Help and Support Forums => All things VR => Topic started by: oboe on October 02, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
Title: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: oboe on October 02, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
Very interesting to see side-by-side comparison of these headsets:
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Vulcan on October 02, 2020, 03:36:58 PM
Right now the Quest 2 cannot operate in full resolution via Link. There is an update due in November to allow this.
So that comparison really shows Oculus 1 res.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: finnster on October 04, 2020, 08:56:24 PM
The Pimax 8kx looks as good as the G2, and has a much wider field of view-which I think is really nice in a flight sim. That said. I really like what I've read about the G2 recently. They've done some good work there for sure!
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Vulcan on October 06, 2020, 08:02:38 PM
I don't think he covers the CPU impact the Quest 2 has as well.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Owlblink on October 07, 2020, 03:12:47 AM
:salute
Just came back to AH after maybe a two year hiatus (might be more, not sure). I used to fly VR with the original HTC vive and bow I use the Valve Index. I’m pretty impressed with it over all.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: SpinDoc1 on October 11, 2020, 11:31:54 AM
That was a really cool video! I fly on a Quest (original) via Link and it's quite amazing. Text is readable in the cockpits, though it begins to blur if you back your head away from the center view.
All-in-all, I can't fly AH without VR now. I try, and it's just...not the same.
Question for the VR followers here: when will we begin to see really measurable field-of-view improvements? One of the issues I have with existing kits is that they rely heavily on forward vision, but don't offer a ton of peripheral view.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: finnster on October 20, 2020, 09:14:51 PM
what do you consider 'measurable'? THe quest has about a 90 horizontal FOV. I think the Valve index does about 120, and the pimax headsets range from the Artisan at 140 horizontal through the 5 and 8 series at 170 horizontal. The Star VR1 does around 200 I think, but it's a limited sale item, and hasn't got great reviews from my acquaintances who have managed to get a hold of one. IF you can get one, it's about $3000.00 US. I have a Pimax 8kx, and once you get it dialed in, it's pretty amazing. It's not cheap either. Unfortunately. The Artisan is a good bet at around $499 US and prices go up from there. There are issues with wider FOV... it appears to be much harder to create a lens system that works right out of the box for most consumers. OTOH, even my old oculus rift took some tweaking. Further, for many games, it's really not needed and the Reverb G2 will do very well. For flight and driving sims tho', there's no substitute for wider FOV. cheers finnster
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Eagler on October 21, 2020, 06:47:14 AM
With the way HT has implemented VR in AH3 with using hat views along with head turning, wide FOV is not as critical here as compared to IL2 or DCS where VR views are extremely limited in the name of "realism".
Eagler
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Vulcan on October 21, 2020, 02:49:47 PM
At a maximum human binocular fov is 120 degrees. Anything outside that is monocular. Your acute FOV is about 6 degrees.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: finnster on October 22, 2020, 10:32:30 PM
In real life, your view outside that narrow range of acuity is mostly motion detection- I like the wide POV of the Pimax for that reason. Since I'm not very good in AH, I need all the SA I can get- and with a wider FOV I seem to be able to avoid getting surprised more often when a second or third guy piles on me. I still get killed, but hopefully as I gain more familiarity with the aircraft models and get more skilled at the edge of the envelope I'll do a bit better. In the meantime, I'll take as wide an FOV as I can get. On my oculus rift, the game was really blurry, I couldn't read the instruments, and I felt like I was looking out through a pair of scuba goggles. It was still fun, but higher res and a wider FOV makes the experience worlds better. I do need a better video card tho'. My nvidia 1080 just can't handle the demands of the Pimax 8kx. I've got the resolution of the game set to about 1080x800 or something like that, with most in game details turned way down. Hopefully the next gen cards will actually be available before Christmas! Cheers
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 23, 2020, 12:11:16 AM
With the way HT has implemented VR in AH3 with using hat views along with head turning, wide FOV is not as critical here as compared to IL2 or DCS where VR views are extremely limited in the name of "realism".
Eagler
:aok Not sure how often you "jump in DCS"...they changed some things to help spotting bad guys. Its still not as good as we have it here, but you can pick up DOTS better now :aok Makes it a bit more "tolerable" of the sore Neck Muscles, now that you can see cons? :rofl
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Vulcan on October 23, 2020, 04:16:04 PM
On my oculus rift, the game was really blurry, I couldn't read the instruments, and I felt like I was looking out through a pair of scuba goggles. It was still fun, but higher res and a wider FOV makes the experience worlds better.
