Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: grumpy37 on January 20, 2011, 06:25:24 PM
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so i guess to keep myself from shooting my computer and complaining daily about getting picked by a skill less wing man ruining what i thought was a good 1v1 maybe i should join what seems to be the majority. Ill be honest working as a team to set up a single plane for an easy pick doesnt sound like its much fun or should it take much skill but seems to be the norm. I have no problem getting picked or ganged when i fly into a furball but when im all alone and either get jumped by 2 planes or while fighting a single guy and his buddy comes out of nowhere and picks me off cause his "wingman" was about to get his bellybutton handed to him just irritates me to no end. I know nothing about wingman tactics besides clearing someones 6 before he gets picked LOL anyone interested? i know what you just read sounds motivating but if i dont find something to make this game fun again ill have no choice but to hang it up.
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Grump if you and I are on at the same time and on the same side I'll wing with ya bro :D
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I have no problem getting picked or ganged when i fly into a furball but when im all alone and either get jumped by 2 planes or while fighting a single guy and his buddy comes out of nowhere and picks me off cause his "wingman" was about to get his bellybutton handed to him just irritates me to no end.
Yeah I know it sucks, but by the same token, when one is about to get shot down, one tends to appreciate someone coming in to save one's butt, so it kinda works both ways.
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eh, i think i view it differently. I have no problem getting shot down 1v1. if i let the guy get on my donut then he deserves the kill, not to be picked by my buddy right before. Just my opinion is all. I know i view the game differently then most
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you got it dicho, ill be your student... :D
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eh, i think i view it differently. I have no problem getting shot down 1v1. if i let the guy get on my donut then he deserves the kill, not to be picked by my buddy right before. Just my opinion is all. I know i view the game differently then most
You said in your original post you clear peoples six... So what's the difference. Where have you been flying anyway? I'm constantly killed trying to shoot a guy down and having his buddy come up and nail me. I've seen as many as four guys at once attacking me when I'm alone. Where is this nirvana you've been flying in? Tuesday night were you not along with your squadmates and another squad happily ganging and vultching at A19? Or was there some reason that was okay and whatever happened to you today wasn't? Seriously are you just having a bad day? Because what you're complaining about is the norm from what I've witnessed. I don't know how guys participating a game with individuals from all across the world flying airplanes hell bent on shooting each other down expect everyone to not shoot at them personally when they are not expecting it. I think you're a great guy Grumpy, but nobody owes you anything when it comes to pulling the trigger. :ahand
<S>
Don't know what that emoticon means but just had to use it.
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I have no problem getting picked or ganged when i fly into a furball but when im all alone and either get jumped by 2 planes or while fighting a single guy and his buddy comes out of nowhere and picks me off cause his "wingman" was about to get his bellybutton handed to him just irritates me to no end.
An age-old dispute, Grumpy, there's no solution. Join them or learn to live with them is the only answer.
- oldman
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You said in your original post you clear peoples six... So what's the difference. Where have you been flying anyway? I'm constantly killed trying to shoot a guy down and having his buddy come up and nail me. I've seen as many as four guys at once attacking me when I'm alone. Where is this nirvana you've been flying in? Tuesday night were you not along with your squadmates and another squad happily ganging and vultching at A19? Or was there some reason that was okay and whatever happened to you today wasn't? Seriously are you just having a bad day? Because what you're complaining about is the norm from what I've witnessed. I don't know how guys participating a game with individuals from all across the world flying airplanes hell bent on shooting each other down expect everyone to not shoot at them personally when they are not expecting it. I think you're a great guy Grumpy, but nobody owes you anything when it comes to pulling the trigger. :ahand
<S>
Don't know what that emoticon means but just had to use it.
all i can say is wow. i can tell you not one of us vulched anyone that i know of anyway. Like i said or maybe i didnt explain it correctly. Large numbers in any arena, as was the case the other night, or a furball situation i would say its fair game. when im the only player on for my chess piece and i get picked while engaged with someone i think i have every right to be pist and irritated. Maybe i should view it as i owned that guy and he is lucky his buddy saved him but im not arrogant like that. I clear peoples 6 when they are getting ganged up on or in a furball, I NEVER engage another player thats obviously in the middle of a 1v1 in this arena. I know its my problem to deal with and obviously im a minority in my thinking thats why I said maybe its time for me to hang it up for a bit, maybe for good. I sit down at my computer to have a good time not get more irritated then i already was. Ive tried brushing it off as just the game and its just not working.
:ahand i believe is the emoticon for getting your donut handed to you.....
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i know exactly what you're talkin about. it happens all the time to me. i die a lot. the p-38 is like a friggin magnet. but then sometimes, ya get a couple of peeps together, and it's totally different.
i was in a fight while flying a hurri1. went from a 3-1(i was the 1) to a 4-2, back down to a 3-1 as the guy that came to help augered immediatly after killing one of them. i shot down 2 of the other three, and the third ran away with his tail between his legs. :D
i'll be glad to fly with ya when i manage to get online.......just don't use me as bait. :devil
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Just to let you know I chase 38's just HOPING it's you bro :D
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Just to let you know I chase 38's just HOPING it's you bro :D
:rofl :rofl
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so i guess to keep myself from shooting my computer and complaining daily about getting picked by a skill less wing man ruining what i thought was a good 1v1 maybe i should join what seems to be the majority. Ill be honest working as a team to set up a single plane for an easy pick doesnt sound like its much fun or should it take much skill but seems to be the norm. I have no problem getting picked or ganged when i fly into a furball but when im all alone and either get jumped by 2 planes or while fighting a single guy and his buddy comes out of nowhere and picks me off cause his "wingman" was about to get his bellybutton handed to him just irritates me to no end. I know nothing about wingman tactics besides clearing someones 6 before he gets picked LOL anyone interested? i know what you just read sounds motivating but if i dont find something to make this game fun again ill have no choice but to hang it up.
Let's approach this from a true military angle & ask this question: How would you fix this if you could?
Maybe we could include, in the MOTD, a "chivalry" clause.
Here is pro-active way. That is to let anyone in the area know that you will take on anyone yourself! Now I know that seems very sarcastic, but seriously that is what you are asking for.
Why is it not any fun to work as a team? Why is 1v1 so important? Maybe what you can do is challenge yourself to stay alive by bugging out. After all, combat is about having the advantage.
I've gotta admit, I'm not very good at clearing someones six. As a matter fact, if it were real life, I would probably shoot the friendly down before I got the enemy shot down :lol So, when I get to actually help, it feels good. On the reverse side of the coin, I am grateful when someone clears my six.
So now back to the real question. How would you fix this?
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all i can say is wow. i can tell you not one of us vulched anyone that i know of anyway. Like i said or maybe i didnt explain it correctly. Large numbers in any arena, as was the case the other night, or a furball situation i would say its fair game. when im the only player on for my chess piece and i get picked while engaged with someone i think i have every right to be pist and irritated. Maybe i should view it as i owned that guy and he is lucky his buddy saved him but im not arrogant like that. I clear peoples 6 when they are getting ganged up on or in a furball, I NEVER engage another player thats obviously in the middle of a 1v1 in this arena. I know its my problem to deal with and obviously im a minority in my thinking thats why I said maybe its time for me to hang it up for a bit, maybe for good. I sit down at my computer to have a good time not get more irritated then i already was. Ive tried brushing it off as just the game and its just not working.
:ahand i believe is the emoticon for getting your donut handed to you.....
First off make sure you understand I'm not hammering on you. I'm just curious as to where some of you guys get the idea the place is special and everybody politely bows out of a shot if it's not the polite thing to do. If I fly around with that attitude it only takes one engagement to see my error in judgement. Seriously I have been lazy in merges the past few months expecting a nice gentlemanly contest of ACM only to have my lips ripped off in a ho. No more of that stupidity for me. The rules are simple up a plane and kill the other guy. You have no right to expect your opponents to do anything other than try to kill you in the quickest fashion possible. Expecting otherwise leads to frustration which in turn cost you enjoyment. The guy in the other plane is a human being. That means he's probably self centered egotistical and up to no good. Do yourself a favor and kill the bastage as quickly as possible. Because if you don't he or one of his friends is going to kill you. This really isn't real the skills and knowledge everybody brags about having are over rated. Try and go get a job or get laid using your Aces High skills as the basis for your worth to the other individual. Out of the 6 billion people on earth only a couple of thousand give a rat's rear end about AH. Even fewer than that that care about the AVA. So don't get mad get even kill the guy. :D By the way when you kill him enjoy the moment because it is a game and that goober is already up in a fresh new plane hunting your butt. :aok
<S> Grumpy play it and enjoy it.
