as qualifiers rather than build data supported constructs to attempt to create a mutual concept point from which he can include his differing generational audience in his vision rather than exclude them by inferring his "FEELINGS" trump their experience.
I fFEELl I should be Pope of the universe. I doubt any of you care much less do I. It's a horrible job with no drinking or fornacating and you have to wear a dress. Anyone wanting it just speak up. I'll pay you 2 farthings and a really used Yugo to take it over from me.....
But, regardless of what we Gen-X and Boomers connoisseurs think is the proper and reverent manner in which to partake of our "Simulation", Gen-enties have to be factored into the HTC business model to survive. Get ready to "like" hear alot more "like" feelings about "like" you know this MMO or FPS and it just "FEELS" right, right now.......
Personaly I wouldn't be adverse to TT being left up for 2-3 days in a row from time to time. By about the third day ch200 will start getting vulger and personal. How can we forget the ch200 cesspit sessions and JSO sunday night mega hoards shutting down maps for the night. Or a hoard in each country purposely avoiding each other by using NOE to take out of the way bases all over the map to avoid actually having to fight each other. Then the ch200 cesspit chatter between the hoards after each capture calling each other colorful cowards. But, the hoards would never just up and fight each other. 700 players on and everyone doing their best to sneak around behind each other to take ungaurded bases......what did everybody call this, Hmmmmmmmm....Oh yeah ...STRATEGY......
Oh, by the way. Gen-enties do things as members of groups. Everyone on their PeeWee league teams got trophys for showing up. Otherwise someone supposedly would get their feelings and self esteem hurt. So the Federal government and the ACLU directed the NEA to teach them and their parents about equity of outcome. Skuzzy may have to evict another generation of us old timers here on the forum like he did with the "Flame Warriors"....be careful gentelmen. We have to consider feelings.
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First account was made August 2004.
HiTech
this is called a "zinger"
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First account was made August 2004.
HiTech
Lets play 20 questions...has he logged more than 200 hours in his past toon life?
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Your theory would work if there were just two arenas without caps. Because there are caps, squads can't make the orange or blue server their home because other players might cap their "home" arena. I'd be completely fine with there being two servers to choose from at all times, the caps are just kinda silly. If there were two servers at all times without caps it would be pretty easy to see if people prefer one large server or split servers. I'm putting my money on the former.
Thats the point, my "theory" doesn't work, because it was tried before. If you have 2 arenas with the cap set at 400 the first 400 logged in (this includes those that log in early to "save a spot") go to one arena, and those after MUST go into the other arena because of the cap (we MUST have a cap because anything over 400-450 is an unhealthy arena and deemed bad). So e see one arena with 400 people having fun, and a second arena with 100 people pissed off because there aren't enough people to have fun.
So we have split arenas with a cap system that is designed to load BOTH arenas more evenly (this doesn't mean side balancing). Using the same 500 people, you get basically two arenas with 250 or so each which can be fun.
It is completely unimportant whether "the people" want a single large server, or two split smaller servers. The Company HTC has decided using their subscription data that smaller arenas bring MORE people into the game and so more money into the company, so thats the way it will be. Titanic Tuesday and the "off-hours" arenas are a compromise that HTC instituted to help out "some" players, those that want one big arena, and those that are not flying during US prime time so they don't have the population numbers.
Being here a few weeks, or months is NOT going to give you incite to the workings of this game, or time will. Most of us have played WWII On-Line and most of us are done playing with it. Good luck, maybe it will be more of what your looking for.
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Hoff could possibly be a sham by the registration date of the account. But, the syntactical construct patterns are late teen to not out of his 20s. How many of you still use "like" or the unnessecary "big into" in your speech as modifiers anymore? Also talking about your feelings(FEEL) has become part of our schooling of recent years in some public institutions. Employers frown on that level of undeveloped communication the closer you get to your 30's so at least the modifiers get dropped. I doubt Hoff is out of his 20's. Even Krup speaks and writes well as a teenager until he becomes emotionaly entangled in the outcome of his construct or the thirst for lynching.....BURN HIM....okydoky.
If you think about it only Hitech knows who pays Hoff's bill. What did Hoff say to interest him?
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Hoff could possibly be a sham by the registration date of the account. But, the syntactical construct patterns are late teen to not out of his 20s. How many of you still use "like" or the unnessecary "big into" in your speech as modifiers anymore? Also talking about your feelings(FEEL) has become part of our schooling of recent years in some public institutions. Employers frown on that level of undeveloped communication the closer you get to your 30's so at least the modifiers get dropped. I doubt Hoff is out of his 20's. Even Krup speaks and writes well as a teenager until he becomes emotionaly entangled in the outcome of his construct or the thirst for lynching.....BURN HIM....okydoky.
If you think about it only Hitech knows who pays Hoff's bill. What did Hoff say to interest him?
like what do you meen dude :headscratch:
I feel you are picking on him, and like you know, are being a big meanie.
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I did it again...
Edited for manners.
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Hoff is not an old timer anyone would know. I only pointed it out when he stated he was a new guy with a fresh perspective. He isn't but he also is fairly young.
HiTech
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Hoff is not an old timer anyone would know. I only pointed it out when he stated he was a new guy with a fresh perspective. He isn't but he also is fairly young.
HiTech
That's because I am a new guy with a fresh perspective.....
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That's because I am a new guy with a fresh perspective.....
And a bit full of himself too :)
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oh how i miss those days
X3
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Since HiTech seems to be in a shade outing mood, there are a few more that he could fill us in on.
Well, Maybe it is a shade and maybe it isnt. How active has the account been in the last 7 years?
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I'm not 100% convinced either way, cause I didn't go thru the trash bins in his backyard, but if you asked me I'd say straight up that Hoff is new.
So with that out of the way maybe someone can take his arguments dead on instead of .. for once.. wasting pixels on the tired ol shade jeering fest. On one hand you've got people like Adonai/Butcher who come back and it's the same dishonest lies all over again, on the other you have people like Hoff who as naive and... as disrespectfully "biatchy" as he might've come off to some people, DOES make an effort to articulate what he thinks with a minimum of constructiveness unlike pretty much any other player incl. some very long timers who'll regularly complain or flat out whine on this forum with zero constructive feedback. I think Hoff under the "youth" quirks is a pretty smart guy who isn't just "arrogant". Smart or at least driven to succeed, or stubborn in getting what he wants.
That probably does rub people who just want to take it easy and fly, who aren't about competitiveness (and you have to be to play e.g. Starcraft seriously - that thing is chess on crack) the wrong way. I think his perspective, as off the wall as it might seem, is useful. He doesn't have insider bias.
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The people that played in this Tank Town probably left the game when the caps were put in, so just because Tuesday doesn't have a cap doesn't mean the players are the same as before. I know I wouldn't be paying 15 bucks to play 4 days a month.
(I assume we're talking about the Tank Town in Trinity) Trinity poofed with the new graphics engine a year or 3 ago. (ALL the maps had to be re-done before they could be used again) TT regularly had 1/3 of the entire roster at that time, when it finally came back recently, it was and IS a ghost town...hard to figger why, other than mebbe gv'ers no longer like mindless entertainment?
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Yes, I believe there are enough players. I only need one more to have a fight. I only need a fight to make it fun.
I have fun every time I log in. I find a fight every time I log in.
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ahem.. now that I'm done "praising" the noob that almost no one in this thread has been in contact with other than text on a forum... I'll say something on topic - I have to agree with him that AH needs something more if it means to keep new players. Because as it is, it's still a game that has IMO just enough graphics (cause the old school crispness is definitely something great in its own right) to keep new players interested.. But the overall gameplay from a top level strategic POV is just the same thing over and over. I still like the game (to me the infinite variations of dogfighting will always be what keeps me coming), but from the POV of "continuing subscription growth" something more's needed.
Not sure where to start with suggestions and criticism but.. Either a truly persistent world like WWII online, or ... back to square one unfortunately - something like Combat Tour with persistent career even if (somehow) in a semi persistent (semi because prone to such quick resets) world like the current MAs, or career mode applied to the AvA? ... Or otherwise (another blasphemous idea :P) find a few new people to hire so that HTC can substantially increase output of new planes and other content.
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I know when I started about 14 months ago, I was impressed by the large # of players in each LW arena, OTOH, if I was just starting this afternoon I would see Blue Arena 100/100 and Orange arena 150/200
(hypothetical #'s) and think Hmm, thats not very many (compared to the big #'s i see on TiTuesdays). Here's an idea to make everyone happy, 1 arena capped at 100 for the milkrunners to enjoy unopposed,
and the other (can be called Pink Arena or even Rainbow Warrior arena for all I care) that is 650 cap like when WW1 came out. :banana:
I also want to see more and more new players subscribing, maybe that would do it? It could be worth a try.
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(I assume we're talking about the Tank Town in Trinity) Trinity poofed with the new graphics engine a year or 3 ago. (ALL the maps had to be re-done before they could be used again) TT regularly had 1/3 of the entire roster at that time, when it finally came back recently, it was and IS a ghost town...hard to figger why, other than mebbe gv'ers no longer like mindless entertainment?
The problem is that Tank town these days isn't like the Tank Town of old - a real town where you'd spawn into an immediate fight. Where you'd have to make a short dash to town full of blown up buildings and then worry about turning the next corner. The new TT has too much driving, so unless you have a good number of tankers, it just takes too long to get into a fight.
My own 2 cents is that AH would do well to go back to shorter distances between bases and and spawn points. Fighting is fun, I'd much rather spawn into a fight, then have to drive several minutes to then get blown away by a tank I didn't see, only to have to try it again and hope I saw him this time, only have to try it again. ...
The same goes for flying. These days I fly a four or five minutes, go to engage, get shot down immediately and then have to decide if I want to have the fun of flying another 4 to 5 minutes before I get shot down again.
I chose AH because I was into air combat, not commuting
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Kind of a side point, but just throwing it out there..
I find it a little suspect that War statistics aren't kept track of from map to map and from year to year either in game where they can be checked or on the website. For a game where a lot of players are trying to win the war, and where it is advertised on the front page, you would think it would be a priority to keep score. You are inadvertently devaluing your customer base that enjoys that mode of game play and sports chess piece loyalty.
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ahem.. now that I'm done "praising" the noob that almost no one in this thread has been in contact with other than text on a forum... I'll say something on topic - I have to agree with him that AH needs something more if it means to keep new players. Because as it is, it's still a game that has IMO just enough graphics (cause the old school crispness is definitely something great in its own right) to keep new players interested.. But the overall gameplay from a top level strategic POV is just the same thing over and over. I still like the game (to me the infinite variations of dogfighting will always be what keeps me coming), but from the POV of "continuing subscription growth" something more's needed.
Not sure where to start with suggestions and criticism but.. Either a truly persistent world like WWII online, or ... back to square one unfortunately - something like Combat Tour with persistent career even if (somehow) in a semi persistent (semi because prone to such quick resets) world like the current MAs, or career mode applied to the AvA? ... Or otherwise (another blasphemous idea :P) find a few new people to hire so that HTC can substantially increase output of new planes and other content.
They can start by bringing back the "zone base" system
Folks always seemed to find the zone base relatively important to both take and keep.
Keep the big strat targets but spread em out a bit more. and have local smaller strat targets. Course the whole concept of the strat targets is pointless if they really arent tied into anything meaningful. Something that seems to be occuring to the buff guys based on the declining number of runs on the big strat targets Im seeing.
Of course if they are tied into something meaningful. it also provides for greater incentive to defend them.
As it stands now. Even when a strat target is attacked. There arent a whole lot of people tripping over themselves to try and defend them.
Folks dont just want something to do. They also want a reason to do it. If strat doesnt have a noticble effect on anything. Why bother attacking it when you can bomb a base in 1/4 the time and have an immediate impact. Course sometimes that impact not only irritates foe. But friend alike.
Likewise, why bother trying to defend something. When its not going to impact anything anyway? From a defensive standpoint. Your actually better off just letting them hit the strats un opposed as it takes that many bombers away from hitting the base your flying out of or fighting with for that much longer.
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Kind of a side point, but just throwing it out there..
I find it a little suspect that War statistics aren't kept track of from map to map and from year to year either in game where they can be checked or on the website. For a game where a lot of players are trying to win the war, and where it is advertised on the front page, you would think it would be a priority to keep score. You are inadvertently devaluing your customer base that enjoys that mode of game play and sports chess piece loyalty.
In fairness. It might be better not posting such stats. Reason being is that people like playing for the team that wins the most. If new players see that one side is winning more often then the other two. they may be more inclined to also join that side. Thus creating a further imbalance in numbers at any given time.
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In fairness. It might be better not posting such stats. Reason being is that people like playing for the team that wins the most. If new players see that one side is winning more often then the other two. they may be more inclined to also join that side. Thus creating a further imbalance in numbers at any given time.
That will work until ENY kicks in and they can't fly their ponyz and dweeb16's.
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Thanks m00t. As for the game, what's so bad about the system that World War 2 Online has? You can only attack towns with attack orders on them and the number of attack orders varies based on population. Also, strategic bombing has a real, noticeable, effect in that game. I'm not saying copy it completely, but maybe add in supply trains, convoys, etc. I think there was another game that had something similar to this, but I can't remember. The attack order thing would help with hordes destroying bases before defenses can be set up, because they will only be able to attack in 2-3 spots, allowing defenders to be much more prepared. It would also allow people to get ready for high altitude bombers. It might actually open up the game a bit and allow for more high altitude fights. Currently you kinda just have to make an educated guess and have a fast climbing plane to get the really high bombers. Maybe let it work like CVs, they set their own course randomly, but a high ranking player can change it. Same could be done for attacks, randomly set if a high ranking player doesn't set one within a certain timeframe.
Is it realistic? No, but neither are player caps. For the sake of gameplay I think that attack orders, supply trains, convoys, and more strategic targets that actually do something would greatly improve gameplay. Don't start ranting about how I should just go to World War 2 Online if I don't like it here. I like this game, it has a ton of different aircraft and has a quasi persistent quasi massive world to fight in. World War 2 Online is way more focused on the ground game and completely blows Aces High out of the water in that regard, but Aces High blows World War 2 Online out of the water in the air.
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In fairness. It might be better not posting such stats. Reason being is that people like playing for the team that wins the most. If new players see that one side is winning more often then the other two. they may be more inclined to also join that side. Thus creating a further imbalance in numbers at any given time.
I would agree for the current incarnation of the game. As is, it might be a bad idea (though I personally would love to have it just for statistical purposes :) )
However, I sometimes ask myself if we may reach a point where it might make sense to evolve the game and the "war" into something more persistant.
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In fairness. It might be better not posting such stats. Reason being is that people like playing for the team that wins the most. If new players see that one side is winning more often then the other two. they may be more inclined to also join that side. Thus creating a further imbalance in numbers at any given time.
Maybe, but there are also a lot of people that like flying for the underdogs. How do you quantify the ramifications of stat keeping, good and bad, without trying it?
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Maybe, but there are also a lot of people that like flying for the underdogs. How do you quantify the ramifications of stat keeping, good and bad, without trying it?
Well, looking at how peoples' behavior is currently with the current score stats, I think the extrapolation is pretty simple. The majority like to win with relatively little investment of effort. Being on the winningest side would likely be seen as a good way to do that. When it comes to online games, expecting the worst possible outcome is rarely wrong. <g>
Hoff- Most if not all of the stuff you've listed has been tried in one form or another since the days of AW and failed spectacularly for one reason or another. Hence the backlash when you suggest them. Your suggestions are fresh to you, but are less so to most people who frequent the boards.
