Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BTPommyB on July 18, 2020, 01:03:43 PM
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There are less players than the good old days so please give us some smaller maps.
Getting so hard to find a fight.
Maybe smaller maps and more action will bring new players.
Still a great game, especially in VR but it is boring with no action.
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Crater Map is quite slow this morning-early afternoon. Way too many fields. Small dars with 1 red dot on the map... def need smaller maps.
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See rule #4
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There are less players than the good old days so please give us some smaller maps.
Getting so hard to find a fight.
Maybe smaller maps and more action will bring new players.
Still a great game, especially in VR but it is boring with no action.
-1
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See rule #4
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Rule #4 chain.
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More have been signing on lately, despite folks like the OP trying to run folks off.
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Rule #4 chain.
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I use to get shot down 10000000000000 times a day ,when they put out AH3 it took all day to get shot down just once :cheers:
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More have been signing on lately, despite folks like the OP trying to run folks off.
+1
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More have been signing on lately, despite folks like the OP trying to run folks off.
Yes, and the fights have been....meh. I tried for 4 hours tonight to find a fight. Ack runners. Bounce and runners. Ack runners again. Being called a picker in a Yak9T (ENY35) at 6K co-alt with F4U4.... who ran to ack.
Next sortie...I put myself on the deck to get bounced....pleading for a fight... drew a con all the way down.... who then ran when the tables turned just to neutral. Neutral fight.... run away! Seriously.
I came back looking to catch what used to be, and found that it's basically kind of gone. And that makes me a bit sad. The good sticks seem to have vanished. I used to always be able to find a fight that had me sweating and pulling whatever trick I could find to stay in it. Now it seems the fights are all just E-fests. Shrug.
Smaller maps won't change the players. And the players don't seem to want to fight.... they just seem to want the easiest kills they can get.
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Rule #4 chain
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Rule #4 chain
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Rule #4 chain
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Rule #4 chain
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not really sure what kind of fight you are looking for, i don't have a problem finding one and I'm not really the best player around.
and btw some players won't fight yak3s, i know i don't.
as for smaller maps, they have all kinds of problems on their own. from ack and ords being down for hours due to strats being so close together to maps getting rolled in no time late at night or early morning. think the combination of both large and small we have now is good.
semp
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Rule #4 chain
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Rule #4 chain
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Rule #4 chain
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Rule #4 chain
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I agree that a new plane or tank isn't going to fix AH's issues. If issues are what we are going to call them.
Personally, I think HTC should add a 5 plane/GV group to a "Free to play" mode active in the main arena. To add to more player "group" incentive add perk points to missions. When missions are completed give players who participate perks/added points. Sure your going to get those that try to "work" the system but those that participate are the ones that will drive the "good play" in the arena.
More players working TOGETHER will bring back that camaraderie that we use to have. The more players that work together, the more players in an area, the more players fighting to accomplish a goal, be it defend a front or attack it.
At this point HTC seems to be running a flat line. COuld these changes boost the line up? I dont know but staying where they are has been proven NOT to boost anything. Maybe its time for some of these changes.
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Since we already know where everybody is regardless of vehicle or altitude, why do we need a terrain at all?
We've been funneled into a specific type of game play and the variety is pretty much gone.
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Since we already know where everybody is regardless of vehicle or altitude, why do we need a terrain at all?
We've been funneled into a specific type of game play and the variety is pretty much gone.
Ah ..... space ..... the final frontier. These are the battles of Vipers versus Cylons. Forever lost in space. Refueling and rearming via powerups. To infinity and beyond.
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When the #s are low in the off hours and there are a lot of bases, especially if all teams cannot reach each other like Crater or BowlMA, it creates spread out limited action. For a new guy, they might not see anything going on, and won't know where to go to make their impact. If there is one red dot in an area and its a 15K p51. There isnt much ambition to roll.
A couple of ideas I think might be good are:
Colored zones that provide more perks and create a path to action for people, so that certain areas are more important than others.
Continue to make more maps with 15 mile max distance bases that are smaller in size. Heck, even 10 mile bases would be fine. Flying a whole sector for 1 red dot is too time consuming for the potential reward.
Change the maps at 3AM Estern to 9AM est that would be suitable for Euro players, have 5-6 smaller maps for this time zone. (May or may not be good for some but would create more action for off hours time zones.)
When players can hop onto a map, find a good fight, and be apart of it, that's when the #s start to pick up.
When players hop on to a map, see hardly nothing going on, with 1 plane dars in a few sectors, thats when people log to find something more actionable.
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When the #s are low in the off hours and there are a lot of bases, especially if all teams cannot reach each other like Crater or BowlMA, it creates spread out limited action. For a new guy, they might not see anything going on, and won't know where to go to make their impact. If there is one red dot in an area and its a 15K p51. There isnt much ambition to roll.
A couple of ideas I think might be good are:
Colored zones that provide more perks and create a path to action for people, so that certain areas are more important than others.
Continue to make more maps with 15 mile max distance bases that are smaller in size. Heck, even 10 mile bases would be fine. Flying a whole sector for 1 red dot is too time consuming for the potential reward.
Change the maps at 3AM Estern to 9AM est that would be suitable for Euro players, have 5-6 smaller maps for this time zone. (May or may not be good for some but would create more action for off hours time zones.)
When players can hop onto a map, find a good fight, and be apart of it, that's when the #s start to pick up.
When players hop on to a map, see hardly nothing going on, with 1 plane dars in a few sectors, thats when people log to find something more actionable.
Not a bad idea to change map size for euro players.
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Just have to get the timing right with a change like that...
There is a notable difference when a map has been won in your wee smalls .... that equates to my 8pm -midnight, 1-2 am ... Aussie is 6pm - midnight.... we can have single digits for a few hours when it is won at the wrong time... and with those numbers all you get are scattered dar bar over the map of bombers headed to strats... when the map isn't won and that momentum is still going..sure we have low numbers but they are active numbers...
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I don't understand why people log after a map is won or lost because a lot of fun can be had from a fresh reset.
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I don't understand why people log after a map is won or lost because a lot of fun can be had from a fresh reset.
My theory is a lot of them were sticking around to see it to the end. Once it's done, so are they.
Personally I really like fresh maps. Great time to go buff hunting.
Wiley.
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Oops.... LOL. I am evidently a member of the Chain Gang now.
Hehehe. Sorry HT. :aok
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Time for my plug for a request for AI enemies again...this could provide a minimum of players..maybe 100? At least 30 in each country at any given time?
The AI numbers would change based off the number of real players online and the map size/number of bases.
This could provide much more entertainment and possibilities during the slower hours.
Defense actions and offensive missions would be supplemented with AI until numbers of live players met the miminum for that country.
AI skills would range from newbie to ace.
Imagine having an AI Bong in his P38 with super ace AI skills trying to blow you out of the sky? Any of the WW2 aces?
Sounds cool to me.
<S>
Eagler
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IMHO... smaller maps would kill the bomber :salute
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Max alt with air starts if the maps got that small
<S>
Eagler
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Just keep a rear uncapturable base. Would give buffs something they can up from safely.
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-1 Fuel is free.
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Max alt with air starts if the maps got that small
<S>
Eagler
Sorry Eagler but that will interfere with my wine break :D
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Since we already know where everybody is regardless of vehicle or altitude, why do we need a terrain at all?
We've been funneled into a specific type of game play and the variety is pretty much gone.
The problem with AH has always been that the folks who run AH know how they want people to fight and will come up with incredibly arcane rules to ensure everyone adheres to that vision. Nowadays, there are lots of places where folks can simply log on and fight as they like. Those places are crowded.
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The problem with AH has always been that the folks who run AH know how they want people to fight and will come up with incredibly arcane rules to ensure everyone adheres to that vision. Nowadays, there are lots of places where folks can simply log on and fight as they like. Those places are crowded.
If you ever had a company that dealt with people, you would actually know what you are talking about.
No matter what is changed, I'm sure you'll complain anyway.
You prefer to fly the monsters even when you are the high number side. Just how is that good for the game?
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If you ever had a company that dealt with people, you would actually know what you are talking about.
How do you know that he does not have such a company? Also, do you really think you need to own a company dealing with people to see the issue? Is it not enough to be a customer to see?
The OP is correct. The thing is people have different thresholds and so they leave slowly as their personal threshold is reached rather than en mass. That, combined with lots of conflicting feedback, makes it hard for Hitech to decide which way to move the game. He has made some changes and whilst they looked right at first they actually proved to be detrimental to the fighting side of the game. I am thinking particularly of the all seeing radar to track planes, I found people used it to avoid contact and I simply got bored chasing people rather than fighting people. I left.
Add that to the large maps and invisible GVs - how the hell do you expect people to find a fight? Game is good to milk running buff pilots and sneak attack GVs but terrible for a modern day knight of the sky.
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How do you know that he does not have such a company?
Simple.... by his post.
You too spend so much time complaining that you have no idea how enjoyable it can be in the MA. You want it your way... forget everyone else.
Can't please everyone. Some do not want to be eased.
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How do you know that he does not have such a company? Also, do you really think you need to own a company dealing with people to see the issue? Is it not enough to be a customer to see?
The OP is correct. The thing is people have different thresholds and so they leave slowly as their personal threshold is reached rather than en mass. That, combined with lots of conflicting feedback, makes it hard for Hitech to decide which way to move the game. He has made some changes and whilst they looked right at first they actually proved to be detrimental to the fighting side of the game. I am thinking particularly of the all seeing radar to track planes, I found people used it to avoid contact and I simply got bored chasing people rather than fighting people. I left.
Add that to the large maps and invisible GVs - how the hell do you expect people to find a fight? Game is good to milk running buff pilots and sneak attack GVs but terrible for a modern day knight of the sky.
This Friday night at 11pm Est, every Monday night at 8pm and KOTH are times when A2A is at its best in AH these days IMO
As I don't enjoy IL2 or DCS like I do AH, it is still the best online experience for me.
<S>
Eagler
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I am thinking particularly of the all seeing radar to track planes, I found people used it to avoid contact and I simply got bored chasing people rather than fighting people. I left.
Add that to the large maps and invisible GVs - how the hell do you expect people to find a fight? Game is good to milk running buff pilots and sneak attack GVs but terrible for a modern day knight of the sky.
That's what you see. While people still run, IMO they run when they see something red co-alt anyways, regardless of the dar. I noticed when the blips within icon of a friendly came in, there was a marked uptick in people who would respond to an enemy attack. If it's not a visible dot on radar, it doesn't exist to 90% of the players. I think that was an improvement.
Getting co-e with most people results in an ack drag. I don't think the dar has a material effect on that.
Most people don't want to die and will do just about anything to avoid it.
Wiley.
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Most people don't want to die and will do just about anything to avoid it.