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just outta curiousity?
is it hard to talk without your lips?
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so i guess to keep myself from shooting my computer and complaining daily about getting picked by a skill less wing man ruining what i thought was a good 1v1 maybe i should join what seems to be the majority. Ill be honest working as a team to set up a single plane for an easy pick doesnt sound like its much fun or should it take much skill but seems to be the norm. I have no problem getting picked or ganged when i fly into a furball but when im all alone and either get jumped by 2 planes or while fighting a single guy and his buddy comes out of nowhere and picks me off cause his "wingman" was about to get his bellybutton handed to him just irritates me to no end. I know nothing about wingman tactics besides clearing someones 6 before he gets picked LOL anyone interested? i know what you just read sounds motivating but if i dont find something to make this game fun again ill have no choice but to hang it up.
Come on grumpy, the only way to get a nice 1v1 is to invite someone to the DA and go at it. I do this all the time but I never expect a 1v1 in the AvA, MA, or anywhere else. I think your expectations are missed placed. To me, fun equals flying with my squad buddy's and kill everything, any way we can. Skill-less, I don't think so, just a different way of flying. Part of the group you were flying against today was the LD. This is how we roll. You can go to our website and read up on LD tactics. ( http://www.loose-deuce.net/?page=about ) If you like I would happy to go toe to toe with you in the DA. But in the AvA &MA, there will always be the "other" plane coming in and picking.
Respectfully,
~kc
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Aside from the "getting killed while on someones 6 conversation". I have noticed that the AvA is probably the best place to actually practice and refine squad wingman tactics. In frame 1 of the current FSO my squad scattered at first sight of enemy and we all died. I brought us to the AvA for that specific reason, and in frame 2 the only planes we lost were due to lack of fuel. That right there says something. I have no clue if it is the no icons setup or the environment, but i know something is working here. :aok
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SA, 2vs1 isnt that difficult, hell on a good day ive killed 5of5 attackin me, now thats not common, just one of those days I couldnt miss, if you fly to the biggest red dar by your self as much as possable, you will sharpen up your merge and SA, both of these are vital for this game, aim is also very important,ever since I came here in 04 ive attacked the hourd,my aim is horrible but because of the way ive flown I can keep track of many cons,on a guess Ill bet I can track 10 or more cons,this is only because of the way Ive always flown,dont worry about dieing,fly for the fight and you will find your self way happier,say to yourself im gonna take on as many red guys as I can and kill as many as I can,even if you dont get any you are sharpening up your skillz,before you know it you will have extra sharp SA,and no one will be able to"pick"you,I have a sayin"I aint happy unless im diein"trust me,you will no longer find aggravation in game youll want the hourds!Youll need the multi cons for that rush :-)
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Ahhhhh....wingman tactics.
Effective wing tactics makes you more survivable; pure and simple. There are several types of wingman tactics in AH. One is go out single ship, run into another friendly, and go against the horde. Another is two or more taking off from the same base and moseying out to the fight (commonly known as "same way, same day"). This is a luck of the draw method and akin to Forrest Gump's box of chocolotes; I.e. Ya never know what ya get.....not very effective and more reliant on luck. Another and infrequently seen tactic is a pair of guys or multiple pairs who have studied, practiced, employed tried and true tactical formation flying. Just as in the real world this is very effective and survivable. It's all a matter of personal preference on how you want to use your $14.95.
So, next time you're out single ship going after that single radar con, thinking "ooh, I'm gonna own this guy soon" and you're starting your conversion maneuver, remember, as Clint Eastwood once said "Do you feel lucky, Punk?"
Remember, where there's one, there's two, and where there's two, there's....well, you get the picture. :salute
Check Six! (and your soft under belly) :O
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well,
grumpy, before you start to complain you should ask yourself what went wrong.
On our first merge my squadmate drags you down pulled out a lot of E and set up a nice drag so i shot you down
on the second merge you came in higher then we were, it was a 2 vs 2 situation, but your "wingman" lost sight or maybe you just didn't talk to each other
you dove in and my wingman and i setted up a vertical bracket, and thats it, you starts to complain about getting picked, but you had an alt advantage against us at the beginning.
well, as i said yesterday, if you guys wanna have a 1vs1 AVA only arena, just declare it on the arena message and we LD will stay away
Aircombat in WW2 was never a 1 vs 1 combat, it was a many vs many! Pilots feared nothing more losing their wingman or sight of the group!
The real thrill is an organised many vs many fight like we do at the SDL
We LDs allways flys as a group, sometimes as elements, during combat we follows the double attack doctrine variant called loose deuce. We are all above average skilled fighter Pilots, we don't look at our overall Scores, we flying figther exclusive, and you only will find an LD pilot flying alone when there is just no other LD member online. So don't be too frustrated, you didn't lose against a group of gangbangers, you just lost against a Squadron which is based on wingman tactics (average online flying experience of LD pilots is 8 Years, a couple more than 15 years).
I don't mind to share some help, even yesterday with those complains you destroys my fun to fly at the AVA! Respecting other players and their way to play is the key point to have fun to fly over the years
to give you a better impression how we LDs work it out take a closer look here:
http://pics.loose-deuce.net/LD_Basic_Fighter_Maneuvering.pdf
Keypoint is the right timeing! To get it you should spend a lot of time with your wingman together!
I hope the doc might be a helping hand!
If you wanna know whats going on at our side during the combat watch this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjeCnIbWWlU&feature=related
listen to the comms, allways drag clear press six ....
give it a try and you gonna get a brand new game and will have your fun back!
<S>
dhyran
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Actually I see where Grumpy is coming from. It used to be an 'unwritten rule' in the AVA to leave 1 v 1 alone particularly if the arena is fairly low in population. The arena is evolving and growing which means that wingman tactics are going to become more and more important. Thus the reason that, with a few minor exceptions, if I find myself alone I'll actively look for a wingman to fly with.
That said I do not want this arena to turn into a mini MA where the horde rules, HO's are commonplace, and smack talking is okay. Granted I can cheerfully ignore this crud and still have a good time but I think the standards, such as they have been, make this place special.
We're all going to have to get a little meaner though.
Thus.. Grumpy if you see me on any night other than Tue and Thu come with me and let's kill em all :t
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just outta curiousity?
is it hard to talk without your lips?
Yes but smiling is a breeze. :aok
SA, 2vs1 isnt that difficult, hell on a good day ive killed 5of5 attackin me, now thats not common, just one of those days I couldnt miss, if you fly to the biggest red dar by your self as much as possable, you will sharpen up your merge and SA, both of these are vital for this game, aim is also very important,ever since I came here in 04 ive attacked the hourd,my aim is horrible but because of the way ive flown I can keep track of many cons,on a guess Ill bet I can track 10 or more cons,this is only because of the way Ive always flown,dont worry about dieing,fly for the fight and you will find your self way happier,say to yourself im gonna take on as many red guys as I can and kill as many as I can,even if you dont get any you are sharpening up your skillz,before you know it you will have extra sharp SA,and no one will be able to"pick"you,I have a sayin"I aint happy unless im diein"trust me,you will no longer find aggravation in game youll want the hourds!Youll need the multi cons for that rush :-)
One point you're missing though is there are no enemy icons in the AVA so there are no red guys so your not speaking to Grumpy from the same SA experiance. I understand Grumpy's frustration. He's a good stick and wipe the floor with me 8 times out of 10. The only point I'm trying to make is over the years the AVA has never been a place where there was no ganging hoing or vultching. People have promoted it that way and tried to think it was that way maybe. It's always been there as far back as 2001 when it was the CT. Every time I've told myself it was different in the AVA I'd find out different and usually the hard way. The best bet is to worry about your own flying because there's nothing you can do about how the other guy flys anyway.
