Author Topic: To SLI or Not?  (Read 1129 times)

Offline BaldEagl

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To SLI or Not?
« on: January 28, 2009, 11:39:42 PM »
We've all been exposed to others views, opinions, hearsay, etc. regarding SLI so I thought I might try to put some hard numbers to the argument.  I went to Tom's Hardware and using the 3DMark06 v1.1.0 3DMark Score 3DMark (1280x1024, Default Quality) across the Nvidia line (where I could make direct comparisons) this is what I came up with:

SLI Configuration   Bench   Single Configuration   Bench   SLI % Gain
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 280 1024 SLI   13062   NVIDIA Geforce GTX 280 1024   12951   0.86
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 260 896 SLI   12938   NVIDIA Geforce GTX 260 896   12515   3.38
NVIDIA Geforce 9800 512 GTX SLI   12907   NVIDIA Geforce 9800 GTX 512   12042   7.18
NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GTS 512 SLI    12870   NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GTS 512   11814   8.94
NVIDIA Geforce 8800 Ultra 768 SLI   12755   NVIDIA Geforce 8800 Ultra 768   11894   7.24
NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GT 1024 SLI   12673   NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GT 1024   11113   14.04
NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GT 512 SLI   12658   NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GT 512   11109   13.94
NVIDIA Geforce 9600 GT 1024 SLI   12321   NVIDIA Geforce 9600 GT 1024   9925   24.14
NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GTS 320 SLI   11986   NVIDIA Geforce 8800 GTS 320   9111   31.56
NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GX2 4x512 SLI   10897   NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GX2 2x512   7921   37.57
NVIDIA Geforce 8600 GTS 256 SLI   9789   NVIDIA Geforce 8600 GTS 256   5901   65.89
NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GT 512 SLI   8735   NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GT 512   5549   57.42
NVIDIA Geforce 8600 GT 256 SLI   8403   NVIDIA Geforce 8600 GT 256   4913   71.04
NVIDIA Geforce 7900 GT 256 SLI   7570   NVIDIA Geforce 7900 GT 256   4725   60.21
NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GTX 256 SLI   7321   NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GTX 256   4605   58.98
NVIDIA Geforce 7900 GS 256 SLI   7160   NVIDIA Geforce 7900 GS 256   4398   62.80
NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GT 256 SLI   6583   NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GT 256   3995   64.78
NVIDIA Geforce 7600 GT 256 SLI   5705   NVIDIA Geforce 7600 GT 256   3411   67.25
NVIDIA Geforce 7600 GS 256 SLI   4017   NVIDIA Geforce 7600 GS 256   2293   75.19

*Data:  tomshardware 3DMark06 v1.1.0 3DMark Score 3DMark (1280x1024, Default Quality)   

         
I found it interesting that across the fastest cards SLI configurations didn't gain much over single card configurations, but, as you move down the pecking order the gains become increasingly more significant.

What I didn't verify was the SLI slot configuration (i.e. x16/x16, x16/x8, x8/x8, etc.) but I suspect since its tomshardware benching these they are using high end motherboards (i.e. x16/x16).

This comparison is useful in determining if SLI is cost effective.  For instance, if you could buy two 8800 GTS 320's for less than a single 9800 GTX 512 it might be worthwhile depending on the price differential.  I think today you'd have to stongly consider a 9800 GTX SLI set-up against the GTX 280.

Another use for this chart is in upgrading as I am currently doing.  I just purchased a second 8800 GTS 512 to SLI with my other one.  Considering my performance gain will only be about 9% you might say it wasn't worthwhile.  On the other hand, this card cost me $114 (recertified) and for that I've stepped up to almost the same performance as a single GTX 280 1024 without having to scrap what I have and start over.  In the end the price of my two cards, one new in April and one recertified this week, are close to that of the GTX 280.  If you were willing to put faith in recertified products then a pair of these in SLI at that price would clearly be a performance value over the GTX 280.

Anyway, I thought you might all be interested.  Maybe I'll compare the ATI configurations one day.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 11:51:02 PM by BaldEagl »
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2009, 12:34:00 AM »
Good work in the research! Now hook yours up and test it with different games.  :D
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2009, 12:50:22 AM »
I'm not too big of a fan of 3dmark benches since they are synthetic and are not "real-world" performances.  They can give you a good idea, but I'm not sold on the fact of those percentage increases translate to real FPS numbers.

