Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: BaldEagl on January 28, 2009, 11:39:42 PM
-
We've all been exposed to others views, opinions, hearsay, etc. regarding SLI so I thought I might try to put some hard numbers to the argument. I went to Tom's Hardware and using the 3DMark06 v1.1.0 3DMark Score 3DMark (1280x1024, Default Quality) across the Nvidia line (where I could make direct comparisons) this is what I came up with:
SLI Configuration Bench Single Configuration Bench SLI % Gain
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 280 1024 SLI 13062 NVIDIA Geforce GTX 280 1024 12951 0.86
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 260 896 SLI 12938 NVIDIA Geforce GTX 260 896 12515 3.38
NVIDIA Geforce 9800 512 GTX SLI 12907 NVIDIA Geforce 9800 GTX 512 12042 7.18
NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GTS 512 SLI 12870 NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GTS 512 11814 8.94
NVIDIA Geforce 8800 Ultra 768 SLI 12755 NVIDIA Geforce 8800 Ultra 768 11894 7.24
NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GT 1024 SLI 12673 NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GT 1024 11113 14.04
NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GT 512 SLI 12658 NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GT 512 11109 13.94
NVIDIA Geforce 9600 GT 1024 SLI 12321 NVIDIA Geforce 9600 GT 1024 9925 24.14
NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GTS 320 SLI 11986 NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GTS 320 9111 31.56
NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GX2 4x512 SLI 10897 NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GX2 2x512 7921 37.57
NVIDIA Geforce 8600 GTS 256 SLI 9789 NVIDIA Geforce 8600 GTS 256 5901 65.89
NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GT 512 SLI 8735 NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GT 512 5549 57.42
NVIDIA Geforce 8600 GT 256 SLI 8403 NVIDIA Geforce 8600 GT 256 4913 71.04
NVIDIA Geforce 7900 GT 256 SLI 7570 NVIDIA Geforce 7900 GT 256 4725 60.21
NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GTX 256 SLI 7321 NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GTX 256 4605 58.98
NVIDIA Geforce 7900 GS 256 SLI 7160 NVIDIA Geforce 7900 GS 256 4398 62.80
NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GT 256 SLI 6583 NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GT 256 3995 64.78
NVIDIA Geforce 7600 GT 256 SLI 5705 NVIDIA Geforce 7600 GT 256 3411 67.25
NVIDIA Geforce 7600 GS 256 SLI 4017 NVIDIA Geforce 7600 GS 256 2293 75.19
*Data: tomshardware 3DMark06 v1.1.0 3DMark Score 3DMark (1280x1024, Default Quality)
I found it interesting that across the fastest cards SLI configurations didn't gain much over single card configurations, but, as you move down the pecking order the gains become increasingly more significant.
What I didn't verify was the SLI slot configuration (i.e. x16/x16, x16/x8, x8/x8, etc.) but I suspect since its tomshardware benching these they are using high end motherboards (i.e. x16/x16).
This comparison is useful in determining if SLI is cost effective. For instance, if you could buy two 8800 GTS 320's for less than a single 9800 GTX 512 it might be worthwhile depending on the price differential. I think today you'd have to stongly consider a 9800 GTX SLI set-up against the GTX 280.
Another use for this chart is in upgrading as I am currently doing. I just purchased a second 8800 GTS 512 to SLI with my other one. Considering my performance gain will only be about 9% you might say it wasn't worthwhile. On the other hand, this card cost me $114 (recertified) and for that I've stepped up to almost the same performance as a single GTX 280 1024 without having to scrap what I have and start over. In the end the price of my two cards, one new in April and one recertified this week, are close to that of the GTX 280. If you were willing to put faith in recertified products then a pair of these in SLI at that price would clearly be a performance value over the GTX 280.
Anyway, I thought you might all be interested. Maybe I'll compare the ATI configurations one day.
-
Good work in the research! Now hook yours up and test it with different games. :D
-
I'm not too big of a fan of 3dmark benches since they are synthetic and are not "real-world" performances. They can give you a good idea, but I'm not sold on the fact of those percentage increases translate to real FPS numbers.