Probably more so if it took 15 minutes to get there, and will take 15 minutes to get back.
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Probably more so if it took 15 minutes to get there, and will take 15 minutes to get back.
The closer bases are a bit of a double-edged sword too though. It seems to me the shorter distances between bases mean people get pushed back to their bases more quickly and it makes it more common where you wind up with a bunch of people at alt just outside ack range trying to kill the ack draggers.
You don't see as many clashes halfway in between the two bases because your ack is close enough to drag to if you meet in the middle.
Wiley.
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The closer bases are a bit of a double-edged sword too though. It seems to me the shorter distances between bases mean people get pushed back to their bases more quickly and it makes it more common where you wind up with a bunch of people at alt just outside ack range trying to kill the ack draggers.
You don't see as many clashes halfway in between the two bases because your ack is close enough to drag to if you meet in the middle.
Wiley.
I see what you are saying. That being said, farther bases creates bigger hoards. If I can't roll from a back base to defend it because its 30 miles away, that means the hoard can take over and vulch easily. Further bases also create higher alt monkeys. The further it takes to get to a base, the higher they will get as they have farther to travel. Some of these maps I feel like there are spots where another base should go that would provide much better fights.
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I think alt monkeys are universal regardless of field distance. If they're going to alt monkey, they're going to do it regardless of map. I know I do.
I really wish there was some way to incentivize people to fight as opposed to ack drag, but they're going to do what they're going to do no matter what. I've had a guy ack drag me from literally over my base to his base because I came in co-alt.
The upside to this game is you get to create your own situation, you're not really forced into much of anything. The downside is, your enemies do too.
Wiley.
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I think the perfect base distance is right about where the two dar rings touch, depending on the map a little closer or a little farther. It allows for people to roll and get about 5K of alt before engaging. I agree that there won't be a way to stop guys who love alt, but some maps promote that sort of play. It is fine though, generally they don't know how to fight and blow all of their advantage in a turn or two.
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I see what you are saying. That being said, farther bases creates bigger hoards. If I can't roll from a back base to defend it because its 30 miles away, that means the hoard can take over and vulch easily. Further bases also create higher alt monkeys. The further it takes to get to a base, the higher they will get as they have farther to travel. Some of these maps I feel like there are spots where another base should go that would provide much better fights.
If bases are close enough, a hord can shut several down easily at once.
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It is a hard one to get balanced as what is on offer here compared to others is all round game play ... you have it all in one box.... as Baine noted there are others but they consist predominantly of one faucet of the game play Aces offers...this would get boring..(If I get sick of furballing I GV..get sick of that...I bomb something...get sick that...join a base take etc etc etc). but those places...don't give a toss...compared to them HT is very interactive as a company.. others will micro transaction the crap out of you till you go hmmm... why is my CC so high.... oh...guess I shouldn't have bought all those hello kitty skins.(Don't buy you have a hard slog ahead of you).. and when you stop...they don't care either...because it's the latest "Free" game out there and there will always be a new squeaker that worked out how to use his mums credit card.
Intro of plane Icon I believe did help... it helps with identification of what you are in for...do you need to chase buffs ... of are you about to have a fighter dance... runners are always going to run.... I come across a few but most of the time I get attacked
There are so many differing opinions that are for the most part personal ... for HT the whole thing is personal ... From the server equipment he uses, the internet provisions available a big thing going to AH3 would have been him knowing that there were going to be a bunch of people not willing or able to upgrade to play this... that is not his fault... but there were cries about it when it was made public ..within AH.... that this was going to happen... he held it back for many years to appease others all the while alienating the newer richer younger gamers who were playing small arena high spec'd games and getting grief for that also.... Balance is unfortunately not the greatest human trait these days...
So peoples personal agenda although on the surface is to help the game..is purely a personal projection
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Simple.... by his post.
You too spend so much time complaining that you have no idea how enjoyable it can be in the MA. You want it your way... forget everyone else.
Can't please everyone. Some do not want to be eased.
Evidently a lot. I mean in the past week(s) several good bye posts. And that’s a lot to this game. I mean a lot of thresholds met? Then consider the ones that never said bye.
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Simple.... by his post.
You too spend so much time complaining that you have no idea how enjoyable it can be in the MA. You want it your way... forget everyone else.
Can't please everyone. Some do not want to be eased.
Actually Shuffler, 30 years in a business that requires intense interaction with the public every day. And I don't see how pointing out that rules that try to force everyone to fly and fight a certain way is me wanting it only my way - I'd think it was pretty clear that I was arguing for allowing as many people play the game in as many different ways as they'd like. So, let's see, you made an assumption or two. You also missed the point of the entire thread - people who want to see the game succeed and remain viable and recognize that something must be done to ensure that happens.
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Evidently a lot. I mean in the past week(s) several good bye posts. And that’s a lot to this game. I mean a lot of thresholds met? Then consider the ones that never said bye.
Even more hello post..... new folks and those coming back.
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Actually Shuffler, 30 years in a business that requires intense interaction with the public every day. And I don't see how pointing out that rules that try to force everyone to fly and fight a certain way is me wanting it only my way - I'd think it was pretty clear that I was arguing for allowing as many people play the game in as many different ways as they'd like. So, let's see, you made an assumption or two. You also missed the point of the entire thread - people who want to see the game succeed and remain viable and recognize that something must be done to ensure that happens.
What was the game?
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What was the game?
Nevermind Dude, nevermind.
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Even more hello post..... new folks and those coming back.
I didnt see that many people come back, a few "dropped in" to say "HI", but I dont see them flying. Almost half the Pigs squad is gone with a few more leaving now that Way is calling it a day in AH, and the Pigs are no longer in the rotation for FSO.
Ya the future of AH looks great :rolleyes:
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You won't. You don't want to.
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I love the way AH is set up, however, when the bases are far at 12am and the fight dies down. I ask myself. Is it worth my time to fly to a base, bomb the town or VH, and then die 3 seconds after I release my ord from AAA. Or if I'm really lucky ill get one more pass before I die instantly from AAA. Closer bases means I'm more likely to roll again for the action of jabo even though I might die instantly by the AAA when I release my ord. It would also keep the attackers lower which would increase the pace of fights.
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I think alt monkeys are universal regardless of field distance. If they're going to alt monkey, they're going to do it regardless of map. I know I do.
I really wish there was some way to incentivize people to fight as opposed to ack drag, but they're going to do what they're going to do no matter what. I've had a guy ack drag me from literally over my base to his base because I came in co-alt.
The upside to this game is you get to create your own situation, you're not really forced into much of anything. The downside is, your enemies do too.
Wiley.
What I think would help here is to either lower ack accuracy - the 88 in the right hands is stupid - to more realistic levels or make it so deadly you die 9 out of 10 times you try to buzz through it.
AND make any ack kill go to AI and not the ack dragger
<S>
Eagler
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What was the game?
You said company that deals with the public, not game.
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What I think would help here is to either lower ack accuracy - the 88 in the right hands is stupid - to more realistic levels or make it so deadly you die 9 out of 10 times you try to buzz through it.
AND make any ack kill go to AI and not the ack dragger
<S>
Eagler
Folks have much more practice and experience in here than many of the folks back in the war because we do not die. If we handicap the gunners, it would only be fair to handicap the gv, fighter, ground pounder, and buffs.
I don't think we want to do that.
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What I think would help here is to either lower ack accuracy - the 88 in the right hands is stupid - to more realistic levels or make it so deadly you die 9 out of 10 times you try to buzz through it.
AND make any ack kill go to AI and not the ack dragger
<S>
Eagler
I don't think changing who gets the kill would materially affect the behavior. I don't think they're doing it to get the kill score, they're just wanting to have their pursuer die, whatever form that takes.
Gotta agree with Shuffler. Whatever the physics were, that's what should be in the game. The additional info we get like constantly updating range info is not something a guy generally had in real time from a ground gun. Maybe that's the route to go, get rid of the super accurate rangefinding over long distance.
Wiley.
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I don't think changing who gets the kill would materially affect the behavior. I don't think they're doing it to get the kill score, they're just wanting to have their pursuer die, whatever form that takes.
Gotta agree with Shuffler. Whatever the physics were, that's what should be in the game. The additional info we get like constantly updating range info is not something a guy generally had in real time from a ground gun. Maybe that's the route to go, get rid of the super accurate rangefinding over long distance.
Wiley.
That is for the same reason as in planes. Depth perception in online games is dicey. I'm just being the devil's advocate here.
I have gone into my ack when I have just taken off and get jumped. Once I am up and away, I try to stay away from the base if possible. It is bothersome when folks are co alt and one dives to ack. Since I was off for over a year after the flood hit my home, I have become more known for spreading P-38J parts than anything else. I make it a work of art. In MNM there is one area that resembles a cliff.... it is actually 38J parts stacked out of the way. None are reusable, they just like to remind me of how many 38s I could have had if I did not part out so many.
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You won't. You don't want to.
Me? I want this game to continue more than most. Its the only game I play these days. Should it close doors I'll be forced to spend more time with my wife!
Unlike you I don't sugar coat things. The game has developed some issues due to how people choose to play it and it has run off a good portion of the players we had. Discussing the things we players see instead of ignoring them could help bring changes.
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All of you asking for smaller maps, who's going to produce it/them? I'm not sure Bustr even plays anymore. Waffle is long gone as it the rest of the crew. I agree that smaller maps would better promote air & ground combat but unless Hitech is willing to take on the task, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon.
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All of you asking for smaller maps, who's going to produce it/them? I'm not sure Bustr even plays anymore. Waffle is long gone as it the rest of the crew. I agree that smaller maps would better promote air & ground combat but unless Hitech is willing to take on the task, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon.
There is a brand new small map. It just does not last very long. The people see to that.... :D
I have yet to see it.
So if maps change every 2 hours.... this is better?
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I log into Melee almost daily. Have yet to see it...will keep an eye out.
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That is for the same reason as in planes. Depth perception in online games is dicey. I'm just being the devil's advocate here.
Being able to tell a vehicle is 400 yards away vs 200 yards away is one thing. Being able to tell a vehicle is 5200 yards away vs 5000 yards is quite another. Just MHO.
I log into Melee almost daily. Have yet to see it...will keep an eye out.
That's the problem, small maps roll in hours especially if the Bish morning crew is on and nobody else is. Big maps sometimes go the full 7(?) days, although it's been a while since I've seen one of the big ones go a full week.
Wiley.
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That's the problem, small maps roll in hours especially if the Bish morning crew is on and nobody else is.
Is that a problem? I guess it's a matter of taste.
I'd prefer a user experience where I could fight through a map from start, to climax, to conclusion within an evenings flying (2-3 hours), rather than sit on a map that drags on inconclusively for a week only to be won in the middle of the night by some Europeans when no one else is on.