I could be wrong, but I think some of those ideas might be worth a billionth look at some point. The people who are coming into the game and are available to be attracted into the game are quite a bit more used to large numbers and just being one of the many faces in the crowd than a few years ago. I personally don't think large numbers is the deterrant it may have been when the arenas were split those many years ago.
Now with that said, I don't think limiting peoples' targets or making strats negatively impact the enemy is a good idea. Look at pretty much any online game, it is virtually impossible for something bad to happen to you anymore. In PVP games, about the only penalty people are willing to put up with is dying and having to respawn. Anything more than that generates ill will.
The limiting of the available targets was apparently tried here a few years ago and was somewhere between a colossal and gargantuan failure. While I personally like the idea of funneling more people into a smaller area, a lot of people who play want the freedom to start something small at a place of their choosing on the map. I just don't see it working.
Wiley.
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Well, looking at how peoples' behavior is currently with the current score stats, I think the extrapolation is pretty simple. The majority like to win with relatively little investment of effort. Being on the winningest side would likely be seen as a good way to do that. When it comes to online games, expecting the worst possible outcome is rarely wrong. <g>
Sorry, but there is no way that can be "extrapolated". In fact, there is no way to prove that the "majority like to win with relatively little effort" and how that even translates to flying for the side with more global war victories. Win the War guys are underestimated. They do like a good challenge. Maybe not in a 1v1 combat sense, but they are challenging themselves in ways that most of us "vets" do not consider. If there is no challenge people quit, I don't care who you are. People also quit when there is no purpose.
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I do not recall the limited target set. I do think it is a good idea.
Don't make the current targets the only areas of fun, but give more perks for attacking the set target. Fewer perks for doing your own thing. Same thing for the defenders, more perks to defend the assigned target.
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I do not recall the limited target set. I do think it is a good idea.
That was the field capture order, and it was a horrible fail.
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In fact, there is no way to prove that the "majority like to win with relatively little effort" and how that even translates to flying for the side with more global war victories.
Ok, what's the motivation to up with a cloud of green and fly to a base where there's no opposition then?
Win the War guys are underestimated. They do like a good challenge. Maybe not in a 1v1 combat sense, but they are challenging themselves in ways that most of us "vets" do not consider. If there is no challenge people quit, I don't care who you are. People also quit when there is no purpose.
Well, I'm not a 'vet' so I can't particularly comment on that. The challenge they appear to be working toward most of the time looks to me like 'to reset the arena as quickly as possible' whatever form that takes, usually overwhelming local force. Perhaps a better phrasing would have been 'like to use the surest way to win'.
Wiley.
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That was the field capture order, and it was a horrible fail.
Going to hang on a limb and say if was implimented poorly then. We really need some way to focus the fight.
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Going to hang on a limb and say if was implimented poorly then.
I won't disagree with that statement ;)
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Sorry, but there is no way that can be "extrapolated". In fact, there is no way to prove that the "majority like to win with relatively little effort" and how that even translates to flying for the side with more global war victories. Win the War guys are underestimated. They do like a good challenge. Maybe not in a 1v1 combat sense, but they are challenging themselves in ways that most of us "vets" do not consider. If there is no challenge people quit, I don't care who you are. People also quit when there is no purpose.
I agree with Grizz on this but I see it as a totally different distinction.
There isn't "Win the war types" and "everyone else". Its, and I think what Grizz is getting at, the "I want to feel accomplished" and thats it.
AH has a very unstructured environment coupled with steep learning curves and this "I want to feel accomplished" desire can be satisfied by many means by which those who view the game as a sport would view as unfair. Granted, they may hide behind "Thats what real war is like", but even they know that is a BS argument (or they are totally moronic).
The conflict arises when people feel like "hey I put my time in to learn this game and you poked this effort by using huge numerical adv". The frustration rises and the general feeling of "working hard != reward" angers them. At the same time the horde thinks they did something and they all pat each others backs and fan each others egos as all 20 of them shot down one plane. This phenomenon is blamed as the 'Quake generation', the 'youngers', etc.. but its not, its just a simple matter that people want to feel accomplished by any means necessary and this is why Sports have rules.... (to level the playing field and limit the nonsense).
This puts HTC in a tough place. If he attracts too many new people, they all resort to "Any means necessary", and the older players quit out of frustration. If he doesn't attract enough new players, the game dies.
FYI, with the exception of a few, I think most of the vguys will move on to other aspects of the game, as they become better sticks for example...
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See rule #4
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See rule #4
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I agree with Grizz on this
I can imagine why.
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I can imagine why.
you can can ya..... :aok
that's actually not a "thumbs up" but its the closest one to the one I want to use.
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I can imagine why.
Me too cause its correct..
Nice bone quote there, I guess you agree.
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Lusche if I remember correctly, the order of base taking was a single sequence. But if there would be more of them as the number of players increase in the arena. For example if you had another sequence everytime 25 more players are joining, it would mean 4 different bases could be attacked/taken if there is 100 players. I think this idea has something different than what we got in the past. :aok
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That idea does sound good. Or like was said before, targets could be assigned. Players would then be awarded more perks for attacking/defending the assigned targets.
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This could give us two more stats, zone defense time/zone attack time.
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Me too cause its correct..
Nice bone quote there, I guess you agree.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
That quote/link is from their private BBS
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Now thats what I call an impact :aok
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Atleast he speaks with truth :) :banana:
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Oh oh, I detect a thread hijack imminent! The question is, who will get the last word? :)
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Atleast he speaks with truth :) :banana:
That he want's to screw us?
Your right, everyone in the muppets in male, and so is DrBone... Ask him how does it feel to finally come clean and out of the closet? ;)
We appreciate the flattery, but none of us swing that way (to my knowledge).
Oh oh, I detect a thread hijack imminent! The question is, who will get the last word? :)
Nothing like a good ol' muppet vs crumpet thread.
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Atleast he speaks with truth :) :banana:
So, who is not speaking with truth here?
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Oh oh, I detect a thread hijack imminent! The question is, who will get the last word? :)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r102/Hoser-eh/pissingcontest.jpg)
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When the area splits happened is when I started to lose interest. Mainly because 9 times out of 10 I would log in, see that most of my squadies were in one of the LW arenas and it was always capped, and I wouldn't be able to fly with my squad. My only choice was to go to another arena and fly with people I didn't know, or sit there and wait, hoping the cap would change and let me log in to fly with my friends. It was frustrating and it sucked.
Back before the caps when I logged in I KNEW I was going to get to fly and fight with my squad. Didn't matter if our "country" was outnumbered or not, we would either deffend our fields, or we would go on the attack. Point was we were flying together and having fun. All that went by the wayside in order to make things more "fair" in the arenas with population caps and side balancing.
You only know your squaddies? Wow
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Sorry, but there is no way that can be "extrapolated". In fact, there is no way to prove that the "majority like to win with relatively little effort" and how that even translates to flying for the side with more global war victories. Win the War guys are underestimated. They do like a good challenge. Maybe not in a 1v1 combat sense, but they are challenging themselves in ways that most of us "vets" do not consider. If there is no challenge people quit, I don't care who you are. People also quit when there is no purpose.
there is a reason there are only 3 countries and that all countries opposing your county are the same color. while this is a fantastic game that HT, Pyro and crew have created it's not their first rodeo.
I can personally attest to the fact that people will gravitate to the country they perceive as "doing the best" and that multiple countries will gang up on one when they can easily tell them apart. I am not saying that it can not be fun being on the receiving end of that but we also had much lower numbers and you could and did know everybody that was logged in at the time.
I've only been back a short time and been away for an awfully long time but when you learn your craft in the furball at A1 you don't forget and your blood always pounds with the call of "purps and frogs inc!!!!".
shdo
Yip Yip Yip!
p.s. HT could we get one arena with the old "close and land" capture back please???? :)
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That was the field capture order, and it was a horrible fail.
Dont know if we're talking about the same thing or not. I dont think so though
When I was speaking of zone bases I meant when there was one primary base for a series of bases in that zone.
If that base were captured it effected supply to the remaining bases in that zone. For example if the zone base were captured. Any damage to supplies (ord,troops,fuel) would either not occur or occur at a greatly reduced pace.
I remember a great many fights taking place around people rallying to tr to either capture or prevent the capture of the zone bases.
If we assume that we are both talking about the same thing. I would not by any stretch of the imagination consider that a failure.
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Dont know if we're talking about the same thing or not. I dont think so though
No we are not. ;)
Your term "limited target set" did set me on the wrong track then, because in my understanding the zone bases did not limit the players to a particular target - in fact,the zone base had been often ignored/bypassed for some easier targets first.
The capture order however did truly limit the possible targets, forcing the players to attack certain bases or not at all.
To prevent any misunderstanding - I DO want the zone bases back (and at least railyards acting at resupply multipliers associated with them, located in the now deserted places of the old stats)
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Now with that said, I don't think making strats negatively impact the enemy is a good idea. Look at pretty much any online game, it is virtually impossible for something bad to happen to you anymore. In PVP games, about the only penalty people are willing to put up with is dying and having to respawn. Anything more than that generates ill will.
Wiley.
Couldnt disagree more. For one thing. This isnt just any online game and has very little in common with other online games. As anyone who played AW could tell you. Not only did strat targets work. But they worked very very well.
As for ill will
As hitech himself said. The object is to pi$$ the other guy off.
They will tolerate it because they can retaliate in kind.
The idea of having strat targets isnt to outright cripple the other side outright. But to have just enough effect in selected areas to make defending such targets preferable.
In Aw it was the spit factory. And HQ Radar. Even though the other side only lost spits for 15 min. It was enough to make people want to defend against it.
Were there howls? sure. But your going to have that anyway. And as it was said in the movie "Flyboys" when it was complained about how an opponent attacked "Your the man in the plane. Your the man with the guns." We have the same howls here. Dar goes down and people complain that dar is down, or hangars. but your the one in the cartoon airplane that can stop it. And if you dont. Then who's fault is it really?
Plus you have every opportunity to respond in kind. Its neither the game designers nor other guys fault if you dont take advantage of that.
You really going to try to tell me that the loss of say specific high eny planes, or GVs for 15 minutes is going to have such a detrimental effect of ill will that the game cant handle it?
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Couldnt disagree more. For one thing. This isnt just any online game and has very little in common with other online games. As anyone who played AW could tell you. Not only did strat targets work. But they worked very very well.
I played,and they sucked and worked very poorly.
HiTech
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there is a reason there are only 3 countries and that all countries opposing your county are the same color.
Actually you can set the individual countries to be whatever color you want.
For example. For the longest time I had bish set as orange and the rooks set as yellow...for obvious reasons ;)
Now I just have them all set as red cause...well a turd is a turd. :bolt:
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I played,and they sucked and worked very poorly.
HiTech
We couldnt possibly disagree more then. And I know more then quite a few who feel the same. Personally and to be completely honest. I think the current system rather sucks as is rather evident by the reduced missions to strats.
But...between the two of us. Your the only one here with the power to make that kind of change in implementation and between the two of us, allowed a proverbial gun here. So...
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Well, looking at how peoples' behavior is currently with the current score stats, I think the extrapolation is pretty simple. The majority like to win with relatively little investment of effort. Being on the winningest side would likely be seen as a good way to do that. When it comes to online games, expecting the worst possible outcome is rarely wrong. <g>
Hoff- Most if not all of the stuff you've listed has been tried in one form or another since the days of AW and failed spectacularly for one reason or another. Hence the backlash when you suggest them. Your suggestions are fresh to you, but are less so to most people who frequent the boards.
I could be wrong, but I think some of those ideas might be worth a billionth look at some point. The people who are coming into the game and are available to be attracted into the game are quite a bit more used to large numbers and just being one of the many faces in the crowd than a few years ago. I personally don't think large numbers is the deterrant it may have been when the arenas were split those many years ago.
Now with that said, I don't think limiting peoples' targets or making strats negatively impact the enemy is a good idea. Look at pretty much any online game, it is virtually impossible for something bad to happen to you anymore. In PVP games, about the only penalty people are willing to put up with is dying and having to respawn. Anything more than that generates ill will.
The limiting of the available targets was apparently tried here a few years ago and was somewhere between a colossal and gargantuan failure. While I personally like the idea of funneling more people into a smaller area, a lot of people who play want the freedom to start something small at a place of their choosing on the map. I just don't see it working.
Wiley.
For most of the population of MMO players in my generation that is true. For the ones that would play a game like this though, that couldn't be further from the truth. I loved EVE online, where if you died, you lost your stuff, period. You could be attacked pretty much anywhere by anyone too. Consequences for the most part were doled out by the players, not game mechanics. So seeing strategic targets that actually have big consequences if you lose them is very intriguing to me.
Currently there are only two games on the market that have a large persistent war going on in a single server. World War 2 Online and Planetside. Planetside is dead (and actually had 2 U.S. and 1 EU server, but not caps) and World War 2 Online is sparsely populated from what I can tell. The question that needs to be answered is this: Is Aces High trying to be a persistent war simulation or simply a furball game with nearly meaningless objective based gameplay?
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Note what you wrote in your last paragraph at the beginning, and then answer your own question about what AH is and isn't
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You really going to try to tell me that the loss of say specific high eny planes, or GVs for 15 minutes is going to have such a detrimental effect of ill will that the game cant handle it?
Yup. Look what happens when there's a good fight going and the fun police drop the hangars. It's only for 15 minutes, right? Yet the vitriol flows. And that's only at one base. Now imagine that effect being applied to the entire map.
For most of the population of MMO players in my generation that is true. For the ones that would play a game like this though, that couldn't be further from the truth. I loved EVE online, where if you died, you lost your stuff, period. You could be attacked pretty much anywhere by anyone too. Consequences for the most part were doled out by the players, not game mechanics. So seeing strategic targets that actually have big consequences if you lose them is very intriguing to me.
EVE's an oddball, as from what I've seen, people who play that have a helluva masochistic streak. You can make the case people here are similar, but I think people who play EVE will put up with more than any other group of gamers out there. I wish there were more games like that, as it would be nice to have some consequences to gameplay, but I just don't see it happening here. You can see what happens here once one side gets the upper hand over an enemy base, it's rare the people from the side that was pushed back don't leave for someplace else. It happens occasionally, and when it does it's beautiful, but it's not that common.
The question that needs to be answered is this: Is Aces High trying to be a persistent war simulation or simply a furball game with nearly meaningless objective based gameplay?
...Why? It's 'strategy lite', a bit better than a straight up capture the flag style game, but I think part of the problem with a persistent war single server setup is people will have a tendency to burn out on it if that's the only option. Otherwise, the AvA arena would be the hotspot in this game.
Wiley.
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I think Aces High is TRYING to be the best combat flight sim on the market.
I also think that what the majority of the players WANT (or, in a nod to Hitech, THINK they want) is a persistent "war simulation".
The two aren't mutually exclusive, but for the majority of the player base they may as well be.
Really the only way there can be a "war" (with as much of that as is compatible with a computer game) is if there was no communication between teams (to maximize dehumanization of the "enemy"), and meaningful objectives (which the MA actually DOES provide, just at the cost of the aim of being a combat flight simulator), and some penalty for death.
I honestly do feel that AH's future lies in the direction of a combined arms "war sim". Of course, it isn't my game :).
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We couldnt possibly disagree more then. And I know more then quite a few who feel the same. Personally and to be completely honest. I think the current system rather sucks as is rather evident by the reduced missions to strats.
But...between the two of us. Your the only one here with the power to make that kind of change in implementation and between the two of us, allowed a proverbial gun here. So...
I think the reduced missions to strat are due to player mentality. Todays player is looking for the quick win, be that HO for a fast kill, or horde base after base to win the war that is what most of the players do and so I must think "want". Taking out strat has nothing to do with grabbing bases espescially if you can just roll over most of them in under 10 minutes anyway.... why bother flying all the way out to the start?
