Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: humble on May 30, 2010, 11:03:16 PM
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Great idea but at the end of the day its the same old same old....
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what happen?
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Someone must have said something dumb to Humble.
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Good lord, I could care less what anyone says to me. I watched the CT go to garbage, my hope is that the no icon setup gives the AvA a fresh set of legs. At the end of the day it will be up to the player base, if the attitudes stay the same it'll be a "historical MA" with no icons. When you have a small group its important to exercise some common sense. When its 8 or 10 on 1,2 or 3 flying 262's makes no sense. When you see a guy one on 3 or so why not let the fight play out ore even better switch sides. I've got no problem flying toward 4 or 5 red dots, and I don't have any expectation of a "fair fight". But when you have no common sense at all exercised then its a wasted effort over the long run. The CT was about balance and a sense of fair play, this is a continuation of a circle jerk. Great intentions and a wonderful idea, but the folks who frequent it need to decide what they want.
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Always the double edged sword. An extremely sparsely populated gentleman's dueling arena or a multi-style arena with larger population and all that goes with that.
Hopefully it finds a happy medium.
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I'm not asking for a "gentleman's dueling arena". I'd like to see a bit of common sense from those who are regulars. I had some fun fun fights but it reaches a point of absurdity. When its 9 on 1 and 4 of the 9 are 262's I think that a few of the folks involved need to contemplate what they really want. When your on the side with the #'s and you see a guy locked up in a 1 on 3 and you and your wingie decide to make it 5 on 1 vs continuing on looking for another fight I think your only contributing to the problem not the solution....
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So "ganging" is the issue here. You'll get no argument from me on that, but I wasn't there tonight to see if it was worse than usual.
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On the one hand I can understand, but I've never been one to consider "balance" and "fair play" when it comes to combat simulations of any kind. I've found myself on the bad end of situations like that in the AvA more times than I can count and no matter how many times it happens, it's always a thrill because I learn something every time and once in a while I come out on top or I get away. With the AvA settings, if there is a lot of action going on, situations change so fast it's more difficult to stay out of a situation like that until you're already committed to do something.
If you find that yourself in a situation like that again, say something tactfully on 200 and bring it to everyone's attention. Most of the regulars will police themselves and at least try to get the new people to comply. I've seen it happen.
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On the one hand I can understand, but I've never been one to consider "balance" and "fair play" when it comes to combat simulations of any kind. I've found myself on the bad end of situations like that in the AvA more times than I can count and no matter how many times it happens, it's always a thrill because I learn something every time and once in a while I come out on top or I get away. With the AvA settings, if there is a lot of action going on, situations change so fast it's more difficult to stay out of a situation like that until you're already committed to do something.
If you find that yourself in a situation like that again, say something tactfully on 200 and bring it to everyone's attention. Most of the regulars will police themselves and at least try to get the new people to comply. I've seen it happen.
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You mean something like this?
I stopped in the AvA after furballing in the WWI arenas last night and flew there for the first time ever.
At first the players on the German side were all hugging the ack. That was no fun. Then they all ganged me 4-5 on one. That was no fun. I had a very hard time seeing where any of the enemy planes were without icons. That was no fun.
I guess some people like it and to each their own but I don't think I'll be back.
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I'm not asking for a "gentleman's dueling arena". I'd like to see a bit of common sense from those who are regulars. I had some fun fun fights but it reaches a point of absurdity. When its 9 on 1 and 4 of the 9 are 262's I think that a few of the folks involved need to contemplate what they really want. When your on the side with the #'s and you see a guy locked up in a 1 on 3 and you and your wingie decide to make it 5 on 1 vs continuing on looking for another fight I think your only contributing to the problem not the solution....
agreed sir :aok
seems that a simple approach at common sense would be asking if assistance is needed and if not, stay out of it!
this is almost never the case from what i can see as most arenas are full to the brim with new guys and vets alike just trying to add a second or third kill to there name in lights.
I don't see the point in jumping into what looks like a nice 1v1 just to add to my tally.
I often think that when i am in a great 1v1 and it's gone on for a few minutes and some dope jumps in for the pick how the guy i was fightin feels about it.....
