Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => All things VR => Topic started by: Wingnutt on April 15, 2019, 12:11:42 PM
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My VR expierence is NOW a complete dumpster fire.
No mouse support, so I have to look where I want to click.. great.. EXCEPT Looking down makes the clipboard go down, looking up makes it go up, so it VERY VERY VERY hard to get the dot on what I want to click.
then when I FINALLY get into the tower the clipboard is so far away its unusable and same issue.. the CLIPBOARD MOVES WITH THE VIEW.. so if I try to look at it, IT MOVES AWAY.
Ive been playing this game in VR for a long time now I cant even get airborn did something change?
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So to clarify, EVERYTHING on the screen moves when you move your head.. if the clipboard is just to the left of where you are looking and you turn left to look at it, it moves left as you turn left.
Things Ive tried:
Reboot
Checked other games: DCS, Xplane 11. no issues.
Looked for settings.. nothing of use.
game is currently unplayable.
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Which headset and software are you using? My Rift works normally.
It sounds like you're moving your head position instead of your view.
Do you have recenter mapped to a button in AH?
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Rift CV1
Fresh install of the game havent mapped anything.
Cannot get to the option to map anything because its so screwed up.
Going to do a full reinstall to make sure something didnt just mess up, will update
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It may be something was mapped by the installation. Take off the headset and go full screen and you should be able to see your settings.
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did reinstall and logged in without VR, checked settings, recenter tracker is set to CTRL+F4
Issue persists, EVERYTHING moves with the headset, the background logo, the menus, everything.
EDIT: when I log in it prompts to press a button to recenter, when I do that the clipboard pops down and to the left instead of to the center, then if I try to look down and left to click anything the board moves down and left as well until it bottoms out and I can click on it.
I am VERY familiar with this game both with and without VR, this has never happened.
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Log in with VR then take the headset off. Then recenter if needed. Then check mappings and settings.
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Ok so I see what the issue is, but Have no idea WHY.
things are "snapped" to me that should not be.
for example.. If I go in the tower... and look left and right.. the tower MOVES WITH ME as well as the clipboard but the airfield is seen as expected.
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Log in with VR then take the headset off. Then recenter if needed. Then check mappings and settings.
it has nothing to do with recentering.
For example: At the main splash screen, I can recenter all day long. the background AH logo and the clipboard move as I look around instead of being stationary. Even if everything is centered, if I look left EVERYTHING moves to the left.. etc etc.
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Are you using steam?
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I have steam but this was not a steam download
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Are you launching from the desktop icon?
Did you try renaming the Setting folder?
Curious if the Steam version has the same issue.
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Ive seen that happen when sensors are blocked.
HiTech
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Ive seen that happen when sensors are blocked.
HiTech
Thats what I thought, I switched to 1 sensor, no change, back to 2, verified both are working in Oculus Home and DCS, no issues, only with AH.
EDIT:
I managed to get into a plane on the runway. I figured maybe the issue is just with the menus, so i tried to get past that to fly, no joy The scenery moves as expected but the aircraft/cockpit moves with the head movement, same as the tower. Instead of looking left and right within the aircraft, the entire cockpit shifts left and right.
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default view when I enter the game, everything centered
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looking left..
notice how the clipboard is now way off to the left and I am no longer in the center of the tower.
instead of remaining in place and looking left, EVERYTHING shifts to the left.
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Incase it is relevent
Ryzen 2700X watercooled @ 4.3 all cores
X470 Mobo (Aorus)
RTX 2070XC water cooled, overclocked
16GB mem @ 3200mhz
1TB SSD
RIFT CV1
WIN10 17763 DX12
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AH is not functioning with 6DOF that is for sure, closed AH and launched DCS, 6 DOF is fine, closed DCS launched AH problem persists.
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When you reinstalled AH did you keep the settings folder?
Did you try renaming it to make a new one?
You've likely had Win10 updates. Try reinstalling the latest video driver.
You might also reinstall Oculus.
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I deleted the HTC directory after uninstall.
Video card drivers are up to date.
Reinstalled Oculus
Spun around in chair
Pet (Both) dogs
Placed a collect call to Sweden
Fished in the bathtub
Fought a Pygmy Shaman
Bought synthetic weed from a wayward carnie
Did the macarena
held breath for 3 minutes
learned mandarin
No luck.
the menus, tower, cockpit, all move with my head as I turn it instead of staying in place. the world outside does not, its working fine.
EDIT: where else might there be info relevant to this stored besides the regular game directory?
the ONLY other potential thing I think it could be is last time I played (before uninstalling a while back) I was playing with a Samsung Odyssey + which has a different tracking system. Im wondering if that config is still on here somewhere and causing this. Its a long shot but its all I can think of at this point.