Now, do it again, but choose a game (or several!)
:D
-
I'm not too big of a fan of 3dmark benches since they are synthetic and are not "real-world" performances. They can give you a good idea, but I'm not sold on the fact of those percentage increases translate to real FPS numbers.
Bald Eagle. Try looking up other benchmarks. I think the performance increase varies in different Benchmarks. I do like 3Dmark. Just about all serious gamers use it for some kind of benchmarking. It does score CPU and graphics and when you bench where individual games or utlities do not give independent scores. Some are more graphic intensive and some are more cpu intensive. I know you are much better aware of this than me.
Some people do not realize this is a important step in looking at various benchmarks to get the total performance overview of GPU's. Some like to make negative remarks toward 3dmark or not neccesarily negative, but maybe its that not a fair comparison. It is a valid comparison. It just gives different measuring stick to compare than all the rest.
Here is 3DMark and Crysis Benchmarks in Reg, SLI, Tri and Quad. This is really cool.
The test configuration included the processor intel core 2 Quad QX9650 (4,4 GHz), Motherboard EVGA 780i SLI , 2 X 2 GB memory OCZ reaper X PC6400 DDR-2 4- 4- 3-12 , HDD western digital raptor (150 GB, 10000 rp/min, SATA). Cooling system : water-block swiftech apogee GTX block (CPU) and MCP655- B pump. Finally , as a power unit we have here zalman 1000 W. All tests were executed under 64- bit Windows vista home premium using forceware drivers 174.53 and 174.40.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/crys.png)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/3d.png)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/ut.png)
This overview was done by: DRDEATH! This hasn't been plagiarised from any article. I actually did the math too!(Check it in case)
What shows here to get double the performance in Crysis you need Tri- SLI but you do not get double in 3Dmark.
The 9800GT in single SLI was 42% faster on Crysis but only 28% faster in 3DMark and Unrealtournament only showed 20% faster.
So, although 3DMark may not be a "Real World" performance, it is a measuring stick that uses CPU and FPS to give benchmark score. It then gives the end user a tool to compare his/hers score to others using similar systems or even better systems. One can also look at various systems to help in upgrades and other features. The others score on FPS run on high end built systems and are "Measuring Sticks". They change Graphic Cards and then give the comparison.
Also, 3DMark runs the benchmark with 2 cpu tests and 4 graphic games not just 1 game. It then gives you a TOTAL score on the benchmarks somewhat added together. When a single game gives a benchmark, it is kinda 1 dimensional? To me 3Dmark gives a more accurate account due to this factor and is more "Real World."
-
I've been thinking about going Dual-SLI with my 8800GT's for some time now, and now that there at a cheap $100's it is becomeing all that more tempting. Should I finally do that I'll try and post some figures of my performance increase.
-
You could get SLI 8800 320's instead of a 9800 but then you'd have to invest $200 to a new 850W power supply.. duh! Great savings..
Not to mention compatability problems and such that SLI still has, it's always going to be more problematic than a single card. I prefer giving my old cards away to relatives and get a new proper one.
-
You could get SLI 8800 320's instead of a 9800 but then you'd have to invest $200 to a new 850W power supply.. duh! Great savings..
Not to mention compatability problems and such that SLI still has, it's always going to be more problematic than a single card. I prefer giving my old cards away to relatives and get a new proper one.
I thought I calculated it out a while back that to run SLI 8800 GTS 640's on my C2D that I found a PC&C 750W that would fit the bill. I don't feel like doing math this early in the morning. Of course it depends on the rails.
-
I thought I calculated it out a while back that to run SLI 8800 GTS 640's on my C2D that I found a PC&C 750W that would fit the bill. I don't feel like doing math this early in the morning. Of course it depends on the rails.
You are correct. I'm planning on running mine on my PCP&C 750W which I calculated to be sufficient when I built this machine.