Or is the problem that there is only one small map? If there were 10 unique small maps in a rotation, would it be a problem that they rotate every 3 hours? Or is there benefit to a single map that lasts a week?
Could the low likelihood of seeing a conclusion with large maps be effecting the focus and intensity of action?
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Small maps being rolled once or twice a day is much better than big maps lasting 4-5 days. Being apart of winning the map is fun and gives a since of accomplishment. Maps that stay up too long typically die out with #s after 3 days.
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Is that a problem? I guess it's a matter of taste.
I get what you're saying, and that's certainly what more people are geared toward these days than what we've got with the bigger maps in particular.
When the new map came in, I believe they said the Bish rolled it in a couple hours. The nits rolled it in about 6ish after HT reset it manually to put it back in.
You're probably right about the focus, although it does seem to me to show up even in the bigger maps if you happen to get the right half dozen people moving in the same direction.
Personally I don't think a map should last a week. IMO they should last max 5 days so you don't wind up with two weekends in a row hampered by a map you don't like.
Personally I like the ongoing feeling of the bigger maps more than the short bursts of rolling the smaller maps asap. On the other hand it might be an improvement to give people a bit more control over their destiny versus logging in to one of the bigger maps pushed back to 20% of your fields with all your strats at 5% because the night shift was unopposed.
I don't see a play session as needing to win the war every session though. I come in, look at what's going on, and decide what I want to do given the current activity. It could be high alt bomber interception, it could be CAS defense at one of our fields, it could be helping take an enemy field in some way.
One of the things I feel differentiates this game from most is the fact that you log in to a situation. It may be favorable to your side, it may be unfavorable, but you have to deal with it. To me that makes for more varied gameplay than logging in to a fresh map with completely even sides and having the same best path to victory every time. Again, that's what more people these days are geared towards but I think it takes a lot of the flavor out of it.
I also think that's a lot of what is hurting the game's popularity. People want their bite-sized bit of gameplay so they can win or lose and then do the next thing.
Wiley.
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Some live for maps. I like fights. I really do not care if a terrain is up for a week or more. Everyone has their own reason for being here. If yours is to see more maps in a week... it is what it is.
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Putting the bases closer would not necessarily help anything gameplay wise as any increase in difficulty taking bases only ever results in hordes.
"Path of least resistance" players are only ever going to make it easier for themselves to get around fighting.
Some never grow out of PoLR flying and get stuck in it's appeal of ease despite it being a breeding ground of bad lazy habits.
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Putting the bases closer would not necessarily help anything gameplay wise as any increase in difficulty taking bases only ever results in hordes.
I disagree. Half sector bases create much better gameplay. People stick around longer on the map because they can normally find a fight in a quick amount of time or it doesn't take as long to fly to a base for Jabo. Further bases on bigger maps create more people logging off at a faster rate as it gets later. They simply don't want to fly 10 minutes to a base for hopefully 1 or 2 guys to roll. I notice #s are normally higher when fights last longer on the map. If a player gets shot down, its always, do I spend another 15-30 minutes for another sortie? Is the fight worth it to roll? The further the base is away. The less likely they will re-roll if its getting late. Them not re rolling shrinks the fight.
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Folks always assuming everyone is just like them.
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Folks always assuming everyone is just like them.
I only assume everyone is an arse hole, ... just like me :old: :banana: :o
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Folks always assuming everyone is just like them.
And others ASSume the post count says it all
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And others ASSume the post count says it all
Well you should not ASSume that.
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And others ASSume the post count says it all
Whoaaaaaaaaa...I see what you did there :old:
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What was the game?
You said company that deals with the public, not game.
Still waiting on a reply to this.
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You said company that deals with the public, not game.
Still waiting on a reply to this.
If a person thinks a grocery store would compare.... i feel sorry for them.
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If a person thinks a grocery store would compare.... i feel sorry for them.
It fits your bill of owning a business and dealing with the public, no need to back pedal now.
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It fits your bill of owning a business and dealing with the public, no need to back pedal now.
No back pedaling here... am I not dealing with intelligent folks? Do I have to spell out every detail? I think not.....
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I'm wondering, what is the OPs definition of 'way'? is it 100% to big, a billion times to big, the mother of all biggness to big?
How much does a 'way' weigh also?
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am I not dealing with intelligent folks?
No, not here.
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I would also like to see Shuffler expand on his thought. I'm intrigued
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pRon websites have a huge clientele that either like the perversion offered or will go to a different pRon site that offers what more precisely gets them off. There's no 'change what we offer' to lure more clientele at the expense of their current clientele. Just think of Aces High as a specific type of pRon. Sheep pRon, if you will. It doesn't need to cater to foot fetishism. :D
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Actually Shuffler, 30 years in a business that requires intense interaction with the public every day. And I don't see how pointing out that rules that try to force everyone to fly and fight a certain way is me wanting it only my way - I'd think it was pretty clear that I was arguing for allowing as many people play the game in as many different ways as they'd like. So, let's see, you made an assumption or two. You also missed the point of the entire thread - people who want to see the game succeed and remain viable and recognize that something must be done to ensure that happens.
Now you have me very curious, exactly what type of game play do I try force on threw the rules?
HiTech
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Now you have me very curious, exactly what type of game play do I try force on threw the rules?
HiTech
i think it is the more unspoken rules. ie distance of bases, lethality of ack, all seeing dar for gvs and planes. the fact this game allows people to sit in the tower for hours upon hours all while skewing game play for the others in the game. the inability to switch sides for fight in less than 6 hrs when the tides of the game change every few hours.
i mean lets admit it. i have never seen a strat runner (primary thing they do when playing) log on and say "i am logging off for good because there is no one to fight at 30k" but it seems every week or so there is a "fur baller" retiring their account due to lack of action. i have yet to see one of the guys that sits 4k away in a tank picking off others complain other than about the gv dar, which doesnt really work . Strat runners never complain as they can fly at 30k alt and pin point drop a bomb on a smoke stack at a strat (usually to the lowered number side so they can be steamed rolled by the ineffective eny strategy that does not work).
maybe it is more the game play that you DONT try to make us play?
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This guy missed the folks coming back and some new ones who joined. Maybe he is not in the game.... I don't know.
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i have yet to log in and find no action flippz.
semp
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Yet again I agree with flippz.
Hitech your application or non application of something in the game impacts game play. Whilst 'forces' may be too strong a word it can certainly guide the gameplay. Of course you are in a difficult position because not everyone is going to like the direction you guide the game.
In this discussion, which has been had over and over and over before, your use of large maps with 'long' times to combat due to base spacing combined with dropping participation numbers is not attractive to players like me who really only want to furball and so it is a major reason why so many players who preferred that style no longer play.
Question is what is 'long' and how long is too long? I agree with Tongs, radar rings touching or nearly touching with supporting bases in depth were areas where I had most fun. The map with the large estuaries and spread out bases was almost certain to see me log out.
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Question...
Even with low numbers now in A - what ww2 online server has more A2A combat than AH has these days?
I have not seen one
<S>
Eagler
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I am currently designing a new map that will have a center lake with an island "playground". The island will have three tiny "VBRMT" vehicle bases that will have a few aircraft enabled as well as spawns for GVs. The bases will be 10 miles apart and situated on 3K mountains for an "air start" for the planes and to prevent camping by opposing tanks. Both aircraft and GVs can get to a fight in 2 minutes.
I'm considering this group of enabled planes, chosen for similar low altitude performance (and minimal ordnance with which to harass the nearby GVs):
A6M2
Brewster
F4F-4
Hurricane Mk I
I-16
Would this plane set get any use in the "playground", or are we too spoiled with Late War performance?
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Question...
Even with low numbers now in A - what ww2 online server has more A2A combat than AH has these days?
I have not seen one
<S>
Eagler
I agree that this game meets a good 50/50 quality of ava. There’s a lot of combat in il2 considering the amount of servers just a lot more unnecessary work (my own opinion) to be enjoyable as a game. Just wish HTC would implement simple useful ideas to promote better game play. The steadfast hard nose this is the way it is seems to be driving off folks.
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i have yet to log in and find no action flippz.
semp
Never said anything to that matter. But since we are on that point, not everyone logs in to fight hordes for hours upon hours when most only get a few hours a week to play. Others care very little to fly 5-7 mins per flight to chase planes around in ack. I mean let’s face it folks aren’t leaving a game that is engaging and fun.
ModernWarfare just released numbers for active players in their battle royale game that’s near 75 million active accounts. I know it’s a different style game but look at what it has to entice folks.
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There we go. That's the next thing to do. The only flying/vehicle related BR game on the market. Book it. Done. Evolve or die!!!
Wiley.
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I am currently designing a new map that will have a center lake with an island "playground". The island will have three tiny "VBRMT" vehicle bases that will have a few aircraft enabled as well as spawns for GVs. The bases will be 10 miles apart and situated on 3K mountains for an "air start" for the planes and to prevent camping by opposing tanks. Both aircraft and GVs can get to a fight in 2 minutes.
I'm considering this group of enabled planes, chosen for similar low altitude performance (and minimal ordnance with which to harass the nearby GVs):
A6M2
Brewster
F4F-4
Hurricane Mk I
I-16
Would this plane set get any use in the "playground", or are we too spoiled with Late War performance?
Thanks popeye!
What about the spit1 and 109e?
<S>
Eagler
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I agree that this game meets a good 50/50 quality of ava. There’s a lot of combat in il2 considering the amount of servers just a lot more unnecessary work (my own opinion) to be enjoyable as a game. Just wish HTC would implement simple useful ideas to promote better game play. The steadfast hard nose this is the way it is seems to be driving off folks.
He does implement changes every so often. He just can't do so at at anyone's whim.
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Never said anything to that matter. But since we are on that point, not everyone logs in to fight hordes for hours upon hours when most only get a few hours a week to play. Others care very little to fly 5-7 mins per flight to chase planes around in ack. I mean let’s face it folks aren’t leaving a game that is engaging and fun.
ModernWarfare just released numbers for active players in their battle royale game that’s near 75 million active accounts. I know it’s a different style game but look at what it has to entice folks.
Blue Bell Icecream sells like crazy..... but it is different too.
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There we go. That's the next thing to do. The only flying/vehicle related BR game on the market. Book it. Done. Evolve or die!!!
Heh. Don't worry. I think you are fairly safe from the threat of evolution. It's taken a while, but you have beaten me down into submission. I no longer see the point in trying to lobby for any real change. The design is set in stone. Love it or leave it. You're right that the level of change needed to materially change it's trajectory is essentially making a new game, so you might as well give it a different name and leave this one hermetically sealed like a time capsule.
Hopefully Hitech is able to branch out and try some innovative ideas with other games someday.