I'M just sayin....
froger
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What is the CT? I don't think I've heard of it or been in there?
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This must have happened later, earlier the fights were good and equal.
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This must have happened later, earlier the fights were good and equal.
All in all I had a blast in the AvA over the weekend, to a degree even when it was bad it was good. There is a fine line that the regulars are going to find if they really want it to grow. I do realize that there is going to be a strong preference for certain planes and/or sides by most of us some of the time. The key is giving at least some thought to relative balance. It doesn't need to be even or balanced to be fun, but some feel for where the limits are needs to be nurtured if you want it to grow.
This is obviously just 1 persons opinion but I'd rather vent a bit and try and make folks aware then just leave which is what I think normally happens.
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Fudgums,
you guys are to be commended, hopefully this will breath new life into the AvA. I realize that different folks are going to have different idea's and that the very nature of a historical plane/vehicle set will create issues and occasional imbalance. At the same time with just a bit of common sense I do feel that this arena has a chance to be something special to a lot of folks besides me. I'm absolutely amazed at the difference icons have on ACM. I made the comment last night on country what a huge difference it makes for the 38 and cactus's comment back was "amen". You have a completely different feel to air combat thats hard to describe...here is a relatively short clip from last night that highlights the good, bad and ugly IMO.
My Logitech G940 lost connection and had to reset (which it does all to often, total piece of garbage) so thats the cause of the sudden hose of lead into the void and uncontrolled dive near the end. All the talk of "immersion" etc really makes sense once you dump the icons.
http://beachheadcrm.info/snaphook/lifeintheAvA.ahf (http://beachheadcrm.info/snaphook/lifeintheAvA.ahf)
You may need to cycle the icons once (check and uncheck the icon box) to turn them off...
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What is the CT? I don't think I've heard of it or been in there?
Combat Theatre. The previous name of the AvA.
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On the one hand I can understand, but I've never been one to consider "balance" and "fair play" when it comes to combat simulations of any kind. I've found myself on the bad end of situations like that in the AvA more times than I can count and no matter how many times it happens, it's always a thrill because I learn something every time and once in a while I come out on top or I get away. With the AvA settings, if there is a lot of action going on, situations change so fast it's more difficult to stay out of a situation like that until you're already committed to do something.
If you find that yourself in a situation like that again, say something tactfully on 200 and bring it to everyone's attention. Most of the regulars will police themselves and at least try to get the new people to comply. I've seen it happen.
Pfffft. Yeah, right.
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Pfffft. Yeah, right.
You got something intelligent to say SunBat?
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:rofl. :devil
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What he's trying to say is simple....BS on that. It's the typical excuse people use to justify their actions. Obviously I consciously chose to fly on the low #'d side. Instead of circling to alt and hanging on my side I flew out in search of the red guys. Thats about all I can do on my own to promote any kind of decent game play. Now once I reach "you" {and this is not aimed at you personally} the only people who can control your actions are each of you.
I'll gladly fly into a 1 on 2 or 3 repeatedly but if its simply an "all on 1" regardless of numbers or circumstance then why bother? For this to actually move forward in a constructive way its a set of individual choices, not a bunch of individual excuses...
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I thought the whole point of the AvA or the CT was to promote more realistic flying and situations.
What's unrealistic about piling on to make sure a disadvantaged enemy gets put down before he can kill one of your buddies?
Wiley.
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Don't mistake lack of talent for genius.
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Don't mistake lack of talent for genius.
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I thought the whole point of the AvA or the CT was to promote more realistic flying and situations.
What's unrealistic about piling on to make sure a disadvantaged enemy gets put down before he can kill one of your buddies?
Wiley.
So when the disadvantaged enemy decides not to fly another hop what do you do? Or when someone goes to the other side so you guys can fight and you gang him also? How about the fact that maybe your buddy was having a good time and you stopped his fun. I fly for one of the larger squads in the game. Our squad buffer is often so full in prime time it scrolls, yet all of em will leave me alone if they see me in a one on one. Why, because they know that I would rather lose a good fight then have the other guy picked off a pelt.