-
Until this gets moved to the Hardware/Software section, I found this article on Tomshardware about power usage from video cards.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257365.0.html
-
Its hard to find a more profane and abhorrent return per $ than to go SLI..
more expensive mobo, more expensive PSU, buying 2 video cards..
and thats not even getting into bugs and problems with SLI compatibility with differnent games..
for the $$ spent SLI is pitiful, spend the same $$ and get 1 really badass card, a faster processor and more ram.
-
Its hard to find a more profane and abhorrent return per $ than to go SLI..
more expensive mobo, more expensive PSU, buying 2 video cards..
and thats not even getting into bugs and problems with SLI compatibility with differnent games..
for the $$ spent SLI is pitiful, spend the same $$ and get 1 really badass card, a faster processor and more ram.
This is entirely false. A very good amount of people have SLI/Crossfired certified mobos, duo core processors with Video cards such as lets say an 7900-9800 Nvidea. All it takes for these people to get a 30% or better gain in performance is a small investment in a reasonable video card. 9800GT can be purchased for as little as $100. the only thing the also may need to upgrade is a new PSU which are reasonable also. For around $200 you can nicely increase your graphics. As for bugs... What exactly do you mean??????? People have been running SLI for years with no problems. You need to do a little research before making a observation. If you look at the Crysis benchmarks , they went from 14 FPS to 24 FPS. If I could spent $100-$150 to increase my FPS 30-40%, it would be a no-brainer. I would not considder that an "adhorrent" amount. LOL I spent $500 on my GTX280 and maybe I will buy another and put em in SLI. LOL, that is an "ahhorent" amount. I am not sure on the spelling of ahhorent or what it means.
It is not quite as simple as spending more money to get a baddprettythang card. When some bought these cards they might have been the bomb when they purchased it. Maybe the best available. Now its old technology.
-
There's a little more to it than DrDeath has pointed out. There's a thrill in testing new hardware and maxing out you machine. Sometimes you do it because it's there.
-
There's a little more to it than DrDeath has pointed out. There's a thrill in testing new hardware and maxing out you machine. Sometimes you do it because it's there.
No Getback, there really is not any more to do with it. You do not have to max your machine out when getting a nice performance gain in SLI. Many tests are done overclocked with increased voltages, advanced memory timings and non stock cooling but there are plenty tests done with out them. My benchmarks(3DMark06) went from 12,500 with 1 (512) 3870 and with 2 crossfired, I went to 15,500. I had a 9850 Phenom black edition slightly overclocked to 2.9G. Thats a 20% gain for $150. not a bad bump for a halfway decent price. In Crysis, my increase probably would have been about 30%. That is a huge difference.
-
Sli is a big waste if you ask me Ive been there done that....The next card that comes out is normall just as fast as the previous card in sli configuration......
<S>
-
That point misses the mark. You are correct that with SLI the second card you add does not double the punch but in most systems it does at least give some performance boost. The time to avoid SLI is when a new card is first introduced under the bang/buck approach. So okay Nvidia releases the 380 tomorrow and you could buy one and only one because they are $500. You could get the same bang (less 10% or so) by buying two 280s or even three and perhaps best the 380. The third one might push you over the price of a 380 if you buy top of the line or you could go with a lesser version for $100 each and for $300 have the same punch (given the lesser cards) as a $500 card. You do not want to buy a brand new 380 in this scenario if you already have the last model card unless your PSU just isnt up to the extra cards. If your card is two or three models old its time to get the new model. I wanted to get away from Nvidia but ended up coming back to them for the same reason given not to use SLI. Bang/buck ratio is higher over the long term and ATI (the only other competitor) is extremely slow in optimizing drivers. By the time their drivers are adequate there are one or two more generations available.
My thoughts.
-
Sli is a big waste if you ask me Ive been there done that....The next card that comes out is normall just as fast as the previous card in sli configuration......
<S>
I really don't understand that 1?????