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The most important aspect of a 2v1 is the 1 can no longer fight as if it was a 1v1.
Keep as much E as possible and don't bleed it by forcing a shot on your part.
Always assume that the wingman is about to get a guns solution on you and plan two steps ahead of that probability to have a plan to spoil his shot.
Watch your airspeed, alt and make coordinated turns. Step on that ball brother!
Fly your plane to it's advantages. If it's faster, disengage and come back with an advantage. If it holds E well, fly them til they choke. If it's a good turner, bleed their E til they are wallowing on the deck.
If you are serious about winning the engagement, never ever fight the fight on the terms of advantages that the opponents plane has over yours.
A 2v1 does not mean the fight is over. It means that you will feel much more satisfied when you are the last man standing.
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my only problem with wingman tactics is most of the time my squaddies aren't around and i fly solo. that makes it difficult at best for me. i tend to be a victim alot and it usually causes me to leave.
unfortunately new people that have never been in the AVA will also fall prey to this. kinda leaves a bad taste in their mouths.
when alot of people are in there, its fine and perfectly suited for those wingman tactics. when the numbers are down those tactics tend to drive new people away. just saying.
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Come on grumpy, the only way to get a nice 1v1 is to invite someone to the DA and go at it. I do this all the time but I never expect a 1v1 in the AvA, MA, or anywhere else. I think your expectations are missed placed. To me, fun equals flying with my squad buddy's and kill everything, any way we can. Skill-less, I don't think so, just a different way of flying. Part of the group you were flying against today was the LD. This is how we roll. You can go to our website and read up on LD tactics. ( http://www.loose-deuce.net/?page=about ) If you like I would happy to go toe to toe with you in the DA. But in the AvA &MA, there will always be the "other" plane coming in and picking.
Respectfully,
~kc
actually most of us in the ava will ask before coming in on your fight....and will stay out if asked to stay out. there are a few exceptiions, but not many..............
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my only problem with wingman tactics is most of the time my squaddies aren't around and i fly solo. that makes it difficult at best for me. i tend to be a victim alot and it usually causes me to leave.
unfortunately new people that have never been in the AVA will also fall prey to this. kinda leaves a bad taste in their mouths.
when alot of people are in there, its fine and perfectly suited for those wingman tactics. when the numbers are down those tactics tend to drive new people away. just saying.
I See it a more from another Side
Complaining about wingtactics Drives complete squads out of the Arena
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Aside from the "getting killed while on someones 6 conversation". I have noticed that the AvA is probably the best place to actually practice and refine squad wingman tactics. In frame 1 of the current FSO my squad scattered at first sight of enemy and we all died. I brought us to the AvA for that specific reason, and in frame 2 the only planes we lost were due to lack of fuel. That right there says something. I have no clue if it is the no icons setup or the environment, but i know something is working here. :aok
the "no icons" setup i think has a lot to do with it.
the last time i was on(sadly about a week and a half ago), there was a pretty nice running fight right on the deck. evenly matched numbers, and mostly 109f's and p-38g, p-40e's. you should've heard the radio. constant warnings, notices of "i'm with ya" as one would go for a con, pretty much unplanned teamwork.
what i mean by that, is that i don't think any of us went into that fight expecting warnings, help, etc......but yet we were all doing it. that wasn't the first time either.
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SA, 2vs1 isnt that difficult, hell on a good day ive killed 5of5 attackin me, now thats not common, just one of those days I couldnt miss, if you fly to the biggest red dar by your self as much as possable, you will sharpen up your merge and SA, both of these are vital for this game, aim is also very important,ever since I came here in 04 ive attacked the hourd,my aim is horrible but because of the way ive flown I can keep track of many cons,on a guess Ill bet I can track 10 or more cons,this is only because of the way Ive always flown,dont worry about dieing,fly for the fight and you will find your self way happier,say to yourself im gonna take on as many red guys as I can and kill as many as I can,even if you dont get any you are sharpening up your skillz,before you know it you will have extra sharp SA,and no one will be able to"pick"you,I have a sayin"I aint happy unless im diein"trust me,you will no longer find aggravation in game youll want the hourds!Youll need the multi cons for that rush :-)
try 2 v 1 without that big red SHOOT HERE banner. it gets real hard real fast.....and is massively fun.
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my only problem with wingman tactics is most of the time my squaddies aren't around and i fly solo. that makes it difficult at best for me. i tend to be a victim alot and it usually causes me to leave.
unfortunately new people that have never been in the AVA will also fall prey to this. kinda leaves a bad taste in their mouths.
when alot of people are in there, its fine and perfectly suited for those wingman tactics. when the numbers are down those tactics tend to drive new people away. just saying.
same offer that went to grumpy goes to you......
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somethign someone mentioned above....dhryan i think it was......he dragged grumpy down, and bled his e, setting him up for his wingman.,.....this is exactly why i never follow a con down, when i see em nose over. it's been done to me in the past, where i think i got him, and outta nowhere, i see tracers passin my canopy.....then whammo...tower....
if we merge at 5k, 10, whatever alt....he dives, i follow for a second,.....he keeps going, i go back up. he can come back to me if he wants to fight. :devil
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I See it a more from another Side
Complaining about wingtactics Drives complete squads out of the Arena
+1
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Cap~I realized after I posted he was actually talking about the AvA...duh........but ya ive done the no icon thing, remember "combat challenge"? I was BUDO :-) I got more kills then anyone on ether side.....15 I think, but ya no icons is a completly different beast....but you know, I would not change how I fly, just be cranking the neck even more...or should I say thumb ;-)
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Cap~I realized after I posted he was actually talking about the AvA...duh........but ya ive done the no icon thing, remember "combat challenge"? I was BUDO :-) I got more kills then anyone on ether side.....15 I think, but ya no icons is a completly different beast....but you know, I would not change how I fly, just be cranking the neck even more...or should I say thumb ;-)
you might.
i tend to fly a lot tighter on the con now, than i ever did before. once merged, i try to keep em within D800 or less. once they're past that, it's a lil harder to track em.
i never heard of combat challenge though......
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my only problem with wingman tactics is most of the time my squaddies aren't around and i fly solo. that makes it difficult at best for me. i tend to be a victim alot and it usually causes me to leave.
unfortunately new people that have never been in the AVA will also fall prey to this. kinda leaves a bad taste in their mouths.
when alot of people are in there, its fine and perfectly suited for those wingman tactics. when the numbers are down those tactics tend to drive new people away. just saying.
i should have had you write my post, wouldnt have sounded like such a whine..... This is exactly what i was trying to say. I dont have nor have ever had a true "wingman" I know nothing about wingman tactics except it gets my :ahand to me on a regular basis.
Im not trying to drive anyone out of the arena or to conform to my way of thinking trust me the AvA is still the best arena in the game and I want it to continue. Thats why i said i need to change my way of play i guess and conform to the norm so to speak. Maybe learning the wingman tactics will be a new challenge for me and thats what I need.
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Not finger pointing at anyone or telling anybody to think or feel like I do because, frankly, a lobotomy or major head trauma would be required for the normal person but here I go.
Being the simpleton I am I tend to think of it this way.
Low numbers say 10 or less and evenly matched I tend to fly 'nice' by this I mean cold guns merge, maneuver, and try to best the guy. Numbers of 10 or more or lopsided I wing up if I can and try to help my wingmate get the kill and not get killed. I tend to survive a lot more flying this way.
Squad challenges or really big numbers of 20 or more. Kill everything in red.
A lot of guys have put tons of effort into bringing people to this arena on a regular basis. I don't think I'd be going out on a limb by saying literally thousands of man hours both in game and out have been focused on making the arena more attractive and suddenly we're starting to see entire squads in here some nights and regular members of those squads on most nights.