For most of the population of MMO players in my generation that is true. For the ones that would play a game like this though, that couldn't be further from the truth. I loved EVE online, where if you died, you lost your stuff, period. You could be attacked pretty much anywhere by anyone too. Consequences for the most part were doled out by the players, not game mechanics. So seeing strategic targets that actually have big consequences if you lose them is very intriguing to me.
Currently there are only two games on the market that have a large persistent war going on in a single server. World War 2 Online and Planetside. Planetside is dead (and actually had 2 U.S. and 1 EU server, but not caps) and World War 2 Online is sparsely populated from what I can tell. The question that needs to be answered is this: Is Aces High trying to be a persistent war simulation or simply a furball game with nearly meaningless objective based gameplay?
Why do you think those games are dead, and this one is still going after 10 years? Maybe a large persistent war going on a single server ISN'T the way to go.
The issue is that "most" of the players today are NOT into war, they are just capturing bases until the map resets. Call it winning the war, call it reset. To them it's the same. WWII Online war can't be won in a week. Remember the complaints about maps lasting more than a week in here? Todays players aren't looking for a fight, nor rivalries, nor challenges. Their goal is to reset the map....and get a few perks.
If they were looking for fights they wouldn't be in the local horde trying to capture a base, they would be trying to defend bases with caps and fighter sweeps.
If they were looking for rivalries, they would be looking for those squads that are on at the same time they are and go head to head and try to capture bases from them and the other would try to do the same. Instead they spend all of their time avoiding other groups, and run to the other side of the map when they run into resistance.
If they were looking for challenges they would hit the city, then the factories and then take out whole fronts of bases and their supplies....or try to :devil
But all that stuff is too much work! Run missions to drop ords at a few bases at the same time? Try to capture 3 bases at once? Do co-ordinated attack using GVs, buffs, and fights? Why bother, 20 heavy 110s and 5 goons will get you rolling right along with out much trouble.
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I would argue that World War 2 Online has as many players online as Aces High does and it's been around for quite a while. I would also argue that World War 2 Online had way more players at some point. Planetside failed because SOE is retarded (hello SWG).
People don't take out strategic targets because it takes only a few hours of just zerging bases to win the map with the current "war." Why can't the game require one country to take a capitol before they win? Those clusters of factories/cities/capitol look awesome and I'd love to fight in/around it, but it NEVER happens. There is no war currently, it feels like a battlefield map where you take maybe two or three bases and you win (I know it's more than two or three, but not by much). This is silly especially with how easy it is to fly under radar with 20 or less people and immediately take down every spawn building before defenders can even spawn onto the runway to attempt a defense. Attack orders like in World War 2 Online would allow defenders to actually defend. I'm not going to repeat my reasoning behind it, but if you care, you can look back when I talked about it a couple pages ago. I don't know what the sequential base order thing was, but attack orders sounds different from what that was.
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I think you've nailed the problem, just not the solution :)
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Quote from: Hoff
This is silly especially with how easy it is to fly under radar with 20 or less people and immediately take down every spawn building before defenders can even spawn onto the runway to attempt a defense.
Bases flash upon entering dar ring, giving guys a chance to take off. Quite a few times when attempting an noe raid, the enemy defenders take off in at least 1,2, or 3's and immediately hunt the c47 or try to kill a few bombers to run a drop or fight off a few fighters. Have then seen more hordes of enemy defenders take off from a base to run immediately to the town and shoot down/defend. Have seen a few missions fail because they get a cap. Have seen us do the same thing against an incoming raid and ruin their base capture.
But, what is also being overlooked here is that the enemy is also attacking multiple other bases at the same time, and keep the enemies tied up in a furbal or attack, while they capture around the long way.
But I agree about the strat targets. Would be more fun to use, and so would missions to kill trains be but those are overlooked as part of strat because they hold very little value vs. other valued objects in the game.
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Just one thing... IMO WWIIOL might not be empty if its flight model wasn't so bad. Or the other way around, since I never played WWIIOL (maybe someone who played it long term can chime in, e.g. Vulcan IIRC), if AH had as elaborate or at least as rich a ground/fps war, without diminishing the air war, it ought to have more players than it'd know what to do with.
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Just one thing... IMO WWIIOL might not be empty if its flight model wasn't so bad. Or the other way around, since I never played WWIIOL (maybe someone who played it long term can chime in, e.g. Vulcan IIRC), if AH had as elaborate or at least as rich a ground/fps war, without diminishing the air war, it ought to have more players than it'd know what to do with.
There isn't a well defined front, nor many maps with strategic choke points etc... More than that, 'progress' is only outlined in the number of 'bases' taken. Maybe something with more...
1) ways to cripple the other team
2) Well defined border with maps that encouraged some strategic objective, (like taking a bridge, or crossing a pass)
3) More structure to support the 'war', ie you can't just spawn willy-nilly, you have to secure a supply line, have the strats to do it, etc...
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The Few are so competitive that even agreeing with their rival on the BBS is an act of defeat.
Spek I promise, next time you say something intelligent I will give you a big +1.
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Is Aces High trying to be a persistent war simulation or simply a furball game with nearly meaningless objective based gameplay?
AH is meant, IMHO, to be the best flight dynamics-oriented air combat sim. The objective based gameplay is there because without it you get something like the WWI arena where the absolute freedom means that the quality of gameplay is 100% (not 99%) in players' hands. The opposite of this is the special events where there's multiple layers of organization. So the obvious thing was to automate that organization, like Combat Tour was meant to. You can look that up and see for yourself what the next big part of AH was meant to be - in a nutshell a persistent "Career" mode with historically correct immersion like being rewarded/penalized for furballing randomly and getting your squaddies killed. You had missions automatically rolling periodically, with AI filling in for players so that you always had e.g. huge bomber formations and lots of convoys and other stuff enriching the whole experience or even being the actual mission objectives - so that there was much more variety of missions.
This is one game trend that does apply to pretty much all games, and that's been true for a long time. It's why the "epic" feeling of an old game like Wing Commander III, or a single player game like Final Fantasy, or even a game like Counter Strike, depends on someone somewhere providing either a story (WC & FF) or some setting (CS maps) for players to immerse themselves in and channel their gameplay thru. In a single player game like WC-III or FF it's obvious - no one is going to play "aeris" or the guy in the item shop that you see 1 time in the whole game for 5 seconds tops. No one is going to fly the C47 whose only purpose is basically to be cannon fodder for another player. In a game like Counter Strike, the same thing is there too even if differently: the very high quality maps are what shapes the gameplay into something fun instead of something bland and repetitive.
This substance is what's missing from AH when you fail to find that "magic recipe" that both leaves as much freedom as possible to players, but at the same time channels them in such a way that it produces quality gameplay. AH is about the dynamics of air combat (ie not flipping switches and memorizing & following strict instrument protocols) -- so even in Combat Tour it was still about air combat rather than pre-flight checks and micromanaging a dozen gauges in your cockpit. Combat Tour would actually teleport you to the action to save you the boredom of that part of "reality".
This is one of the fundamental things you gotta get right in the MA: if you leave it all to players, nothing's going to happen. It's just going to turn into a slum, gameplay wise. There needs to be some strat framework that catalyzes air combat, without infringing on or choking it - without either making it boring (forcing players to do combat patrols with no guarantee of action, or forcing them to do anything if too few of the "mandatory" choices are fun e.g. having a whole encyclopedic choice of dogfighting and other fighter jock missions, but no ground vehicle or ground attack/bomber missions) or unfair (that's what it was like before ENY or what it'd be like if all planes were unperked).
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Well thought out. Nicely put.
Regards,
Wab
AH is meant, IMHO, to be the best flight dynamics-oriented air combat sim. The objective based gameplay is there because without it you get something like the WWI arena where the absolute freedom means that the quality of gameplay is 100% (not 99%) in players' hands. The opposite of this is the special events where there's multiple layers of organization. So the obvious thing was to automate that organization, like Combat Tour was meant to. You can look that up and see for yourself what the next big part of AH was meant to be - in a nutshell a persistent "Career" mode with historically correct immersion like being rewarded/penalized for furballing randomly and getting your squaddies killed. You had missions automatically rolling periodically, with AI filling in for players so that you always had e.g. huge bomber formations and lots of convoys and other stuff enriching the whole experience or even being the actual mission objectives - so that there was much more variety of missions.
This is one game trend that does apply to pretty much all games, and that's been true for a long time. It's why the "epic" feeling of an old game like Wing Commander III, or a single player game like Final Fantasy, or even a game like Counter Strike, depends on someone somewhere providing either a story (WC & FF) or some setting (CS maps) for players to immerse themselves in and channel their gameplay thru. In a single player game like WC-III or FF it's obvious - no one is going to play "aeris" or the guy in the item shop that you see 1 time in the whole game for 5 seconds tops. No one is going to fly the C47 whose only purpose is basically to be cannon fodder for another player. In a game like Counter Strike, the same thing is there too even if differently: the very high quality maps are what shapes the gameplay into something fun instead of something bland and repetitive.
This substance is what's missing from AH when you fail to find that "magic recipe" that both leaves as much freedom as possible to players, but at the same time channels them in such a way that it produces quality gameplay. AH is about the dynamics of air combat (ie not flipping switches and memorizing & following strict instrument protocols) -- so even in Combat Tour it was still about air combat rather than pre-flight checks and micromanaging a dozen gauges in your cockpit. Combat Tour would actually teleport you to the action to save you the boredom of that part of "reality".
This is one of the fundamental things you gotta get right in the MA: if you leave it all to players, nothing's going to happen. It's just going to turn into a slum, gameplay wise. There needs to be some strat framework that catalyzes air combat, without infringing on or choking it - without either making it boring (forcing players to do combat patrols with no guarantee of action, or forcing them to do anything if too few of the "mandatory" choices are fun e.g. having a whole encyclopedic choice of dogfighting and other fighter jock missions, but no ground vehicle or ground attack/bomber missions) or unfair (that's what it was like before ENY or what it'd be like if all planes were unperked).
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Yup. Look what happens when there's a good fight going and the fun police drop the hangars. It's only for 15 minutes, right? Yet the vitriol flows. And that's only at one base. Now imagine that effect being applied to the entire map.
Wiley.
But Im not talking about killing off all the planes for an entire country. Only a select few. This wouldnt prevent people form upping. Only those wishing to up a certain plane. There are more then enough folks who fly a variety of different planes that this would have minimal impact on upping planes.
For example. You telling me the arena would fall apart if one side for example couldn't up spit 16s for 15 min?
AH has some major advantages over AW when it comes to this kind of targeting. Firstly a vastly improved plane selection. Again as an example. How many variants of the spit do we have now? Secondly a wider variety of people who fly a wider variety of planes.
This would have no more a disruption then ENY. With the added benefit that it would only last 15 min.
With all due respect to HT (and I do mean that). The only ones I remember disliking the spit factory targets we the ones that only flew spits. When I talk with other former AWers. One of the things that consistently gets brought up and reminisced about are the runs to the spit factories.
Now ok granted some of the strat did leave a bit something to be desired. If a maint shack was down you never knew you were going to up in a plane that was leaking oil already or not for example. And this could certainly suck for the front line furballers so I kinda get that. On the other hand it did add a sense of realism.
Cant very well fix a plane if the building holding the parts is destroyed.
Perhaps there is a workable work around for both.
tie strat to a zone type system. Where only bases would be effected within a certain zone.
Make the factories for say, heavy bombers. This should keep the buff guys at each others throats. Both attacking and defending those targets.Gives em something to do and a reason to do it. Yet would do little to effect the furball crowd other then to maybe. Rid themselves of the threat of bombers taking all the hangars down. LOL
For strats. tie those into zones as well. Have a re arm pad for re arming and refueling, and if you want your plane repaired without towering out. You pull into the hangar.
If the strats are hit in that bases area. You cant re arm on the rearming pad or repair in the hangars without towering out.
Again. Has an effect without really hurting the furballers. Yet gives people a reason to hit or defend.
As it stands now the strat targets are pointless other then because they are there. It makes infinitely more sense and takes a hell of alot less time form a bombing perspective to just drop the hangars at a base with a furball.
When buffs do head to strats. Few bother to up to stop them. No reason to. Eventually this has to get pretty boring for buff pilots when if your lucky maybe a plane or two will come after you. Might as well just play MSFS and fly a 747 around.
I personally beleive (And buff drivers out there can either confirm or deny this) that buff pilots actually want to have to fight their way into a target. thats part of the thrill of it. They also want to have an effect on something and not just farm perks. Thats why the local bases are far more popular then the strats. Again. whats the point of flying all that way when few are going to try to stop you. To hit a target that for all intents and purposes.. doesnt do anything?
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Grizz I honestly think that this forum is nothing better than a high school. So much drama BS.
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I would argue that World War 2 Online has as many players online as Aces High does and it's been around for quite a while. I would also argue that World War 2 Online had way more players at some point. Planetside failed because SOE is retarded (hello SWG).
People don't take out strategic targets because it takes only a few hours of just zerging bases to win the map with the current "war." Why can't the game require one country to take a capitol before they win? Those clusters of factories/cities/capitol look awesome and I'd love to fight in/around it, but it NEVER happens. There is no war currently, it feels like a battlefield map where you take maybe two or three bases and you win (I know it's more than two or three, but not by much). This is silly especially with how easy it is to fly under radar with 20 or less people and immediately take down every spawn building before defenders can even spawn onto the runway to attempt a defense. Attack orders like in World War 2 Online would allow defenders to actually defend. I'm not going to repeat my reasoning behind it, but if you care, you can look back when I talked about it a couple pages ago. I don't know what the sequential base order thing was, but attack orders sounds different from what that was.
Unlike some, I do read the whole thread before I think about whether or not I'll reply. WWII OnLine came out after Aces High did, I still have the original box for the game WWII OnLine. Back then you could only fight in certain areas as long as there weren't too many people there. Too many people created lag so they got around it by herding people to different areas.... servers. The air game sucked, and there was so many cheat and loop holes that it wasn't in the least bit fun. I think I lasted 6 months there.
In the old days here the players made the game what it was, much like they do now. In the old days you had mostly older guys with a deep interest in WWII. Pretending to live those days back in the 40's is how the game was played. You fought battles, you made plans, you recruited other squads/player to help you achieve goals. The goals included capture, porking, fighter sweeps to look for counter attacks, and yes even strat runs. I ran more goons to HQ than I think I ever did to capture bases.
Todays players are much more of the do it now type, get'er done! I'll bet you could ask people which countries fought for the Axis, and which for the Allies and half wouldn't come close with out the help of Google. It's not that they are stupid, it's that it is unimportant. They don't care who was on which side, it doesn't help them roll bases so why bother with it.
I think the game needs more structure, to get players away from just running all out grabbing bases as fast as they can. Maybe instead of "wining the war" for perks the "message of the day" can have orders. Territory that must be captured, intel about which bases the enemy may be after, perk awards for achieving these things by a certain time. More goals to split the hordes up.
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Grizz I honestly think that this forum is nothing better than a Jr high school. So much drama BS.
There, that's even more accurate.
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Unlike some, I do read the whole thread before I think about whether or not I'll reply. WWII OnLine came out after Aces High did, I still have the original box for the game WWII OnLine. Back then you could only fight in certain areas as long as there weren't too many people there. Too many people created lag so they got around it by herding people to different areas.... servers. The air game sucked, and there was so many cheat and loop holes that it wasn't in the least bit fun. I think I lasted 6 months there.