SLI is no waste . Lets say for instance someone bought an Intel E6000 processor with whatever mobo that was top of line at the time(SLI certified). Lets say for arguments sake, the 8800GT was the best card made. No 9000 series yet. User "A" is very happy with his system but over the past few years newer tecnology has come out. You really need to explain to me why I should go out and buy a new $500 video card??? All user "A" needs to do is spend a hundred bucks or maybe a little less to get another 8800GT and run them SLI(with 20-40% better performance). Nobody never had the opportunity to do this in the past. When you wanted a new card, boom, back to the computer store and spend $200-$400 on newer technology. It is an inexpensive and painless step to (semi) upgrade and get 20-30% more performance for a mere $100. The new GTX380 will be over $500. Now, If you polled the entire gaming communty, 99% would say this makes senceto grab a 8800GT for $100.
Now, if you were to buy a new video card, does it make sence to buy a GTX280 or 2 x 9800GT's for about the same price. I won't answer that. SLI was made for 2 things. The high end user could buy 2,3,4 of the best video cards and use them SLI, Tri SLI, Quad SLI and have the best kickin system on the planet or, plain Jane may want to grab a nice inexpensive upgrade in video in a few years(This also helps the manufacturer spin off a lot of older technology). I don't think they make any games that will only work Dual, Tri or Quad so the answer is from the extreme gamer to the everyday Jane, SLI does serve a purpose and there are considerable performance gains. Look at the graphs above, they do not lie.
Yes there may be an upgrade in PSU but it is no $200. You can get a decent one for low $100.
-
The problem is that often you cannot throw in even the same card for SLI, often that same card won't match up with earlier/later manufactured cards.
-
I am unaware if that's a problem and I am not so sure that is true. It' not a problem with ATI crossfire.
-
From what I read, different chipsets or even different bios on the vid cards can give you headaches later.
If I am incorrect, I apologize...
At the very least, it will run at the speed of the slowest card.
-
From what I read, different chipsets or even different bios on the vid cards can give you headaches later.
If I am incorrect, I apologize...
At the very least, it will run at the speed of the slowest card.
Delirium, like I mentioned to Getback, this is a real cool discussion that I researched a year ago(Some things were not mentioned). I did benchmark with 2 cards and have a little experience. Didn't know these may be issues. Nice catch on the speed of the slowest card. The chipsets I do not know if I totally agree. Do you think newer drivers would take care of that?
-
I doubt this would be a problem unless you bought a card when it was new and then bought revision cards a couple of years later. Most manufacturers abandon a series after a new generation comes out and its not too likely for very many revisions to even come about.
-
From what I read, different chipsets or even different bios on the vid cards can give you headaches later.
If I am incorrect, I apologize...
At the very least, it will run at the speed of the slowest card.
From the Nvidia SLI Zone:
1) Ensure that the second graphics card you plan to install:
Has the NVIDIA® SLI™-Ready badge on the box
Has the same graphics processing unit (GPU) as the SLI-Ready card already installed in your PC. (Note: The graphics card manufacturer may be different, as may the GPU clock and memory speeds, but the GPUs MUST match. For example, if you have a GeForce 7600 GS-based graphics card, your second card, regardless of manufacturer, must have a GeForce 7600 GS GPU in order to take advantage of SLI technology.
-
I am in the process of completing my new PC Build and noticed that the Ctrl + I reading "basically" sees the memory for 1 card and not both. Out of the box, I started running it off line for the past few days-couldn't wait-to see what it would do. (have more parts ib ...more ram and 2 more HDs.)
I am running my PC Video at 1920x1080, AH at 1768x990 and at that setting getting a video memory indication of about 770MB (Dual XFX nVidia GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB DDR2) with frame rates hitting 400 at times but they have settled in around 100. In the tower 60-80, bomb sight 500+ but that may be just cause it's still new. Is there something that's missing here for me? Not trying to hijack the thread but it's as close as my search found that was recent! :lol
I guess the question is: Why does it read 770.xMB Vid Mem with both cards in SLI at 768MB each?
ACER 24" Monitor 40000:1
Intel Core2 Quad 9650 3.0 GHz
evga Mother Board 790i FTW SLI ready
2GB Corsair DDR3 10600 / 1333MHz ram
(2) XFX nVidia GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB DDR2 in SLI ($80 each) which was worth it to me.
750 Watt power supply
Windows XP Professional SP3
WD 500 GB SATA HD - soon to be (3) in RAID 5 (the others arrive Tues)
and other stuff.....