Aces High is not likely to evolve from what it is at this moment. What ever it's fate is, is a lock at this point.
For about 200 active players, that is meeting their needs, so that is not necessarily bad bad thing while it lasts.
It's like your grandpa is in a hospice.
It's sad because you remember him in his more vibrant, vigorous days, but time relentlessly moves on.
There is no point any longer hassling him to stop smoking or eat better or get some exercise. It would only annoy both of you, and isn't going to happen anyway, and is probably too late to make a difference.
Just try and enjoy what time there is left, make him as comfortable as possible under the circumstances, and then remember him fondly.
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Hehe, good analogy.
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Heh. Don't worry. I think you are fairly safe from the threat of evolution. It's taken a while, but you have beaten me down into submission. I no longer see the point in trying to lobby for any real change. The design is set in stone. Love it or leave it. You're right that the level of change needed to materially change it's trajectory is essentially making a new game, so you might as well give it a different name and leave this one hermetically sealed like a time capsule.
Hopefully Hitech is able to branch out and try some innovative ideas with other games someday.
Aces High is not likely to evolve from what it is at this moment. What ever it's fate is, is a lock at this point.
For about 200 active players, that is meeting their needs, so that is not necessarily bad bad thing while it lasts.
It's like your grandpa is in a hospice.
It's sad because you remember him in his more vibrant, vigorous days, but time relentlessly moves on.
There is no point any longer hassling him to stop smoking or eat better or get some exercise. It would only annoy both of you, and isn't going to happen anyway, and is probably too late to make a difference.
Just try and enjoy what time there is left, make him as comfortable as possible under the circumstances, and then remember him fondly.
To be honest, I'd love to be proven wrong about it but I don't see anything to indicate that might happen.
That about catches it. Some ideas might make what's here better. For example I'm sold on shorter base separation distances based on the last few maps that've been made. The idea that if they just change a couple details we'll draw in mass numbers like the days of yore seems "unlikely" to me though.
This kind of arena is simply not what people are looking for these days, but IMO the style of gameplay is what's keeping a fair number of people here vs the other options.
Wiley.
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Eagler,
I think the Spit Mk1 has just enough performance edge that "playground island" would soon become Spitfire Island (maybe not a bad thing). I would have included the 109e, except it can load 250kg of grief for the nearby GVs. Same goes for the P-40's. It's difficult to select a small plane set with similar performance that can't grief the GVs.
On the other hand, no sense in limiting the plane set to something that won't get used. Maybe 109F, Spit9, C.202, and La-5. ???
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trips, what you mean to say is the only solution is your ideas, nothing else. but you fail to see others are having fun. you don't see that numbers are increasing perhaps slow, but still.
truth is you aren't proposing anything new. complains about hordes, ack runners, bomb and bailers... have been around forever. your suggestions have been proposed since i got here.
game may not be perfect but it is still fun. do wish it would have an easier way to set up your stick.
semp
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Eagler,
I think the Spit Mk1 has just enough performance edge that "playground island" would soon become Spitfire Island (maybe not a bad thing). I would have included the 109e, except it can load 250kg of grief for the nearby GVs. Same goes for the P-40's. It's difficult to select a small plane set with similar performance that can't grief the GVs.
On the other hand, no sense in limiting the plane set to something that won't get used. Maybe 109F, Spit9, C.202, and La-5. ???
Planes will fly across the water to change your intended design. People will be people.
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For example I'm sold on shorter base separation distances based on the last few maps that've been made.
Yes, there are little things here and there you can do to make grandpa more comfortable until the end. Like fluffing up his pillow and getting him a sippy cup of juice. ;)
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Planes will fly across the water to change your intended design. People will be people.
Say it isn't so!!! :D
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The Main Arena should be a realistic map of the entire world. Fuel burn should be set at 1.0 and scale should be 1 for 1. AI should be incorporated throughout it but with randomly generated CPIDs (Frakko, MrPug, Chafman, 8675309, etc.) possibly even reviving CPIDs of players who have passed on - but active player CPIDs cannot be replicated. Plane models should be geographically limited: German aircraft can only up from German controlled territory. Japanese aircraft can only be upped from Japanese controlled territory. British and American aircraft can be upped from British or American territory if American or British logistics have been established there. Italian aircraft can up from Italian controlled territory or German controlled territory if Italian logistics have been established there. Soviet aircraft can up from Soviet controlled territory and lend lease aircraft can be upped there, as well. There are theaters established: Western Europe, Eastern Europe, The Mediterranean, North Africa, CBI, South Pacific, North Pacific. There are new theaters that can be established: West Coast North America, East Coast North America, Central America, South America. If you've read this far then you get a star. Aces High is fine, as is. :D
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Say it isn't so!!! :D
I so wish I could. :aok
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Now you have me very curious, exactly what type of game play do I try force on threw the rules?
HiTech
HiTech, Thanks for asking, and my apologies for not answering sooner. I've been playing and not checking out the message boards, so I'm sorry if I seemed to ignore your post.
You're a smart guy, so the fact that there are eight pages of comments on a post titled "The Maps are Way Too Big" is obviously the most glaring answer to your question. The dozen or so pages of "Let's Write the Future of AH" also shows a community worried about the game's direction.
This is a topic that's been subject of conversation since before I left AH five or so years ago. The fact that it's still being talked about is an indication that you don't particularly see a problem here and don't want to change things no matter how low player numbers go.
That's your prerogative, but if you want new subscribers, (and I really don't think you care either way) you have to realize that spreading out bases and the amount of time between flights prevents new players from ever developing the air combat skills needed to become long-time clients. Time flown between fights is a huge determinant of fun in a game. Any developer knows that. You've decided that's not an issue for AH. No one is going to continue flying four or five minutes so some old guy who has been playing this game for 10-20 years can bounce them and feel good about it. Each time that happens you've made an old coot happy, but you've lost a new client - most likely someone who has been playing other online games, wanted to up their game to even more realism, but was defeated by AH's desire to cater to the desires of its small and shrinking base for easy meat. Short flights give folks the opportunity to develop and the fun to keep them interested. But you already know that.
I think about my own experience. I was one of your first subscribers. I loved playing AH and would spend hours jumping on, getting shot down and doing it again. I still remember the first time I dove on a B-17, shot out its left engines and saw the wing dip. No other game at the time offered such realism, I was hooked. But even with that realism, it was an exciting game to play. Bases were close together, dog fights were many and Tank Town was a place I could spend hours having fun (and subscribers in a one-sector area easily outnumbered all those in the entire game today). I belong to a bomber squad. When I wanted to climb to altitude, I could start a few bases back - no one stopped me - but no one also prevented me from flying half a sector to try out an A6M2 without worrying that I was wasting my time because I'd soon get lit up like a candle. I got good, I had a lot of fun, and I told people they had to try this game.
Once I learned what I was doing, I spent a couple of months trying to boost my ranking, flying smart and taking every advantage. It was fun for a while, but then life got complicated and I just wanted simple, easy to access fun.
Yet, somehow, the game decided that furballs weren't what was wanted and maps increasingly became spread out. Maybe you didn't design the maps, but you allowed maps with widely spaced bases to dominate the game and things became boring for a majority of players. I would imagine HTC could create its own maps, right?
As maps became boring Numbers shrank. I eventually decided that playing AH was pretty equivalent to my rush-hour commute - long periods of boredom punctuated by short periods of excitement. The monthly tolls were also about the same.
You apparently based your decisions on a small cadre of players who had hours to spend in arenas (and spouting off on forums about the need to contain "the horde") instead of considering what would appeal to folks who had a limited time or interest in the game but could develop into regulars. Newbies, and folks who work and don't have all day to spend flying to find some excitement, want the option of jumping online, getting a jolt of adrenaline and enjoying themselves. That has increasingly become "not the AH way." I'd say prove me wrong, but the multiple forum posts about this would lead me to believe you are fooling yourself. That says a lot about HTC's priorities for the game and the players it wishes to retain vs the players it wishes to attract. So it's no surprise finding new players is difficult.
Folks are going to say "How do you know, you've never developed a game." But I was here when numbers were high and you had to divide arenas due to numbers exceeding server capacity. I've seen what's happened. Something went wrong somewhere.
Another example of a rule that discourages players is your insistence to clinging to ENY. That thing has never, ever, ever encouraged players to stick with Aces High or to even change countries. I get what you are trying to do, but would point out that the implementation of ENY rules came at what was roughly the highpoint for AH online participation (note I don't say subscribers. I imagine it took a while for old die-hards like me to finally decide to throw in the towel.) It was all downhill from there. ENY doesn't work. I'd love to see you provide stats that prove me wrong - X number or percentage of players change countries when ENY kicks -stuff that you undoubtedly have access to - but to the best of my knowledge you have never shown us that. I suspect that's because you value your vision for ENY more than you value the folks leaving the game because of it. Something with ENY isn't working. If you want to attract new players, admit it and move on.
If you want an example of how silly ENY is, take a look at my recent experience. I dropped AH when I started playing other, high-fidelity offline games that let me Russian into fights with my computer quickly. I then moved to their free online arenas. It was fun, but (I have to admit) a constant go up, get shot down, go up again, also gets boring. This is where AH can find its niche, if you really want to appeal to both sides of the equation. Having kept in touch with squadmates, I wanted to reconnect and earlier this month signed up for a new account. I was immediately thrown into an online arena as a Bish. I tried to get up to defend a base being pounded, but couldn't get a plane built before 1941. As an old AH pro, I realized that ENY rules had kicked in, although I wondered why the server dumped me into the most populated country on the map. If I'd been a newbie, I would have been wondering why I could only fly a P-40 while P-51s were vulching me with abandon. I would have left and never come back.
HiTech, the fact you asked me to identify rules that discourage players makes me think you really don't care. This is all stuff that's been discussed ad infinitum since at least 2010. Nothing, whatsoever, has changed. Yet you act like "What? There's a problem?" Seriously? As I said earlier, I imagine you are a smart guy, so please imagine we are smart, too. You might know how you'd like your game to be played. That's fine. People know how they want to play a game. If they are forced into playing a way they don't want to play, they leave. That's what's been happening for what, 10 years now? (If you have another explanation for the precipitous decline in subscribers, please share). If you want the two visions to coincide, you need to be willing to work to make those visions coincide for both the folks who still work for your company and the long-time players who have invested a lot of time and interest into making AH succeed.
Doing the math, I imagine you are getting close to retirement and are hoping to just hold onto the subscribers you have to keep things going until you decide to pull the plug or sell. More power to you. I can't blame you. But you asked, so I let you know what I thought. In my business, as I imagine in yours, the saying "Numbers tell the story" applies. When circulation declined, we adapted and actually clawed back subscribers. For AH, the numbers tell me you are still at a point where you are comfortable and figure you can hold on as long as necessary and so are unwilling to rethink anything. I get it but I figured I'd take 15 minutes or so to answer your question. In my business, we also say electronic ink costs nothing. You asked, so I replied.
