Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Larry on July 16, 2018, 05:49:03 PM
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This is an adopted skin originally done by NrRaVeN. Flow by Hannes Trautloft CO of JG54 during the summer of '42. This is my first skin in over four years and my first AH3 skin so I'm still trying to get everything down. Still a work in progress any input would be greatly appreciated.
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I like it, nice color selection.
Here are a few areas I'd change/adjust:
You need to add the small scoops to the side of the forward cowling. The bump map is great for replicating these details.
The yellow on the lower cowling did not come higher than the exhaust stacks.
This aircraft did not have the kidney shaped bulges on the tops of the wings. Also those bulges are only on G-4 and later 109's.
Change the cannon muzzle from gray/silver to black. It will improve the look of the spinner from the front.
I think the gun smoke in the MG trench is too dark.
Here's a very esoteric detail: there is no horizontal panel line on the engine cowling. It is a carry-over from the K-4 template.
Nice to see you skinning again. :salute
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More stuff I noticed:
There should be no fuel hatch and fuel grade triangle under the canopy. Those are only found on the F model.
There should be no round hatch under the data plate. Also a F model only detail.
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:aok
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The skin looks great Larry. I don't know much about 109 details, but if you have any questions about the AH3 file format please ask. Its nice to see another active skinner in the game, welcome back.
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Looks great, Larry!
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Here is an update. Devil as for the stencils. I guess when I made this template about four years ago I copied my F4 stencils into the G2 file because they were exactly the same.
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz243/lbozeman1986/left_zpsk70wxyqh.png)
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz243/lbozeman1986/right_zpshqcxdpgs.png)
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Looking good.
Now that I can see the right side there are more hatches and stencils to remove. Both oval hatches on the upper rear fuselage of the right side and their corresponding triangle stencils. Those are found on late G-6 and after.
I believe the default F-4 skin has those incorrect details, which is why they are so prevalent on the skins in AH.
Also, it looks like you removed the data plate instead of the hatch beneath it. This needed to be opposite. I referenced the data plate only to easier locate the hatch.
is there a fuel filler hatch on the left fuselage near the spine? It does not appear to be there. Should be just above where you have the triangle decal.
Another detail absent is the hole in the right cowling for the starting crank.
Here's a good pic for reference.
(http://447.insidetrackmagazine.com/wp-content/gallery/bf-109-g-2_trop-raf-museum-2008/Bf-109-G-2_trop-RAF-museum-2008-0388.jpg)
also note that there is a half-moon shaped indented vent just below and aft of the round hatch. It's hard to see in the photo.
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I do not know what time of day you took the shots, but it would be nice to see some showing the specular/power of the skin. The screenshots look rather flat. It may not be that way, but the screenshots appear that way.
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You can see the reflections off the cowling, wing root, aileron, etc.
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I do not know what time of day you took the shots, but it would be nice to see some showing the specular/power of the skin. The screenshots look rather flat. It may not be that way, but the screenshots appear that way.
Ill mess with the Specular and power files when I get off work and post some updates.
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Flat paints should have very spread out glare (power map lighter) and not be too bright (spec map darker) where the Sun is being reflected.
I think I said that right. :)
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Flat paints should have very spread out glare (power map lighter) and not be too bright (spec map darker) where the Sun is being reflected.
I think I said that right. :)
I think so, too.
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I do not know what time of day you took the shots, but it would be nice to see some showing the specular/power of the skin. The screenshots look rather flat. It may not be that way, but the screenshots appear that way.
You can see the reflections off the cowling, wing root, aileron, etc.
I’m an idiot. I thought were talking about the photo. *facepalm*
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Flat paints should have very spread out glare (power map lighter) and not be too bright (spec map darker) where the Sun is being reflected.
That isn't right. Flat paints should have a spread out glare but you have to make the power map darker to achieve this.
In general I have the specular map a bit lighter than the power or environment maps for matt or satin aircraft paint. On a scale of 0-256 where 0 is black the shades of grey I use are roughly 20-30 for the power and environment and 50-60 for the specular.
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That isn't right. Flat paints should have a spread out glare but you have to make the power map darker to achieve this.
In general I have the specular map a bit lighter than the power or environment maps for matt or satin aircraft paint. On a scale of 0-256 where 0 is black the shades of grey I use are roughly 20-30 for the power and environment and 50-60 for the specular.
That's what I get for asking Waffle. It did not sound right to me either. Thank you Greebo.
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Power maps are inverted.
My metal is dark and my paint is light on the Power map.
:headscratch:
Are you telling me the opposite, G?
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That's what I get for asking Waffle. It did not sound right to me either. Thank you Greebo.
I think you are still right.
Paint is light. Metal is dark. On the Power map.
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I think you are still right.