EDIT2
Uninstalled game again and reinsalled to a different directory than default.
No Change.
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---the ONLY other potential thing I think it could be is last time I played (before uninstalling a while back) I was playing with a Samsung Odyssey + which has a different tracking system. I'm wondering if that config is still on here somewhere and causing this. Its a long shot but its all I can think of at this point.
Take a look in your Device Manager. In the View menu, choose Show hidden devices. If you find the Odyssey anywhere, remove it.
In Windows 7 you'll have to do the following to see non-present devices, in later versions apparently not (guess it doesn't hurt doing, though): https://www.thewindowsclub.com/show-non-present-devices-windows (https://www.thewindowsclub.com/show-non-present-devices-windows)
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Take a look in your Device Manager. In the View menu, choose Show hidden devices. If you find the Odyssey anywhere, remove it.
In Windows 7 you'll have to do the following to see non-present devices, in later versions apparently not (guess it doesn't hurt doing, though): https://www.thewindowsclub.com/show-non-present-devices-windows (https://www.thewindowsclub.com/show-non-present-devices-windows)
Great tip!
There was some latent stuff in the device manager under "mixed reality" or something to that effect, I removed that, rebooted and checked again to make sure it didnt return.
Sadly still no fix, the tower/aircraft/clipboard is still attached to my head.
Its so wierd, the outside world DOES NOT DO THIS it responds to 6DOF as expected, but the building itself is as though its snapped to my head and moves with it.
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UPDATE:
I opted in to the Oculus beta feature and as expected it pushed a software and driver update, so that went through no issues.
No change in the game, but I did notice something else and I dont know if this has anything to do with anything or if its just a bug.
That annoying BOOOOOOMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "welcome to aces high" thing with the slide out window etc etc.. every time I run the game I check the boxes to never run that intro again and yet every time I start the game the boxes are unchecked and it runs away so those settings are not being saved.
Probably nothing but this is a fishing expedition at this point so figured I would mention it.
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Deleted and tried steam version, same issue.
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UPDATE:
VR is disabled in game I think..
it doesn't say it is.. but checking the "DISABLE VR" box makes ZERO difference in how things act.
I tried checking it, towering out, then going back to the runway and re-checking it, no difference.
Doing a forced update of video card drivers.
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Uninstalled and reinstalled Gforce expierence and card drivers, no change.
I'm out of ideas at this point, I've got nothing, ive tried everything I've got nothing to follow here, no other game or VR app has any issues so there is no commonality with anything.
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Sounds like there are mappings to an axis or something odd. Heck it even sounds like you are in F3/External view by defauult.
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Sounds like there are mappings to an axis or something odd. Heck it even sounds like you are in F3/External view by defauult.
I thought the same thing when he described the issue.
If it was me I would go through the controller mappings one by one and check what each input is assigned to. Couldn't hurt, and it beats uninstalling and re-installing the game. Which may be the root of the problem in the first place.
<S>
Sik
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FIXED!!!
This issue was related my thrustmaster TWCS throttle.
The default bindings that AH has for that throttle maps a view function to DIAL0 that conflicts with the rift. They are the default bindings that automatically get assigned so thats why reinstalling the game didnt fix it.
I unmapped that function and all is working normally
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It may be something was mapped by the installation. ...
...Then check mappings and settings.
When you reinstalled AH did you keep the settings folder?
Did you try renaming it to make a new one?
Glad you finally got it working. :aok
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Sounds like something you should still report in the bug section.
Wouldn't any new use with a thrustmaster TWCS throttle and Occulus have this problem as their first impression of the game?
Glad you got back up and running.
:salute
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It's something that happens with axis assignments because there's no industry standard. That's why we troubleshoot by renaming the settings folder and always recommend checking assignments.
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It's something that happens with axis assignments because there's no industry standard. That's why we troubleshoot by renaming the settings folder and always recommend checking assignments.
Yet a brand new Occulus user's first impression (with a worthog throttle) would be the game to hopelessly broken?
Could the program not detect an Occulus first time run and ask if it wants to unmap that default to avoid a known conflict issue? I assume this isn't an issue unique to Wingnutt. I assume any first time Occulus user with a warthog throttle would be broken already when they first open the app. Did I mis-understand?
If the program doesn't at least mostly function for them at first startup, you've probably already lost a customer. You probably only have 5 min to start interesting them before they uninstall and download the next of 50 games they wanted to try that weekend. They are not going to spend hours (days?) trouble-shooting just to run it for the first time.
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That's not how it works. It depends on what other controllers are plugged in at the same time. No game can auto assign multiple controllers accurately.
