Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Plawranc on December 23, 2009, 02:25:37 AM
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This is a crucial plane missing from the AH2 planeset. The U4 variant mentioned in the title is the custom made G10 built for bomber destruction. It could be fitted with the BF-110's fuselage 30mm's or a non jettisonable fuel tank on the centre pylon. This would be a brilliant add to the 109 collection due to the enormous boost in firepower ,top speed and agility.
Specifications:
Type: Fighter Aircraft
First Flight: September of 1935
Wingspan: 32 feet 6.5 inches
Length: 29 feet 8 inches
Height: 8 feet 6 inches
Wing Area: 174 square feet
Weight,Empty: 5,132 pounds
Weight,Loaded: 7,370 pounds
Power: One Daimler-Benz DB 605 D-1,
1,800 horsepower engine
Normal Crew: One
Typical Armament: Two 13 mm MG 131 machine guns;
one 30 mm MK 108 cannon
Performance
Cruise Speed: 310 miles per hour
Top Speed: 429 miles per hour at 24,606 feet
Range: 450 miles at 330 miles per hour
Service Ceiling: 41,000 feet
(http://mccoy.nu/109/bf109g10black6.jpg)
Without attachments.
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As always, they are sexy. It would make a great addition to AH, like many others that need to fill in the gap.
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It would be useless in AH, as a gap filler. It entered service after the Bf109K-4.
What is needed is a Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14/AS.
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It would be useless in AH, as a gap filler. It entered service after the Bf109K-4.
What is needed is a Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14/AS.
Disagree. The G-10 would be useful for scenarios and for its 20mm hub cannon.... Every plane that saw combat in significant numbers is useful.
<Sigh> we've been here soooo many times before.
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cc a G10 is real nice!
no idea why it isnt in the planelist anymore
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I would love a 109 G10, its the 109 that would suit me the most.
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+1 looks awesome!
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cc a G10 is real nice!
no idea why it isnt in the planelist anymore
It never really was in the plane list. There was a Bf109K-4 that was called a Bf109G-10 so that they could give it a 20mm option.
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it would be nice to have a G10, or just give us a 20mm loadout for the k4..after all there is loads of varients of spitfire
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Nine hours and Wrag hasn't put in an appearance in a 109G10 thread, he's slipping. :D
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it would be nice to have a G10, or just give us a 20mm loadout for the k4..after all there is loads of varients of spitfire
One more than we have Bf 109 variants :)
The G-10 would be kind of useless as a gap filler; performance similar to, but worse than the K-4, and introduced about the same time. The only thing it would add would be having a very fast, high altitude 109 with an MG151/20 hub cannon.
To fill that gap I think that the G-6/AS or G-14/AS would be much better suited.
This is a crucial plane missing from the AH2 planeset. The U4 variant mentioned in the title is the custom made G10 built for bomber destruction. It could be fitted with the BF-110's fuselage 30mm's or a non jettisonable fuel tank on the centre pylon. This would be a brilliant add to the 109 collection due to the enormous boost in firepower ,top speed and agility.
Ehhh this is full of inaccurate and misleading stats.
First of all the Bf 109G-10 wasn't anything new per se. It was attempt to bring the last of the Gustav series up to the new standard of the K (well, as close as possible) as a supplement. As a result, a very large number of G-10's were simply converted from old G-6s and G-14s. This meant that the G-10 was the fastest of the G series.... however it still couldn't match the performance of the K-4. It also lacked other features of the K-4 (mostly simple reworks).
Also, the /U4 designation does not mean it was 'custom made for bomber destruction'. In the G-6, G-14 and G-10 (the designation may have been used for other things in earlier models and the K-4), the designation /U4 simply means it has the low velocity 30mm MK108 and the necessary equipment to fire it, as opposed to an MG151/20, as the hub cannon... just like is an option in our G-14 and required in the K-4. The /U4 was hardly a custom variant and probably was produced in higher numbers than MG151/20 G-10's.