-
Ctrl+I doesnt work for a lot of people so you should ignore it. However your frames going as high as you say is a problem but only for you. You should turn vsync on or you will have problems with getting hits as your bullets turn to rubber and dont get counted as hits.
-
Ctrl+I doesnt work for a lot of people so you should ignore it. However your frames going as high as you say is a problem but only for you. You should turn vsync on or you will have problems with getting hits as your bullets turn to rubber and dont get counted as hits.
Thanks for the response!
I have vsynch already "On". I haven't connected to the internet yet and may not til next weekend or after since this PC still hangs OK in game. :) (it does have a bad habit of crashing due to thermal events tho-hence it's splayed open with a fan blowing directly on components)
I have done the CPU cleaning and added new grease, replaced the fan, and actually have a new MB but I just kinda figured this Circa 2003 unit may not last much longer. It's a Dell Dimension 8300 that has seen me add memory and upgrade the video, and power supply already plus a recent lightning strike that took out all my NIC cards and a hub.... I think it deserves a rest! :eek: :(
I want to retire soon and this is maybe my last one (PC) for a while -I hope-so I am getting it "Future Ready". :pray
-
IIRC SLI mode is supposed to disable you from turning vsync on.
-
I have heard people claim that too...
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/Manage3DSettings.jpg)
-
I have heard people claim that too...
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/Manage3DSettings.jpg)
That's just fine. I can take that same screenshot when I have two cards in my system in SLI but when I go into AHII I run 220-285 fps. My monitor refresh rate is only 60.
-
I am wondering if you alter the registry file if it will give you the option to turn vsync on? Maybe do a search or call your card manufacturer support. Explain you are getting slight screen tearing.
-
I really don't understand that 1?????
SLI is no waste . Lets say for instance someone bought an Intel E6000 processor with whatever mobo that was top of line at the time(SLI certified). Lets say for arguments sake, the 8800GT was the best card made. No 9000 series yet. User "A" is very happy with his system but over the past few years newer tecnology has come out. You really need to explain to me why I should go out and buy a new $500 video card??? All user "A" needs to do is spend a hundred bucks or maybe a little less to get another 8800GT and run them SLI(with 20-40% better performance). Nobody never had the opportunity to do this in the past. When you wanted a new card, boom, back to the computer store and spend $200-$400 on newer technology. It is an inexpensive and painless step to (semi) upgrade and get 20-30% more performance for a mere $100. The new GTX380 will be over $500. Now, If you polled the entire gaming communty, 99% would say this makes senceto grab a 8800GT for $100.
Now, if you were to buy a new video card, does it make sence to buy a GTX280 or 2 x 9800GT's for about the same price. I won't answer that. SLI was made for 2 things. The high end user could buy 2,3,4 of the best video cards and use them SLI, Tri SLI, Quad SLI and have the best kickin system on the planet or, plain Jane may want to grab a nice inexpensive upgrade in video in a few years(This also helps the manufacturer spin off a lot of older technology). I don't think they make any games that will only work Dual, Tri or Quad so the answer is from the extreme gamer to the everyday Jane, SLI does serve a purpose and there are considerable performance gains. Look at the graphs above, they do not lie.
Yes there may be an upgrade in PSU but it is no $200. You can get a decent one for low $100.
You have to have a mother board that supports sli in the first place.... second you have to have matching video cards that are sli approved. if you already have a sli video card thats a few years old.. . you have to buy the "same" card that a few years old... I dont need to run out and get a 500 dollar card I just have to get the next in series..... Look i have already done it.
You have to buy two cards every time.
Let me try it this way.... If i buy the latest card out. the only way you can get better performance is to sli. you have to buy two cards. you will be buying the 500.00 dollar cards not me. then even if i buy the next card right when it comes out and pay 500.00 thats only half of what u spent and i have the same peformance. then you have to buy two more cards... So i can have the same performance as you for the same amount of time for less money.
Your spending double ....for maybe a few months of better performance.
SLi is a gimik IMO New cards come out two quick and the price comes down just as fast.