Now, do it again, but choose a game (or several!)

 :D
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Offline drdeathx

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2009, 01:20:45 AM »
Quote
I'm not too big of a fan of 3dmark benches since they are synthetic and are not "real-world" performances.  They can give you a good idea, but I'm not sold on the fact of those percentage increases translate to real FPS numbers.




Bald Eagle. Try looking up other benchmarks. I think the performance increase varies in different Benchmarks. I do like 3Dmark. Just about all serious gamers use it for some kind of benchmarking. It does score CPU  and graphics and when you bench  where individual games or utlities do not give independent scores. Some are more graphic intensive and some are more cpu intensive. I know you are much better aware of this than me.

Some people do not realize this is a important step in looking at various benchmarks to get the total performance overview of GPU's. Some like to make negative remarks toward 3dmark or not neccesarily negative, but maybe its that not a fair comparison. It is a valid comparison. It just gives different measuring stick to compare than all the rest.


Here is 3DMark and Crysis Benchmarks in Reg, SLI, Tri and Quad. This is really cool.


The test configuration included the processor intel core 2 Quad QX9650 (4,4 GHz), Motherboard EVGA 780i SLI , 2 X 2 GB memory OCZ reaper  X PC6400 DDR-2 4- 4- 3-12 , HDD western  digital raptor (150 GB, 10000 rp/min, SATA). Cooling system : water-block swiftech apogee GTX block (CPU) and  MCP655- B pump. Finally , as a power unit we have here  zalman 1000 W. All tests were executed under 64- bit  Windows vista home premium using forceware drivers 174.53 and 174.40.











This overview was done by: DRDEATH! This hasn't been plagiarised from any article. I actually did the math too!(Check it in case)

What shows here to get double the performance in Crysis you need Tri- SLI but you do not get double in 3Dmark.

The 9800GT in single SLI was 42% faster on Crysis but only 28% faster in 3DMark and Unrealtournament only showed 20% faster.

So, although 3DMark may not be a "Real World" performance, it is a measuring stick that uses CPU and FPS to give benchmark score. It then gives the end user a tool to compare his/hers score to others using similar systems or even better systems. One can also look at various systems to help in upgrades and other features. The others score on FPS run on high end built systems and are "Measuring Sticks". They change Graphic Cards and then give the comparison.

Also, 3DMark runs the benchmark with 2 cpu tests and 4 graphic games not just 1 game. It then gives you a TOTAL score on the benchmarks somewhat added together. When a single game gives a benchmark, it is kinda 1 dimensional? To me 3Dmark gives a more accurate account due to this factor and is more "Real World."
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 02:28:54 AM by drdeathx »
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Offline AirFlyer

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2009, 07:58:38 AM »
I've been thinking about going Dual-SLI with my 8800GT's for some time now, and now that there at a cheap $100's it is becomeing all that more tempting. Should I finally do that I'll try and post some figures of my performance increase.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2009, 08:25:09 AM »
You could get SLI 8800 320's instead of a 9800 but then you'd have to invest $200 to a new 850W power supply.. duh! Great savings..

Not to mention compatability problems and such that SLI still has, it's always going to be more problematic than a single card. I prefer giving my old cards away to relatives and get a new proper one.
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2009, 09:31:05 AM »
You could get SLI 8800 320's instead of a 9800 but then you'd have to invest $200 to a new 850W power supply.. duh! Great savings..

Not to mention compatability problems and such that SLI still has, it's always going to be more problematic than a single card. I prefer giving my old cards away to relatives and get a new proper one.
I thought I calculated it out a while back that to run SLI 8800 GTS 640's on my C2D that I found a PC&C 750W that would fit the bill.  I don't feel like doing math this early in the morning.  Of course it depends on the rails.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2009, 11:33:37 AM »
I thought I calculated it out a while back that to run SLI 8800 GTS 640's on my C2D that I found a PC&C 750W that would fit the bill.  I don't feel like doing math this early in the morning.  Of course it depends on the rails.