In the old days here the players made the game what it was, much like they do now. In the old days you had mostly older guys with a deep interest in WWII. Pretending to live those days back in the 40's is how the game was played. You fought battles, you made plans, you recruited other squads/player to help you achieve goals. The goals included capture, porking, fighter sweeps to look for counter attacks, and yes even strat runs. I ran more goons to HQ than I think I ever did to capture bases.
Todays players are much more of the do it now type, get'er done! I'll bet you could ask people which countries fought for the Axis, and which for the Allies and half wouldn't come close with out the help of Google. It's not that they are stupid, it's that it is unimportant. They don't care who was on which side, it doesn't help them roll bases so why bother with it.
I think the game needs more structure, to get players away from just running all out grabbing bases as fast as they can. Maybe instead of "wining the war" for perks the "message of the day" can have orders. Territory that must be captured, intel about which bases the enemy may be after, perk awards for achieving these things by a certain time. More goals to split the hordes up.
Take out the first paragraph and your argument becomes much more solid. You constantly berate me for being young, yet you're the only one slinging insults around. I never said World War 2 Online came out first, nor did I say that it had a flawless launch. What I do know about World War 2 Online is that they have an actual persistent war with strategic targets that matter. I also know that at their peak, they had way more players than Aces High. The game you are talking about didn't really exist for very long. Comparing the old versions of both games to each other is silly. It would be like comparing Starcraft: Brood War to Warcraft II even though Starcraft II and Warcraft III are already out. It just doesn't make any sense and doesn't add anything to the discussion.
I remember playing old FPS games on a 56k modem. I remember playing MMORPGs where the players had to make their own content (sandbox). EVE online is still around with that model and has done nothing but grow over the years, but it doesn't have anywhere near the numbers that the major "theme park" MMOs have where a lot of the content is scripted. What I'm trying to say is that games evolve or they become extremely niche. Again, the question is do they want this game to have a small and loyal playerbase or try to attract a larger crowd?
As for being history buffs. I'm fairly confident in my World War 2 knowledge, but that doesn't mean I want to have a full war simulation. I want the planes to behave historically, but I don't want to go on multiple hour long sorties with the possibility of not even seeing an enemy. Snapshots are available for those that do. The current bases are spaced really closely together such that you have to try really hard to fly for more than ten minutes toward an enemy base and not find an enemy. I like that, but there are times where I may want to sit back and watch the ballgame while auto climbing in a bomber and go bomb something. Adding in some real strategic targets could possibly increase the number of people flying high level bombing attacks and since they will show up on radar and have to fly way behind enemy lines, fighters would be able to intercept them. This could lead to some interesting fights to go along with the base fights. I'd also like to see some actual flak guns on the fields. The factory that produces them could make for a good strategic target. The flak would make it much harder for people to simply swarm a base. A high altitude bomber would have to take the flak out before the smaller planes could get near the field. Taking out the strategic factory could accomplish the same thing, as could ground vehicles or cruiser guns.
That brings me to my realization of the problem. My solutions may not be the best choice or the most popular but the problem remains. The problem is that currently, the best way to win the war is to take the bases as fast as possible and ignore strategic targets. The fastest way to take bases is to zerg them. It's very hard to take out all the bombers and fighter bombers using short range AA (they fire their rockets and drop their bombs before you can come close to killing them) and your own fighters. It's very very difficult to counter a horde of fighter bombers hellbent on beelining towards the base with their ords. So the problem is that to win the war, there are no other options than to take bases and taking bases is best accomplished by zerging. There needs to be more options to take bases and there needs to be more options for base defense. Cutting off supplies, large flak guns, destroying factories for said flak guns, etc.
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Combat Tour sounds like an extremely immersive and fresh idea, I for one believe it would bring new guys flooding in & old players running back. Here's hoping that it still comes out.
I like the Idea of an "AI General" too, for our current game, Perks for attacking assigned targets
could definitely increase gameplay quality, and help with the horde mentality. Eventually, a lot of the "Hordelings" find out that hordes=nothing but assists and killshoooting, whereas following orders will fill their perk coffers.
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To the OP. Those days a long gone. They left the day HT neutered TT and added that goofy arena cap thing.
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Speaking of bombers I quit flying them and I used to do so all the time however I did fly the new Mossies once and the B-29's once just to try them out. Being a loner I used to like to fly strat runs. Now with the big complexes located right next to the Me-163 bases I'm not really excited to fly two hours to get shot down by a couple of 163's and climbing to my normal 20K+ to hit a few hangers doesn't really do much for me.
In fact the movement of the strats made a huge difference in both individual and group gameplay. If I had logged on with 45 people and no real fights as with last weekend I might have taken a GV or a bomber to a strat and still had some fun, maybe even drawing an enemy or two as I did so, but as it is those options are gone. It used to be fun to take an Skd or a PT to the strats and try rocketing them; all lost with the changes to the strats.
I really just want something to do when I log on and forgive me for being selfish but I'd like that to be more than one out of three times I log on.
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There are more then enough folks who fly a variety of different planes that this would have minimal impact on upping planes.
There are also more than enough folks who fly a single aircraft obsessively that this would have maximal impact on upping planes.
For example. You telling me the arena would fall apart if one side for example couldn't up spit 16s for 15 min?
Nope, I'm telling you people would be upset over it. Some would grab a different plane, some would log, some would quit.
AH has some major advantages over AW when it comes to this kind of targeting. Firstly a vastly improved plane selection. Again as an example. How many variants of the spit do we have now? Secondly a wider variety of people who fly a wider variety of planes.
This would have no more a disruption then ENY. With the added benefit that it would only last 15 min.
*shrug* I'm just saying it's a bad idea to put the country's ability to fly a certain plane in the hands of the other side. I can pretty easily envision guys with a lot of time on their hands obsessively keeping the factories down.
Now ok granted some of the strat did leave a bit something to be desired. If a maint shack was down you never knew you were going to up in a plane that was leaking oil already or not for example. And this could certainly suck for the front line furballers so I kinda get that. On the other hand it did add a sense of realism.
Cant very well fix a plane if the building holding the parts is destroyed.
Realistic != fun in some cases, this would be one of them.
Wiley.
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*shrug* I'm just saying it's a bad idea to put the country's ability to fly a certain plane in the hands of the other side. I can pretty easily envision guys with a lot of time on their hands obsessively keeping the factories down.
Realistic != fun in some cases, this would be one of them.
Wiley.
Aren't you the one who just defended massive hordes with the argument 'you have to learn to counter them' and now you can't even stop a couple of players porking fields "obsessively"? LOL!
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Aren't you the one who just defended massive hordes with the argument 'you have to learn to counter them' and now you can't even stop a couple of players porking fields "obsessively"? LOL!
Not sure about your first comment, I don't recall crusading in favor of massive hordes saying you just have to learn to counter them... I've often stated I like large fights as opposed to smaller fights, but that's irrelevant in any case.
What is the 'me' implied in what we're talking about here? I'm just saying with the amount of nearly OCD people who are willing to keep upping to bomb and bail a field to keep ords/radar down, I could easily see that kind of logic being applied to a factory that when down, disables a plane type. I'm also stating I believe that would be detrimental to gameplay. It ain't rocket science.
Wiley.
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Most nights, other than Tuesday, I spend a lot of time looking for the enemy rather than engaging the enemy. Since I only have 2 hours a night to play this is not the best use of my time. Even Friday and Saturday nights in the MA are boring as the squad ops and special events drain 300 or more players from the MA. Wouldn't it make sense to at least extend the "off hours" concept to Friday and Saturday nights, not to mention permanently? It seems you need at least 300 players in an arena to have a steady dose of action and most often than not there are much less than 300 players in the split arenas. Just do the math, 200 players divided by 3 teams is only 66 players per team. If half those players are in GV's, field guns or bombers that doesn't leave many players for air combat. And that's what this is all about, isn't it?
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Or fly in an arena where folks want to fight. All it takes is like minded folks and two opposing bases.
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Two words: CASH PRIZES
now i will quietly run away......
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Would be nice to be able to donate perks to someone. If only once a month. There are many of us who never even use them.
Not a cash prize.... was just thinking out loud. :)
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I would argue that World War 2 Online has as many players online as Aces High does and it's been around for quite a while. I would also argue that World War 2 Online had way more players at some point. Planetside failed because SOE is retarded (hello SWG).
People don't take out strategic targets because it takes only a few hours of just zerging bases to win the map with the current "war." Why can't the game require one country to take a capitol before they win? Those clusters of factories/cities/capitol look awesome and I'd love to fight in/around it, but it NEVER happens. There is no war currently, it feels like a battlefield map where you take maybe two or three bases and you win (I know it's more than two or three, but not by much). This is silly especially with how easy it is to fly under radar with 20 or less people and immediately take down every spawn building before defenders can even spawn onto the runway to attempt a defense. Attack orders like in World War 2 Online would allow defenders to actually defend. I'm not going to repeat my reasoning behind it, but if you care, you can look back when I talked about it a couple pages ago. I don't know what the sequential base order thing was, but attack orders sounds different from what that was.
This is your line that caused me to start my post the way I did. I followed that up with the information that I played WWII on-line when it first started so that you could under stand why my comments where what they were. The old "Been there, did that" info.
Take out the first paragraph and your argument becomes much more solid. You constantly berate me for being young, yet you're the only one slinging insults around. I never said World War 2 Online came out first, nor did I say that it had a flawless launch. What I do know about World War 2 Online is that they have an actual persistent war with strategic targets that matter. I also know that at their peak, they had way more players than Aces High. The game you are talking about didn't really exist for very long. Comparing the old versions of both games to each other is silly. It would be like comparing Starcraft: Brood War to Warcraft II even though Starcraft II and Warcraft III are already out. It just doesn't make any sense and doesn't add anything to the discussion.
Where did I "berate" you for being young? Although, you start this post proving that you are young with one bigarnold chip on your shoulder. The point I was making, with YOUR information, is that while Aces High is still here and has grown, WWII On-line had it's hey day early, and is now slipping away. Maybe it's because of the way this game is managed, as compared to how that one is.
I remember playing old FPS games on a 56k modem. I remember playing MMORPGs where the players had to make their own content (sandbox). EVE online is still around with that model and has done nothing but grow over the years, but it doesn't have anywhere near the numbers that the major "theme park" MMOs have where a lot of the content is scripted. What I'm trying to say is that games evolve or they become extremely niche. Again, the question is do they want this game to have a small and loyal playerbase or try to attract a larger crowd?
Flight Sims have always been a niche type game, especially ones that have good flight models. The reason being is that it takes time and practice (as you are finding out) to become average, never mind elite at them. Eve, WoW, COD are all games that you can learn in an afternoon, and be good at them in a week or two. They are also games that you can be bored with in a couple months.
As for being history buffs. I'm fairly confident in my World War 2 knowledge, but that doesn't mean I want to have a full war simulation. I want the planes to behave historically, but I don't want to go on multiple hour long sorties with the possibility of not even seeing an enemy. Snapshots are available for those that do. The current bases are spaced really closely together such that you have to try really hard to fly for more than ten minutes toward an enemy base and not find an enemy. I like that, but there are times where I may want to sit back and watch the ballgame while auto climbing in a bomber and go bomb something. Adding in some real strategic targets could possibly increase the number of people flying high level bombing attacks and since they will show up on radar and have to fly way behind enemy lines, fighters would be able to intercept them. This could lead to some interesting fights to go along with the base fights. I'd also like to see some actual flak guns on the fields. The factory that produces them could make for a good strategic target. The flak would make it much harder for people to simply swarm a base. A high altitude bomber would have to take the flak out before the smaller planes could get near the field. Taking out the strategic factory could accomplish the same thing, as could ground vehicles or cruiser guns.
I wasn't picking on you directly when I said that about the player base NOT knowing WWII history. From what I've read of your post it's doesn't sound like thats the reason your here to play either. The reason I mentioned the history is that most of the older players, or those that played years ago even if they have left, played the game for the thrill of being a WWII pilot. For most of them it wasn't a game, it was an alternate reality, and alter ego. They played the "game" like they had read about WWII. They built missions, looked for enemy missions, fought tank battles on a battle field. To most it was the battle that was what they were after, winning the war was secondary. [/quote]
That brings me to my realization of the problem. My solutions may not be the best choice or the most popular but the problem remains. The problem is that currently, the best way to win the war is to take the bases as fast as possible and ignore strategic targets. The fastest way to take bases is to zerg them. It's very hard to take out all the bombers and fighter bombers using short range AA (they fire their rockets and drop their bombs before you can come close to killing them) and your own fighters. It's very very difficult to counter a horde of fighter bombers hellbent on beelining towards the base with their ords. So the problem is that to win the war, there are no other options than to take bases and taking bases is best accomplished by zerging. There needs to be more options to take bases and there needs to be more options for base defense. Cutting off supplies, large flak guns, destroying factories for said flak guns, etc.
Todays players are all about winning the war, to them it is the ONLY goal in this game, much like other games, you must battle and defeat the "boss monster" to win, how they get through that battle is unimportant. "Power-ups", "walk through guides" "hidden manna" what ever. I see it with my son all the time. He's 24 and works for a Security Software company and has been brought up on Nintendo. I think he beat Zelda before he was even in school! I've seen him go through game after game. Assassins Creed lasted 2 weeks. He beat it in 3 days, then went back and did all the "side games", and then he moved on to another game. This is the player mentality these days. Whether your young or old, if your playing Xbox, Playstation or WWii it's how your "trained". Buy the game, look up the codes, play the game, beat the game, and BUY a new game. It's how they make their money.
Aces High on the other hand isn't like that. You don't just whip through it and move on to the next one, though I'm sure the turn over is higher these days than it was 7-10 years ago. It's a fun game, and so many are looking for the "next one" because they "beat" this one by winning the war so often and they are bored. That's why you see sooooo many request for this pane and that plane (even tho they were never in the war), or this tank or that tank, or new terrains/maps. They are bored. The problem is, to play all the side game in Aces High, you have to LEARN how to really play, TRAIN and PRACTICE to get good enough to accomplish them, and that's just too much work.
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This is your line that caused me to start my post the way I did. I followed that up with the information that I played WWII on-line when it first started so that you could under stand why my comments where what they were. The old "Been there, did that" info.
Where did I "berate" you for being young? Although, you start this post proving that you are young with one bigarnold chip on your shoulder. The point I was making, with YOUR information, is that while Aces High is still here and has grown, WWII On-line had it's hey day early, and is now slipping away. Maybe it's because of the way this game is managed, as compared to how that one is.
Flight Sims have always been a niche type game, especially ones that have good flight models. The reason being is that it takes time and practice (as you are finding out) to become average, never mind elite at them. Eve, WoW, COD are all games that you can learn in an afternoon, and be good at them in a week or two. They are also games that you can be bored with in a couple months.
I wasn't picking on you directly when I said that about the player base NOT knowing WWII history. From what I've read of your post it's doesn't sound like thats the reason your here to play either. The reason I mentioned the history is that most of the older players, or those that played years ago even if they have left, played the game for the thrill of being a WWII pilot. For most of them it wasn't a game, it was an alternate reality, and alter ego. They played the "game" like they had read about WWII. They built missions, looked for enemy missions, fought tank battles on a battle field. To most it was the battle that was what they were after, winning the war was secondary.
Todays players are all about winning the war, to them it is the ONLY goal in this game, much like other games, you must battle and defeat the "boss monster" to win, how they get through that battle is unimportant. "Power-ups", "walk through guides" "hidden manna" what ever. I see it with my son all the time. He's 24 and works for a Security Software company and has been brought up on Nintendo. I think he beat Zelda before he was even in school! I've seen him go through game after game. Assassins Creed lasted 2 weeks. He beat it in 3 days, then went back and did all the "side games", and then he moved on to another game. This is the player mentality these days. Whether your young or old, if your playing Xbox, Playstation or WWii it's how your "trained". Buy the game, look up the codes, play the game, beat the game, and BUY a new game. It's how they make their money.