You can avoid assignment problems by not auto-assigning anything, but Aces High has templates for most common setups that should help most people.
New players get video help.
BTW the TWCS throttle is not the Warthog throttle. No idea how the assignments match up but the TWCS is single thrust.
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That's not how it works. It depends on what other controllers are plugged in at the same time. No game can auto assign multiple controllers accurately.
You can avoid assignment problems by not auto-assigning anything, but Aces High has templates for most common setups that should help most people.
New players get video help.
BTW the TWCS throttle is not the Warthog throttle. No idea how the assignments match up but the TWCS is single thrust.
Are you saying HT is incapable of writing code that detects what hardware is plugged in?
AHIII knows my Vive is plugged in. I seem to remember it recognized my joystick and had it listed as the default control device.
Are you saying HT could not write code to recognize, oh, we have headset X plugged in an throttle y plugged in and this is a first time run of the program and we KNOW there is a issue with that combination that we know ahead of time will make the game appear hopelessly broken, are you saying it would be impossible for HT to popup a dialog saying "There is a known conflict with the default throttle mapping for throttle y and headset x. Please change that outside of VR before attempting to run the game. " and on the dlg it has a link to a help page describing the issue in detail and the step by step instructions for or it just opens automatically when the warning dlg closes.
Are you saying that is technically impossible to implement?
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...
AHIII knows my Vive is plugged in. I seem to remember it recognized my joystick and had it listed as the default control device.
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Sounds like it works.
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Sounds like it works.
So there are all the pieces to sanity check a known combination that is known to not work, and convey that to a user with a simple dialog on first run, so they don't have to spend a week trouble shooting to identify a already known failure combination.
Because a new user trying a free download probably is not going to go through that. They will just assume the code is broken, uninstall and move on.
Is that what you want?
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Ever seen the new guy spawn in and sit on the runway guns firing non stop? Same issue. AH looks at what controllers are installed and assigns some ‘useful’ commands to them.
Best thing to do ove all mapping then go through and map what you want. I remember it mapped ‘fire primary’ to my car racing pedals, joystick button, second mouse right button.
I knew what was going on so was able to resolve. If I was new I would just walk away.
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So there are all the pieces to sanity check a known combination that is known to not work, and convey that to a user with a simple dialog on first run, so they don't have to spend a week trouble shooting to identify a already known failure combination.
Because a new user trying a free download probably is not going to go through that. They will just assume the code is broken, uninstall and move on.
Is that what you want?
You want a foolproof solution to a hypothetical problem.
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You want a foolproof solution to a hypothetical problem.
What is hypothetical about the problem? It is a known fact that AH maps functions to controllers. It is a known fact that this requires a user to trouble shoot the problem.
Nothing about this is hypothetical.
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The actual problem was fixed. The notion that every possible hardware configuration should be accounted for was in regard to a hypothetical future event.
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The actual problem was fixed. The notion that every possible hardware configuration should be accounted for was in regard to a hypothetical future event.
There is no need to account for every possible hardware configuration, all you need to do is account for known issues. In this example, we now have a known issue where AH by default maps a view function which conflicts with Oculus. So, perhaps on first installation of a VR instance it might perhaps not map a view to a button or maybe alert the user that another controller is mapped to a view and a potential error may result.
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You are assuming that every user with the Thrustmaster TWCS and Oculus will have the same problem.
You are assuming there is an easy fix.
The problem and solution are both hypothetical.
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There is no need to account for every possible hardware configuration, all you need to do is account for known issues. In this example, we now have a known issue where AH by default maps a view function which conflicts with Oculus. So, perhaps on first installation of a VR instance it might perhaps not map a view to a button or maybe alert the user that another controller is mapped to a view and a potential error may result.
Exactly. Strawman argument.
It is a basic tenet of software design to check for and convey to the user basic error conditions you already know about that is simply going to prevent functioning.
Imagine a cd burning software that just locks up when you try and run it instead of it prompting a dialog saying "Hmmm we noticed you have not put a blank cd into the drive. Please do so and then try again." Which behavior would provide a better user experience?
You may not have identified every error condition, but when you do know of one, sanity check for it and throw the user a bone. Don't leave users hanging when you know of and can easily identify a potential failure condition. Quickly popup a dialog helping the user out, or leave them to struggle with a week of trouble shooting only to find a known issue? Which would encourage them to sign up for an account?
I swear. Some people have the software user experience instincts of a DMV clerk.
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Why do you think Hitech hasn't already done everything he can do?
What you actually know is that the OP had a problem and it's fixed.