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*shrug* I never said it was right, I was saying that was the behavior. Something should really come up when one starts the game stating 'This is how you should fly.' Then we would all know what we're supposed to do to keep everybody happy.
Wiley.
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What he's trying to say is simple....BS on that. It's the typical excuse people use to justify their actions. Obviously I consciously chose to fly on the low #'d side. Instead of circling to alt and hanging on my side I flew out in search of the red guys. Thats about all I can do on my own to promote any kind of decent game play. Now once I reach "you" {and this is not aimed at you personally} the only people who can control your actions are each of you.
I'll gladly fly into a 1 on 2 or 3 repeatedly but if its simply an "all on 1" regardless of numbers or circumstance then why bother? For this to actually move forward in a constructive way its a set of individual choices, not a bunch of individual excuses...
Humble, if that is indeed what he was saying, it may be the "typical excuse" for most of the AH players but I'm not typical. I don't hesitate to jump into situations where the odds are stacked against me, unless I'm with a squad mate or two who don't share my sense of adventure. It's just what I do, without complaint. I don't disagree with you that people in a group should at least try and make an attempt to avoid jumping on one person all at once. And I do understand where repeated incidents of such situations is frustrating as I also get frustrated at times, but just like many such situations, it can be avoided on both sides of the line. Last night was somewhat unsual especially when several people decided to grab 262s, and the situation you found yourself in happened on both sides.
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius.
No offense Masherbrum but I'm guessing that means in your book that if a person doesn't 1v1 he lacks whatever talent people here consider themselves possessing in a virtual world. What about the person who chooses the 1 against 2 or more?
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No Icons? No thanks. EOM
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*shrug* I never said it was right, I was saying that was the behavior. Something should really come up when one starts the game stating 'This is how you should fly.' Then we would all know what we're supposed to do to keep everybody happy.
Wiley.
I can see how that might be useful for people who start this game with absolutely no previous game experience of any type, and who have zero concept of "fair play" or how this game, like any other, requires a "balance" between teams, and a "self-policing" of behavior (since we don't have referee's).
How would we word it, so that people who fit that description could understand what we meant?
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Don't mistake lack of talent for genius.
: salute Snap
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No Icons? No thanks. EOM
Thanks for letting us know, we'll be sure not to wait up for ya.
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How would we word it, so that people who fit that description could understand what we meant?
Well, we could put up every post from the forum about how people have been ganged, vulched, picked, HOed, warped, plug-pulled, had an uber plane flown against them where they lost, and all the rest of the standard issues of complaint. Have the people read through them before they can log into the online arenas. Then people would know how to fly to keep everybody happy, and people would be happy.
Wiley.
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What about the person who chooses the 1 against 2 or more?
Isn't that the crux of the issue? Almost every time I entered the AvA it was unbalanced to some degree. I always go to the low #'d side and so do others. I also recognize that certain AvA squads and/or particular players have a focus on a specific plane and fly the AvA to fight "their" plane in a historical context...great. But if you don't allow for those who will swim upstream at some point they just stop spawning. This is the lesson learned long ago in AW (before the days of WB's). If you beat the baby seals with compassion they often came back...if you clubbed them to death they didn't. The CT died because the concept of the "squad" got introduced and all of a sudden you had a quantum shift in the game dynamic.
For the AvA to survive it needs to protect its ecosystem...just that simple.
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Well, we could put up every post from the forum about how people have been ganged, vulched, picked, HOed, warped, plug-pulled, had an uber plane flown against them where they lost, and all the rest of the standard issues of complaint. Have the people read through them before they can log into the online arenas. Then people would know how to fly to keep everybody happy, and people would be happy.
Wiley.
Do you think they'd have a good grasp of basic game etiquette then? And could apply it to this game?
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What about the person who chooses the 1 against 2 or more?
Isn't that the crux of the issue? Almost every time I entered the AvA it was unbalanced to some degree. I always go to the low #'d side and so do others. I also recognize that certain AvA squads and/or particular players have a focus on a specific plane and fly the AvA to fight "their" plane in a historical context...great. But if you don't allow for those who will swim upstream at some point they just stop spawning. This is the lesson learned long ago in AW (before the days of WB's). If you beat the baby seals with compassion they often came back...if you clubbed them to death they didn't. The CT died because the concept of the "squad" got introduced and all of a sudden you had a quantum shift in the game dynamic.