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Wall of text and no answer.
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Wall of text and no answer.
Yeah Shuffler, but I've only been back a couple of days and I already know you and know you read every word. So it wasn't wasted.
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Wall of text and no answer.
Actually, he did.
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Wall of text and no answer.
Not quite fair. He identified these two age-old controversies:
- Should the game cater to furballers or war-winners? This accounts for the first half of his post.
- Is ENY a good thing or a bad thing? This is the second half.
Based on his viewpoint, the answers to these questions point to HTC's "restriction" on game play.
And up until the end, he was respectful about the way he phrased his analysis.
- oldman
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just read your post Baine
As a point of interest..from my comprehension of your text and the game.
The thing that has changed most is peoples expectation due to the swamp of games out there
yes I do think some of the maps are too big
Yes ENY is a bit of a bug bear (Not so much for me but It is for others so to a degree it effects my game )
However I believe the rest of what you said all comes down to personal preference and personal fortitude
I may not have been here since the dawn of time but I was for the hay day.... and boy did i get trounced... I just kept upping and slowly got better with help from others...
These things haven't really changed..The lower numbers just expound what was already there....what has changed is peoples fortitude... the instant gratification... and the buy the gratification crowds now run amok in the industry... I would hazard a guess that 60% of the new people that try this actually give it away due to not being awesome instantly... it is a hard pill to swallow to not be instantly good at a game...especially when you think you are the bees' knees at gaming...
Yes the long flights are probably a bit of a problem however a short distance can be just as demeaning... in this case you don't even have the opportunity to gather enough E ... with AH you don't get the magic air spawn to instant speed and alt...perhaps this is a problem too...
In some cases the attitude of the community is less than inviting however there are far more positive people who are willing to help than not... unfortunately people are drawn more to drama and as such focus too much on the negative aspects and forgo the positive helpful offers..
Much of the number retention comes down to working a way to have new people...even those who think they know it all... (perhaps there can be some kind of tier system I don't know)..... where basics can be covered before getting stuck in to an arena with basically a bunch of guys who have been playing the game for so long they can go make a coffee and kill you....It would be no different to any of us going to a new similar game and expecting we would destroy the guys who knew the dynamics of the game better..
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Not quite fair. He identified these two age-old controversies:
- Should the game cater to furballers or war-winners? This accounts for the first half of his post.
- Is ENY a good thing or a bad thing? This is the second half.
Based on his viewpoint, the answers to these questions point to HTC's "restriction" on game play.
And up until the end, he was respectful about the way he phrased his analysis.
- oldman
He made a statement. HiTech asked him what rules he was referring to.
No answer.... just a wall of text.
So what rules?
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HiTech, Thanks for asking, and my apologies for not answering sooner. I've been playing and not checking out the message boards, so I'm sorry if I seemed to ignore your post.
You're a smart guy, so the fact that there are eight pages of comments on a post titled "The Maps are Way Too Big" is obviously the most glaring answer to your question. The dozen or so pages of "Let's Write the Future of AH" also shows a community worried about the game's direction.
This is a topic that's been subject of conversation since before I left AH five or so years ago. The fact that it's still being talked about is an indication that you don't particularly see a problem here and don't want to change things no matter how low player numbers go.
That's your prerogative, but if you want new subscribers, (and I really don't think you care either way) you have to realize that spreading out bases and the amount of time between flights prevents new players from ever developing the air combat skills needed to become long-time clients. Time flown between fights is a huge determinant of fun in a game. Any developer knows that. You've decided that's not an issue for AH. No one is going to continue flying four or five minutes so some old guy who has been playing this game for 10-20 years can bounce them and feel good about it. Each time that happens you've made an old coot happy, but you've lost a new client - most likely someone who has been playing other online games, wanted to up their game to even more realism, but was defeated by AH's desire to cater to the desires of its small and shrinking base for easy meat. Short flights give folks the opportunity to develop and the fun to keep them interested. But you already know that.
I think about my own experience. I was one of your first subscribers. I loved playing AH and would spend hours jumping on, getting shot down and doing it again. I still remember the first time I dove on a B-17, shot out its left engines and saw the wing dip. No other game at the time offered such realism, I was hooked. But even with that realism, it was an exciting game to play. Bases were close together, dog fights were many and Tank Town was a place I could spend hours having fun (and subscribers in a one-sector area easily outnumbered all those in the entire game today). I belong to a bomber squad. When I wanted to climb to altitude, I could start a few bases back - no one stopped me - but no one also prevented me from flying half a sector to try out an A6M2 without worrying that I was wasting my time because I'd soon get lit up like a candle. I got good, I had a lot of fun, and I told people they had to try this game.
Once I learned what I was doing, I spent a couple of months trying to boost my ranking, flying smart and taking every advantage. It was fun for a while, but then life got complicated and I just wanted simple, easy to access fun.
Yet, somehow, the game decided that furballs weren't what was wanted and maps increasingly became spread out. Maybe you didn't design the maps, but you allowed maps with widely spaced bases to dominate the game and things became boring for a majority of players. I would imagine HTC could create its own maps, right?
As maps became boring Numbers shrank. I eventually decided that playing AH was pretty equivalent to my rush-hour commute - long periods of boredom punctuated by short periods of excitement. The monthly tolls were also about the same.
You apparently based your decisions on a small cadre of players who had hours to spend in arenas (and spouting off on forums about the need to contain "the horde") instead of considering what would appeal to folks who had a limited time or interest in the game but could develop into regulars. Newbies, and folks who work and don't have all day to spend flying to find some excitement, want the option of jumping online, getting a jolt of adrenaline and enjoying themselves. That has increasingly become "not the AH way." I'd say prove me wrong, but the multiple forum posts about this would lead me to believe you are fooling yourself. That says a lot about HTC's priorities for the game and the players it wishes to retain vs the players it wishes to attract. So it's no surprise finding new players is difficult.
Folks are going to say "How do you know, you've never developed a game." But I was here when numbers were high and you had to divide arenas due to numbers exceeding server capacity. I've seen what's happened. Something went wrong somewhere.
Another example of a rule that discourages players is your insistence to clinging to ENY. That thing has never, ever, ever encouraged players to stick with Aces High or to even change countries. I get what you are trying to do, but would point out that the implementation of ENY rules came at what was roughly the highpoint for AH online participation (note I don't say subscribers. I imagine it took a while for old die-hards like me to finally decide to throw in the towel.) It was all downhill from there. ENY doesn't work. I'd love to see you provide stats that prove me wrong - X number or percentage of players change countries when ENY kicks -stuff that you undoubtedly have access to - but to the best of my knowledge you have never shown us that. I suspect that's because you value your vision for ENY more than you value the folks leaving the game because of it. Something with ENY isn't working. If you want to attract new players, admit it and move on.
If you want an example of how silly ENY is, take a look at my recent experience. I dropped AH when I started playing other, high-fidelity offline games that let me Russian into fights with my computer quickly. I then moved to their free online arenas. It was fun, but (I have to admit) a constant go up, get shot down, go up again, also gets boring. This is where AH can find its niche, if you really want to appeal to both sides of the equation. Having kept in touch with squadmates, I wanted to reconnect and earlier this month signed up for a new account. I was immediately thrown into an online arena as a Bish. I tried to get up to defend a base being pounded, but couldn't get a plane built before 1941. As an old AH pro, I realized that ENY rules had kicked in, although I wondered why the server dumped me into the most populated country on the map. If I'd been a newbie, I would have been wondering why I could only fly a P-40 while P-51s were vulching me with abandon. I would have left and never come back.
HiTech, the fact you asked me to identify rules that discourage players makes me think you really don't care. This is all stuff that's been discussed ad infinitum since at least 2010. Nothing, whatsoever, has changed. Yet you act like "What? There's a problem?" Seriously? As I said earlier, I imagine you are a smart guy, so please imagine we are smart, too. You might know how you'd like your game to be played. That's fine. People know how they want to play a game. If they are forced into playing a way they don't want to play, they leave. That's what's been happening for what, 10 years now? (If you have another explanation for the precipitous decline in subscribers, please share). If you want the two visions to coincide, you need to be willing to work to make those visions coincide for both the folks who still work for your company and the long-time players who have invested a lot of time and interest into making AH succeed.
Doing the math, I imagine you are getting close to retirement and are hoping to just hold onto the subscribers you have to keep things going until you decide to pull the plug or sell. More power to you. I can't blame you. But you asked, so I let you know what I thought. In my business, as I imagine in yours, the saying "Numbers tell the story" applies. When circulation declined, we adapted and actually clawed back subscribers. For AH, the numbers tell me you are still at a point where you are comfortable and figure you can hold on as long as necessary and so are unwilling to rethink anything. I get it but I figured I'd take 15 minutes or so to answer your question. In my business, we also say electronic ink costs nothing. You asked, so I replied
I have left because of what you have took the time to write, I think you have a insight on to why he hasnt changed the game, he is a great guy and has a great foundation as far as the realism of the game, I loved the game back in the day and hung with it till I couldnt stand it anymore and I do wish he makes some changes but my money is on it is what it is i dont care.
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Eagler,
I think the Spit Mk1 has just enough performance edge that "playground island" would soon become Spitfire Island (maybe not a bad thing). I would have included the 109e, except it can load 250kg of grief for the nearby GVs. Same goes for the P-40's. It's difficult to select a small plane set with similar performance that can't grief the GVs.
On the other hand, no sense in limiting the plane set to something that won't get used. Maybe 109F, Spit9, C.202, and La-5. ???
I say add them.
Thanks again!
<S>
Eagler
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Wall of text and no answer.
IMHO he hit several nails squarely on the head.
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IMHO he hit several nails squarely on the head.
He mentioned no rules. He told HiTech that he set rules. HiTech would like to know what rules he was talking about.
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Opening the Book of Dweeb all the way to the chapter of Sorta Revelational Stuff:
Blessed are the beech-makers for they shalt go above and beyond in making up why they are miserable and project that upon others. Because, well, they be social engineering experts now. :old:
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IF you want people to avoid ack dragging. or at least use it only as a last resort, then make the ack dangerous to BOTH sides.
In real life, the ack either shut down when friendlies were in the fire zone, or kept shooting and risked hitting enemy and friend alike. Make either condition the case in AH and the problem disappears.
Back to the main theme of this thread, heck yes the maps are too big. I only have the stamina to play for an hour or so, and I can count on one finger the really good fights I've had in my last five hours. Make the maps a lot smaller, OR... disable parts of them as the player numbers fall. X players = full map, .9x = .9/10s of the map and so on down to a reasonable limit, which more knowledgeable chaps than I would determine.
finnster.