As the arena evolves and continues to grow (hopefully) things such as 2 + v 1, picking, hoing, vultching, etc are bound to be bi products of that growth. It's just human nature and raging against it is tilting at windmills. I'd personally prefer that it's kept to a minimum unless a specific goal is trying to be met. You want to take a base? cool. Knock down the ack, flatten the town, THEN vultch and try to capture. Not that my preferences mean a hill of beans but that's my thought. I'd rather have somebody up with me putting up a fight than sitting on the tarmac in a twisted heap of metal. Hoing? I try to avoid it at all costs but when you add in lag and that millisecond between pulling the trigger for a deflection shot on your end and a HO on his that millisecond makes all the difference. Doesn't mean I feel good about it if I do it. Ganging? I'm guilty of being in a 4 v 1 every now and then. I try to avoid that and generally pull out unless I think I've got a shot.
But those are just my opinions such as they are. Regardless I'll be upping Sunday night with my big bag of nothing piloting skills, attempting to beat the snot out of the other squad, and laughing my arse off as usual.
<S>
I wish somebody in KS could road trip it down here so he could get an AH fix before he left that wonderful state. :D
Edit: Grump I didn't take it as a whine. Knowing a little about you you don't strike me as the whining type <S> . Offer still holds though. I'm a horrible wingman but I'll fly with you any day :D
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and conform to the norm so to speak.
don't drag me into this :cool:
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Low numbers say 10 or less and evenly matched I tend to fly 'nice' by this I mean cold guns merge, maneuver, and try to best the guy. Numbers of 10 or more or lopsided I wing up if I can and try to help my wingmate get the kill and not get killed. I tend to survive a lot more flying this way.
Squad challenges or really big numbers of 20 or more. Kill everything in red.
+1
Grump I didn't take your post as a whine and didn't mean to insinuate you were whining. I was just expressing my surprise at your surprise of activity I've see often in the AVA. For years people have been wanting to get more people in the AVA. Higher numbers mean a larger variety of of game styles.
<S>
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I know, guess i was just spoiled when it was smaller and more "controlled" if that makes any sense. I enjoy the hell out of the big numbers but also miss the 1v1 when only 2 or 3 guys are on.
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Cap~ combat challenge was a one night thing that happened in the SEA, and I believe that is why you guys now have no icons in the AvA. It was not to long after that, when AvA took on the no icons. Dich~man I would love to, sux my car is unregistered. How far are ya from Topeka?
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504 miles according to Google :aok
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damn thats a trip....1/3 of the way home. Close to it any way, its 1600+ miles back to NH.
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damn thats a trip....1/3 of the way home. Close to it any way, its 1600+ miles back to NH.
I know man but it's nice to consider regardless. Doors open any time if you and your family happen to wander through though :D
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I know, guess i was just spoiled when it was smaller and more "controlled" if that makes any sense. I enjoy the hell out of the big numbers but also miss the 1v1 when only 2 or 3 guys are on.
Grumpy,
As you know the small numbers scenario happens a majority of the time. The great discussion generated in this thread about tactical formation flying, I.e. Wingman tactics, indicates that many are interested in flying tactically but don't know how to do it effectively. It takes some dedicated effort to learn the basics and even more effort practicing to get the flow and timing down. Once the basics are down pat, it's very rewarding to work in a tactical pair. This is a skill that isn't learned by "winging" it, but requires reading and applying the basics of tactical flying with someone who has it down.
Jappa and I have been flying tactically for nearly four years. We are a pair every time and always tactically mutually supporting each other, to include formation take offs and landings. Through consistent practice, we are at a point where we know how each other is going to react in any situation. Case in point. Recently, I had to reload my operating system and because of incorrect drivers (I think) my in game vox and Teamspeak is inop. So, we have been flying tactually, comm out, with little negative effect. So, if you are saddling up for that sweet guns shot on one of us, check six, the other is very near and closing. :bolt:
Bottom line, it takes desire to learn it and dedication to perfect it and we are more than willing to help anyone that is interested. Again, it's how each of us wants to use our $14.95 a month.
At you service, Gents! :salute
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Dich~what can I say.......your a good friggin dude thats for sure, I look forward to the day I return to fly with ya.....you wouldnt want my family there its huge.....6 kids and me and the wife.....lol thats a lotta grub in one day.....you should see my food bills wow. Allthough I must say I do have some awesome kids, very well behaved and respectfull! im very proud of them :-)
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trust me I have room bro and thanks <S>
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<<S>>
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I know, guess i was just spoiled when it was smaller and more "controlled" if that makes any sense. I enjoy the hell out of the big numbers but also miss the 1v1 when only 2 or 3 guys are on.
I guess it's something to get used to. I had the expectation that when I went to the AvA that I was going to have some good 1v1 or 2v1 fights without ho's and vultches and picks. And I guess that's why I get so aggravated now because that is gone for the most part. Had some good fights last night but for the most part it was just like the MA with no icons. Had a higher pony run from my A5 drag me down to his friends instead of fight. Then once I started fighting his friends he picks me to death even though it was 4v1. Then got gulches at least 5 times on takeoff. Vulched twice on landing. And at the end it was 5 allied planes circling the axis field vs myself only. Not only did they barely let me get off the ground but they all attacked at once. What fun is that???? I'll gladly fight you thats what im here for. But damn at least make it a fight. I know whine has been recorded. And it seems lime I'm whining a lot lately even to myself. But to me something has changed in the game play. Or maybe I'm just old and grumpy too.
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Tex,
Again I wouldn't call what you're saying a whine. The incident you are speaking of was a base capture attempt. When a base capture attempt is going on just about anything goes. I was with you last night during this time. Unfortunatly I was up way past my bedtime and as this happened my 52 year old eyes could hardly pick out the dots anymore. I needed to land and log off. A couple of us had been battling some of the face shooters and a JG-54 guy for over and hour as they were attempting to knock down the base defenses at 79. I assume for a capture atttempt. They had been there in M3s M8s M16s and M4s as well as a B-25 and B-26 attack earlier. Towards the end of the night they changed tactics from ground to air coming in in with heavy P-38s and had some guys in light fighters supressing the air defenses around the area. So it wasn't your usual AVA type flying. I don't think they were being underhanded they were just trying to achieve a goal by gaining A79. It always seems to get a little chippy around base capture attempts.
<S>
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I guess it's something to get used to. I had the expectation that when I went to the AvA that I was going to have some good 1v1 or 2v1 fights without ho's and vultches and picks. And I guess that's why I get so aggravated now because that is gone for the most part. Had some good fights last night but for the most part it was just like the MA with no icons. Had a higher pony run from my A5 drag me down to his friends instead of fight. Then once I started fighting his friends he picks me to death even though it was 4v1. Then got gulches at least 5 times on takeoff. Vulched twice on landing. And at the end it was 5 allied planes circling the axis field vs myself only. Not only did they barely let me get off the ground but they all attacked at once. What fun is that???? I'll gladly fight you thats what im here for. But damn at least make it a fight. I know whine has been recorded. And it seems lime I'm whining a lot lately even to myself. But to me something has changed in the game play. Or maybe I'm just old and grumpy too.
It seems that when the MA squads come in, the unskilled cheap shots come along with them. Although it's good to have higher numbers, the cheap shots seem to be a by product and mind set that most of us regulars came to the AvA to avoid and enjoy the more pure ACM atmosphere. It just doesn't demonstrate any real skill level to drive straight at someones prop spinner and turn the gun on vs using some basic BFM and maneuver to an advantage. Vulching? Yeah, base capture gets down to the nitty gritty. But, waiting a tad for a guy to get gear up and some airspeed allows him to present a challenge. If one has minimal to no BFM skills, then by all means, vulch away.
You are very worthy adversary, Texican and I always look forward to stepping into the phone booth with you and pulling out the knifes. Your comments aren't a whine. Just a good commentary on not so fine art of cheap shots. :aok
I do have to say though, that Jappa loves a good 1 v 3 or 4 and I'm constantly scolding him and telling him to stop picking on all those guys. :D
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From the AvA website under FAQ's.
3. Fly with a wing man whenever possible. Solid formation actually plays a role in no icons. You want your friends positioned so that you can easily tell who and where they are and in a manner that the blind spot at six o'clock is covered visually. My squadron has flown a lot of no icon and sloppy formation work always leads to trouble especially if it is so sloppy some of the friends drift outside of friendly icon range. When your formation gets this big you can't be sure of the identity of the dots you see and it plays havoc with tactics.