For the AvA to survive it needs to protect its ecosystem...just that simple.
To some degree, a mindset of keeping the sides balanced exists among the AvA regulars. This needs to be encouraged and nurtured.
Often, I am just about to change sides to even out the numbers, and others beat me to it.
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I think the AvA is great. I had a good time for a while last night in the AvA. My last couple of sorties were my 38 vs 4+ 262s and 3 109/190s, it was time to leave. Some need to learn that in an arena with only a handful of people, you can't stomp your enemy to death and expect them to stay.
That being said, I saw several of the regulars switch to the low #'s side. I've also never been ganged that bad in the AvA before and won't hesitate to return next time I'm on.
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Cactus, I agree wholeheartedly. All in all it was a fun time with some great fights and reasonable balance...right up until it wasn't. The big challenge is really going to be how that exact scenario gets handled. Guys like you and me will hang in with no problems as long as we are having any measure of fun. When it gets bad enough to force us off its a sign of serious potential issues. The truth is we'll keep coming back...up to a point. I saw 30 or 40 really good sticks leave the CT because it was no longer worth the effort...hate to see it begin again.
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Mtnman- Sorry, I forget tone doesn't always come through in text. My point is, there's no way to legislate how people are going to fly. Gangbanging happens all the time, every day in the game, in all arenas. Complaining that people aren't flying the way a person wants them to is just not a profitable course of action. Until there's a game mechanic that turns killshooter on if you're the third or more person to take a swipe at a bandit, people are going to take that swipe at that bandit. If the reason is not found within the person that's doing it, there's no reason not to.
Humble- The root of the problem you're experiencing I think is exactly what you stated in one of your earlier posts.
there is going to be a strong preference for certain planes and/or sides by most of us some of the time.
I think that tendency is stronger than you give it credit for in people who want to fly in an AvA type arena. A lot of people seem to want to see how their plane of choice stacks up against people flying the opposite side's planes as opposed to their opposition being a mishmash of every fighter from the war.
Unfortunately, this assumes a world of guys that there just waiting to fly the opposing side's planes against you. That is not always, or even often the case.
There is a class of player that likes to fly them all, but I don't think they're even close to being the majority. Between that working against it, and the lack of icons weeding out a large majority of the playerbase, there just aren't that many people left looking for that kind of fight on both sides to keep it even.
Wiley.
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I believe we need to encourage players to keep an eye on the roster and voluntarily switch sides as necessary to keep the arena balanced and fair for everyone.
There are usually enough decent guys to do this I think.
As far as trying to convince people not to gang, I don't think you can, but the latter will make it harder for them to do so.
As far as no-icons weeding people out, there wasn't near as much going on in the arena before that setting was enabled.
As a draw, I think it is a net plus.
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People checking on a change or something new is always going to up the number briefly. (see WWI arenas)
The thing to watch for is how many stick with it after the shiny wears off.
I don't think it's a 'decent guy' thing necessarily, more of a 'decent guy that likes to fly both sides aircraft in an AvA scenario' that is the rarity.
Wiley.
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Just to counterpoint Wiley's point - gangbanging doesn't happen all the time. I was at a base, (having just had my backside shot off), upped and there were 2 a20's and a couple of other planes inbound. Didn't have the time to climb up to their alt, so concentrated on gaining a measure of e.
Humble was in one of the a20's (dunno who the rest were, getting old and my memory is shot!). At that stage, I was the only defender in the air, yet there was no ganging - got engaged, evaded and eventually killed a 190 - regained e and engaged an a20 - got my backside handed to me in short order.
That could have gone onto a very familiar 4 v 1 - yet it didn't - I had fun, hopefully they had fun and I kept reupping to try and kill a few of them.
Hard work when alt and e is against you, but - and an important but - I had a great time evading and trying to shoot straight. Numbers evened out eventually, but I had to log after that.