You're saying that a perfect system is a strawman argument but the system is broken because it isn't perfect.
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Why do you think Hitech hasn't already done everything he can do?
Why do you think he has already done everything he can do?
What we actually do know is the OP had a problem that he eventually solved after taking extensive measures to try to solve it. His frustration was tangible. Imagine what a new player would have done. I doubt he would have put the effort in.
There is more that could and should be done.
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Imagine what a new player would have done. ...
I imagine he would have taken my advice the first day and saved himself a lot of frustration.
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I imagine he would have taken my advice the first day and saved himself a lot of frustration.
How about the new player is not put in that position in the first place. Wouldn’t that be a better option?
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How about the new player is not put in that position in the first place. Wouldn’t that be a better option?
When that rare hypothetical player has a problem we will provide the appropriate hypothetical solution.
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When that rare hypothetical player has a problem we will provide the appropriate hypothetical solution.
There is nothing hypothetical here. HTC has stated in the past that he has no problems attracting new sign ups to the game, the issue is keeping them longer than 20 minutes. Therefore, a new player is not hypothetical.
When you do a fresh install of AH it finds connected controllers and assigns commands to some of those controllers. On occasion this leads to conflicts. Example. Every fresh install I have ever done the game picks up my Fanatec Clubsport pedals and assigns 'Fire all guns' to the throttle pedal. When I launch the game I sit on the runway guns blazing and then remember I have to go unmap it.
There is nothing hypothetical about that.
I have seen new players spawn in and sit on the runway with their guns blazing. I assume they have had a similar experience with some controller being mapped.
There is nothing hypothetical about that.
These are facts. They happen and can be repeated.
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You think I said new players are hypothetical? :D
Hitech looked at the mapping issue and recently added more controller configurations.
Your own example illustrates the problem with multiple controllers.
Try unplugging the controllers you aren't using when you set up the game.
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You think I said new players are hypothetical? :D
That is exactly what you said in your post at 05:13:32. You even quoted my reference to that new player.
How about the new player is not put in that position in the first place. Wouldn't that be a better option?
When that rare hypothetical player has a problem we will provide the appropriate hypothetical solution.
Seems pretty clear to me that you did refer to new players as hypothetical.
Hitech looked at the mapping issue and recently added more controller configurations.
I think he is going down the wrong route by trying to add more controller configurations. As you have already stated, it would be impossible to cater for every mix of controllers.
Your own example illustrates the problem with multiple controllers.
Agreed. Hence my belief that adding more controller configs is not the way to go.
Try unplugging the controllers you aren't using when you set up the game.
That is an option however it is not the preferred option for me. Of course the problem is that a new player would not know to unplug their controllers prior to setting up the game so the end result is the same, they have inappropriate or conflicting mappings.
For me the most practical method would be to not have any pre determined mappings and direct the player to set up their controllers as part of the post installation start up routine. That way the player is engaged in the setting up of their controls and Hitech does not have to keep adding controller configurations.
iRacing does this quite well.
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The rare new player who has the same problem as the OP is not the same as "every new player". Context matters.
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The OP had a conflicting controller issue. That is not uncommon.
You are now simply arguing for the sake of arguing.
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The OP's problem was different because he couldn't look at the controller setup for conflicts. That's unusual.
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The OP's problem was different because he couldn't look at the controller setup for conflicts. That's unusual.
There is nothing stopping the OP from looking at his controller setup for conflicts, he simply answers no to the pop up asking if he wants to use his VR and the game will open in a normal windows environment. You suggested something similar which will revert AH to normal windows view. IMHO that is one of the best things HTC did with VR as takin your headset off does not mean you need to exit the game.
It may be something was mapped by the installation. Take off the headset and go full screen and you should be able to see your settings.
Notwithstanding that, my point was that he would not have to check for conflicts if the game itself did not auto assign attributes to controllers but invited the user to configure detected controllers after initial install. This is not about if HTC can create default maps for controllers but more about if he should. My opinion is it is better that the game recognises the controllers and invites the user to configure them.
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Obviously if nothing is mapped nothing will be mapped wrong. I assume HTC's many years experience with customer controller issues tells them that mapping the controllers is better than not mapping them.
Players with HOTAS are likely more used to setting them up and need less help than new players with only a joystick.
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Players with HOTAS are likely more used to setting them up and need less help than new players with only a joystick.
For what I've noticed, a single joystick gets the most essential axises and buttons right even if there's no preset. X, Y, Z and Slider are logical, button #1 is always the primary weapon trigger and the 8 way hat is for viewing. Supposedly someone having invested into VR would have a little more complicated controller set as well with several XYZ's and sliders. Knowing that even with a single stick people have their preferences for setup, preconfiguring every potential combination of controllers is a mission impossible. For example if you have a twisty stick, a throttle with a rocker and pedals, which of the three should be assigned for rudder? The T.16000M Flight Pack has all of those it's not only about systems gathered from here and there.