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IF you want people to avoid ack dragging
You'll thereby encourage the vulchers.
- oldman
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Another example of a rule that discourages players is your insistence to clinging to ENY. That thing has never, ever, ever encouraged players to stick with Aces High or to even change countries. I get what you are trying to do, but would point out that the implementation of ENY rules came at what was roughly the highpoint for AH online participation (note I don't say subscribers. I imagine it took a while for old die-hards like me to finally decide to throw in the towel.) It was all downhill from there. ENY doesn't work. I'd love to see you provide stats that prove me wrong - X number or percentage of players change countries when ENY kicks -stuff that you undoubtedly have access to - but to the best of my knowledge you have never shown us that. I suspect that's because you value your vision for ENY more than you value the folks leaving the game because of it. Something with ENY isn't working. If you want to attract new players, admit it and move on.
You may wish to reread my question. Because I did not ask you what " rule that discourage players" I asked you what type of game play you think I am trying to force? No where did you answer my question. You make accusation and assumptions about me and simply remake the claim you think ENY and large maps are causing players to leave.
Now you have me very curious, exactly what type of game play do I try force on threw the rules?
HiTech
The closest I can find an answer to my question is this.
Yet, somehow, the game decided that furballs weren't what was wanted and maps increasingly became spread out.
But you say the game and not me. So I have to assume you mean that I decided. But I have done no such thing. To the best of my knowledge distance between bases has remained consistent since the early days of AH. In fact I have done the opposite of what you claim and have done many things to promote fur balls over the years.
But again I am making the assumption that you are answering my question as (my rules try to promote game play other then furballs ). If that is not what you think then please state again what game play type the "rules" try to promote?
Also your very insulting in your assumptions.Just to show a few.
(and I really don't think you care either way)
Time flown between fights is a huge determinant of fun in a game. Any developer knows that.
You apparently based your decisions on a small cadre of players who had hours to spend in arenas
HiTech, the fact you asked me to identify rules that discourage players makes me think you really don't care.
Even though I did not ask that question.
Nothing, whatsoever, has changed.
You may wish to go back and see all the changes that have been made since 2010.
Yet you act like "What? There's a problem?" Seriously?
I have never done any such thing.
Doing the math, I imagine you are getting close to retirement and are hoping to just hold onto the subscribers you have to keep things going until you decide to pull the plug or sell.
You imagine completely wrong. In fact you use straw man augments constantly, rather then making the obvious assumption I have a huge vested interest and desire in making AH succeed.
And finally you completely ignore the large changes that have been made. Simply look at the free arenas like the match play completely geared toward fur balling. Or look at War Online Pacific.
And finally do not in any way construe this post as stating my opinion on map size. This post is only a response to the still unanswered question. (what type of game play do I try force threw the rules.)
HiTech
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I've always been sorta mystified, myself, regarding the 'map size' kills fights argument. The front is the front, whether it's in a closet or on the entire planet Earth. The clipboard reflects where the bad guys are and, amazingly enough, there is usually a friendly base close enough to get to the fight, post-haste. Heck, sometimes that friendly base is where the fight is. So that really makes the argument 'Should I up at the fight and risk getting vulched or should I up from a base nearby and fly to the fight?'
Then there's the argument of 'Every time I log on the fight is between the other two chess pieces and I'm left out without flying three sectors plus to it.' Meaning, I guess, that the option of switching to a side that's in that fight is too hard/unthinkable/unavailable.
Maps aren't too big. Minds are too little. :D
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Then there's the argument of 'Every time I log on the fight is between the other two chess pieces and I'm left out without flying three sectors plus to it.' Meaning, I guess, that the option of switching to a side that's in that fight is too hard/unthinkable/unavailable.
Mostly because like it or not, most people/squads are side loyal. Couple that with the 6 hour side switch limit and if you switch to find a fight and the situation changes or your squaddies log on, you're stuck there until you can switch back. Also, you have no way of knowing which of the 2 sides you'd be switching to has the upper hand. If you're trying to get on the low number side of that fight, there's no way of determining which that is until after you switch.
If the above information was available, it would be more useful. However, the chesspiece underoos, general dislike of people who switch in the community, and side switch timer still pretty much stop 99% of people from switching.
Wiley.
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You imagine completely wrong. In fact you use straw man augments constantly, rather then making the obvious assumption I have a huge vested interest and desire in making AH succeed.
I mean no disrespect. You know I respect you and your work.
But if I could use my Jedi mind-control powers, I would place a thought into your mind like Inception; your vested interest is in making HTC succeed. A subtle change. There is no reason AH has to be the hill HTC dies on.
Also, I would suggest you define "success" for Aces High carefully, and realistically.
Aces High has succeeded. It was one of the pioneers of online combat gaming. It was the internet Shizzle in it's day. It's lasted 20 years and all its competitors are either gone or zombie husks.
Aces High continues to succeed in that I think you are capturing about 85% of the possible market that would be interested int this particular design implementation. The ROI it would take to get the last 15% is probably not > 0.
I don't think there is much more juice left. I have little faith AH could acquire significant numbers of new players. I can't imagine a realistic scenario where the numbers spike back up to 500 players. I wouldn't spend any money trying, but anything you can do for free, why not. Your best bet is to target past players and re-monetize them somehow. That is not failure, that is having carried AH through it's entire 20yr product life cycle curve and squeezed all of the life out of it anyone could get. That has been quite an achievement for a company with such limited resources.
But you can not alter the market forces and trends. You don't have that power. And AH is not magically immune to market forces.
Other than that, I think you should be putting AH in sustaining mode and looking for new hunting grounds. You still have your knowledge, experience and infrastructure. That is the best thing you can do for AH as well, as a healthy and profitable HTC is the best way for AH to ensure it's long tail.
Which is of course why you started WO:P, but...well that's a whole other discussion. ;)
:salute
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I mean no disrespect. You know I respect you and your work.
But if I could use my Jedi mind-control powers, I would place a thought into your mind like Inception; your vested interest is in making HTC succeed. A subtle change. There is no reason AH has to be the hill HTC dies on.
I'm not disagreeing with this statement. But the interest in making it succeed remains even if the choice that it can not be done is made.
HiTech
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I'm not disagreeing with this statement. But the interest in making it succeed remains even if the choice that it can not be done is made.
Totally understandable. It was your dream project that you invested a huge chunk of your life into. How could you not feel that way?
But as I said, I think you have succeeded with AH and I think you are succeeding as much as is possible at this point in its life cycle.
I'm not saying don't make maps smaller or larger or move bases closer or make some bug fixes, or tweak around the edges. I'm saying don't go crazy looking for a solution that doesn't exist.
The strategy at this point I think would be to accept with grace that there will probably be a long, slow decline in population for this game that can't be altered as the generation of gamers who fell in love with this particular style game fade out. All you can do now is be a good steward and manage the glide slope and keep it as shallow as you can to let the current base get the last few drops of enjoyment and community out of this for how every many years it has left. But limit that to some reasonable percentage of your bandwidth.
In the mean time, keep scanning the horizon for your next adventure.
Look on the bright side. You could have still been working for Bill all these years. :cool:
:salute
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Decisions ... decisions:
(https://i.imgur.com/b6cVPvK.png)
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Decisions ... decisions:
(https://i.imgur.com/b6cVPvK.png)
Thank you for proving my point. What in that available information shows who has the superior numbers in the fight between 22 and 45? Is that 1 bish upping against 6 rooks, or is it 6 bish upping for 1 rook? Total country numbers don't mean much when looking at a conflict between 2 fields.
Wiley.
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Thank you for proving my point. What in that available information shows who has the superior numbers in the fight between 22 and 45? Is that 1 bish upping against 6 rooks, or is it 6 bish upping for 1 rook? Total country numbers don't mean much when looking at a conflict between 2 fields.
Wiley.
People on the other side will usually communicate if you ask. Works most of the time.... granted not all. You have two other choices.
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Thank you for proving my point. What in that available information shows who has the superior numbers in the fight between 22 and 45? Is that 1 bish upping against 6 rooks, or is it 6 bish upping for 1 rook? Total country numbers don't mean much when looking at a conflict between 2 fields.
It's an educated guess if you don't want to contact anyone on either side of that ongoing fight. The strat bombers could be one or two Bish players. Cybro could be on. I could be logged on just to screenshot the map, etc. No, it isn't an 'exact science' but no it's not an impossible obstacle. There's an obvious fight at an obvious location and an obvious way to get into it quickly.
Large map 'problem?' Not really. :)
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People on the other side will usually communicate if you ask. Works most of the time.... granted not all. You have two other choices.
Not terribly inclined to climb for an hour and press B at the appropriate time, nor do I desire to sit in a metal box on the ground awaiting a bomb or bullet from nowhere. There is something going on between 22 and 45, but I've never seen a question and reply on 200 like you describe since I've been here.
Wiley.
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Not terribly inclined to climb for an hour and press B at the appropriate time, nor do I desire to sit in a metal box on the ground awaiting a bomb or bullet from nowhere. There is something going on between 22 and 45, but I've never seen a question and reply on 200 like you describe since I've been here.
Then take a chance and pick one or the other. It's not like you're going to go through 6 hours of pure hell because you wanted to be on the 15 player side of a 15 vs 18 player fight and you ended up on the 18 player side (or however many it ends up being). :)
P.S. (I'd go Rooks if I wanna play spoiler/underdog - they have ten fewer bases and 4 fewer players no matter where they are allocating their overall forces. If I wanted to hedge my bets toward a map win, I'd go Bishops.)
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Then take a chance and pick one or the other. It's not like you're going to go through 6 hours of pure hell because you wanted to be on the 15 player side of a 15 vs 18 player fight and you ended up on the 18 player side (or however many it ends up being). :)
Yeah, but it's not 15 on 18. If I'm wanting to make the 45 fight 2 or 3 against 6 and I wind up making it 7 on 1 or 2, now I'm stuck for 6 hours, or I'm only around for the next hour with nothing to do but horde. And just as often as not, the "high" number side is actually often getting horded because people are either in GVs or tower.
Wiley.
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Yeah, but it's not 15 on 18. If I'm wanting to make the 45 fight 2 or 3 against 6 and I wind up making it 7 on 1 or 2, now I'm stuck for 6 hours, or I'm only around for the next hour with nothing to do but horde. And just as often as not, the "high" number side is actually often getting horded because people are either in GVs or tower.
Heh, you're really going out of your way to paint this harder than it really is. ;)
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Heh, you're really going out of your way to paint this harder than it really is. ;)
No, I'm really not. I'm explaining the reality of people who preferentially/exclusively fly fighters. I'm sorry I don't care about the GV fight or strat bombing. The 45 fight is your only option, and I've never seen asking work once.