Paint is light. Metal is dark. On the Power map.
I use dark for paint and very dark for metal on the P map.
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I use dark for paint and very dark for metal on the P map.
Same here. Metal is almost black. Paint is dark dark gray. Relatively speaking paint is lighter.
I have noticed that in some ways black and white behave the same. It's almost as if they meet.
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I love confusion. It just brings out the best of things that make you shake your head and ponder, while all the while wondering who might be having a good laugh at your expense. :)
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Alright so for the specular map I use lightish darkish and for the power make I make it darkish lightish. Got it! :aok :rofl
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I bet you figure it out. :)
Personally, I am going with Greebo on this one.
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I bet you figure it out. :)
Personally, I am going with Greebo on this one.
Not me.
I think it’s possible both are correct*, but Devil’s methods work for my skins, metal and painted.
My metal is black, my paint is light(er).
Alright so for the specular map I use lightish darkish and for the power make I make it darkish lightish. Got it! :aok :rofl
Take your Diffuse, convert it to grayscale, then make a negative image. Darken that as appropriate. That’s a good start for the Power map.
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* I believe pure white and pure black behave the same way on certain skin maps.
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Take your Diffuse, convert it to grayscale, then make a negative image. Darken that as appropriate. That’s a good start for the Power map.
Not a very good method.
For example, smoke stains are dark on the diffuse, and need to be also be dark in the spec maps to get a flat finish.
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Not a very good method.
For example, smoke stains are dark on the diffuse, and need to be also be dark in the spec maps to get a flat finish.
It’s a starting point. You have to adjust individual layers from there. It’s a great method, especially when I want something quick and dirty to replace the default.
Generally I adjust the layers in grayscale on the SPECULAR BEFORE I do the negative image for the Power map. You don’t do negative image for the Spec map. You do it for the POWER map.
And they don’t have to be dark either. If they’re white it has the same effect. Try it.
1) Make your Spec map from a grayscale of the diffuse.
2) Adjust each layer relative to the others (before you darken it).
3) Make a negative for the Power and darken it 15% three times for NMF. Maybe 20% once for paint like OD.
For a quick look you can skip step two. Adjust the final relative specularity AFTER you finalize your diffuse.
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You can't make blanket statements on a procedure - especially when trying to teach it. Also, never teach a short-cut before the proper method. That is a reckless way to go about things.
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You can't make blanket statements on a procedure - especially when trying to teach it. Also, never teach a short-cut before the proper method. That is a reckless way to go about things.
It’s not reckless.
And it works.
Don’t save time if you don’t want to. I’ve shown this technique to others and they love it. Do it the hard way if you prefer.
I’ll say it again. A darkened negative image of your grayscale diffuse is a great starting point for your Power Map. Darkened gray scales of the diffuse also work great for the Environment and Spec Maps.
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I've done a little test to illustrate the effect of the power map. The screenshots below show the same skin viewed at the same angle. The only difference is that the upper screenshot shows the skin with a pure white power map and the lower with a pure black one. As you can see the pure white power map gives a much more focused highlight and the lower black one a lot more spread out.
I do agree with everyone that the power map should be fairly close to black for both paint and NMF surfaces in AH but on my skins the paint is a little darker than the NMF. The only thing I make light on that map are glass and highly reflective gear pistons. The specular map is where I have the biggest contrast between paint and NMF.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393709.0;attach=30267)
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These are Paint Shop Pro numbers, but you should try this, Larry.
For NMF Skins:
Specular = Diffuse in Grayscale, Adjust Brightness -15%
Environment = Diffuse in Grayscale, Adjust Brightness -15%, -15% (mathematically this is probably -32% once)
Power = Diffuse in Grayscale, Negative Image, Brightness -15%, -15%, -15% (mathematically this is probably -52% once)
For painted airplanes use -18% for Specular or so, -20% for Environment, and for Power. . . I forget now but try a few things ten percent at a time.
Particularly if you use the Skin Viewer this will give you a good idea what things look like while you're drawing. Obviously you'll have to make final adjustments based on what the game view looks like.
It's worth a shot. Others have had luck with this method. Customize it for your software.
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It’s not reckless.
And it works.
Don’t save time if you don’t want to. I’ve shown this technique to others and they love it. Do it the hard way if you prefer.
I’ll say it again. A darkened negative image of your grayscale diffuse is a great starting point for your Power Map. Darkened gray scales of the diffuse also work great for the Environment and Spec Maps.
The funny thing is that your method is actually harder than mine.
My method for spec maps is simple.
Bottom layer is entirely the desired shade for painted surfaces (dark gray).
All other elements are then set to black or white on their individual layer and that layers opacity is adjusted to create a gray shade for the drsired sheen. Simply decide if an element needs to be more glossy(white) or flatter(black) than the base paint.