The language 'could be fitted with the Bf 110's fuselage 30mms' is highly misleading as that would suggest that they would be stored or 'fitted' in some kind of gondola or pack... and that the MK 108 was an option for a /U4 109. This is not so. The MK108 in the G-10/U4 was just the hub gun like in any other /U4, and was not an option... the aircraft had to be built at the factory like this or go through relatively extensive modifications to switch between an MG151/20 and an MK108.
Also 'or a non jettisonable fuel tank on the centre pylon' is just plain wrong, and would be a stupid idea. Willi Messerschmitt was not particularly stupid :)
Ruestsatz 3, for the G-10, like almost all 109's, was the drop tank rack and necessary fittings to make it work, and it worked the same as it did on all of the other 109 models since it was introduced.
"This would be a brilliant add to the 109 collection due to the enormous boost in firepower ,top speed and agility."
The G-10 carried no more armament nor was more agile than the G-14 or K-4 (I suppose it could be fitted with MG151/20 underwing gondolas however that would be kind of counter-productive), and was no faster than the K-4.
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I was always under the impression the G10 flew like a K4 but with 20mm hub cannon :D
in that case...give us the G14 A/S :noid
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The G-10s had less performance due to many little variations from the K-4. I think they included more weight, more drag, and possibly (don't know if I'm recalling this right) a different version of the engine.
Overall the fastest G10 was somewhere within 10mph of a K-4, but they all could vary so much that the general performance (aside from this "best case speed") were noticably slower.
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In response to Motherlands post.
The Irmer Behalter centerline slipper tank was used on the G-10 U4 to greatly extend fuel range. It was fixed to the pylon.
The gunpack option was used extensively, two MK108's fixed in a belly gun pack synchronised with the prop could be loaded onto the G-10 as an option without any extensive modification.
Quote from: Great Aircraft of the World - An illustrated history of military and civil aircraft complete with technical spec's.
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The gunpack option was used extensively, two MK108's fixed in a belly gun pack synchronised with the prop could be loaded onto the G-10 as an option without any extensive modification.
I'm sorry.. this is just wrong.
The Mk108s could NOT be synchronized. That's why they had to be fired through the prop hub (single mounting on 109s/152s/etc) or between sets of propellors (centerline on bf110s, me410s, etc)
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The issue with encyclopedias (or encyclopediae? I think it has some kind of weird plural? w/e) is that they're written by people who don't necessarily have a detailed expertise in a single aircraft line; as a result they're usually correct in a general sense but they get details wrong a lot.
That book is no exception, as it was conveniently available in PDF format with a quick Google search, it became clear that it was susceptible to several myths and legends concerning the 109, particularly the later models.
Curiously the neither non-jettisonable drop tank nor the MK 108 pack is mentioned in Prien and Rodeike's book on the F G and K series, which dedicates about as much paper to the G-10 as that book does the entirety of the 109 series, nor any other book I own on the series, nor any internet source, even Wikipedia, leading me to the position; I'll believe it when I see it.
Perhaps he misinterpreted Ruestsatz 4, two MK108's mounted in underwing gondolas a la Ruestatz 6 (the one we have in game), however this was never used operationally. Not really sure where he got the external tank from, I've never heard of that.
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In response to Motherlands post.
The Irmer Behalter centerline slipper tank was used on the G-10 U4 to greatly extend fuel range. It was fixed to the pylon.
The gunpack option was used extensively, two MK108's fixed in a belly gun pack synchronised with the prop could be loaded onto the G-10 as an option without any extensive modification.
Quote from: Great Aircraft of the World - An illustrated history of military and civil aircraft complete with technical spec's.
I have that book. I use it as a bookend to support my books that contain accurate information.
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I have that book. I use it as a bookend to support my books that contain accurate information.
:lol
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I have that book. I use it as a bookend to support my books that contain accurate information.
:rofl
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it would be nice to have a G10, or just give us a 20mm loadout for the k4..after all there is loads of varients of spitfire
We also have loads of Bf109s, so saying we have lots of Spitfires is rather misleading as it implies there are few, or only one, Bf109 in AH. There are many valid arguments to add more Bf109s, but saying there are many Spitfires in AH is not one of them.