You probably need glasses (or prescription lenses). The Rift has never been blurry, resolution is lower compared to the current gen - but lower resolution does not equal blurry.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: finnster on October 23, 2020, 09:46:46 PM
Funny that I don't need them for my Pimax then isn't it? It was still fun, but the cockpit gauges were unreadable. This shows pretty much how it looked. This was using oculus Mirror- I think the view in the headset was slightly brighter and a tad clearer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_F5SfMWvTA&t=38s DCS was a little better, but not much. Mind you, I have a very narrow IPD, and the Oculus Rift apparently didn't accommodate that too well. I certainly enjoyed it tho'- it was pretty cool for its day.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 24, 2020, 03:58:12 PM
Funny that I don't need them for my Pimax then isn't it? It was still fun, but the cockpit gauges were unreadable. This shows pretty much how it looked. This was using oculus Mirror- I think the view in the headset was slightly brighter and a tad clearer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_F5SfMWvTA&t=38s DCS was a little better, but not much. Mind you, I have a very narrow IPD, and the Oculus Rift apparently didn't accommodate that too well. I certainly enjoyed it tho'- it was pretty cool for its day.
Rift "one"/CV1? Yes even with glasses the "screendoor" blurred some. The RiftS with prescription was clear. I probably go with a different make, after these quit. I hate facebook :furious
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Vulcan on October 24, 2020, 04:16:08 PM
I still use my CV1, it doesn't blur at all. It may pixelate and you get screendoor, some people even tried adding lenses to blur the screendoor. I dunno what you guys are doing but mine is perfectly sharp. Or maybe you're confusing blur with pixelation?
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 24, 2020, 04:46:27 PM
I still use my CV1, it doesn't blur at all. It may pixelate and you get screendoor, some people even tried adding lenses to blur the screendoor. I dunno what you guys are doing but mine is perfectly sharp. Or maybe you're confusing blur with pixelation?
Probably...ritf1 isnt as clear as RiftS...what ever the issue. I have no major issues,its just more noticeable :aok
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: finnster on October 24, 2020, 10:16:11 PM
Well, there's definitely screen door effect. Maybe I needed to change my aces high setup a bit. I played with the oculus in several games, and it was ok. But fine print that I couldn't read in it, is legible in the Pimax- but that's what five years of technology improvement does. I enjoyed the rift a lot, but after using the Pimax, I couldn't go back to that small field of view. Of course, with my nvidia 1080, I have to play at a low resolution to get 35 fps in the 8Kx's native mode. The gauges are still very readable but not nearly as nice as at the highest resolution. It looks like we'll have several great upgrade paths for GPU's from Nvidia and AMD next month. Looking forward to that. Cheers
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: SpinDoc1 on October 29, 2020, 01:09:47 PM
Oculus Quest (v1), things are very readable in VR. I'm actually really impressed (though to be fair, my expectations were low from the outset).
Watching that video, love the idea of the Reverb G2, but still looking to see headsets that have a wider peripheral vision. Will really add to the immersion factor!
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Gman on November 13, 2020, 02:12:48 PM
My Reverb G2 arrived today. I'll be messing around with AH offline with it a bit and report back what I think, so far though, it's quite an improvement over the Gen1 Reverb. I'm very impressed in fact, the quality of the unit, the sound is the best of any VR HMD I've had (pretty much all of them since the Rift, don't go back as far as Vulcan, hah), IPD adjustment = good times too. The picture improvement is better than expected IMO. Still waiting for an AMD 5950x, 10900k/3090 right now, I still have a 2080ti I'm going to test it with as well.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: oboe on November 13, 2020, 02:22:59 PM
Oculus Quest (v1), things are very readable in VR. I'm actually really impressed (though to be fair, my expectations were low from the outset).
Watching that video, love the idea of the Reverb G2, but still looking to see headsets that have a wider peripheral vision. Will really add to the immersion factor!
I have a G1, and also looking fwd to sets with wider FOV. Immersion isn’t a problem for me with the G1 however, I just imagine I’m wearing flying goggles, which I can imagine restricted some peripheral view.
One fantastic thing about VR is the scale; when you’re in a P-38 and look out across the wing you get a sense of how big the aircraft is. Also, all the other planes appear closer. When a P-51 flew by on climbout the other day, I was amazed at the detail I could see in that aircraft and its skin.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Eagler on November 14, 2020, 06:21:23 AM
Glad to hear Gman
Looking forward to receiving mine sometime this month.
Did you get another email from them stating it shipped?
Can you hookup more than one vr headset to computer at the same time?
Eagler
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: atlau on November 15, 2020, 09:12:39 AM
Gman are you expecting the 2080ti to be insufficient to power the G2?
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Gman on November 16, 2020, 07:04:11 PM
I wouldn't say the 2080ti is insufficient, it's just that in another sim I play it's a game of inches regarding performance, and I want the very fastest hardware I can throw at it, ie the 3090 and 5950xAMD cpu (once it gets here). For AH3 I'm sure the 2080ti will suffice, and I'll try it shortly to be sure.