You are correct.  I'm planning on running mine on my PCP&C 750W which I calculated to be sufficient when I built this machine.
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2009, 11:48:27 AM »
Until this gets moved to the Hardware/Software section, I found this article on Tomshardware about power usage from video cards.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257365.0.html
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Offline Wingnutt

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2009, 03:30:18 PM »
Its hard to find a more profane and abhorrent return per $ than to go SLI..

more expensive mobo, more expensive PSU, buying 2 video cards..

and thats not even getting into bugs and problems with SLI compatibility with differnent games..

for the $$ spent SLI is pitiful, spend the same $$ and get 1 really badass card, a faster processor and more ram.

Offline drdeathx

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 04:27:28 PM »
Its hard to find a more profane and abhorrent return per $ than to go SLI..

more expensive mobo, more expensive PSU, buying 2 video cards..

and thats not even getting into bugs and problems with SLI compatibility with differnent games..

for the $$ spent SLI is pitiful, spend the same $$ and get 1 really badass card, a faster processor and more ram.

This is entirely false. A very good amount of people have SLI/Crossfired certified mobos, duo core processors with Video cards such as lets say an 7900-9800 Nvidea. All it takes for these people to get a 30% or better gain in performance is a small investment in a reasonable video card. 9800GT can be purchased for as little as $100. the only thing the also may need to upgrade is a new PSU which are reasonable also. For around $200 you can nicely increase your graphics. As for bugs... What exactly do you mean???????  People have been running SLI  for years with no problems. You need to do a little research before making a observation. If you look at the Crysis benchmarks , they went from 14 FPS to 24 FPS. If I could spent $100-$150 to increase my FPS 30-40%, it would be a no-brainer. I would not considder that an "adhorrent" amount. LOL I spent $500 on my GTX280 and maybe I will buy another and put em in SLI. LOL, that is an "ahhorent" amount. I am not sure on the spelling of ahhorent or what it means.

It is not quite as simple as spending more money to get a baddprettythang card. When some bought these cards they might have been the bomb when they purchased it. Maybe the best available. Now its old technology.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 05:06:23 PM by drdeathx »
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Offline Getback

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 04:31:08 PM »
There's a little more to it than DrDeath has pointed out. There's a thrill in testing new hardware and maxing out you machine. Sometimes you do it because it's there.

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Offline drdeathx

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 04:33:41 PM »
There's a little more to it than DrDeath has pointed out. There's a thrill in testing new hardware and maxing out you machine. Sometimes you do it because it's there.

No Getback, there really is not any more to do with it. You do not have to max your machine out when getting a nice performance gain in SLI. Many tests are done overclocked with increased voltages, advanced memory timings and non stock cooling but there are plenty tests done with out them.  My benchmarks(3DMark06) went from 12,500 with 1 (512) 3870 and with 2 crossfired, I went to 15,500. I had a 9850 Phenom black edition slightly overclocked to 2.9G. Thats a 20% gain for $150. not a bad bump for a halfway decent price. In Crysis, my increase probably would have been about 30%. That is a huge difference.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 05:00:04 PM by drdeathx »
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Offline FireDrgn

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2009, 12:26:33 AM »
Sli is a big waste if you ask me Ive been there done that....The next card that comes out is normall just as fast as the previous card in sli configuration......


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Offline Chalenge

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Re: To SLI or Not?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2009, 12:53:11 AM »
That point misses the mark. You are correct that with SLI the second card you add does not double the punch but in most systems it does at least give some performance boost. The time to avoid SLI is when a new card is first introduced under the bang/buck approach. So okay Nvidia releases the 380 tomorrow and you could buy one and only one because they are $500. You could get the same bang (less 10% or so) by buying two 280s or even three and perhaps best the 380. The third one might push you over the price of a 380 if you buy top of the line or you could go with a lesser version for $100 each and for $300 have the same punch (given the lesser cards) as a $500 card. You do not want to buy a brand new 380 in this scenario if you already have the last model card unless your PSU just isnt up to the extra cards. If your card is two or three models old its time to get the new model. I wanted to get away from Nvidia but ended up coming back to them for the same reason given not to use SLI. Bang/buck ratio is higher over the long term and ATI (the only other competitor) is extremely slow in optimizing drivers. By the time their drivers are adequate there are one or two more generations available.

My thoughts.
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