Spitfire Mk Ia - Bf109E-4
Spitfire Mk Vb - Bf109F-4
Spitfire Mk IX - Bf109G-2
Spitfire Mk VIII - Bf109G-6
Spitfire Mk XVI - Bf109G-14
Spitfire Mk XIV - Bf109K-4
Seafire Mk IIc - N/A due to lack of German carriers
I would have preferred the Bf109G-14 to have been the /AS version.
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You may have your 109-g10 when I get my Mk Vc back. :neener:
Edit: And I want it with clipped wings this time. :neener:
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I'm sorry.. this is just wrong.
The Mk108s could NOT be synchronized...
Oh? Why not?
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Reading "Messerschmitt Bf 109 Recognition Manual - A Guide to Variants, Weapons and Equipment by Marco Fernandez-Sommerau". The G-10/U4 had two 20mm MG 151 Gondolas.
Krusty, they could be syncronized. It's just that the 109's used different VDM gears throughout the Series and they didn't waste money to design more. The 109 G-10's used the 9-12159-A type Propeller.
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The Mk108s were not electrically charged, like later MG151/20s, right?
Germans couldn't synchronize unless it was electrically fired, because of the way the gear worked on 109s.
They went through some effort to make a MG151/20 that could be interrupted electrically, for centerline use in 109s, but the ammo was not compatible with normal MG151/20s.
Same for the Mk108s, as far as I know. That's why you only find them outside of prop arcs, be it outboard wings on 190s, outboard gunpods (tested) on 109s, centerlines on 110s, 410s, and other night-fighter-types.
I don't think a single Mk108 anywhere in the war was fired through a prop blade with synchronization. All fired through hubs or outside of the props.
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Mk108's were electrically ignited. They were charged and triggered by compressed air. The Mk108 was always a Hub/Gondola mounted Cannon.
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Sorry, yes I meant "ignited" -- poor choice of words considering "charged" means something else!
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Seafire Mk IIc - N/A due to lack of German carriers
They did produce a T version which was a carrier based 109, but it ended up being used from short airstrips when the german navy cancelled the Aircraft carrier project, JG11 Flew them, not sure how many of the 60 were assigned to JG11.
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They did produce a T version which was a carrier based 109, but it ended up being used from short airstrips when the german navy cancelled the Aircraft carrier project, JG11 Flew them, not sure how many of the 60 were assigned to JG11.
I am aware of that, but the Bf109T was basically just a Bf109E, so it really isn't comparable to a Seafire.
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What is needed is.... gondolas on the F-4! like there used to be :)
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What is needed is.... gondolas on the F-4! like there used to be :)
Only the Bf 109 F-4/R7 variant had the MG 151/15mm Gondolas. Dunno what variant we have in the game, but it should be easy to add.
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Only the Bf 109 F-4/R7 variant had the MG 151/15mm Gondolas. Dunno what variant we have in the game, but it should be easy to add.
/R7 refers to the Rustsaetz kit... such as, a Bf 109G-6 w/ MG151/20 gondolas was often in games as a Bf 109G-6/R6. Rustsaetz 6 was the gondola kit for the Gustav series.
Also, according to Prien & Rodeike's book, it was R1, not R7.
Semantics though :)
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/R7 refers to the Rustsaetz kit... such as, a Bf 109G-6 w/ MG151/20 gondolas was often in games as a Bf 109G-6/R6. Rustsaetz 6 was the gondola kit for the Gustav series.
Also, according to Prien & Rodeike's book, it was R1, not R7.
Semantics though :)
The F-4/R1 was a Fighter-Bomber with an ETC 500/IXb Bomb Rack.
The F-4/R2 was a Fighter-Bomber with an ETC 50/VIIId Bomb Rack.
The F-4/R3 was an Extended Range Fighter with one 300 Litre Drop Tank.
The F-4/R4 was a Fighter-Bomber Rosttrager 4 x 24 SD 2/XII rack for Anti-Personnel bombs.
The F-4/R7 was what I previously said it was. It did not have the 20mm Gondolas. It had 15mm Gondolas.
This is the Standard "Rustzustand" (R) load out for the F series. No semantics at all.