For example, for smoke stains I change the smoke from sooty brown to black. For oil streaks, I change the color from dark olive to white and reduce that layer's opacity until I get a light gray that I want. I can easily make adjustments just by using the opacity slider.
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I've done a little test to illustrate the effect of the power map. The screenshots below show the same skin viewed at the same angle. The only difference is that the upper screenshot shows the skin with a pure white power map and the lower with a pure black one. As you can see the pure white power map gives a much more focused highlight and the lower black one a lot more spread out.
I do agree with everyone that the power map should be fairly close to black for both paint and NMF surfaces in AH but on my skins the paint is a little darker than the NMF. The only thing I make light on that map are glass and highly reflective gear pistons. The specular map is where I have the biggest contrast between paint and NMF.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393709.0;attach=30267)
That's a good illustration.
I'll have to play around with it some.
How does your Environment map look on those? Is it black?
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The funny thing is that your method is actually harder than mine.
My method for spec maps is simple.
Bottom layer is entirely the desired shade for painted surfaces (very dark).
All other elements are then set to black or white on their individual layer and that layers opacity is adjusted to create a gray shade for the drsired sheen. Simply decide if an element needs to be more glossy(white) or flatter(black) than the base paint.
For example, for smoke stains I change the smoke from sooty brown to black. For oil streaks, I change the color from dark olive to white and reduce that layer's opacity until I get a light gray that I want. I can easily make adjustments just by using the opacity slider.
So your map is almost plain?
I tried that on mine and it didn't look as good as leaving some variations in.
Are you drawing a map from scratch for each plane type?
My method takes less than sixty seconds to do three maps for a quick look. It's taking me longer to type this paragraph than to make those maps. Final settings take only a fraction longer since the major adjustments are done on the Spec map at the very end.
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how plain does this look to you?
(https://s6.postimg.cc/meuj9468x/P40b1_P.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/ythb9fxr1/)
The only thing I did not include on this example are markings, which I only do if reference photos show a distinct difference in sheen from the base paint.
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Much more plain than mine. (That's not a slam.) Not sure how to post them since my phone won't save in the proper format.
Where does this map come from? Is it built from scratch?
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That's the Pmap from my P-40C. It is completely from scratch using layers from my P-40C diffuse file.
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That's the Pmap from my P-40C. It is completely from scratch using layers from my P-40C diffuse file.
That's what I thought.
I do the same thing except I just Grayscale my Diffuse and delete layers I don't want and save it as a new file. I adjust opacity and brightness on the rest for the final product.
If I need to get rid of details for a layer I just darken them all the way, close, open, adjust. Makes it look like yours does (a solid color) when appropriate. I don't have to cut and paste (unless I make a change after the final adjustment phase—which saves time).
But if I want a quick look I don't adjust anything. I just bang out three quick files to replace the defaults. Final adjustments come later and overall brightness is applied only to the single layer bitmap at the very end. It's ridiculously fast. The biggest problem is figuring out what shades things should be. The test Greebo just did means more experimentation now.
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That's a good illustration.
I'll have to play around with it some.
How does your Environment map look on those? Is it black?
The power and environment maps are both quite dark on my current skins for paint and metal but with the NMF areas a bit less dark than the painted areas. On the specular map painted areas are lighter and NMF areas a lot lighter than on those maps. I tend to ramp up the dirt effects on the specular map to give the reflections some variation.
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Thanks for taking the time to do that Greebo. Perfect.
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The power and environment maps are both quite dark on my current skins for paint and metal but with the NMF areas a bit less dark than the painted areas. On the specular map painted areas are lighter and NMF areas a lot lighter than on those maps. I tend to ramp up the dirt effects on the specular map to give the reflections some variation.
Interesting.
I will need to mess with this more when I get home. I'm also dealing with the bug in the P-51B Environment map so that could be a factor in what I'm seeing.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,393627.msg5223245.html#msg5223245
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Thanks for taking the time to do that Greebo. Perfect.
Yeah, It's good stuff.
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How does this look?
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Looking better but I will leave the critiques to the experts. It's a tad shiny in some ways, with sharp reflections. Too darkly lighty. Lol
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Try making the painted areas on the power map very dark grey to spread out the reflections more.
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Much too shiny for me, Larry.
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What about now.
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Way better.
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Yes, better.
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A lot better.
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All right unless you all see something I should change Ill submit it tomorrow.
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Looks good to me.
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All right unless you all see something I should change Ill submit it tomorrow.
The one thing I see is a color shift where the right fuselage and the top cowling meet. Same on the other side. I have this issue on P-51s and it can be a PITA to hide.
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I see this too. It is usually the result of those pieces not being the same darkness on noise/texture/weathering layers.