Aces High on the other hand isn't like that. You don't just whip through it and move on to the next one, though I'm sure the turn over is higher these days than it was 7-10 years ago. It's a fun game, and so many are looking for the "next one" because they "beat" this one by winning the war so often and they are bored. That's why you see sooooo many request for this pane and that plane (even tho they were never in the war), or this tank or that tank, or new terrains/maps. They are bored. The problem is, to play all the side game in Aces High, you have to LEARN how to really play, TRAIN and PRACTICE to get good enough to accomplish them, and that's just too much work.
spot on :aok
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Or fly in an arena where folks want to fight. All it takes is like minded folks and two opposing bases.
Clearly you do not appreciate goal-oriented strategery.
- oldman
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Clearly you do not appreciate goal-oriented strategery.
- oldman
He's from Texas, you gotta expect that :)
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Where did I "berate" you for being young? Although, you start this post proving that you are young with one bigarnold chip on your shoulder. The point I was making, with YOUR information, is that while Aces High is still here and has grown, WWII On-line had it's hey day early, and is now slipping away. Maybe it's because of the way this game is managed, as compared to how that one is.
My bad, I mistook you for someone else. As for World War 2 Online, it has as least as many players as Aces High so your point is invalid. Not only that, but your claim that Aces High has grown is completely false. I've seen numerous people say the game had way more players a long time ago. World War 2 Online had a better hayday and still has as many players as Aces High. Who knows, if this game ever had a hayday like they did, HTC might have more opportunity to expand and hire due to increased revenue.
Flight Sims have always been a niche type game, especially ones that have good flight models. The reason being is that it takes time and practice (as you are finding out) to become average, never mind elite at them. Eve, WoW, COD are all games that you can learn in an afternoon, and be good at them in a week or two. They are also games that you can be bored with in a couple months.
This game doesn't take more time and practice to become good than a FPS. To argue this point we'd have to define good, which would be completely based off personal experience. As a competitive FPS player that has played in tournaments I can say that I don't need to practice any more or less to become good at this game than any other. It's all about meticulously figuring out what to do in each situation. You may have good hand eye coordination, but that's really only half of what makes a good tournament level FPS player, the same could be said for Aces High. Knowing your plane and having good gunnery is only half the fight. We could argue this for hours, but I wouldn't say it has taken me a ton longer to become decent at this game than it did for me to become decent at a new FPS game.
I would argue that the reason you don't see boredom running rampant in flight sims is because there aren't a lot of choices. When you look at FPS there are a TON of games that you want to play and it's not that you get bored of a FPS, you just want to try another one more than you want to keep playing the same one. With Aces High, there's really nowhere else to go.
Todays players are all about winning the war, to them it is the ONLY goal in this game, much like other games, you must battle and defeat the "boss monster" to win, how they get through that battle is unimportant. "Power-ups", "walk through guides" "hidden manna" what ever. I see it with my son all the time. He's 24 and works for a Security Software company and has been brought up on Nintendo. I think he beat Zelda before he was even in school! I've seen him go through game after game. Assassins Creed lasted 2 weeks. He beat it in 3 days, then went back and did all the "side games", and then he moved on to another game. This is the player mentality these days. Whether your young or old, if your playing Xbox, Playstation or WWii it's how your "trained". Buy the game, look up the codes, play the game, beat the game, and BUY a new game. It's how they make their money.
I'm the same age as your son. I was brought up on the Atari2600, original NES, game boy, and old computer games like King's Quest and Might and Magic. Your son seems to have fallen for the console trap that destroys gamers. I haven't and many others of my generation are still PC gamers that love learning on our own and figuring things out. Portal and Portal 2 are two of my favorite games of all time. I love Dwarf Fortress and Minecraft. I love Civilization, Masters of Orion, and XCOM. I love adventure games with tons of sidequests like Chorono Trigger, Final Fantasy 7, and Final Fantasy 8. As for game guides, I'll look up a guide AFTER I've beaten a game just to see if there was anything I might have missed. Games these days aren't meant to be played multiple times. They are interactive movies for the most part. Back in the day, games like Civ, Masters of Orion, etc. could be played multiple times because the experience was never the same. With games like Assassin's Creed, the cutscenes are the same, the boss fights are the same, etc. Consoles have dumbed down gaming in general, but PC games are still around that aren't mindless interactive movies.
Sure, most gamers these days are mindless console sheep, but they wouldn't be interested in flight sims anyways (except for games like Battlefield, HAWX, and Crimson Skies). There are still younger gamers that like challenges and figuring things out. Most younger gamers are hyper competitive, so when you dangle a carrot out there that you can WIN the war, they're going to do whatever they can to win it. For some, this is how they compete, by winning the war. For others they win by being a really good dogfighter and winning dogfights. Others may win by being really good tankers. Others may be really good bombers. The problem currently is that it seems that most players measure winning by winning the map and the current system for winning the map really dumbs down the gameplay. Regardless of what you think should be the goal of players, the goal right now is winning the war and the game should cater to making winning the war a fun thing instead of trying to get players to have a different goal than winning the war.
You're probably right in that immersion is less of a factor now than it was a while ago. I can't say for sure about back then, but I know it's not a huge factor now. There are snapshots for people that really want that though. You can still make missions and fly "realistically" if you really want to.
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My bad, I mistook you for someone else. As for World War 2 Online, it has as least as many players as Aces High so your point is invalid. Not only that, but your claim that Aces High has grown is completely false. I've seen numerous people say the game had way more players a long time ago. World War 2 Online had a better hayday and still has as many players as Aces High. Who knows, if this game ever had a hayday like they did, HTC might have more opportunity to expand and hire due to increased revenue.
This game doesn't take more time and practice to become good than a FPS. To argue this point we'd have to define good, which would be completely based off personal experience. As a competitive FPS player that has played in tournaments I can say that I don't need to practice any more or less to become good at this game than any other. It's all about meticulously figuring out what to do in each situation. You may have good hand eye coordination, but that's really only half of what makes a good tournament level FPS player, the same could be said for Aces High. Knowing your plane and having good gunnery is only half the fight. We could argue this for hours, but I wouldn't say it has taken me a ton longer to become decent at this game than it did for me to become decent at a new FPS game.
Spoken like a true gamer. I've never fought you I don't think, but I have watched every film you posted, and I can tell you that you still have a LOT to learn, and that's just the flying a fighter part. Like I said before, there are many "side games" to play here, and all take learning.
I would argue that the reason you don't see boredom running rampant in flight sims is because there aren't a lot of choices. When you look at FPS there are a TON of games that you want to play and it's not that you get bored of a FPS, you just want to try another one more than you want to keep playing the same one. With Aces High, there's really nowhere else to go.
There is a lot of boredom here, look at all of the complaints on how the game should be fixed. All of those "complaners" are bored. I'm guilty of it too, I'm bored with fighting the horde and the HOers, I want to see some fights!
I'm the same age as your son. I was brought up on the Atari2600, original NES, game boy, and old computer games like King's Quest and Might and Magic. Your son seems to have fallen for the console trap that destroys gamers. I haven't and many others of my generation are still PC gamers that love learning on our own and figuring things out. Portal and Portal 2 are two of my favorite games of all time. I love Dwarf Fortress and Minecraft. I love Civilization, Masters of Orion, and XCOM. I love adventure games with tons of sidequests like Chorono Trigger, Final Fantasy 7, and Final Fantasy 8. As for game guides, I'll look up a guide AFTER I've beaten a game just to see if there was anything I might have missed. Games these days aren't meant to be played multiple times. They are interactive movies for the most part. Back in the day, games like Civ, Masters of Orion, etc. could be played multiple times because the experience was never the same. With games like Assassin's Creed, the cutscenes are the same, the boss fights are the same, etc. Consoles have dumbed down gaming in general, but PC games are still around that aren't mindless interactive movies.
LOL!!! you couldn't be more wrong about my son, he's a gamer PERIOD! I'd post a picture of his room but his mother would kill me (she didn't bring him up to be THAT messy! :P ) He has the 3 big game systems, he just got the new 3d handheld, and he has a computer that anyone in this game would give his left nut for. Whether it's on the computer, or a game system, or on the small hand helds he's a gamer. It doesn't hurt to work in computers be single and make crap loads of money. He shelves use to be loaded with trophy's as well. He's actually working on breaking a record for a complete start to finish of a game (record is 2 hours and a few minutes, he's sure he can get it done in under an hour :rolleyes: )
The point is gamers, like yourself and a very big percentage of the players today look at games a different way because that is all they know. You think you'll come in and in a couple of weeks be a top dog here, it's how a gamer thinks. A flight simmer looks at a game much different. They will spends hours upon hours reading about flight, and learn all the how's and why's of it. They will read all the info at the site, on forums, and watch films, before they even load up the game. Gamers on the other hand just dive in, "learn as they go" type of play. In this type of game, your not going to learn a lot while you play.
You're probably right in that immersion is less of a factor now than it was a while ago. I can't say for sure about back then, but I know it's not a huge factor now. There are snapshots for people that really want that though. You can still make missions and fly "realistically" if you really want to.
Again, spoken like a true gamer. The immersion is what makes the game. If the "cut shots in Final Fantasy sucked, and the characters move stiffly, and the weapon animations was more like stop action how fun would the game be? Todays players are blowing by all the important parts of this game just for the sake of "winning the war" . You might as well turn off all the animations, back down the color on your TV and plug in all the "modes" they have and play your favorite console/computer game.
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When I said people weren't bored of flight sims, I meant to say that they aren't leaving to go to other games due to the boredom as you were equating boredom in other games to people leaving them.
I think you missed the point of the whole gamer thing. You were saying that my generation only cares about beating games ASAP and plays a ton of games. I was stating and giving examples of the opposite. Not only that, but you contradict yourself because your son is trying to speed run games and has tons of consoles and games to play, yet you call him a "true gamer." I would call that a console gamer, not a "true gamer." Immersion is important up to a certain point. The planes have to feel real, they have to look real, and they have to fly realistically. You don't see yourself having to sharpen your sword after every fight in assassin's creed or final fantasy. You don't have to wait 8+ hours every time you rest in a video game. You don't have to spend 30+ minutes eating food to replenish your health. Now this might seem blatantly obvious and stupid to say, but you can equate things like that to flight sims. Most people don't want to spend hours in a bomber before they reach their target, nor do they want to drive their tanks for hours before they see any enemies. It's a game, sacrifices need to be made so that it is fun. If people really want to spend all that time and fly realistically, they can. The game doesn't keep people from doing that, but it doesn't force it either.
As for my personal skill level, I'd bet I could give even the top players a good fight. I probably wouldn't win 9 times out of 10, but I'd still give them a good fight. This goes back to our definition of good though. I consider myself good at this game now, but you might only consider good meaning I can kill anyone at any time. I would consider that elite. Your definition of good in a FPS might be my definition of below average. It's all relative. I consider myself good because of the fact that I can give the best players a good fight and can constantly land 2-5 kill missions.
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Two words: CASH PRIZES
now i will quietly run away......
LOL! That was already tried and all that did was promote timid flying and score whoring. It was the #1 crappiest idea ever to come out of Grapevine and unfortunately, we're still experiencing its lasting effects.
ack-ack
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As for my personal skill level, I'd bet I could give even the top players a good fight. I probably wouldn't win 9 times out of 10, but I'd still give them a good fight. This goes back to our definition of good though. I consider myself good at this game now, but you might only consider good meaning I can kill anyone at any time. I would consider that elite. Your definition of good in a FPS might be my definition of below average. It's all relative. I consider myself good because of the fact that I can give the best players a good fight and can constantly land 2-5 kill missions.
Are you Hoff in game? If so, while stats don't tell the whole story, they can give one some indications. Your stats, errr, ummmm, well... belie the above statements. You haven't even reached a sustainable 1:1 k/d. :noid
But if you see me one (I can often be found in the AvA), drop me a PM and I'll take you to the DA and put you through a variety of situations and give you an honest assessment of your flying skills. :joystick:
While I'm far from being the best (stats-wise, anyway), I'm not too shabby, either. :old:
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Are you Hoff in game? If so, while stats don't tell the whole story, they can give one some indications. Your stats, errr, ummmm, well... belie the above statements. You haven't even reached a sustainable 1:1 k/d. :noid
But if you see me one (I can often be found in the AvA), drop me a PM and I'll take you to the DA and put you through a variety of situations and give you an honest assessment of your flying skills. :joystick:
While I'm far from being the best (stats-wise, anyway), I'm not too shabby, either. :old:
No thanks. First of all, I'm not a stat ho, so I will up from a vulched field 20 times in a row to get just 1 kill or make people waste their ammo/auger. I don't run from fights often and I'll fight someone that has more E than me (I'm not a runstang). For the way that I fly, I feel that I do really well. In fact, my K/D for my primary fighter, the 109k, is nearly identical to your K/D in yours, the la7. Overall K/D is pretty pointless, I up B25Hs and 110g2s with the extra 20mms and WGRs for fun all the time. Not only that, but in the 109k I up on vulched fields a lot as well, so the stats are pretty much useless.
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I would argue that World War 2 Online has as many players online as Aces High does and it's been around for quite a while.
No, Aces High on average manages to have more players online playing daily than WW2OL does.
I would also argue that World War 2 Online had way more players at some point.
You would have been correct at launch, the hype behind WW2OL up to launch was huge and it did gain it a lot of box sales as a result. However, after what is considered to be one of the worst launches for any MMO, the numbers started to decline and has never recovered or come close to any of their expectations.
Planetside failed because SOE is retarded (hello SWG
Actually Planetside is not a failure and continues to generate revenue for SOE even with its very small, dedicated community. If Planetside was a failure, SOE would have never invested the time and resources to develop Planetside Next. Oh, on a side note...the disaster that was SWG lies firmly at the feet of LucasArts, they were the ones that called all the shots in the development of SWG. Nothing could be done without their approval or direction...Combat Upgrade was LucasArt's idea...NGE was also LA's idea in an attempt to compete with WoW.
ack-ack
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.... I consider myself good because of the fact that I can give the best players a good fight and can constantly land 2-5 kill missions.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
wanna put that to the test....I know guys that will kill you 100% of the time..now or two years from now,if you played constantly....hell I am not a very good shot so for me to say lets go DA....well Ill miss my first shot... but I will bet I'll get first shot every time :aok
you have a long way to go before you'll give the really good players a hard fight...the elite players.... :rofl
:rofl
you have 41 kills not counted to rank....this tells me one thing...you fly all around green guys all the time, period
and still cant maintain a K/D of 1...digging even deeper.....the majority of your rides are BnZ specialists or HO specialist......
if you constantly landed 2 - 5 kill missions it would show in your score it shows you average 3/4 of a kill every sortie
I change my mind I would take ya to the DA and school ya some if you would like :aok
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No, Aces High on average manages to have more players online playing daily than WW2OL does.
You would have been correct at launch, the hype behind WW2OL up to launch was huge and it did gain it a lot of box sales as a result. However, after what is considered to be one of the worst launches for any MMO, the numbers started to decline and has never recovered or come close to any of their expectations.
Actually Planetside is not a failure and continues to generate revenue for SOE even with its very small, dedicated community. If Planetside was a failure, SOE would have never invested the time and resources to develop Planetside Next. Oh, on a side note...the disaster that was SWG lies firmly at the feet of LucasArts, they were the ones that called all the shots in the development of SWG. Nothing could be done without their approval or direction...Combat Upgrade was LucasArt's idea...NGE was also LA's idea in an attempt to compete with WoW.
ack-ack
Planetside had a ton of players back in the day, then SOE, in a genius move, added BFRs. So yes, it is a failure in the sense that it could still be a pretty big MMO.