Point I'm trying to make, we are responsible for our conduct in arena's - irrespective of which one. We determine whether its fun or not. Do I expect to get ganged - hell yeah - some of the most fun fights I've been in were 8/9 v 1 or 2 of us - mostly I dont survive, sometimes I do. Do I appreciate the occasional 1 v 1, or 1 v 2 in the fight - yep. However, if its continually 9 v 1 or whatever, it stops becoming fun v. quickly so I'll move or log off - which reduces the numbers in the game, and leaves you with no one to fight.
ymmv,
Wurzel
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People checking on a change or something new is always going to up the number briefly. (see WWI arenas)
It's not all that new, enemy icons have been turned off since early March, and still seems to be invigorating the arena.
I often skip over my preferred plane in the AvA in favor of the low numbers side, all of my squad and plenty of others are also willing to do so.
If we can continue to encourage this type of behavior, we may be able to keep it good for everyone.
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All my point is, is that expecting that level of commitment to fairness out of the majority of the playerbase is just not a reasonable expectation. Sure, there are people who 'often skip over their preferred plane in favor of the low numbers side'. You are a minority. You should not expect the same out of your opponents. Getting uptight when they do not behave like you would is unreasonable.
Wurzel ran into a great situation where people let him do his thing. I'm glad he was able to enjoy it. There shouldn't be an expectation that upping under a CAP is going to result in anything otherthan a vulchfest.
Wiley.
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So tying your attitude into my original post...how much will you have with no one to shoot at?
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All my point is, is that expecting that level of commitment to fairness out of the majority of the playerbase is just not a reasonable expectation. Sure, there are people who 'often skip over their preferred plane in favor of the low numbers side'. You are a minority. You should not expect the same out of your opponents. Getting uptight when they do not behave like you would is unreasonable.
True, but we don't have to be a majority to have the desired effect.
Also balancing out that part of human nature is the desire to have enough people to shoot at, so I think there are more who will change sides for even numbers than you might think.
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Exactly Wiley - which is why I made the point that the players control the way the "fun" is made. Not having a dig at you, by any means.
Was expecting to get vulched to be honest, was nice not to be. Was expecting to be ganged as well, again, was nice not to be. Was much more fun trying to get a kill or 2 whilst under the cosh - and that was as a direct consequence of how Humble and the rest were playing their advantages.
This is how the players can determine how the arena's are. Do I expect it to change - nope, not particularly. Do I hope it could change, yep, but I'm not holding my breath.
Wurzel
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Just to counterpoint Wiley's point - gangbanging doesn't happen all the time. I was at a base, (having just had my backside shot off), upped and there were 2 a20's and a couple of other planes inbound. Didn't have the time to climb up to their alt, so concentrated on gaining a measure of e.
Humble was in one of the a20's (dunno who the rest were, getting old and my memory is shot!). At that stage, I was the only defender in the air, yet there was no ganging - got engaged, evaded and eventually killed a 190 - regained e and engaged an a20 - got my backside handed to me in short order.
That could have gone onto a very familiar 4 v 1 - yet it didn't - I had fun, hopefully they had fun and I kept reupping to try and kill a few of them.
Hard work when alt and e is against you, but - and an important but - I had a great time evading and trying to shoot straight. Numbers evened out eventually, but I had to log after that.
Point I'm trying to make, we are responsible for our conduct in arena's - irrespective of which one. We determine whether its fun or not. Do I expect to get ganged - hell yeah - some of the most fun fights I've been in were 8/9 v 1 or 2 of us - mostly I dont survive, sometimes I do. Do I appreciate the occasional 1 v 1, or 1 v 2 in the fight - yep. However, if its continually 9 v 1 or whatever, it stops becoming fun v. quickly so I'll move or log off - which reduces the numbers in the game, and leaves you with no one to fight.
ymmv,
Wurzel
Wurzel has the right of it..
The side with the numbers showed some class and DIDN'T gang and wurzel kept coming back, fun for all. Had all 4 jumped him the first time out what are the odds that he would have upped even a second time? Pretty slim I'm betting.