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Same thing happens with the Vive, btw.
I just got a TWCS and went to try it and my VR was fubar. Then I remembered this thread.
I'm glad Wingnutt went through this pain for me. :D
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I wonder if the game sees it as the old Thrustmaster TWCS that plugged into the Cougar instead of the new stand alone throttle. Weird that it doesn't happen with anything else.
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I wonder if the game sees it as the old Thrustmaster TWCS that plugged into the Cougar instead of the new stand alone throttle. Weird that it doesn't happen with anything else.
OMG are you really that thick? It DOES happen with other stuff. In fact it happens all the time for ‘stuff’.
For some reason you will simply not accept the controller conflict issue. Why is that?
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Same thing happens with the Vive, btw.
I just got a TWCS and went to try it and my VR was fubar. Then I remembered this thread.
I'm glad Wingnutt went through this pain for me. :D
I switched to Thrustmaster rudder pedals last week and had a similar problem with VR the first time I booted up. I checked assignments and everything was correct. Nothing was mis-mapped. I just rebooted and it was fine. I wonder if it's an issue with Thrustmaster drivers or software.
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OMG are you really that thick? It DOES happen with other stuff. In fact it happens all the time for ‘stuff’.
For some reason you will simply not accept the controller conflict issue. Why is that?
Page one I suggested looking for a controller conflict, like I've been doing for years.
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I switched to Thrustmaster rudder pedals last week and had a similar problem with VR the first time I booted up. I checked assignments and everything was correct. Nothing was mis-mapped. I just rebooted and it was fine. I wonder if it's an issue with Thrustmaster drivers or software.
I wouldn't be surprised if pressing the Shift button while shutting down would fix the issue. Not everyone has the Fast Startup feature disabled, or checked if it has re-enabled itself in an update.
Despite Windows 10 having improved vastly since it was launched, there's a ton of new tricks one has to learn to keep it in optimal shape for one's needs. It does many things automatically but they're for fulfilling Microsoft's needs.
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I wouldn't be surprised if pressing the Shift button while shutting down would fix the issue. Not everyone has the Fast Startup feature disabled, or checked if it has re-enabled itself in an update.
Despite Windows 10 having improved vastly since it was launched, there's a ton of new tricks one has to learn to keep it in optimal shape for one's needs. It does many things automatically but they're for fulfilling Microsoft's needs.
I’m not familiar with the Fast Startup Feature. Is that a windows 10 option, VR, or AH3?
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I’m not familiar with the Fast Startup Feature. Is that a windows 10 option, VR, or AH3?
Windows! It sort of shuts down but "Pre-loads" or safes in a "Pre-loaded" state most common apps you use. After a while you have a whole bunch of temp files...as I understnd it :uhoh
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I’m not familiar with the Fast Startup Feature. Is that a windows 10 option, VR, or AH3?
What 1stpar3 said, Windows. It's like Hibernation with the exception that it only saves your settings for the next boot, no matter if they're corrupted or not. A temporary fix is to press Shift when clicking Shutdown, a more permanent cure is to disable Fast Startup. "More" because Windows may re-enable it at some update.
You'll find it in Power Management (right click the Win icon down left)>Additional Settings>Choose what the Power Button does>Currently unavailable settings.
There's much more Power Management related settings which you should be aware of for best performance, they've been addressed in the Hardware and Software or Technical Support sections during the last year or so.
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Two common power management issues for game controllers are USB sleep settings not disabled and insufficient MB power.
After installing the drivers for my new pedals I noticed the axis ID's had changed. This can cause a problem with assignments if you let AH see the hardware before you install the drivers.
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Windows! It sort of shuts down but "Pre-loads" or safes in a "Pre-loaded" state most common apps you use. After a while you have a whole bunch of temp files...as I understnd it :uhoh
What 1stpar3 said, Windows. It's like Hibernation with the exception that it only saves your settings for the next boot, no matter if they're corrupted or not. A temporary fix is to press Shift when clicking Shutdown, a more permanent cure is to disable Fast Startup. "More" because Windows may re-enable it at some update.
You'll find it in Power Management (right click the Win icon down left)>Additional Settings>Choose what the Power Button does>Currently unavailable settings.
There's much more Power Management related settings which you should be aware of for best performance, they've been addressed in the Hardware and Software or Technical Support sections during the last year or so.
Thanks gents! Seems like there’s always one more thing. :aok