Also a nice picture posted on the AvA website, looks like ....... OMG ....... wing tactics.
http://photobucket.com/albums/qq209/Soulyss/AvA/kill3.jpg
But seriously, I would like to fly the AvA more, if there is a code of conduct associated with flying AvA, please post it in the MOD so I don't login and wreck your fun. If I'm asked not to HO, I don't HO. If I'm asked not to jump into an ongoing fight, say so, I'll stay away unless I'm asked for help. Complaining on 200 after a fight leaves a bad taste in my mouth. No offense intended and really, none taken, I just want to have fun too.
~kc
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kc
As I said on p2 of this thread the arena is evolving especially with the influx of squad based flying over the last few months (which I'm very happy to see.. There's been a culture of the cool kids don't ho, vultch, pick, ram, or gang, for years but, as Shifty said right behind me, that doesn't mean those things didn't happen. For the most part the people that always engaged in that kind of behavior were considered tards by the regulars. Grumpy is, in my opinion, a very respectable and upstanding regular and I understand some of his frustration.
As the arena evolves the way people play will do so as well. The only person I can control is me and I'll continue to try to fly based on my own personal belief in what's 'right' and what's 'wrong'. Unless it's a scheduled event then the gloves come off and you should be SCA... well Nerv... nope that doesn't work. Hmmmmm.. bemused would probably fit the bill. Although occasionally I get lucky and fly somebody into a tree.
From my own point of view it boils down to something very very simple. I fly and act the way I am as a person. If I wouldn't want it done to me (eg HO, vultch, or pick) then I try not to do it. Fortunately I've got some truly fine people trying to help me NOT have to do any of the above to get kills and, for the first time in 5 years association with the game I'm actually working to remember the teachings.
All of that stuff said at the end of the day I have to answer to myself. Did I behave in such a way that I would respect? Did I treat other players the way I would want to be treated? Did I, as a hard core supporter of the AVA arena, enhance the experience the other players both friend and foe? If I can honestly answer all three with a 'yes' it was a good day imho.
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But seriously, I would like to fly the AvA more, if there is a code of conduct associated with flying AvA, please post it in the MOD so I don't login and wreck your fun. If I'm asked not to HO, I don't HO. If I'm asked not to jump into an ongoing fight, say so, I'll stay away unless I'm asked for help.
~kc
The main thing is to remember we don't have the huge numbers that the MA's do. Some of you guys are such studs that you can really put a beat down on other players. After Iv'e been killed for the tenth time by the same guy even I am tempted to log sometimes.
Just treat it like your own arena that you are trying to get others to come and play in.
Maybe just don't be quite as ruthless as you can be in the MA with a never ending supply of players.
If you have a serious numbers advantage in a particular area maybe just send one or two guys in to engage while the rest observe and watch for more enemy to enter the area.
Ho's and vultches are the most complained about behavior in all arenas. So don't vultch. It's not necessary, if you are really trying to take a base or something I guess that's different but put yourself in anothers shoes. If you can't even take off before getting smashed what fun is that for them?
Ho's are never necessary, just avoid them and try to set up for a different shot.
Just try to fly for the good of the arena rather than your own ego.
If we can get it built up to where we can always have 10 guys flying wingman tactics against 20 other guys then we've got something.
So go ahead and fly wingman but ease off a little and don't use every advantage you have to constantly and brutally cream the heck out of the opposition, just because you can.
It's your arena. You want to have people in it to play with. Why would you want people to not have fun and never come back?
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we'll adapt, and keep on having fun. that's the whole idea.
the important thing is that we have a core group of some of the friggin best guys in the game. we know what we have, and we know what we can have if we keep going.
tex......as vor 1-1's........i think if you see any of us regulars in there, and want that, simply ask. you'll get it. i love the 1-1's, but i also love those "quick to get to" furballs where we're dodging the trees as much as we're dodging each other.
the night you mentioned getting vulched, i think there was a "capture the flag" type of competition going on. unfortunatly, there's gonna be vulching when that's happening. on normal nights, you'll rarely find anyone vulching or picking.
i had a friggin GREAT fight with badshot(that's where my last story came from) in which i think there was anotrher enemy in the area(i'd have to watch the film again to be sure), and he did not interfere. i dunno if badshot asked him to stay out, or what......but the point is that he did, and it equaled a white knuckle drag out 38 vs 109 fight. he did however come in at me as soon as i managed to finally shoot the 109 down, but at least he waited.
keep comin in dude. this place grows on ya. kinda like a pinkish/blackish lemon smelling fungus. :devil :aok
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and isn't
'HAVING FUN'
Isn't that the reason we play this game?
I'd seriously get bored if it was easy.
Score? In the AVA? who CARES?
It's about the mutual respect between players, the fun, and the fight, that (in my opinion), makes the arena greatness.
Sure we're going to occasionally get some people who have no self control. But I'll take 96% cool and hard fights any day of the week :cool:
Laverne... still hunting..hehehehehehehehe
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now you guys are all about ho ing ganging ram and other stuff
I just wanna go back to the fight where this thread starts, It wasn't a ram, it wasn't a HO, it wasn' ganging, It was a classic flown vertical bracket, i announcesd it on our private TS3
"now he is dead" just 5 seconds before, the second guy lost sight and rtb or was fighting elsewhere
After a good fight i give often a Salute and i like the gentle way to play. But i don't like bad sportsmanship, i don't like whines on ch 200, and the only reason why is being shot down? thats a bad behavior as well, I don't like to offend people on ch 200! i love good teamplay, its not ganging, its great timeing combined with good flown ACMs, you have to spend a lot of time flying with your squadmates to reach and acceptable teamplay
@jimson you can't fight double attack with just 80%, you go 100% or you better stop flying, there is nothing else between, its like doing sports, you go for it for 100% or you leave it
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one of the keys if you've got a couple on ya, is to get down low. REAL low. then forget the gentle maneuvers that don't bleed "E". crank that plane around like you're on crack. make it harder for them to see ya. 8 outta 10 times you'll manage to make at least ONE of em lose sight of ya, even if just for a few seconds. oftentimes, that's all ya need, to even things out.
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The majority flies honorably in the AVA. The AVA crowed, for the most part tends to ask before they jump in or shoulder shoot.
Most from what I have experienced in the AVA are extremely skilled Sim pilots.
With that comes wing tactics at times. When in trouble,some pepole ask for help, other guys offer to help a teamate in need.
The arena by far delivers a WWII flight Sim experience that is superior to any arena AH has to offer at this point.
The Axis V allied plane sets, historically accurate set ups, and the NO ICON experience to name only a few.Thees things just makes sense.
Spits fighting spits, and 1942 AC fighting 1945 AC is plane goofy. Glowing red and green icons set to outrageous distances so every player in 5 miles jumps on one bandit is kiddish as well. AVA is very much unlike the Air quake mentality of the MA.
So yes there are a few MA types that pop in to the AVA and vulch ho etc. But I see that the ones that come back again and again to the AvA adjust their playing style to a more honorable one once they see that dirty flying and poor sportsmanship are frowned upon in the AVA.
By default the AVA attacks a better level of game play when compared to other AH areans. Its not a perfect world, and the AvA cant be all things to all pepole but it is sure a refreshing change from the status quo.
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Let me make this clear now. I'm not in this for points. If I'm being attacked, and you are flying my colors, you may help. DON'T ASK..JUST HELP. Even if its to just buzz the other guy and make him aware that you're there. Have only been here a couple weeks and yhis has to be the hardest game I've ever played..which is a good thind as I doubt I will ever become bored.
Carry on! :salute
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Dhyran, I wasn't referring to anyone specifically.
Of course you are going to play to win. Who doesn't?
However, if you are flying double attack it would be reasonable to send one element in on a single bandit while the rest of the flights fly cover.
Your squad is very very good. Many of you have been flying together since WB and if I recall you only allow membership to those with a certain kill ratio, all well and good but if you use every advantage you have in talent, numbers, AC whatever, all you will be doing is repeatedly clubbing everyone else to death.