These are the same things that made it useless to fly in CT and early AvA as well. I havn't flown steady in there in a long time due to the same "MA Crap" infesting AvA. I go to the Mains because while its the same crap, there are more targets. I stop in AvA now and then, and at most I only get a flight or two before I'm discussed enough to move on.
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You got something intelligent to say SunBat?
On holidays I prefer not to exert too much effort and simply relax and point out unintellegent things that other people have said.
It's sorta the cyber equivalent of sitting on the front porch, fannin' myself, sippin' mint juleps and swattin' flies.
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I go to the Mains because while its the same crap, there are more targets. I stop in AvA now and then, and at most I only get a flight or two before I'm discussed enough to move on.
Ah well, to each his own.
Iv'e never seen anything happen in AvA that would make me choose the MA instead.
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Humble- Why do you assume I'm a gangbanger? I'm not defending it or saying I condone it, I'm just saying it happens and expecting anything less when the other side has the numbers to do so is pointless. It's expecting your opponents to put an artificial limitation on themselves for the sake of fair play in an online game.
Read that last sentence again, and let it sink in.
Wurzel- I didn't mean it as a dig at you either, <S>. Your last paragraph about sums up my feelings with the exception of replacing 'hope' with 'wish'. I don't think it's likely to change.
Jimson- I disagree. I would be willing to go as far as to say that the majority in the game AREN'T looking for an even fight.
Wiley.
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On holidays I prefer not to exert too much effort and simply relax and point out unintellegent things that other people have said.
It's sorta the cyber equivalent of sitting on the front porch, fannin' myself, sippin' mint juleps and swattin' flies.
That's special. The question still stands, especially after your wonderful insight. If you didn't quite understand the statement the dummy version is, my choices, my adventure, no one else to fault but myself when things don't work out the way I might want.
As for this 1337 cartoon ace pile-it world, there are no written rules as to how a person engages opponents, it's all opinions.
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Anybody that shoots humble down sucks....
Just ask him.
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That's special. The question still stands, especially after your wonderful insight. If you didn't quite understand the statement the dummy version is, my choices, my adventure, no one else to fault but myself when things don't work out the way I might want.
As for this 1337 cartoon ace pile-it world, there are no written rules as to how a person engages opponents, it's all opinions.
Sometimes, when there's a particularly annoying fly, I like to just barely swat him so I don't kill him just stun him. Then I pull his wings and legs off one by one, set him down and watch him wiggle around.
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Thanks for letting us know.
Been there, done that. Got the T-shirt :rock
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Sip
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Ahhhh....
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Anybody that shoots humble down sucks....
Just ask him.
lol....my very own peanut gallery. :D
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lol....my very own peanut gallery. :D
Who's Dawger?
ack-ack
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Who's Dawger?
ack-ack
The guy you can't beat in a P-38
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I got the chips.
Someone need to grab some brews.
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Its memorial day...who doesn't have the brewski's lined up?
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The guy you can't beat in a P-38
I'm sure you think so as you probably think you're an experten beyond all experten.
ack-ack
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I'm sure you think so as you probably think you're an experten beyond all experten.
ack-ack
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/poster34992553.jpg)
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Its memorial day...who doesn't have the brewski's lined up?
I gota drive to visit some family later tonight so I am not drinking (much) today.
But chips I do have.
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my sister got married the 29th we had a keg of sam adams :cheers:
but its gone :cry
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That's special. The question still stands, especially after your wonderful insight. If you didn't quite understand the statement the dummy version is, my choices, my adventure, no one else to fault but myself when things don't work out the way I might want.
As for this 1337 cartoon ace pile-it world, there are no written rules as to how a person engages opponents, it's all opinions.
Then allow others theirs and don't push yours
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Ah well, to each his own.
Iv'e never seen anything happen in AvA that would make me choose the MA instead.
Easy on Sunbat, he's good people. But twisted a bit, know what I mean?
Sunbat, haven't seen you in AvA in a good long while, why don't you stop in?
- oldman
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Easy on Sunbat, he's good people. But twisted a bit, know what I mean?
Sunbat, haven't seen you in AvA in a good long while, why don't you stop in?