I haven't tried the G2 with my remaining 2080ti yet, I'll do it tomorrow and compare it to the 3090.
Eagler, do you mean can you have another type of HMD installed on the same system? The only other HMD I have left atm is my first gen Reverbs, sold the Index and Rift Ss off. I haven't tried to go back to the Reverb gen 1 yet either, but from the docs it says it should work fine. I'd expect the Index would as well, the Rift however, I'm not sure there wouldn't be any conflicts between the Oculus software and WMR.
I got my G2 from PC-Canada Eagler, for some reason Canada got the pre orders first before the USA and other countries. They sent me emails on the 10th saying it shipped, and I got it on Friday after a delay due to a blizzard snow storm in my area.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Eagler on November 21, 2020, 08:11:12 AM
Email today says the G2 should arrive Tuesday - almost 3 months to the day it was pre ordered.
Eagler
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Gman on November 21, 2020, 09:58:03 PM
That's pretty good actually IMO, especially considering the delays they did in order to ensure the improvements they kept incorporating in the final production unit all worked ok.
I think you'll be impressed with it, that's one thing I'd bet on.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: haggerty on November 23, 2020, 10:26:45 AM
I was playing Aces High just fine with the original Rift and a 1060 3gb. I just bought a Quest 2 but I havent tried it yet on Aces High, I got it for my kids. I didnt enjoy the combat with the Rift, but flying around was really cool. Now I have a 1060 6gb and a Vega 56 to try it with. I dont expect issues with either.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: SpinDoc1 on November 23, 2020, 11:44:00 AM
I was playing Aces High just fine with the original Rift and a 1060 3gb. I just bought a Quest 2 but I havent tried it yet on Aces High, I got it for my kids. I didnt enjoy the combat with the Rift, but flying around was really cool. Now I have a 1060 6gb and a Vega 56 to try it with. I dont expect issues with either.
You didn't enjoy combat with the Rift? Why not? I fly a Quest now, I love being able to peek around the engine cowl for snapshots, and my overall SA is soooo much higher now, without having to constantly hit the hat or view keys!
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: haggerty on November 23, 2020, 12:03:55 PM
You didn't enjoy combat with the Rift? Why not? I fly a Quest now, I love being able to peek around the engine cowl for snapshots, and my overall SA is soooo much higher now, without having to constantly hit the hat or view keys!
With properly setup views I found that my situational awareness was so much better just using hat keys on the joystick. Distances seemed very different as well. The straw for me was I just couldn't hit anyone even if it looked like perfectly aligned shots. Its also so much easier to use the keyboard for things when you aren't wearing your monitor.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Eagler on November 23, 2020, 12:08:35 PM
As vr improves my guess is you'll be at a huge disadvantage if you don't have it...
IMO you are not already...
It took about a week to get used to it but now I hit converage shots many think I cheat somehow to make
Eagler
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: haggerty on November 23, 2020, 12:20:26 PM
I don't know, its so easy to see everywhere around you with hat, and quicker than using your head. I have two buttons on my joystick I use to combine the hat with down and up, in other games I can see VR being more useful, but in AH I can see everywhere so easy instantly. My other issue with VR that I didnt mention is that my eyes get tired very quickly when using it. Not once when I'm dogfighting without VR do I think that I wish my SA could be better, I'd break my neck trying to keep up with what is possible via keys.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: FLS on November 23, 2020, 12:58:51 PM
Hat views vs VR is a false choice. You can use both.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Eagler on November 23, 2020, 01:52:20 PM
Hat views vs VR is a false choice. You can use both.
That's how I use it. It makes a huge difference for us stiff old guys. :old: I love dogfighting in VR, and after taking a bit to get used to it, I think it helped my gunnery.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: oboe on November 25, 2020, 08:24:25 AM
My sense of where my plane is in 3D space improved alot, but my gunnery accuracy went down.
The only hat switch views I use to help with VR are Rear and FWD-UP. Took some getting use to but it sure helps.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Gman on November 26, 2020, 08:00:18 AM
Which is what makes AH3 VR superior to ALL other WW2 VR flight sims I have tried.
In the name of realism they take out hat views and require neck breaking impossible 6 views ruining the game IMO
Eagler
This x 1000. I should link the two threads I participated in on ED's forums trying to get this idea some momentum in DCS. When HT first implemented the hat view system into VR, I posted that day (maybe the day after) about how important a feature this is, as VR does NOT allow one to use their peripheral vision, something that anyone who is a pilot knows you use (or anyone else for that matter) to look past your 3 to 9 line, so that you don't have to crank your neck and point it nearly directly in the direction you want to see - like VR works at the moment. You should have seen the howling about how "wrong" I was about VR and this issue, yet for some reason none of the detractors wanted to fly pvp against me to prove it, them in their VR units they claim were "perfectly realistic", and me using trackIR/hat view (which will smoke a VR player every time as it's so much faster and easier to maintain visuals of what your opponent is doing post merge behind you).