If one super squad becomes so dominate in an arena that has a tenuous hold on population to where the other side can only be immediately killed every time they up it won't be much of a challenge for you and will be no chance for the others.
If you owned this arena and wanted it to be successful, that you would like to have people want to come play and that most of those people won't have the talent that you do, how would you approach your own play style so that this would be an attractive enough venue to lure others in?
That is the way to think about it because we all want the arena to be more successful more than we care about our individual or our squad success.
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:bhead who is making these? I love them.......
I think a few have taken this way personally and if so im sorry. this was more me venting my frustration a bit and pointing out something that i know others have talked about as well. Got way more positive feedback then I thought i would, you can tell the difference between most of the players in this arena and the MA just by reading our threads. I think the point has been made by all different sides and I dont want this to turn people against each other or keep players from coming to the arena. I was simply voicing my opinion not trying to set new rules. You all pay your $15 a month and have the right to play how you want but this is no different then the real world. Your actions, good or bad depending on point of view, will always get a reaction.
One thing Ive learned from this thread is that with so many different views of how the game should be played there will never be a "perfect arena" because there are to many opinions on what the perfect arena is.
I think from now on, and im not trying to be arrogant, when i get beat up on in a 2v1 that feels they need to use their ubber wingman tactics to shoot my lone plane down im just gonna smile and feel special cause they felt it would take 2 of them to shoot my 1 cartoon plane down. :salute
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I think from now on, and im not trying to be arrogant, when i get beat up on in a 2v1 that feels they need to use their ubber wingman tactics to shoot my lone plane down im just gonna smile and feel special cause they felt it would take 2 of them to shoot my 1 cartoon plane down. :salute
There ya go, finally the point of this thread. GRUMPY IS SPECIAL :rofl
:salute sir
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.
I think from now on, and im not trying to be arrogant, when i get beat up on in a 2v1 that feels they need to use their ubber wingman tactics to shoot my lone plane down im just gonna smile and feel special cause they felt it would take 2 of them to shoot my 1 cartoon plane down. :salute
i've been looking at it this way for awhile now.
now if only i could get good enough that you needed help to get me too.
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:bhead who is making these? I love them.......
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I think from now on, and im not trying to be arrogant, when i get beat up on in a 2v1 that feels they need to use their ubber wingman tactics to shoot my lone plane down im just gonna smile and feel special cause they felt it would take 2 of them to shoot my 1 cartoon plane down. :salute
well, as i wrote above, it starts as an 2 vs 2 but for me it looks like the second con turns away and rtb. Its good when you give it a smile thats much more better instead of these whines on the CH
I learned to leave you alone, you don't want to compete, you wanna beat new players in a 1 vs 1, good hunting in an empty arena
I'll spend my time somewhere else, there's enough to do :)
:salute
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well, as i wrote above, it starts as an 2 vs 2 but for me it looks like the second con turns away and rtb. Its good when you give it a smile, thats much more better instead of these whines on the CH
I learned to leave you alone, you don't want to compete, you wanna beat new players in a 1 vs 1, good hunting in an empty arena
I'll spend my time somewhere else, there's enough to do :)
:salute
I think you missed the point unfortunatlly. I get my :ahand to me daily by very formidable oponents in 1v1, 2v1, 3v1 and so on. Im sorry you feel this way but by reading this thread I see im not alone in my feeling. Good luck to you sir and anytime you wanna shed your wingman and test your personal skills let me know.
I just reread my OP and I think my point, or complaint depending on how you view it, specificaly talks about a 1v1 situation, not a group or a furball or a full arena of 40 players.
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I think you missed the point unfortunatlly. I get my :ahand to me daily by very formidable oponents in 1v1, 2v1, 3v1 and so on. Im sorry you feel this way but by reading this thread I see im not alone in my feeling. Good luck to you sir and anytime you wanna shed your wingman and test your personal skills let me know.
I just reread my OP and I think my point, or complaint depending on how you view it, specificaly talks about a 1v1 situation, not a group or a furball or a full arena of 40 players.
i got your point, and i aceppt each ones point of views, i just don't like whines on the CH thats all. when i am shot down i exactly know why and all the time i know how it happend and what i can do to avoid it next time. but i would never start to complain on an open ch about the opponent! Sometimes the opponent is just better on his manouvers, sometime i do stupid stuff, or call it " i fly crap" whetever! but it happend, you been shotdownand you shot down others, just no deal. its great fun, thats why we are all here for
when i see a fight on the deck i often ask, "need help?", but i don't ask my wingman if we wanna fight a con, its only a question about how we set up the opening. If we lose, its allright, if we win its also nice.
I fly to rtb! to rtb with my wingman and squadmates, thats what counts for me. Every player has his own goals and playstyles. I know you like to go for a 1vs1, its allright. I like the no icon stuff like all of you here but we only have to accept the difference of each own target ones wants to go for
cheers
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:salute
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To be clear, I never expect 1v1 duels in this arena. That's not what the arena is for, but I've been known not to engage when I see a fight going on. I may stay close and see if another bandit enters or if the friendly loses I may enter the fight then.
When our squad is flying squad missions we do fly in support of each other and I guess that is what Dhyran is talking about.
Some of the small things I do here to create a friendlier environment is to avoid taking Ho shot's, do not vultch, try not to gang up too much on single bandits and sometimes if I am chasing a damaged bandit close to his base and it is apparent that he is trying to land, I'll give up the easy kill and let him land.
Just small courtesies to help make it a better experience for all.
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The majority flies honorably in the AVA. The AVA crowed, for the most part tends to ask before they jump in or shoulder shoot.
Most from what I have experienced in the AVA are extremely skilled Sim pilots.
With that comes wing tactics at times. When in trouble,some pepole ask for help, other guys offer to help a teamate in need.
The arena by far delivers a WWII flight Sim experience that is superior to any arena AH has to offer at this point.
The Axis V allied plane sets, historically accurate set ups, and the NO ICON experience to name only a few.Thees things just makes sense.
Spits fighting spits, and 1942 AC fighting 1945 AC is plane goofy. Glowing red and green icons set to outrageous distances so every player in 5 miles jumps on one bandit is kiddish as well. AVA is very much unlike the Air quake mentality of the MA.
So yes there are a few MA types that pop in to the AVA and vulch ho etc. But I see that the ones that come back again and again to the AvA adjust their playing style to a more honorable one once they see that dirty flying and poor sportsmanship are frowned upon in the AVA.
By default the AVA attacks a better level of game play when compared to other AH areans. Its not a perfect world, and the AvA cant be all things to all pepole but it is sure a refreshing change from the status quo.
Nice Post ! I had a recent chance to get a few flights in the AvsA, and did not have any problems with the other side ganging..... their was one fight where I did have a 2nd and 3rd con come in right as I was finishing the particular dogfight I was in, but they were not their to dogpile me in no sense of the word...
I myself had to log quiet quickly due to my current pain threshold in my hands and arms, or I would have stayed to keep on fighting...... I didn't even have the chance to tell em all I was leaving :(
I think NrRaven was there that day along with Tree and some others.....
to give you a better impression how we LDs work it out take a closer look here:
http://pics.loose-deuce.net/LD_Basic_Fighter_Maneuvering.pdf
Keypoint is the right timeing! To get it you should spend a lot of time with your wingman together!
I hope the doc might be a helping hand!
<S>
dhyran
dyhran,
nice little pdf tutorial you posted a link to, may I suggest you edit it with a "References" or "Research from" notation at the end to show which parts came from what resources to make it more validated :aok
it is a nice lil PDF, almost looks like a power point presentation going by the way it is layed out and size / orientation of the page
hope to get backto the AvsA soon
ya'll have fun :cheers:
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For the record if you ever see me whine on 200 or on this board you have earned yourself the right to punch me in the back of the head and I'll hold still for it.
1 v I don't care how many. I'll just smile and get another plane.
I'm really glad VF17 is making it's presence known in the arena. Yall fly tactically and I appreciate the heck out of that. Environment evolving keeps things fresh.