- oldman
:rofl Ahhhh, I was just messing with Gyrene cuz I knew he'd take the bait but at the same time is big enough to take a little ribbin'.
I took about a 6 week break and just recently came back. I'll pop in there next time I'm on and check things out. Hopefully we can have us a few good fights. :salute Oldman
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:rofl Ahhhh, I was just messing with Gyrene cuz I knew he'd take the bait but at the same time is big enough to take a little ribbin'.
I took about a 6 week break and just recently came back. I'll pop in there next time I'm on and check things out. Hopefully we can have us a few good fights. :salute Oldman
:rofl Dangit...I smelled something fishy with this...
Sometimes, when there's a particularly annoying fly, I like to just barely swat him so I don't kill him just stun him. Then I pull his wings and legs off one by one, set him down and watch him wiggle around.
Thought it was just the tuna I had for lunch.
You mind signing this so I can hang it on my monitor?
(http://dansideas.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/hook-line-and-sinker.jpg)
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Humble I understand what you're saying. But so many people who play get most of their kills by ganging that if they didnt have that and had to go 1 on 1 all the time they'd likely play WoW. I've given up trying to persuade people to play different. Now I embrace the gang, do my best and try to take a few with me.
Between the horde, and pickers, good pilots flying great planes, and runners, nothing has changed really since I started back in 96, except the numbers. There are just more of these types than before, and running into people who like a good 1 on 1 in an MA is rare. I think I can think of 20 people who fit into this catagory off the top of my head. There are'nt that many.
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Lots of great 1 on 1s in AvA tonight. 38s vs 109G-6s. Good stuff!
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It's not all that new, enemy icons have been turned off since early March, and still seems to be invigorating the arena.
I often skip over my preferred plane in the AvA in favor of the low numbers side, all of my squad and plenty of others are also willing to do so.
If we can continue to encourage this type of behavior, we may be able to keep it good for everyone.
Hope it does work, and keeps people coming in....... but for those of us who have seen so many changes, it is real hard to accept that it is working and that it is better.....
The CT/ AvsA arena in the past had substantial numbers both when it was called CT and then again when it eventually overcame some issues after being named AvsA...... infact..... it was not until some squads came in and stayed did the numbers start to fall off....then most everyone thought the AvsA staff needed to do something or change things........ if this new "no icons" change can weather the storm and hold up for more than a year ( lets say April of 2011 ) without any major shifting in the current idea..... then I will say Good On Ya..AvsA...
but one should not think that only from March to May, that the change has "fixed" anything, really..... lets look at it next March or april, to make that determination....
do hope it works for the AvsA though....... even if I don't care for "no icons" myself.....
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Whether the AvA succeeds or not, you won't be able to point to one setting or another as the cause.
Right now, the no icons seems to interest a segment of the player base.
There are a lot of other variables.
The next version of AH could bring something new that either draws more people in or draws them out of the arena and into something else.
Who knows?
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There are a lot of other variables.
The next version of AH could bring something new that either draws more people in or draws them out of the arena and into something else.
Who knows?
yep, is easy to relate to this, for the AvsA saw a big decrease in numbers when Aces High switched to Aces High II back in '04....... eventually people started coming in or coming back, but then again it has always been a seesaw motion of up and down with the numbers...... dating back to the first major game play shift of the arena.....
and all the older long time players will always have those "rose colored" glasses they are trying to see through <grin>
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Humble I understand what you're saying. But so many people who play get most of their kills by ganging that if they didnt have that and had to go 1 on 1 all the time they'd likely play WoW. I've given up trying to persuade people to play different. Now I embrace the gang, do my best and try to take a few with me.
Between the horde, and pickers, good pilots flying great planes, and runners, nothing has changed really since I started back in 96, except the numbers. There are just more of these types than before, and running into people who like a good 1 on 1 in an MA is rare. I think I can think of 20 people who fit into this catagory off the top of my head. There are'nt that many.
Aw man, now I feel sad. I always love running into you though. One of these days I'll even get good enough to give you a real fight. I hope.