Again though, the 6 hour side switch timer and the chesspiece underoos are the main limiter, nobody's inclined to switch anyways.
Wiley.
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Thank you for proving my point. What in that available information shows who has the superior numbers in the fight between 22 and 45? Is that 1 bish upping against 6 rooks, or is it 6 bish upping for 1 rook? Total country numbers don't mean much when looking at a conflict between 2 fields.
Wiley.
So think sector counters should be split into 3 bars?
HiTech
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So think sector counters should be split into 3 bars?
HiTech
That would certainly help figure out which side needs the help and allow people to switch to the right side. Maybe the single redbar would become a yellow / red bar to show to different countries (or similar color arangement)
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No, I'm really not. I'm explaining the reality(?) of people who preferentially/exclusively fly fighters. I'm sorry I don't care about the GV fight or strat bombing. The 45 fight is your only option, and I've never seen asking work once.
Again though, the 6 hour side switch timer and the chesspiece underoos are the main limiter, nobody's inclined to switch anyways.
Not 'reality.' Perception. The example I gave offers an immediate fight for a Knight player that can switch without any degree of trauma involved. Ask, don't ask. I've switched on and off throughout my time in AH and it never hurt me, even once. :aok
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So think sector counters should be split into 3 bars?
If it could be done without too much trouble, maybe so. :)
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So think sector counters should be split into 3 bars?
HiTech
Personally I think it'd help if people were inclined to switch, but I'm not sure it'd be worth it for the dozen or so people who might be inclined to do it these days. Chesspiece loyalty and that other thing put a pretty big damper on it.
When it was accidentally set to an hour wait for side switching back, I used to do it fairly regularly during non-prime time. If a squaddie or two showed up I'd generally only have minutes before I could switch back to that side to be with them. Now I won't do it because if the situation changes, I'm stuck for the play session, and that's the main thing that stops most people side switching at the moment IMO. 6 hours may as well be 24 for a lot of people.
Wiley.
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Not terribly inclined to climb for an hour and press B at the appropriate time, nor do I desire to sit in a metal box on the ground awaiting a bomb or bullet from nowhere. There is something going on between 22 and 45, but I've never seen a question and reply on 200 like you describe since I've been here.
Wiley.
If you do not have time to find a fight..... I can't help you. I have certain times to fly and find my own fights.
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So think sector counters should be split into 3 bars?
HiTech
That would be interesting....
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Not 'reality.' Perception. The example I gave offers an immediate fight for a Knight player that can switch without any degree of trauma involved. Ask, don't ask. I've switched on and off throughout my time in AH and it never hurt me, even once. :aok
Online games are an absolute master class in "perception is reality". ;) You can see it with the people from all 3 sides who complain about how they're ALWAYS being double teamed and HTC is conspiring against their chesspiece/favoring one of the other ones. Perception of cheating may as well be proof of cheating in most peoples' minds.
Yeah, you could ask. If you're misinformed or get no reply and guess wrong, you're stuck on the horde side of that fight for the next 6 hours. So you log.
Wiley.
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Online games are an absolute master class in "perception is reality". ;) You can see it with the people from all 3 sides who complain about how they're ALWAYS being double teamed and HTC is conspiring against their chesspiece/favoring one of the other ones. Perception of cheating may as well be proof of cheating in most peoples' minds.
Yeah, you could ask. If you're misinformed or get no reply and guess wrong, you're stuck on the horde side of that fight for the next 6 hours. So you log.
Wiley.
To not do anything is worse. I look it over and take my best shot at it. It is all part of the game.
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Online games are an absolute master class in "perception is reality". ;) You can see it with the people from all 3 sides who complain about how they're ALWAYS being double teamed and HTC is conspiring against their chesspiece/favoring one of the other ones. Perception of cheating may as well be proof of cheating in most peoples' minds.
Yeah, you could ask. If you're misinformed or get no reply and guess wrong, you're stuck on the horde side of that fight for the next 6 hours. So you log.
Why would I log? I'm more flexible than most. I just switched back to Rooks from Knights. The fight ended up being more sea battle than air. PT boats are fun, too.
Again, it's not a 'map too big' thing. Go to the fight. Fight in the fight. See fight change. Change with the fight. :D
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To not do anything is worse. I look it over and take my best shot at it. It is all part of the game.
It's what people have learned over time though. The old "head alone toward an enemy base" these days generally just results in giving the guy in the 88 practice.
Why would I log? I'm more flexible than most. I just switched back to Rooks from Knights. The fight ended up being more sea battle than air. PT boats are fun, too.
Again, it's not a 'map too big' thing. Go to the fight. Fight in the fight. See fight change. Change with the fight. :D
Or, see no enemy aircraft or 1 or 2 covered up by 5 friendlies, and log. Quite a few people don't want to get in a boat, bomber, or GV. You say "get in a boat", they say "get in a plane".
Wiley.
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Or, see no enemy aircraft or 1 or 2 covered up by 5 friendlies, and log. Quite a few people don't want to get in a boat, bomber, or GV. You say "get in a boat", they say "get in a plane".
I get in a plane. I get in a PT boat. I occasionally get in a vehicle. I'm not a 'fun prude.' Fun comes in all flavors. But there is no 'can't find a fight' unless that's just something one tells oneself when the reality is, the fight is dictated by the group, not the individual. :cool: :cheers:
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I get in a plane. I get in a PT boat. I occasionally get in a vehicle. I'm not a 'fun prude.' Fun comes in all flavors. But there is no 'can't find a fight' unless that's just something one tells oneself when the reality is, the fight is dictated by the group, not the individual. :cool: :cheers:
Well, unfortunately a lot of the people who "can't find a fight" mean "can't find an air to air fight". Regardless of your or my opinion on it, that's their thing.
Field distance I think is far more important to generating action than actual map size. You very rarely see 10 bandits spread across 10 different sectors of a large map. It's not uncommon at low number times to see a maximum of 6 (it's actually 3) bandits in the air on your country's fronts though. It doesn't make a difference if they're in 3 adjacent sectors or 3 that are spread across 150 miles, really.
To funnel the low number times enough to make it worthwhile, it'd pretty well need to be the old DA furball lake. People who don't want to be opposed will find a way, just about regardless of map size unless it gets extremely smaller. Not that I'm suggesting that either, just saying that's how people play.
Wiley.
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People who don't want to be opposed will find a way, just about regardless of map size unless it gets made extremely smaller.
I've yet to see a single map, large or otherwise, that kept players from opposing one another. Shrinking maps to postage stamp size to facilitate fights that can and will happen on maps of any size seems like an extreme form of 'player control.' It's even weirder when someone complains that a large map with more options of play is forcing players to not conform to just one type of play and is therefore restrictive. ;)
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I've yet to see a single map, large or otherwise, that kept players from opposing one another. Shrinking maps to postage stamp size to facilitate fights that can and will happen on maps of any size seems like an extreme form of 'player control.' It's even weirder when someone complains that a large map with more options of play is forcing players to not conform to just one type of play and is therefore restrictive. ;)
Like I said, it doesn't matter much how big the map is unless you go REALLY small and I really don't think that would be good for the game. If I could wave a wand, I'd do the 3 bardar colors although at this point like I said, I doubt it would impact much of anything.
The thing I find funny is I often see on the smaller maps it seems easier for a strat bomber to get to alt and enter the safety of the Cone of Boredom because you don't have a singleton bardar off in its own sector as he climbs. It's actually easier for some of them to get to alt undetected and head for the strats. And on the smaller map you have less time to get to 30k to get to him before he drops.
Wiley.
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If I could wave a wand, I'd do the 3 bardar colors although at this point like I said, I doubt it would impact much of anything.
I agree in this regard, I think it would be a nice little gameplay additive, but it won't really change much in the grand scheme.
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Can't find a fight. Can't find the strat runners. Can't find our glasses. We can find the time to complain. Have a beer, brother. :cheers: :D
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Many of the smaller maps that have been made in the last 2 years have been great. I think they have been solid for action.
There are a few maps where I think a base should be planted in between others which would generate bigger fights. Id have to post pics when I have time at home to show. When you have a front that is over a sector to fly to, that's when things start to get slow.
Maps the like BowlMA IMO are just too big right now.
Its not necessarily the size per say of the map, it's, is there an organized path to action that players can join in to have fun fighting in. Thats why festers map had good fights even though it was big. While there will always be those who have all day to climb to 25K in their B24 or hide in a tank shooting buildings. The majority just want to be apart of team based fights that provide action in a timely manner. Im telling you right now that my generation simply doesn't have the patience for long winded strategy based situations. I dont think AH needs air spawns or AI, what it needs is a path to action for the most important base so that new players and people with short time spans can know where to attack. If they log in and see nothing much going on, and dont know where to go, or don't have a clue where to attack, flying to a base and bombing it by yourself and dying to ack after a 10 minute flight to get there, gets old after the 3rd run.
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So think sector counters should be split into 3 bars?
HiTech
This was a wishlist item of mine 5-6 months ago. There needs to be a way to know who is winning on the other side. If I am going to switch sides, which side do I switch to to help the losing team? Sometimes you can tell by which base is flashing, other times it can be difficult. Sometimes the team with the lowest #s is actually winning the current battle. Late at night the low #s side has no fights, so it would be good to know which side to switch to if you are looking for a fighter fight to balance it out.
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You'll thereby encourage the vulchers.
- oldman
This doesn't seem sensible to me. As long as you have at least one other base in flying range from which to launch, there's no need to take off from a capped field and get vulched. I started with this type of game back in 1990 with Air Warrior on GEnie, and there have been vulchers in every variation of MMP aircombat game I've played since then. Larger distances might deter them, but that's a smaller price to play than hours of boredom for moments of fun- which is what I'm finding right now.
I flew for over an hour yesterday and found exactly ONE fight. I kept turning towards where the map said the action would be and finding that by the time I got there, the fight was over.
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You'll thereby encourage the vulchers.
- oldman
D'oh! It belatedly occurs to me that you're referencing my idea of making ack dangerous to both sides. Is that the case?
I think an argument can be made either way- but I don't see a lot of vulchers diving into the ack now, (at least not the smart ones) and I'm doubtful that they'd be eager to jump in just because the guy they're chasing might get hit by ack. That doesn't do much to increase his chances of survival does it? Especially if the ack kills denies the vulcher any credit for the kill. Of course, that might lead to some players diving into their own ack hoping to get killed just to deny the enemy player a kill credit. More dweebiness. Sigh. As I say, it can be argued either way.
Once the ack is down, the point is moot anyway.
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D'oh! It belatedly occurs to me that you're referencing my idea of making ack dangerous to both sides. Is that the case?