I see a lot of gripes about the game becoming stale. Not here especially with the infusion of new folks. Used to be you could go out solo and get in a 1 v 1 while the rest of the reds stayed away. Now you can't so you better get better and sharper quick or you're going to eat dirt.
I like it :t Or perhaps I'm just fond of dirt brownies. Either way it's all good
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to give you a better impression how we LDs work it out take a closer look here:
http://pics.loose-deuce.net/LD_Basic_Fighter_Maneuvering.pdf
Keypoint is the right timeing! To get it you should spend a lot of time with your wingman together!
I hope the doc might be a helping hand!
<S>
dhyran
Great post and BFM document! :aok. Very good reference for tactical flying and employment. You are spot on about it taking time to practice and get the timing down. The learning curve is steep at first but tac formation flying becomes second nature after a while. :salute.
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dyhran,
nice little pdf tutorial you posted a link to, may I suggest you edit it with a "References" or "Research from" notation at the end to show which parts came from what resources to make it more validated :aok
it is a nice lil PDF, almost looks like a power point presentation going by the way it is layed out and size / orientation of the page
hope to get backto the AvsA soon
ya'll have fun :cheers:
well, this one was created for internal use, but with this posting i want to share it a bit, nothing more
You as a trainer have seen that a lot of tactical thought are from Robert L. Shaws "Fighter Combat" . This one was used as a Standard for us WB Trainers back in times
I am working on a many vs many actual, also for internal LD use only so i didn't put any references into it, maybe i should
If some of you will train a bit more the wingman aspects, the SDL is the right place to be, a great place you will find out if your squad got the right timing or not.
Quick fights, lot of adrenaline and tons of good fun
<S>
dhyran
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Correct we all have our own way we enjoy the sim..
Ever train with lead wights on your ankles or an extra huge back pack on?
That's kinda how I look at dog fights in simms. I actually enjoy charging into 3-4 bad guys allone when i want to hone up. Hell i get the crap blown outta myself, but man do I learn allot. Often times you can end up taking 3 of the 4 out, if you play your cards right and have a bit of luck on your side.
What a great way to learn, just yell, CHarrrge AND GO FOR IT!!
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just to let you in on a little secret, although technically we (LD) fly in wings, during many vs many, every pilot is every pilots wing man. It' pure chaos, but when it comes together it's a thing of beauty....
~kc
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I'veheard this too many times before. Whining because a squad uses tactics and are good at it. Frankly if you die, it's your fault. You probably break one of the cardinal rules, lost sight or sa, or you were too slow.
Is winging up with somebody as bad as flying a spit16 all the time? I doubt it, the squad 'loose deuce' did NOT invent loose deuce tactics. It was used in the war by all sides.those that didn't died.
I'll leave you all with this. ' one man alone is a liability. A two ship section is an asset.'
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the axis guys were using wingman tactic very effectively last night. i'd drop into a fight on one, then find one or two behind me. i did the same to some axis guys. the fights were/are a blast
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An age old adage in fighters; "Lose sight, lose fight". If flying single ship, you will always lose sight at some point in the fight. With a wingman and flying effective, coordinated tactical formation, the odds of losing sight are significantly reduced.
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sorry Puma but you are incorrect saying flying solo youll lose sight......with the no icons of AvA yes its harder to track a con, but one guy can track quite easily.......if this game was real life I could understand the importance of the wingmanin but its a game......no one really dies.....im a "lone wolf" type, and very much enjoy the challenge of fighting against the hourdlings....and get a kick outta those that are so afraid to have there cartoon pilot die.....haha
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sorry Puma but you are incorrect saying flying solo youll lose sight......with the no icons of AvA yes its harder to track a con, but one guy can track quite easily.......if this game was real life I could understand the importance of the wingmanin but its a game......no one really dies.....im a "lone wolf" type, and very much enjoy the challenge of fighting against the hourdlings....and get a kick outta those that are so afraid to have there cartoon pilot die.....haha
Nope, you are the one that is wrong, not puma.
Nobody can see through the belly. There are many pilots who know this and use it to their advantage.
I used to do a lot of training and my squad mates learned that I knew how to hide. My CO always says "if you can't see Dawger then he is at your low six about to pull the trigger"
Wingman tactics are just as effective in the game as real life.
You only THINK you can see everything. Low six o'clock is the perfect spot to hide from folks who think they can see everything.
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you'll lose sight if you are not practicing your outside the cockpit "SA" thoroughly..... also if you are fighting more than one opponent at the same time and do not keep them both in the same hemisphere
if you are fighting just 1 opponent or are keeping them both in the same hemisphere while fighting 2 opponents and you are keeping on top of your "SA" outside the cockpit ( your surroundings ) then you are very likely to not lose sight....
it all depends on how one flys their cartoon plane. so both of them are correct & both are wrong
edit: I agree wingman tactics work just as well in game (if not Better with the right 2 winging ) as they do in Real Life
and yes, one that knows what to do can hide from his opponent and keep hidden if he flys smartly and stays aware
hope this helps
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when i get into multi-con fights in there, i'll try to lock on one. i'll note where others are at that time. i listen for them. i listen to the radio.......i especially get my head on a harder swivel if the con in front suddenly goes into the vertical, or goes into gentler maneuvers.
if i have to, i'll break off, and acquire a different target. if a friendly needs help, i do. if i see a friendly coming my way, i'll try to set up someone for him.
it's tough as all hell in the ava.......in a different way than it is in the other arenas. it's a new/different challenge.
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Dawger- sorry but you obviously read what u want out of my post,I said in the AvA it is a bit harder to keep track...but in the mains...it so easy to keep track is rediculous. ive been lone wolfing it for years, and havnt lost a fight due to losing track of nme since probably tour 54 my second one here....he said a lone wolf will lose track.....I said they wont.....and anyone who lone wolfs it for a period of time will easily keep track of a number of cons, try sneaking up on me...youll find it quite difficult guarantee it. now again this is in the mains, in AvA its a bit differant obviously, I never disagreed that wingman tactics make it easier of course it does.....but unlike many here, I prefer a bit of difficulty in my game, so I avoid the green guys as much as possable, and many have found its almost impossable to sneak up on me, no matter where your trying to attack from.
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sorry Puma but you are incorrect saying flying solo youll lose sight......with the no icons of AvA yes its harder to track a con, but one guy can track quite easily.......if this game was real life I could understand the importance of the wingmanin but its a game......no one really dies.....im a "lone wolf" type, and very much enjoy the challenge of fighting against the hourdlings....and get a kick outta those that are so afraid to have there cartoon pilot die.....haha
No, Ink, I am not incorrect. If you think you can keep track of everyone around you, well, disappointment is on the way. This of course assumes that you fly your cartoon plane from inside and don't use the "out of plane" view option or some other game trick (or is it called a cheat?) If this is the case, then, you aren't really flying but, observing from a far.
I really don't need for you to reveal that this is a game and people don't really die. That has no bearing on the reality of tactics, visual lookout, and situational awareness (SA). In the AvA no icon environment, if you have convinced your cartoon self that you are visually tracking all the red opponents that don't have the "HERE I AM COME SHOOT ME" banner tagging along with them, well, you've sure missed a lot. But, by all means keep thinking that way.
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lol did you not read were I stated in the AvA its a bit differant???? I guess your reading skills are not so hot...........lol dee da dee
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lol did you not read were I stated in the AvA its a bit differant???? I guess your reading skills are not so hot...........lol dee da dee
Let's see now...reading skills. We are in the AvA forum and most of us are discussing AvA issues. There is a reason I chose to comment in this forum vs the others and thus made my "Lose sight, lose fight" comment. Now it seems some of the other guys were able to use their reading skills and understand exactly what I said and meant. It appears you are the one with reading skills problems. We'll discuss your ability to focus on the matter at hand at a later time.
Now read this...we are in the AvA forum. I don't care about how you or anyone else flies in the other arenas (or as a matter of fact, this one either).
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Just let him tell you how good he is, agree with him and maybe he'll just go away.
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Just let him tell you how good he is, agree with him and maybe he'll just go away.
Yeah, Bug, it's apparent that he is the best cartoon ace in the game. :salute
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He's as good as any of you.