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yep, is easy to relate to this, for the AvsA saw a big decrease in numbers when Aces High switched to Aces High II back in '04....... eventually people started coming in or coming back, but then again it has always been a seesaw motion of up and down with the numbers...... dating back to the first major game play shift of the arena.....
and all the older long time players will always have those "rose colored" glasses they are trying to see through <grin>
Yep TC,
I try to keep an optimistic view for the future of the AvA (rose colored glasses and about time to get my eyes checked). Just before the intro of WWI, I had seen the largest bump in numbers in the Arena since..... well seemed like ever.
Humble's observations point to the good and bad "attitudes" (I prefer to call them split decisions) that determine whether or not the arena is a place that you would care enough to return to.
- Do I check the roster to see if I should try and balance the sides?
- Do I look for fair fights or look to gain the best advantage over opposition players first
- Do I check with countrymen engaged in battle before joining or do I take the open shot
- Do I care whether the opposition would care to return to the arena or do I not have vested interest in the arena
There are no rules in how one plays this game, just these types of decisions that determine what kind of game it becomes.
Ever since, I have known the staff in the AvA, they have made every attempt to level the playing field while maintaining a historical basis for choice of aircraft. Maybe 262s weren't the wisest choice to be included but it was verified they were in service in the area that this map represented and an attempt to reduce the number was made. Some good suggestions have been made as to how to better manage jets, so don't be surprised if the gang doesn't have an added twist the next time you visit (this is directed at all that have tried the arena in the past, and I hope that you do visit more and more often).
:salute
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Jets have always been a sore point.
Personally, I hate them. They unbalance the arena and make the game fairly boring. There are a few scenarios where they are appropriate and fun but mostly they have to be tightly controlled. But the same can be said of the Allied plane set towards the end of the war. The superiority of Allied aircraft coupled with the tendency of more players to fly allied has the axis side pretty hard pressed in any late war scenario. I've seen them log off many times in frustration.
What is really needed for an historical arena are a deeper tool chest for a setup designer. Tying aircraft types to side numbers or overall arena population and tying those particular types that tend to unbalance the arena to airfields far from the front would help keep the historic aircraft in the fight without killing off the fun.
That would require tools not available now but there is always hope.
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Dawger,
You are correct, the holes in planesets, and an accurate way of controlling the availability is something that the staff and development group pay a great deal of attention to. Having said that, most of the comments, have been on the positive side. I have to attribute that to the success of the staff in doing a great job. But the majority of the success, has come from the effort of the player base to share the sandbox with others.
When we talk about balance of Allied and Axis planes, that all depends on a number of circumstances. A faster plane equipped with 30mm cannon rounds it's pretty hard to convince some is the underdog.
What the no enemy icons in the arena has done however, has increased the need for visual cues in order to execute maneuvers that work best for your particular choice of ride. This is a new learning curve for some, and for others the adjustment may take longer or shorter.
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Dawger,
You are correct, the holes in planesets, and an accurate way of controlling the availability is something that the staff and development group pay a great deal of attention to. Having said that, most of the comments, have been on the positive side. I have to attribute that to the success of the staff in doing a great job. But the majority of the success, has come from the effort of the player base to share the sandbox with others.
When we talk about balance of Allied and Axis planes, that all depends on a number of circumstances. A faster plane equipped with 30mm cannon rounds it's pretty hard to convince some is the underdog.
What the no enemy icons in the arena has done however, has increased the need for visual cues in order to execute maneuvers that work best for your particular choice of ride. This is a new learning curve for some, and for others the adjustment may take longer or shorter.
My comments were not aimed at this particular setup. I didn't know they were even enabled until this thread popped up. It was more of a general anti-jet rant. The no icon AvA is why I'm here and the occasional jet isn't going to change that. I'm sure the jets were being flown from rear bases, which is about the best one could do with the tools available.
I was impressed that the setup this week was modified in response to some well thought out input and think this setup went from something I wasn't really fond of to something that was quite enjoyable. It apparently was fairly popular as well.
I'm even glad this thread happened because any publicity is generally good publicity. If folks are complaining about gang banging in the AvA it has to be seen as a positive development because it means there was a gang present.