You're right about LA, I forget the guy's name, I think it was Torres, but he was the main culprit behind the NGE for LA's part. The fact that Smedly and most of the SOE team didn't speak up about it at all and tried to defend it placed part of the blame in SOE's hands. Plus, it was branded as a SOE game, regardless of who was running it, the SOE brand was at stake and it seemed that SOE didn't care about that at all. It's similar to what happened to Episodes 1-3 of the Star Wars triliogy. Nobody had the balls or cared enough to speak up and tell George he was wrong. If you haven't seen RedLetterMedia's review of the first three movies and have a few hours to spare, it's well worth it, I promise.
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When I said people weren't bored of flight sims, I meant to say that they aren't leaving to go to other games due to the boredom as you were equating boredom in other games to people leaving them.
I think you missed the point of the whole gamer thing. You were saying that my generation only cares about beating games ASAP and plays a ton of games. I was stating and giving examples of the opposite. Not only that, but you contradict yourself because your son is trying to speed run games and has tons of consoles and games to play, yet you call him a "true gamer." I would call that a console gamer, not a "true gamer." Immersion is important up to a certain point. The planes have to feel real, they have to look real, and they have to fly realistically. You don't see yourself having to sharpen your sword after every fight in assassin's creed or final fantasy. You don't have to wait 8+ hours every time you rest in a video game. You don't have to spend 30+ minutes eating food to replenish your health. Now this might seem blatantly obvious and stupid to say, but you can equate things like that to flight sims. Most people don't want to spend hours in a bomber before they reach their target, nor do they want to drive their tanks for hours before they see any enemies. It's a game, sacrifices need to be made so that it is fun. If people really want to spend all that time and fly realistically, they can. The game doesn't keep people from doing that, but it doesn't force it either.
As for my personal skill level, I'd bet I could give even the top players a good fight. I probably wouldn't win 9 times out of 10, but I'd still give them a good fight. This goes back to our definition of good though. I consider myself good at this game now, but you might only consider good meaning I can kill anyone at any time. I would consider that elite. Your definition of good in a FPS might be my definition of below average. It's all relative. I consider myself good because of the fact that I can give the best players a good fight and can constantly land 2-5 kill missions.
OK Mr nitpick, a gamer is a gamer whether its a console gamer or a "true gamer". On the other hand a "Flight simmer" is a whole different animal. A flight simmer WILL fly for hours to make a buff run AND fly hours BACK to land it. Why do you think drop tanks are available? Because simmers fly for hours.
Gamers grab the fastest plane with the biggest guns get 2-3k in alt come screaming in and lawndart trying to take out the radar tower. Then they will do it 5 more times....or how ever many trips it takes to take out the radar. A simmer will KNOW what it takes, get a reasonable altitude, plan his attack run so he is over the base and in ack range the least amount of time, plan his exit vector to avoid ack and regain his alt. In most cases he will take out the radar in one pass. That's the difference between a gamer and a simmer.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
wanna put that to the test....I know guys that will kill you 100% of the time..now or two years from now,if you played constantly....hell I am not a very good shot so for me to say lets go DA....well Ill miss my first shot... but I will bet I'll get first shot every time :aok
you have a long way to go before you'll give the really good players a hard fight...the elite players.... :rofl
I'd happily do that. 100% is a pretty ballsy thing to throw out, two years is even ballsier. I wouldn't be surprised to lose 20-50 times in a row, but I would be very surprised to lose 100/100 duels.
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OK Mr nitpick, a gamer is a gamer whether its a console gamer or a "true gamer". On the other hand a "Flight simmer" is a whole different animal. A flight simmer WILL fly for hours to make a buff run AND fly hours BACK to land it. Why do you think drop tanks are available? Because simmers fly for hours.
Gamers grab the fastest plane with the biggest guns get 2-3k in alt come screaming in and lawndart trying to take out the radar tower. Then they will do it 5 more times....or how ever many trips it takes to take out the radar. A simmer will KNOW what it takes, get a reasonable altitude, plan his attack run so he is over the base and in ack range the least amount of time, plan his exit vector to avoid ack and regain his alt. In most cases he will take out the radar in one pass. That's the difference between a gamer and a simmer.
So that I can enter the fight with 50% fuel, but be able to fly further to get to the fight if I have to :D. In all seriousness, we're just arguing semantics. I believe that someone can be a "flight simmer" and not want to have to fly two hours in a B-29 to get altitude and get to the target.
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What he said^ I'm totally bored of long boring flights and tank drives.
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I'd happily do that. 100% is a pretty ballsy thing to throw out, two years is even ballsier. I wouldn't be surprised to lose 20-50 times in a row, but I would be very surprised to lose 100/100 duels.
I would be surprised if you could even put rounds NEAR the Elite guys in this game :aok
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I would be surprised if you could even put rounds NEAR the Elite guys in this game :aok
Whose elite :old:
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LOL here we go again.
I don't believe he was talking about you ACE :)
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Whose elite :old:
not you :aok
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http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/difficulties/whoswhose.html
Just saying.
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http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/difficulties/whoswhose.html
Just saying.
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/fragments.htm
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http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/fragments.htm
That's funny, because my comment wasn't directed towards you, and you're telling me a purposely used sentence fragment is worse than a misused word?
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not you :aok
Good call and true.
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Whose elite :old:
I don't believe he was talking about you ACE :)
not you :aok
(http://www.primotees.com/men/catalogimages/oh_snap.jpg)
ack-ack
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INK since you like thumbs up is this a picture good:
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/jojopowers21/top-gun-maverick.jpg)
Or this:
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/jojopowers21/maverick-1.jpg)
2nd one not reallly a thumbs up I just figured it would "get you going"
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:rofl
there is nothing you can do to get me "going" :aok
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I figured the sweat rolling down the pecs would. :airplane:
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I figured the sweat rolling down the pecs would. :airplane:
maybe your into guys and that's all good, but my lovely wife of 18 years, gets me going a lot more then any guy could. :aok
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Well no guys for me and no GF single man right now :cheers:
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That's funny, because my comment wasn't directed towards you, and you're telling me a purposely used sentence fragment is worse than a misused word?
he could be looking for a spot with the fe... err 'the many'....
Well no guys for me and no GF single man right now :cheers:
What happened to your sig?
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he could be looking for a spot with the fe... err 'the many'....
What happened to your sig?
What happend to the Ardy everybody used to know?
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What happend to the Ardy everybody used to know?
I'm the same, but the whole Dueling bracket debacle changed my perception.
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:rofl
The few do have a weird obsession with the volleyball scene from top gun.
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Well when I first me you, you were really cool down to earth soon as you leave pigs and join muppets you got an ego and just act differnt
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Well when I first me you, you were really cool down to earth soon as you leave pigs and join muppets you got an ego and just act differnt
If you knew why he.. 'we' left, you'd understand why.
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Well when I first me you, you were really cool down to earth soon as you leave pigs and join muppets you got an ego and just act differnt
Are there enough players?
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Well when I first me you, you were really cool down to earth soon as you leave pigs and join muppets you got an ego and just act differnt
I felt the same about the few, until what happened, and then heard what you guys did at koth, etc....
you can't expect to act a certain way and think others arn't going to respond negatively to it.
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:rofl
The few do have a weird obsession with the volleyball scene from top gun.
AHEM! You can leave leave me out of that blatant generalisation. :furious
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I felt the same about the few, until what happened, and then heard what you guys did at koth, etc....
you can't expect to act a certain way, try to hide it, and think others arn't going to respond negatively to it.
Fixed :aok
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Why would you bring KOTH up when nothing happend?
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Why would you bring KOTH up when nothing happend?
:rofl
:aok :aok :aok :aok
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Why would you bring KOTH up when nothing happend?
even i heard about that one...
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Other than Bruv winning it twice and Kazaa once? I mean are you guys trying to argue TOC wins or KOTH?
I mean we all shaw Kazaas photoshop of your COs plaque didn't we? I thought that was enough.
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Other than Bruv winning it twice and Kazaa once? I mean are you guys trying to argue TOC wins or KOTH?
I mean we all shaw Kazaas photoshop of your COs plaque didn't we? I thought that was enough.
not arguing. just pointing out that i had heard the story also about the Few and KOTH etc. <S>
Personally don't care. others apparently do though :headscratch:
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So Bipolar and TwinTail joined, left, and lied about what they saw/heard for no reason?
Hey bar <S>
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What happend to the Ardy everybody used to know?
Here is how you properly derail a thread.
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2815/racistbabynewsweekcoverl.jpg)
ack-ack
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We have our opions about bip as to why he joined our squad won't make it public cause I'm not that low of a person. Twintail wasn't even in our squad around TOC was he? He's prolly a little upset with us since we didn't fly two sectors out of our way to clear is six for his fighter rank.
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So Bipolar and TwinTail joined, left, and lied about what they saw/heard for no reason?
Hey bar <S>
hey krup <S> bud. What i love though is that squadron drama has gotten so bad between certain groups that rumors begin to spread. and one of the stories i had heard did not come from either of them though and i know that it does not include into this intersquadron drama. If it's true then whatever. if not then whatever. simple. end of discussion
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That's funny, because my comment wasn't directed towards you, and you're telling me a purposely used sentence fragment is worse than a misused word?
I never said it was worse. I was just making fun of you for correcting someone's grammar when you used a sentence fragment. Correcting grammar on the internet is silly anyways. Everyone knew what he meant to say, just ignore it.
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We have our opions about bip as to why he joined our squad won't make it public cause I'm not that low of a person. Twintail wasn't even in our squad around TOC was he? He's prolly a little upset with us since we didn't fly two sectors out of our way to clear is six for his fighter rank.
That still doesn't answer my question.
It's far beyond a rumor, Bar.
I love you Hoff. <3
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That still doesn't answer my question.
It's far beyond a rumor, Bar.
I love you Hoff. <3
PM sent. If that is the one you had heard let me know...
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There are enough players.
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That still doesn't answer my question.
It's far beyond a rumor, Bar.
I love you Hoff. <3
What did we lie about? Fill me in cause I don't seem to be on the same page as you?
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What did we lie about? Fill me in cause I don't seem to be on the same page as you?
I think Ardy and Bar answered that for you.
G'Night
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There are enough players.
And I quote :)
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What did we lie about? Fill me in cause I don't seem to be on the same page as you?
I think Ardy and Bar answered that for you.
G'Night
i honestly dont know if he knows the story...
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Whose elite :old:
MANaWAR of course..he has the biggest kill club in the game.
:noid
I rate myself somewhere between awful and terrible.
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(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Bail.jpg)
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Where'd you find that picture of me falling along with the wreckage of a 25C? :)
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Where'd you find that picture of me falling along with the wreckage of a 25C? :)
Naa that's me giving skydiving a go. I wasn't willing to jump out of a perfectly good airplane though.
Here's one of you. Hoing, like an animal.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Corky_vs_262.jpg)
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:salute Hoff,
No matter what others think of your opinions, after following your comments for several days, I have to give you a great deal of respect for having the conviction to stand your opinions, state them in an articulate manner and remain calm in the face of continued criticism.
If, in fact, you are young you will go far in this world and the game needs more young people like you.
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No thanks. First of all, I'm not a stat ho, so I will up from a vulched field 20 times in a row to get just 1 kill or make people waste their ammo/auger. I don't run from fights often and I'll fight someone that has more E than me (I'm not a runstang). For the way that I fly, I feel that I do really well. In fact, my K/D for my primary fighter, the 109k, is nearly identical to your K/D in yours, the la7. Overall K/D is pretty pointless, I up B25Hs and 110g2s with the extra 20mms and WGRs for fun all the time. Not only that, but in the 109k I up on vulched fields a lot as well, so the stats are pretty much useless.
Uhhh, you don't want to take the oppt'y to learn something in the da? If you overlooked it, I said "a variety of setups" and to expland on that, I mean giving you alt, giving myself alt, same plane, diff planes (altho your planeset is much more limited than mine, but that's only because you're still new and learning, right?) :x
As I mentioned stats only give an indication and are not the end-all in telling the story, hence the offer of da time to provide you with an evaluation, again, under a variety of situations as you would find in the MA - bring a buddy and we can do it 1 v 2 , 2 v 1 as well. :joystick:
If you ever change your mind... I'm merely a pm away. :aok
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Well when I first me you, you were really cool down to earth soon as you leave pigs and join muppets you got an ego and just act differnt
If you watch people close enough, you can see those egos festering LONNNNNNNG before it comes out!
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If you watch people close enough, you can see those egos festering LONNNNNNNG before it comes out!
lol says the guy who blew his lid because akak told him to ask me to show them how to fly a 109.... Muzik, I'm sorry that was so insulting to you.
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We have our opions about bip as to why he joined our squad won't make it public cause I'm not that low of a person. Twintail wasn't even in our squad around TOC was he? He's prolly a little upset with us since we didn't fly two sectors out of our way to clear is six for his fighter rank.
dont lie son, speak the truth or dont speak at all. And i really dont think daddy bruv would want you posting in such a thread. Might want to back yourself out of this one before you hurt yourself.
Why I joined your squad? Really? Please do make it public. Show me why I joined. Then show everyone why I left or I can. The choice is yours. either shhhh or lets "show" things.
EDIT: I will say this. There are some really good guys in the few. 95% of them are stand up honest guys. Too bad there are 2 or 3 in there that make the few look bad. It is a shame. I have nothing but respect for the few except those couple of bad seeds.
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EDIT: I will say this. There are some really good guys in the few. 95% of them are stand up honest guys. Too bad there are 2 or 3 in there that make the few look bad. It is a shame. I have nothing but respect for the few except those couple of bad seeds.
I have to agree there, Pervert & nrhsida to name a few are top notch people....
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I have to agree there, Pervert & nrhsida to name a few are top notch people....
I don't know about that :D
Should we sometimes attempt to elevate these exchanges above the level of the school yard. In every group of people there are people we as individuals will get on with better with and approve of more than others and this is something of a constant in any group.
Some are more mature than others, some are calmer some are hot heads some are secure others are easily upsett and many are damaged goods but nearly everyone seems to have their heart in the right place. Holmes posted in squads to the effect people should stop hi jacking threads with this stuff and I think he is right and its time to move on.
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Should we sometimes attempt to elevate these exchanges above the level of the school yard.
:headscratch: you've forgotten where you are again gramps, this is forum Sparta
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:headscratch: you've forgotten where you are again gramps, this is forum Sparta
Thanks for your pointless in-joke interjection off topic which added nothing.
Reaches for the ignore button :D
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Uhhh, you don't want to take the oppt'y to learn something in the da? If you overlooked it, I said "a variety of setups" and to expland on that, I mean giving you alt, giving myself alt, same plane, diff planes (altho your planeset is much more limited than mine, but that's only because you're still new and learning, right?) :x
As I mentioned stats only give an indication and are not the end-all in telling the story, hence the offer of da time to provide you with an evaluation, again, under a variety of situations as you would find in the MA - bring a buddy and we can do it 1 v 2 , 2 v 1 as well. :joystick:
If you ever change your mind... I'm merely a pm away. :aok
Me and you Hoff, VS. Shane and whatever half blind, one arm, no legged wingthing he brings.
We got our work cut out for us, but it'll be worth it...
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Thanks for your pointless in-joke interjection off topic which added nothing.
Reaches for the ignore button :D
Not pointless! Just reminding you not to expect anything beyond the level of the schoolyard...especially not from me :devil
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Not pointless! Just reminding you not to expect anything beyond the level of the schoolyard...especially not from me :devil
:lol
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dont lie son, speak the truth or dont speak at all. And i really dont think daddy bruv would want you posting in such a thread. Might want to back yourself out of this one before you hurt yourself.