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:headscratch:
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Just let him tell you how good he is, agree with him and maybe he'll just go away.
actually, i'd think he'd be a good addition to the arena. :aok
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He's as good as any of you.
Yeah, he told us.
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actually, i'd think he'd be a good addition to the arena. :aok
How's that, Cap? It seems counter productive to encourage pointless antagonism. :salute
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How's that, Cap? Not trying to start an argument, just curios. :salute
no problem.........i understand.
from what i can tell, he's a pretty straightforward/tell-it-like he sees it kinda guy. doesn't seem to troll, or fish,..,,,,,just says what he thinks. that is somethig to be admired in my opinion.
i don't think he'd ever bs us about anything in there either. i almost think you guys got off on the wrong foot. so switch feet, and try again. :devil :bolt:
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How's that, Cap? Not trying to start an argument, just curios. :salute
let me answer that one..... he brings a good hearted fight to the mix.....
ya'll really shouldn't argue over your difference of opinions...... heck, I posted in my reply above that I thought both you Puma, and ink, were both right in what ya'll originally posted, but wrong just the same....
neither of you can tell the other what each of you are capable of doing in each of your own cartoon planes...... if you was able to do so, you would both be the same person... <grin>
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let me answer that one..... he brings a good hearted fight to the mix.....
ya'll really shouldn't argue over your difference of opinions...... heck, I posted in my reply above that I thought both you Puma, and ink, were both right in what ya'll originally posted, but wrong just the same....
neither of you can tell the other what each of you are capable of doing in each of your own cartoon planes...... if you was able to do so, you would both be the same person... <grin>
i dunno why, but your final statement makes me think of this......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYlJH81dSiw
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i dunno why, but your final statement makes me think of this......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYlJH81dSiw
ROFL... there ya go
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let me answer that one..... he brings a good hearted fight to the mix.....
ya'll really shouldn't argue over your difference of opinions...... heck, I posted in my reply above that I thought both you Puma, and ink, were both right in what ya'll originally posted, but wrong just the same....
neither of you can tell the other what each of you are capable of doing in each of your own cartoon planes...... if you was able to do so, you would both be the same person... <grin>
Oh, don't get me wrong. My intention is to contribute to a better AvA environment. I'll be the first to back anyone's right to spend $14.95 how they want. I enjoy the AvA and the ability to "fly" in a near real world tactical environment. But, the lame response to my "Lose sight, Lose fight" quote shows a lack knowledge and even less ability to simply keep an open mind and consider another's opinion without taking cheap shots. :salute
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Let's kick him out of the sandbox.
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It is going to take different styles of play to make the arena into something that would compete with the 3 country arenas. Ink's style sounds like it would gel with most anybody that I currently know that flies the arena, if there were low numbers.
Puma's style is well suited to be challenging to AvA squads and team oriented tasks. I personally, am the most gratified when I am engaged in a huge furball with lots of cooperation on both sides with everyone staying engaged.
Will I taunt a player who slides away from main action to keep to themselves, yes. Is that person, wrong for spending their 14.95 to use the AvA to test Dueling skills, no.
Until, we reach the 200 player cap for the arena, we have plenty of room for JUST ABOUT anyone.
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Ink is obviously wrong and can't admit it.
If that doesn't make him fit in on an internet chat board about an internet game, nothing will.
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lol I am on my phone and have no clue as to Where in the BBS I may find myself......:-P IT does not show on phone.......I made it a point to say in AvA arena its a bit differant did I not? show me where I said I was the best pilot please, ive been in these skies since tour 52 and I am very much self aware, I alway study how I fly to become the best I can be, I know my SA is top notch period.....my aim on the other hand not so much, my merge is also very good, im I boasting when I say that? no just a fact, I have flown with the no icons its quite fun, check out the SEA stats page and look up "Combat challange" youll see a name for top kills on both sides "BUDO" yours truly ;-) you took my origanal post the wrong way......hopefully not this one, because its a PITA hitting these small damn keys......
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Well said, Chilli! :aok. As Bubba said, "Can't we all just get along?"
And to quote a really smart guy that we all know, the Skuzzinator, "Nothing to see here, move along".
This thread will self destruct in 3....2....1......Pffftttttt! :bolt:
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surprise!!! :devil
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Actually knowing both Ink and Puma I'd be willing to bet if yall crossed cartoon swords with each other you'd come away with a lot of mutual respect. Sometimes attempting to vocalize your approach to the game doesn't translate very well until you've actually seen the other player in action. How about we table this 'discussion' till Ink gets back in the air? Hopefully sooner rather than later.
Oh wait I can vocalize my flying 'style' easily. Take an overweight duck, tape one wing to it's body, break the other one, throw it in the air. That fits :D
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Actually knowing both Ink and Puma I'd be willing to bet if yall crossed cartoon swords with each other you'd come away with a lot of mutual respect. Sometimes attempting to vocalize your approach to the game doesn't translate very well until you've actually seen the other player in action. How about we table this 'discussion' till Ink gets back in the air? Hopefully sooner rather than later.
Oh wait I can vocalize my flying 'style' easily. Take an overweight duck, tape one wing to it's body, break the other one, throw it in the air. That fits :D
why weren't ya flyin that way last night?
:devil
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even a blind squirrel and all :D
although I do apologize for being the leader in the conga line.
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Well said, Chilli! :aok. As Bubba said, "Can't we all just get along?"
And to quote a really smart guy that we all know, the Skuzzinator, "Nothing to see here, move along".
This thread will self destruct in 3....2....1......Pffftttttt! :bolt:
:bolt:
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:bolt:
O NOESS!!!!!
IT LIVES ON STILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:x :x :x :banana: :airplane: :joystick:
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(http://thenoviceisapprentice.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/young_frankenstein1.jpg)
I AM FRANKENSTEIN!!!!!
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Having sight of your enemy is over rated
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Having sight of your enemy is over rated
that's true. I never see him before I'm shot down.
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(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTHB1VHNRbOYGO1Svk5Y5LypGwy4ZCOaWR8FV209L4FIVQUBltB)
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that's true. I never see him before I'm shot down.
i almost always see them just ebfore they shoot me down.....right on my 6
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Cap-lol thats what I was thinking.....youll see me visit the AvA once I return, but I do very much enjoy the Main late war arena's, you have convinced me to go visit the AvA though :-)
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TBH I cannot stand the Mains anymore. I haven’t spent more than 15 mins there in the last year. The gameplay is horrible, stagnant and the base taking mechanic so repetitive I want to puke. That mechanic fuels the crappy fights and fps feel of the mains, I sure wish they would come out with something new. If not for the AvA and the efforts of the staff I probably wouldn’t have a subscription now.
Cheers to those that make it happen :salute
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jappa-I have never participated in the war aspect of the mains, so that has no barring on my game, but I love fighting the hourd so the mains are perfect for me :-) but I can see where your coming from.
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Cap-lol thats what I was thinking.....youll see me visit the AvA once I return, but I do very much enjoy the Main late war arena's, you have convinced me to go visit the AvA though :-)
just give yourself time to get used to the environment in there. it is quite different without the icons. it's not that it actually harder thqn the mains.......it's just a different set of skills is all.
then there's the immersion.......when you lose sight, you're swinging your virtual head like a crack addict running from the police trying to spot the con before he gets ya.
when you do make it in, feel free to ask any of us, and we'll be glad to help ya out however we can.
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TBH I cannot stand the Mains anymore. I haven’t spent more than 15 mins there in the last year. The gameplay is horrible, stagnant and the base taking mechanic so repetitive I want to puke. That mechanic fuels the crappy fights and fps feel of the mains, I sure wish they would come out with something new. If not for the AvA and the efforts of the staff I probably wouldn’t have a subscription now.
Cheers to those that make it happen :salute
i've not visited the mains in at least 2 tours.
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i've not visited the mains in at least 2 tours.
what classifies as a tour?
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what classifies as a tour?
1 month. i think the tours generally start on the 1st wed. of each month. i think it was well before christmas that i visited here, and was almost instantly hooked.
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Actually Cap, I think it's [usually] the first weekday of the month - when Skuzzy's not too hungover to push the reset button. :D