I think an argument can be made either way- but I don't see a lot of vulchers diving into the ack now, (at least not the smart ones) and I'm doubtful that they'd be eager to jump in just because the guy they're chasing might get hit by ack. That doesn't do much to increase his chances of survival does it? Especially if the ack kills denies the vulcher any credit for the kill. Of course, that might lead to some players diving into their own ack hoping to get killed just to deny the enemy player a kill credit. More dweebiness. Sigh. As I say, it can be argued either way.
Once the ack is down, the point is moot anyway.
It is dangerous to both sides. You can be hit by friendly ack tho it doesnt seem to be as likely as enemy ack.
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would be nice trying to land and get hit by your own ack.
semp
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That would certainly help figure out which side needs the help and allow people to switch to the right side. Maybe the single redbar would become a yellow / red bar to show to different countries (or similar color arangement)
Still only a band aid on a bullet wound. The ebb and flow changes so much and so quickly in the game. Other things need implemented ie shorter switch times and (personal opinion) tower sitters kicked.
I have swapped to smaller number teams many times only to get a few flights in before the ebb of time/fight changes and now you are stuck on a side attacking ground guns and begging some one to up bombers or m3s
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tower sitters kicked.
How would you implement that? What are your parameters? Does that include hangar, o club, etc? :old:
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How would you implement that? What are your parameters? Does that include hangar, o club, etc? :old:
Battlefield will kick you for inactivity. It's not 30 sec. more like 5 min.
Since they enforce side balancing, it's important they are only counting live players.
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Battlefield will kick you for inactivity. It's not 30 sec. more like 5 min.
Since they enforce side balancing, it's important they are only counting live players.
I'm of the mind that even 5 minutes is too short. Squads have people gather in the tower and even discuss squad mission parameters. If activity includes going to the hangar and looking through toy options and their load outs then that's one thing. If activity must be in a toy with wheels up, vehicle engine on or some such, that's another. What about gun emplacements? Start punishing players for 'too much' tower time and they'll man rear area guns and take naps. ;)
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Still only a band aid on a bullet wound. The ebb and flow changes so much and so quickly in the game. Other things need implemented ie shorter switch times and (personal opinion) tower sitters kicked.
I have swapped to smaller number teams many times only to get a few flights in before the ebb of time/fight changes and now you are stuck on a side attacking ground guns and begging some one to up bombers or m3s
You are worried about people in the tower. Mostly your high numbers are because you have a lot of folks on the side you are on. Try switching to a low number side and even up the numbers.
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I'm of the mind that even 5 minutes is too short. Squads have people gather in the tower and even discuss squad mission parameters. If activity includes going to the hangar and looking through toy options and their load outs then that's one thing. If activity must be in a toy with wheels up, vehicle engine on or some such, that's another. What about gun emplacements? Start punishing players for 'too much' tower time and they'll man rear area guns and take naps. ;)
Pretty simple to implement, if you haven't got any activity on channels or clicking on anything, whatever time they settle on, have a 30 second "click Ok or get booted" window pop up in a random location.
Ofc putting a rubber band on your joystick and sitting in a field gun negates it, which is why HT hasn't bothered with it. It would help with the accidentals, not so much with the guys who are doing it intentionally.
Wiley.
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No reason for ENY constraints under 100 players IMO.
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If your discussing and talking about missions/plans, I think that would be called activity, and so no bounce.
Basically they are looking for players who tower sit over night hoping to be counted in on the win. Also players like cybro that hide in a spot to flash a base for hours on end. These players are contributing nothing to game play and so should be kicked.
There are so many ideas posted to try and help generate more players, or more action. Hes another one, squads take in new players. New players gets 500 perks for joining a squad. Squad retains the player who must be active say 40 hours a tour for 3 tours HTC pulls a random name from that squad and gives them a free month of AH. Makes squad work to bring in and attach new players, makes squads work together to keep the new player hopefully training/teaching them a few tricks and all it costs HTC is a single months subscription which is covered by retaining a new player for 3 months.
Nobody KNOWs how some of these ideas would pan out, everyone, even Hitech is only speculating. The only way to know for sure is to try them. Kicking players may piss off some players, tough, dont become so inactive, either play, or log.
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Pretty simple to implement, if you haven't got any activity on channels or clicking on anything, whatever time they settle on, have a 30 second "click Ok or get booted" window pop up in a random location.
Ofc putting a rubber band on your joystick and sitting in a field gun negates it, which is why HT hasn't bothered with it. It would help with the accidentals, not so much with the guys who are doing it intentionally.
Wiley.
I wasn't suggesting that for AH, just providing an example.
In the case of AH, I suspect a large percentage of those towered players are just using AH as a chat room. They are probably texting and voxing but not flying. So you'd have to decide if that is inactivity.
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It would help with the accidentals, not so much with the guys who are doing it intentionally.
Which leads me to wonder 'why bother?' There is no great tower time conspiracy that affects one side more than any other. 'Game improvement' should never focus on broken perception.
I like the idea of some AI being added to the MA. Others have poo pooed that. But at least AI will never be social engineering. :D
*20% AI activity wouldn't end the world. Make it stuff that is already non-dog fighting - strat runs, tank columns moving into newly acquired territory, more trains, fleets automatically firing on other fleets when in range (with players still able to take over turrets) so forth. Keep fighters human so you can feed off your opponent's tears. :aok
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You are worried about people in the tower. Mostly your high numbers are because you have a lot of folks on the side you are on. Try switching to a low number side and even up the numbers.
It skews the numbers on all sides, and lack of typing, interacting with GUI in the tower for more than 5 minutes should boot you, especially when it affects playability of the game. Why should he have to switch countries because one has more AFK players?
The only reason against a inactivity boot would IMO would be that the actual online count would drop by a lot (different percentage given the time of day.)
When numbers are low in the arena, 3 or 4 afk folks more on one side can really jack around with ENY.
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Which leads me to wonder 'why bother?' There is no great tower time conspiracy that affects one side more than any other. 'Game improvement' should never focus on broken perception.
I like the idea of some AI being added to the MA. Others have poo pooed that. But at least AI will never be social engineering. :D
I think people make a mountain out of the tower sitter molehill. For one thing, HT pointed out if you assume similar numbers of tower sitters per side, kicking them would actually make ENY worse.
However, I wouldn't be tremendously skeptical that when a team's getting close to a win they get an inordinate amount of tower sitters waiting for those precious, precious war win perks. :rolleyes:
I wasn't suggesting that for AH, just providing an example.
In the case of AH, I suspect a large percentage of those towered players are just using AH as a chat room. They are probably texting and voxing but not flying. So you'd have to decide if that is inactivity.
Oh sure. I don't have a problem with it in principle, I just don't think it would be effective at stopping the problem people seem to be fixated on.
I don't see why you would kick them if they're talking/texting. Talking to people is a lot of what goes on in here. Most MMOs I've played worked similarly. If they don't get any inputs, they boot you.
Wiley.
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AI fighters with different skill sets would add a great element to the game IMO
Any empty base should have a couple spawn as soon as air dar starts blinking.
It would improve the fun and strategy during low number hours.
<S>
Eagler
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If your discussing and talking about missions/plans, I think that would be called activity, and so no bounce.
Basically they are looking for players who tower sit over night hoping to be counted in on the win. Also players like cybro that hide in a spot to flash a base for hours on end. These players are contributing nothing to game play and so should be kicked.
There are so many ideas posted to try and help generate more players, or more action. Hes another one, squads take in new players. New players gets 500 perks for joining a squad. Squad retains the player who must be active say 40 hours a tour for 3 tours HTC pulls a random name from that squad and gives them a free month of AH. Makes squad work to bring in and attach new players, makes squads work together to keep the new player hopefully training/teaching them a few tricks and all it costs HTC is a single months subscription which is covered by retaining a new player for 3 months.
Nobody KNOWs how some of these ideas would pan out, everyone, even Hitech is only speculating. The only way to know for sure is to try them. Kicking players may piss off some players, tough, dont become so inactive, either play, or log.
Hmmm... I kind of like your new player idea. Might need some tweaking in a way or two... but it seems very sound. It also requires the individual to stay awhile and participate. The HOOK!
I'm sure HT gets a lot of suggestions but I think you should send this direct to him. :salute
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It skews the numbers on all sides, and lack of typing, interacting with GUI in the tower for more than 5 minutes should boot you, especially when it affects playability of the game. Why should he have to switch countries because one has more AFK players?
The only reason against a inactivity boot would IMO would be that the actual online count would drop by a lot (different percentage given the time of day.)
When numbers are low in the arena, 3 or 4 afk folks more on one side can really jack around with ENY.
WAIT.... it takes me longer than 5 minutes to mix up more margaritas. :D
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WAIT.... it takes me longer than 5 minutes to mix up more margaritas. :D
Zactly, eh? (I'm 'Canadian' until after TFT.) :joystick:
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WAIT.... it takes me longer than 5 minutes to mix up more margaritas. :D
just up a tank point it in the direction of some trees and take your time making margaritas.
semp
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Zactly, eh? (I'm 'Canadian' until after TFT.) :joystick:
They still letting you wear your boots? :rofl
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just up a tank point it in the direction of some trees and take your time making margaritas.
semp
Have you seen me in a tank?????? I am usually blowing up. ROTFLMAO
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They still letting you wear your boots? :rofl
(https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/awm-media/collection/REL/13344/screen/3801817.JPG)
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ENY should kick in with numbers...how many I don't know... but on my side of the world when there is 24 on and only 15 of those actually active... and then ENY..yes it can be quite lopsided for sure...sometimes one side only has the AFK guy on.....but well, that active number falls away and things get really really slow....we do have a certain few guys at this time when we are all on it is a great time..good battles to and fro dogfites, base takes we have it all...the numbers don't dis wade fun times .... but this is not an everyday occurrence unfortunately
Actually some of you Merican's should wake up early.. euro/south pacific fighting is the fun times that you are all looking for...honest ;)
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ENY should kick in with numbers...how many I don't know... but on my side of the world when there is 24 on and only 15 of those actually active... and then ENY..yes it can be quite lopsided for sure...sometimes one side only has the AFK guy on.....but well, that active number falls away and things get really really slow....we do have a certain few guys at this time when we are all on it is a great time..good battles to and fro dogfites, base takes we have it all...the numbers don't dis wade fun times .... but this is not an everyday occurrence unfortunately
Actually some of you Merican's should wake up early.. euro/south pacific fighting is the fun times that you are all looking for...honest ;)
Many of us have flown with yall. Great times. I really enjoy the Scenarios when folks bring their accents and it adds to the feel of the event. :salute
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would be nice trying to land and get hit by your own ack.
semp
Yup, that would suck in a major way- but in real life it happened. Not generally to aircraft in the landing pattern, but certainly during combat over the base.