Why I joined your squad? Really? Please do make it public. Show me why I joined. Then show everyone why I left or I can. The choice is yours. either shhhh or lets "show" things.
EDIT: I will say this. There are some really good guys in the few. 95% of them are stand up honest guys. Too bad there are 2 or 3 in there that make the few look bad. It is a shame. I have nothing but respect for the few except those couple of bad seeds.
I'm going to skip the whole high school musical argument between Spek, Krup and Ardy. Time to get right down to business, man to man.
Bipolar, I've given you a free pass to blow off steam towards members of The Few as I know life has been very terrible for you recently. For those of the community who didn't know, Bipolar confided in me during his time of turmoil. Even players from The Few pitched in to pay for Bip's subscription, giving him something to occupy his mind with during a time when he couldn't afford to pay for one by himself. But enough is enough, you've forced my hand.
I know for a fact that you recorded our last Ventrilo conversation as you tried to blackmail me five minutes before Tournament of Champions stared with the knowledge you had obtained. I'm pretty sure the community will be disgusted when they hear me say "I will ban any member which I catch cheating in KoTH from taking part in ToC". By all means show the community why you left, it will then give me the right to show the community why we don't care that you left or even why we put up with you in the first place. You do realise that every transmit you made over Ventrilo was recorded? Ask yourself this question: Did you ever say something that you wouldn't want the community knowing, especially members of the Muppets? Shove all-in with your top pair, top kicker; I'm sitting here waiting to call with a royal flush, baby.
The next move is yours, I sure as hell can't wait for my PNG, can you?
P.S: Don't worry Muppets, I will not post any transcripts that would drag your name or any member other than Bipolar through the mud. Even I know where to draw the line...
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So Bipolar and TwinTail joined, left, and lied about what they saw/heard for no reason?
Hey bar <S>
Because TT accused The Few of being stat padders who fly nothing but perk rides; shortly later he was caught shade killing in his 262. :lol
Don't get me started on Bipolar...
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I either turned off ventrillo when BiP was on, or just logged. Hell, I left the few, for a few, because of him. I can elaborate as to why, but we shall see. Some folks should just lurk in the shadows where they belong, instead of standing in the light were they can be seen for what they are.
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Yes, there are enough players. The spawn camping the knits had rockin' last night, was epic. There were at least seven tanks, 2 IL2s, and plenty of fighter cover, watching a single spawn. Was a blast as well <S> all you spawn camping turkeys. The planes are what drove me away....
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Very Lucky :bhead
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Clearly you do not appreciate goal-oriented strategery.
- oldman
I support it whole heartedly. My goal oriented strategy is to find a fight and participate.
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:bhead
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Dog has been called off sorry Gents
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You do realise that every transmit you made over Ventrilo was recorded?
And why would you do that? Seems a bit distrusting, underhanded, cheesy, pick a word but it just doesn't seem right. It seems to me the only reason you'd do that is to use it against someone in the future.
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And why would you do that? Seems a bit distrusting, underhanded, cheesy, pick a word but it just doesn't seem right. It seems to me the only reason you'd do that is to use it against someone in the future.
We had our reasons.He wanted this public so now it is :salute
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I'm going to skip the whole high school musical argument between Spek, Krup and Ardy. Time to get right down to business, man to man.
Bipolar, I've given you a free pass to blow off steam towards members of The Few as I know life has been very terrible for you recently. For those of the community who didn't know, Bipolar confided in me during his time of turmoil. Even players from The Few pitched in to pay for Bip's subscription, giving him something to occupy his mind with during a time when he couldn't afford to pay for one by himself. But enough is enough, you've forced my hand.
I know for a fact that you recorded our last Ventrilo conversation as you tried to blackmail me five minutes before Tournament of Champions stared with the knowledge you had obtained. I'm pretty sure the community will be disgusted when they hear me say "I will ban any member which I catch cheating in KoTH from taking part in ToC". By all means show the community why you left, it will then give me the right to show the community why we don't care that you left or even why we put up with you in the first place. You do realise that every transmit you made over Ventrilo was recorded? Ask yourself this question: Did you ever say something that you wouldn't want the community knowing, especially members of the Muppets? Shove all-in with your top pair, top kicker; I'm sitting here waiting to call with a royal flush, baby.
The next move is yours, I sure as hell can't wait for my PNG, can you?
P.S: Don't worry Muppets, I will not post any transcripts that would drag your name or any member other than Bipolar through the mud. Even I know where to draw the line...
E-Gad!
When is Spek's term as Few Public Relations Officer up? Hopefully soon for your guys sake. :lol
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And why would you do that? Seems a bit distrusting, underhanded, cheesy, pick a word but it just doesn't seem right. It seems to me the only reason you'd do that is to use it against someone in the future.
Trust me, I had my reasons. It's not like I go around recording everyone out of pure paranoia. Bip was the first and hopefully the last.
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Dog has been called off sorry Gents
:rofl :rofl
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lol says the guy who blew his lid because akak told him to ask me to show them how to fly a 109.... Muzik, I'm sorry that was so insulting to you.
Once again, I didnt blow my lid because of anything smakak said. I have a whole library of films that say otherwise, that's good enough for me. It was the back stabbing ego that peeved me for the night. And obviously that ego is still making impressions on people.
You better check yourself son! Notice how much you enjoy repeating the 109 dribble out loud for the ego boost you like to give yourself. How many times have you repeated that now?
Notice how you frequently accuse others of "immaturity" when a pissing match comes up on these forums, and then there you are right in the middle of it all. Your holier than thou ego is good fodder for me.
Im 41 years old, so you can repeat that 109 dribble until your blue in the face and it still wont mean a thing to me. All I see is a little kid screaming "look at me."
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And why would you do that? Seems a bit distrusting, underhanded, cheesy, pick a word but it just doesn't seem right. It seems to me the only reason you'd do that is to use it against someone in the future.
Ditto Bald. Note to self: Do not join the Few on ventrillo. :uhoh
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Once again, I didnt blow my lid because of anything smakak said. I have a whole library of films that say otherwise, that's good enough for me. It was the back stabbing ego that peeved me for the night. And obviously that ego is still making impressions on people.
You better check yourself son! Notice how much you enjoy repeating the 109 dribble out loud for the ego boost you like to give yourself. How many times have you repeated that now?
Notice how you frequently accuse others of "immaturity" when a pissing match comes up on these forums, and then there you are right in the middle of it all. Your holier than thou ego is good fodder for me.
Im 41 years old, so you can repeat that 109 dribble until your blue in the face and it still wont mean a thing to me. All I see is a little kid screaming "look at me."
so your the 40+ holding a grudge over a video game, trying to interject insults in someone else's BBS fight, now thats pathetic :aok
send me all the films, I want to see them...
BTW, I bet akak is laughing his a$s off at you because the drama he caused...
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Ditto Bald. Note to self: Do not join the Few on ventrillo. :uhoh
It's not so bad... just erm... ask them to keep the tapes away from any government departments
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The few sounds greeeeat. Recording each others ventrilo sessions, blackmail, extortion, dogs being called off. Got to make sure your back is covered in that squad. :rofl :rofl
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The few sounds greeeeat. Recording each others ventrilo sessions, blackmail, extortion, dogs being called off. Got to make sure your back is covered in that squad. :rofl :rofl
:rofl :aok
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The few sounds greeeeat. Recording each others ventrilo sessions, blackmail, extortion, dogs being called off. Got to make sure your back is covered in that squad. :rofl :rofl
The Few StormTroopers are really nice chaps, and The Few Gestapo are even nicer, they offered me tea and a biscuit.
And in no way was there a mauser pistol placed by the side of my head as I typed this. :noid
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The Few StormTroopers are really nice chaps, and The Few Gestapo are even nicer, they offered me tea and a biscuit.
And in no way was there a mauser pistol placed by the side of my head as I typed this. :noid
Zis vee told ju noot to disucssss. Puuf.
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so your the 40+ holding a grudge over a video game, trying to interject insults in someone else's BBS fight, now thats pathetic :aok
send me all the films, I want to see them...
BTW, I bet akak is laughing his a$s off at you because the drama he caused...
I have no grudge! I was affirming someone else, I wasn't talking to you. If you took that as an insult then maybe you should consider that it's not a coincidence that more than one person sees your passive aggressive lil ego. And grow up, I could care less what he laughs at.
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I have no grudge! I was affirming someone else, I wasn't talking to you. If you took that as an insult then maybe you should consider that it's not a coincidence that more than one person sees your passive aggressive lil ego. And grow up, I could care less what he laughs at.
Your own post contradicts itself, if you held no grudge you wouldn't have said anything. You are clearly upset and Akak is enjoying the drama he created, at your emotional expense.
EDIT: If you want to talk about it Musik, PM me, I'm not upset. If you just want to hide and attempt to poke insults at me behind other arguments that your not apart of... cheers
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Your own post contradicts itself, if you held no grudge you wouldn't have said anything. You are clearly upset and Akak is enjoying the drama he created, at your emotional expense.
EDIT: If you want to talk about it Musik, PM me, I'm not upset. If you just want to hide and attempt to poke insults at me behind other arguments that your not apart of... cheers
Only brits can say cheers :banana:
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Only brits can say cheers :banana:
Well no guys for me and no GF single man right now :cheers:
:rofl :rofl ahh I see... how could I forget, how is spring break on the east coast of the USA today Spek?
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recording vent thats outrageous!
just imagine if AH's film recorder also recorded vox, I mean there would be potentially incriminating audio recordings on everyones hard drives! just as well it doesnt eh?
(btw Im hinting that you guys are idiots)
someone remind me what the last couple of pages have to do with overall player numbers and its effect on gameplay? :headscratch:
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:rofl :rofl ahh I see... how could I forget, how is spring break on the east coast of the USA today Spek?
Got off of it like 2 weeks ago.
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(btw Im hinting that you guys are idiots)
You have to be more specific otherwise when it get to court it will be inadmissable ;)
My view is if someone has actual evideince someone cheated in Koth ffs send it to fuze otherwise leave it alone unless this is just peoples idea of fun in which case sorry I don't get it but by all means carry on if you are having a good time.
As to the OP it would surely never have run this long without the drama so is it now a moot point RT.
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Trust me, I had my reasons. It's not like I go around recording everyone out of pure paranoia. Bip was the first and hopefully the last.
Yeah, probably just like the college kid who filmed his roomate having gay sex and posted it on the Internet only to have the roomate kill himself. Good work.
And I noticed you said "hopefully" meaning you're leaving the door open to doing the same again to someone else. I'm not sure how anyone could trust you. I know I wouldn't.
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Yeah, probably just like the college kid who filmed his roomate having gay sex and posted it on the Internet only to have the roomate kill himself. Good work.
And I noticed you said "hopefully" meaning you're leaving the door open to doing the same again to someone else. I'm not sure how anyone could trust you. I know I wouldn't.
to record or not to record that is the question. :bolt:
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Yeah, probably just like the college kid who filmed his roomate having gay sex and posted it on the Internet only to have the roomate kill himself. Good work.
Yes this is "just like" it... :bhead
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Yes this is "just like" it... :bhead
:rofl
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E-Gad!
When is Spek's term as Few Public Relations Officer up? Hopefully soon for your guys sake. :lol
will sunbat like to come over for a short term aswell? He is more than welcome too, hopefully he can train some of the other guys to look cooler on the BBS. :aok
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recording vent thats outrageous!
just imagine if AH's film recorder also recorded vox, I mean there would be potentially incriminating audio recordings on everyones hard drives! just as well it doesnt eh?
(btw Im hinting that you guys are idiots)
someone remind me what the last couple of pages have to do with overall player numbers and its effect on gameplay? :headscratch:
Yeah but you have to make an effort to record it on vent. On AH it just happens and to use that is lame.
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Yeah, probably just like the college kid who filmed his roomate having gay sex and posted it on the Internet only to have the roomate kill himself. Good work.
And I noticed you said "hopefully" meaning you're leaving the door open to doing the same again to someone else. I'm not sure how anyone could trust you. I know I wouldn't.
Where have I posted anything Bipolar said? I simply stated that if he were to "share", I would simply do the same.
So apparently, according to you - trying to protect a 16 year old boy from the threats of a grown 30 something year old man puts me in the same class as a twisted pervert? OH MY GOD... How does your brain work?
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This is sure a fun game to play, wouldn't you Gentlemen agree?
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Where have I posted anything Bipolar said? I simply stated that if he were to "share", I would simply do the same.
So apparently, according to you - trying to protect a 16 year old boy from the threats of a grown 30 something year old man puts in the same class as a twisted pervert? OH MY GOD...
My point was the kid who posted that probably had his reasons too. That didn't make it right.
It's pretty clear that BiP had something on you and you contrived a way to entrap him so you could blackmail him to keep whatever he had from becoming public.
I've never had any positive or negative feelings about the Few but you've really put yourself and your entire squad in a bad light. Whatever BiP had on you this is probably worse.
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you guys need to freaking grow up, some people take this game and all its drama to far, and thank god all the players don't read the forum or i think we would have less players than we have now.
Now as far as the Topic of this thread goes, theres always enough players but i feel the playing style is changing from what it used to be, more and more players feel safer in large numbers that's why you see alot of horde vrs horde fights, sure its fun but that grows old fast theres more to the game than just that, it just seems the days of the little battles for airfields and GV bases are gone i used to log in and see them battles all over the map but the fighting style was different then players didn't mind flying around alone or small numbers to fight and defend Fields, it just seems its the total opposite today, overwhelming numbers advance on a single base instead of fighting all over the Map
i guess they just feel safer that way, just my thoughts
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My point was the kid who posted that probably had his reasons too. That didn't make it right.
It's pretty clear that BiP had something on you and you contrived a way to entrap him so you could blackmail him to keep whatever he had from becoming public.
I've never had any positive or negative feelings about the Few but you've really put yourself and your entire squad in a bad light. Whatever BiP had on you this is probably worse.
This is the thing, he has nothing on me. If he does, I give him free rain to share it with the community with no backlash. Everything else you say is complete BS, this is why people like you should learn to keep your nose out.
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you guys need to freaking grow up, some people take this game and all its drama to far, and thank god all the players don't read the forum or i think we would have less players than we have now.
Now as far as the Topic of this thread goes, theres always enough players but i feel the playing style is changing from what it used to be, more and more players feel safer in large numbers that's why you see alot of horde vrs horde fights, sure its fun but that grows old fast theres more to the game than just that, it just seems the days of the little battles for airfields and GV bases are gone i used to log in and see them battles all over the map but the fighting style was different then players didn't mind flying around alone or small numbers to fight and defend Fields, it just seems its the total opposite today, overwhelming numbers advance on a single base instead of fighting all over the Map
i guess they just feel safer that way, just my thoughts
I agree with the symptoms described. As stated before I think its just an issue of 'feeling accomplished'. The learning curve is steep and the game rules are very 'loose', as such the natural tendency is to gravitate to the 'easiest' way to achieve the sense that one has 'accomplished' something. Also, keep in mind that the game is a zero sum environment, for me to feel 'accomplished' it has to be at the expense of you feeling like you failed (aka you killed me, or I killed you). As Snailman pointed out, most have a k/d below 1 and thus single fights distributed don't encourage that.
It would be interesting to see an arena where there are more clear objectives, such as one that simulates the 'battle of Britain'. The game script would list available missions, and a player could only up as part of a particular mission. There would be more than one mission per country at one time (maybe 4 or 5 depending on the number of players there). This would be like a team oriented version of a single player combat sim. This would be also be like the scenarios blended with the no-structure env of the MA.