I used every VR unit offered since the Rift Kit, all but the Xtal, right up to the G2 right now, and fly 4 games and 1 racing sim, so don't get me wrong, I really like VR, but other than AH3, it's a massive disadvantage vs TrackIR/hat views in terms of fighting other human players in PVP, due to the above issue. HT figured out how to have it both ways.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Vulcan on November 26, 2020, 05:30:20 PM
Before the Oculus came out, I used to use VR with AH with a scaled view, like 90:120 (look 90 degrees to left/right gives you a view at 120 degrees). That worked nicely.
IIRC (it's been a while, it was in AH2 days), I used facetracknoir which took various tracker sources (including Rift DK1 and DK2) and turned them into an emulated trackIR output.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Drano on November 27, 2020, 09:00:26 AM
This x 1000. I should link the two threads I participated in on ED's forums trying to get this idea some momentum in DCS. When HT first implemented the hat view system into VR, I posted that day (maybe the day after) about how important a feature this is, as VR does NOT allow one to use their peripheral vision, something that anyone who is a pilot knows you use (or anyone else for that matter) to look past your 3 to 9 line, so that you don't have to crank your neck and point it nearly directly in the direction you want to see - like VR works at the moment. You should have seen the howling about how "wrong" I was about VR and this issue, yet for some reason none of the detractors wanted to fly pvp against me to prove it, them in their VR units they claim were "perfectly realistic", and me using trackIR/hat view (which will smoke a VR player every time as it's so much faster and easier to maintain visuals of what your opponent is doing post merge behind you).
I used every VR unit offered since the Rift Kit, all but the Xtal, right up to the G2 right now, and fly 4 games and 1 racing sim, so don't get me wrong, I really like VR, but other than AH3, it's a massive disadvantage vs TrackIR/hat views in terms of fighting other human players in PVP, due to the above issue. HT figured out how to have it both ways.
I had this exact reaction from the "realism" crowd when I suggested this in IL2 for all of the same reasons you listed. I just assumed all these guys really weren't so much into realism as they were into not losing the clear advantage TIR was giving them vs the wave of VR users. Like history repeating itself from when TIR came out!
The hilarious thing is one of the threads I posted in was actually about extending the FOV in VR by using third party software and another controller just to shift the view a bit. I asked why they'd all want to jump thru 17 flaming hoops to do this when you could just allow the hat switches to work? No crazy stuff to set up and it's already in the game. (we here in AH know this works perfectly) They were like... "Why would we go back to hat switches?" When of course they were doing exactly that... Only harder! That thread is still active. I check it from time to time just shaking my head. One of the programs they were using recently had an update that screwed many of them up. Lol.
The easy can be so hard for some to grasp.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: FLOOB on November 27, 2020, 11:59:24 PM
As a new quest 2 owner I kind of understand their gripe but their frustration is misdirected. You spend $500 on a contraption that was supposed to make view keys obsolete only to be told that to be competitive you’ll need to go back to using hotas views.
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: fd ski on January 12, 2021, 06:28:20 AM
FLOOB - you don't have to use it. If you're young and twisty enough - you can check 6 using your head :) My neck can't handle that :D
Title: Re: Through the Lense - Quest 2 vs Index vs Reverb G2
Post by: Drano on January 12, 2021, 07:56:02 AM
FLOOB - you don't have to use it. If you're young and twisty enough - you can check 6 using your head :) My neck can't handle that :D
Agreed! It'd be great if you could adjust the tracking in VR like TIR with curves and expand the range of view but as it is you only get a 1:1 option with all the headsets. If you're into the whole realism thing and have a 17 year old neck that's good for you. As my sixties are bearing down not so much for me! Very thankful for AH having the hat views to extend the range. My neck is thankful, I should say! And as I've been doing this long enough I'm not that far removed from when hat views were the only way to look around so using them isn't totally foreign.
I also play IL2 and they don't allow hat views with VR in that game. That whole realism thing. Literally having to kill yourself to see out behind you takes away from the experience making it a lot less fun. And it damned well hurts after a while! Thankfully, about a month ago, another player there who has the same issue has come up with a little program that works outside of the game in SteamVR that extends the range of view with either a hat press (like in AH) or by exceeding a certain point left or right. It does it automatically almost like TIR in that mode. How much range gets added and when is totally configurable. Appropriately called NeckSafer. Game changer for VR there. Says he has it working for DCS too.