See this is the thing, he has nothing on me. If he does I give him free rain to share it with the community with no backlash. Everything else you say is complete BS, this is why people like you should learn to keep your nose out.
sorry Kazaa, the damage has been done... the judgments have been made, better off trying to get this thread back on track.
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I use this quote as 1 of many potential example.
sorry Kazaa, the damage has been done... the judgments have been made, better off trying to get this thread back on track.
Some of you guys are so wrapped in biased evidence, (and I use the word evidence very loosely.)
Believing hear-say and rumour just proves how daft and fickle some of you are. You know there is always more than one side to any disagreement.
Take people (and squads) as ther are and how they act towards you personally.
You Lose, Good Day Sir! :salute
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I use this quote as 1 of many potential example.Some of you guys are so wrapped in biased evidence, (and I use the word evidence very loosely.)
Believing hear-say and rumour just proves how daft and fickle some of you are. You know there is always more than one side to any disagreement.
Take people (and squads) as ther are and how they act towards you personally.
You Lose, Good Day Sir! :salute
You clearly misunderstood and trying to drag this out longer....
1)Do you want the whole community focused on your squad?
2)Do you think the topic will rest by posting competitive statements like "You Lose"?
3)Do you want the 'rumours' to perpetuate further by focusing on it?
4)Look how well people responded to recording your members conversations? this is a no win situation for your squad.
I suggest you drop it...
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you guys need to freaking grow up, some people take this game and all its drama to far, and thank god all the players don't read the forum or i think we would have less players than we have now.
Q F T
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1)Do you want the whole community focused on your squad?
By the whole community, you do mean 5 or 6 posters who are already obsessed with constantly spitting bile about The Few anyway, right? :lol
Seems to me like Kazaa is showing consideration for Bipolar by not revealing the reasons for all this shady drama in the past
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By the whole community, you do mean 5 or 6 posters who are already obsessed with constantly spitting bile about The Few anyway, right? :lol
Seems to me like Kazaa is showing consideration for Bipolar by not revealing the reasons for all this shady drama in the past
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: always trying to have the last word arn't you?
How about you tell us your ideas around there being enough players?
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You clearly misunderstood and trying to drag this out longer....
1)Do you want the whole community focused on your squad?
2)Do you think the topic will rest by posting competitive statements like "You Lose"?
3)Do you want the 'rumours' to perpetuate further by focusing on it?
4)Look how well people responded to recording your members conversations? this is a no win situation for your squad.
I suggest you drop it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aJROW6cuEM&feature=related
I think he was referring to this^
The few are an easy target. Damn limey berks.
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:rolleyes: :rolleyes: always trying to have the last word arn't you?
yes that's me, always getting involved in these stupid arguments, trying to have the last word :rofl there's no getting anything past you!
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yes that's me, always getting involved in these stupid arguments, trying to have the last word :rofl there's no getting anything past you!
You sir are the worst of the worst when in comes to being involved in these things.
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You sir are the worst of the worst when in comes to being involved in these things.
Your avatar doesnt fit your ingame name. :huh
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You sir are the worst of the worst when in comes to being involved in these things.
errr...are you kidding? :huh care to provide examples? or are you just blindly throwing accusations around in the hope that some will stick?
i think i only ever posted in that Dueling Bracket thread, and I stepped out of that LONG before it got really ugly
maybe you're confusing me with someone else
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Your avatar doesnt fit your ingame name. :huh
yours fits you perfectly :aok
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This will be my last post on this but...
This is the thing, he has nothing on me. If he does, I give him free rain to share it with the community with no backlash.
Really? Then what's all this about?
I know for a fact that you recorded our last Ventrilo conversation as you tried to blackmail me... with the knowledge you had obtained.
You do realise that every transmit you made over Ventrilo was recorded? Ask yourself this question: Did you ever say something that you wouldn't want the community knowing?
I simply stated that if he were to "share", I would simply do the same.
Some of you guys are so wrapped in biased evidence
I'd agree that the evidence is biased and not in the Few's favor.
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I'd agree that the evidence is biased and not in the Few's favor.
What evidence is this then? I guess I must have missed it :headscratch:
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lol I don't need to hear or see any incriminating evidence...... Ive seen them in action....:aok (just for you ace :rofl)
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Yeah, probably just like the college kid who filmed his roomate having gay sex and posted it on the Internet only to have the roomate kill himself. Good work.
And I noticed you said "hopefully" meaning you're leaving the door open to doing the same again to someone else. I'm not sure how anyone could trust you. I know I wouldn't.
BaldEagl this is awful really you should have read this about 8 times before posting it and then deleted it, seriously an absurd parerall to draw, and in my humble opinion makes you look like a bit of a lunatic.
Regards all these allegations its time everyone laid their cards on the table, I'm certainly bored of reading baseless innuendo. Knowing the facts I feel very very confident in the hand we hold, and in the integrity of the squad.
Perhaps holding it back is doing more long term harm by giving our accusers creditability when their actions betray their true nature, might also open the eyes of a few co accusers!
"Mirror mirror in my hand, who is the most two faced in all the land?......"
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Let me get this straight... a squad conspired to work together to ensure victory for its members in KOTH?
I remember some sort of stupid whining about that very same thing back when they were doing the pre-KOTH event... Wild Wednesday was it? Folks kept complaining that ManeTMP, Fester, Kappa, and other folks from the same squad were communicating and cooperating with one another against event rules. This was in 2001.
Oh, and I didn't really see any evidence of that. Maybe they did, maybe not, but I doubt it affected the outcome in any event. Life's too short to get worked up about such nonsense.
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(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4598/skuzzysignal.gif) (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/skuzzysignal.gif/)
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errr...are you kidding? :huh care to provide examples? or are you just blindly throwing accusations around in the hope that some will stick?
i think i only ever posted in that Dueling Bracket thread, and I stepped out of that LONG before it got really ugly
maybe you're confusing me with someone else
I was being facetious.
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Your avatar doesnt fit your ingame name. :huh
I was just thinking about changing it but I wont be flying as KoolAid forever.
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I don't suppose there are films of the KOTHs with Vent traffic to accompany them. Just clear this up once and for all.
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I don't suppose there are films of the KOTHs with Vent traffic to accompany them. Just clear this up once and for all.
Films wont record Ventrillo conversations
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Let me get this straight... a squad conspired to work together to ensure victory for its members in KOTH?
I remember some sort of stupid whining about that very same thing back when they were doing the pre-KOTH event... Wild Wednesday was it? Folks kept complaining that ManeTMP, Fester, Kappa, and other folks from the same squad were communicating and cooperating with one another against event rules. This was in 2001.
Oh, and I didn't really see any evidence of that. Maybe they did, maybe not, but I doubt it affected the outcome in any event. Life's too short to get worked up about such nonsense.
O'rly.
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Seems to me like Kazaa is showing consideration for Bipolar by not revealing the reasons for all this shady drama in the past
If he were truly showing consideration for BiP he wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. The actions Kazaa has taken only shows poor taste on his part and his sad attempts and trying to claim the high ground just smacks of ripe hypocrisy. Kazaa's actions have done nothing to clear whatever The Few have been accused of, it's just reinforced the notion that Kazaa took these extreme measures to hide something they did that they don't want the community to find out. Seriously, is getting caught cybering on Vent really worth all this trouble?
ack-ack
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If he were truly showing consideration for BiP he wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. The actions Kazaa has taken only shows poor taste on his part and his sad attempts and trying to claim the high ground just smacks of ripe hypocrisy. Kazaa's actions have done nothing to clear whatever The Few have been accused of, it's just reinforced the notion that Kazaa took these extreme measures to hide something they did that they don't want the community to find out. Seriously, is getting caught cybering on Vent really worth all this trouble?
ack-ack
You're piling one assumption on another - for a start, assuming that Kazaa/The Few had anything to hide in the first place
Personally I wasn't around back then, and I know nothing about it. All I've heard is a lot of hot air *shrug* Has there actually been anything other than that? I'm honestly curious.
Bring on the real juicy drama! chat logs, films, ventrilo mp3s, home addresses and phone numbers, photos of ugly ex girlfriends. If you're going to have a tasty inter-squad rivalry, accusations of cheating, real life drama and threats, at least DO IT PROPERLY
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Films wont record Ventrillo conversations
Yes but it was said the vent conversations were recorded. Or was that just in BiPs case to hold something over his head?
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If he were truly showing consideration for BiP he wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. The actions Kazaa has taken only shows poor taste on his part and his sad attempts and trying to claim the high ground just smacks of ripe hypocrisy. Kazaa's actions have done nothing to clear whatever The Few have been accused of, it's just reinforced the notion that Kazaa took these extreme measures to hide something they did that they don't want the community to find out. Seriously, is getting caught cybering on Vent really worth all this trouble?
ack-ack
this is so perfect its gotta be said twice
edit....
:aok
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You're piling one assumption on another - for a start, assuming that Kazaa/The Few had anything to hide in the first place
Personally I wasn't around back then, and I know nothing about it. All I've heard is a lot of hot air *shrug* Has there actually been anything other than that? I'm honestly curious.
Bring on the real juicy drama! chat logs, films, ventrilo mp3s, home addresses and phone numbers, photos of ugly ex girlfriends. If you're going to have a tasty inter-squad rivalry, accusations of cheating, real life drama and threats, at least DO IT PROPERLY
I'm not assuming anything as I haven't made any assumptions at all regarding what your squadron has been accused of. Honestly, I don't care. All I did was point out that the hypocritical attempts by Kazaa to claim the high ground has backfired and reinforced whatever beliefs those have about The Few. If anything this thread has shown is a serious lack of class on the part of The Few.
I'm willing to bet that after this thread is done, the vGuys will have more respect amongst the community than The Few.
ack-ack
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So what you're saying is, there hasn't actually been anything other than hot air? Got it.
(P.S. I think we can all agree that these bickering threads don't make anyone look good, but as I recently opined to a squaddie, when people are constantly throwing sh it at you, you might as well get a bit more dirty and throw some back *shrug*)
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So what you're saying is, there hasn't actually been anything other than hot air? Got it.
Kazaa's post about BiP was more than just hot air.
ack-ack
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Nothing happend in KOTH or TOC. Enough is enough if someones got mp3s on us supposedly cheating by all means post it. If you don't stop making accusations. Its getting old someone lay down the cards Bip?
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Kazaa's post about BiP was more than just hot air.
ack-ack
Yes, and your assumption was that recordings were made in order to protect The Few from some kind scandal, which is pure speculation.
Maybe the recordings were made because like you said, they were cybering, and it was such a good session they needed to keep it for posterity...
I think a hint of the reason for it was already posted in the thread anyway. But again I should stress that I don't know the truth for sure because I wasn't around at the time. I'm speculating wildly just as much as everyone else in this thread...
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Yes, and your assumption was that recordings were made in order to protect The Few from some kind scandal, which is pure speculation.
I know for a fact that you recorded our last Ventrilo conversation as you tried to blackmail me... with the knowledge you had obtained.
You do realise that every transmit you made over Ventrilo was recorded? Ask yourself this question: Did you ever say something that you wouldn't want the community knowing?
I simply stated that if he were to "share", I would simply do the same.
Pure speculation? :headscratch:
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:noid You're right.....Kazaa does seem to be evil
Now I'm really intrigued about whatever happened in that steamy and dimly lit Ventrilo channel
Post the mp3s :rock
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Pure speculation? :headscratch:
#no smoke without fire #
But what is actually burning?
I specuate that it's nothing more than bull, an excuse to cause another squad disharmony
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There are also more than enough folks who fly a single aircraft obsessively that this would have maximal impact on upping planes.
Nope, I'm telling you people would be upset over it. Some would grab a different plane, some would log, some would quit.
*shrug* I'm just saying it's a bad idea to put the country's ability to fly a certain plane in the hands of the other side. I can pretty easily envision guys with a lot of time on their hands obsessively keeping the factories down.
Realistic != fun in some cases, this would be one of them.
Wiley.
We dissagree on almost all counts. this would actually have a less greater impact on upping planes then eny does. Which can last all night in some cases and while people get upset. I dont see many quitting over it. I doubt very much that people would quit over loosing only a very limited and specific planes.
You already have the ability to not only limit. but eliminate entirely planes and gvs from a base.. I've seen it doing in entire areas covering several bases in circumference.
I agree maint would be more realistic. but furballers would loath it just as they did when we used to run around porking the fuel. Which is why I make the alternative suggestion. It would only effect a limited amount of people who re-arm. and not many do. and it would only effect them at certain bases under certain circumstances
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Nothing happend in KOTH or TOC. Enough is enough if someones got mp3s on us supposedly cheating by all means post it. If you don't stop making accusations. Its getting old someone lay down the cards Bip?
Why the hell would we have recordings of your conversations? Oh wait, you don't understand how all this works.
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Why the hell would we have recordings of your conversations? Oh wait, you don't understand how all this works.
Bip black mailed us saying that he had Mp3s. Oh wait, maybe you should ask him.
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What were his terms?
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What were his terms?
Elaborate
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Me and you Hoff, VS. Shane and whatever half blind, one arm, no legged wingthing he brings.
We got our work cut out for us, but it'll be worth it...
reminds me of the old joke but would have the same punchline
Two friends are out hiking when one of them gets bitten on the butt (polite version) by a snake.
Fearing the too much movement would cause the venom to travel faster the bitten guy sends his buddy to go find a phone and call a doctor.
Doing this he contacts a doctor and after describing what happened and what the snake looked like the doctor tells him that first he has to make a deep cut across the bite an then he has to suck the venom out.
The guy returns to his bitten friend who asks him about the doctor to which the guy says.
"The doctor says your gonna die"
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Elaborate
What did he want in return
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Me and Joachim out of the squad for no reason. Wonder why hes not posting? I think you have your answer.
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Me and Joachim out of the squad for no reason. Wonder why hes not posting? I think you have your answer.
Well, I'm sure there was a reason. I don't even know you and I could come up with 3 or 4.
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reminds me of the old joke but would have the same punchline
Two friends are out hiking when one of them gets bitten on the butt (polite version) by a snake.
Fearing the too much movement would cause the venom to travel faster the bitten guy sends his buddy to go find a phone and call a doctor.
Doing this he contacts a doctor and after describing what happened and what the snake looked like the doctor tells him that first he has to make a deep cut across the bite an then he has to suck the venom out.
The guy returns to his bitten friend who asks him about the doctor to which the guy says.
"The doctor says your gonna die"
Yeah, Shane whoops the tar outta me regularly.
Good way to learn though.
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Well, I'm sure there was a reason. I don't even know you and I could come up with 3 or 4.
As much as I loath posting just a smiley face, this post deserves it!
:rofl
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As much as I loath posting just a smiley face, this post deserves it!
:rofl
:rofl
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Your own post contradicts itself, if you held no grudge you wouldn't have said anything. You are clearly upset and Akak is enjoying the drama he created, at your emotional expense.
EDIT: If you want to talk about it Musik, PM me, I'm not upset. If you just want to hide and attempt to poke insults at me behind other arguments that your not apart of... cheers
OMG your full of yourself. Cheers...
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Let me get this straight... a squad conspired to work together to ensure victory for its members in KOTH?
I remember some sort of stupid whining about that very same thing back when they were doing the pre-KOTH event... Wild Wednesday was it? Folks kept complaining that ManeTMP, Fester, Kappa, and other folks from the same squad were communicating and cooperating with one another against event rules. This was in 2001.
Oh, and I didn't really see any evidence of that. Maybe they did, maybe not, but I doubt it affected the outcome in any event. Life's too short to get worked up about such nonsense.
you remember wrong or are misinformed or both.
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:airplane: