Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: qbert55ca on November 19, 2010, 09:31:41 PM
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I've been playing this game for about a year now and it has become a big part of my daily routine. For me, and as evidenced by the declining numbers may other players found the changes made to the game strategy brought out by the update in the town graphics and subsequent degree of difficulty in taking a base, I found the game to be frustrating instead of fun. The failure of the WW1 forums should have been enough evidence that to a good portion of the game is base capture and the winning of maps is as important if not more than what your overall rank is. With this latest change I can just see this a a typical scenario...
(You come in and start playing a 1PM only to have the game change a 3PM just as you were about to get a base you had been working on for the last 2 hours, only to be told sorry gents we got to switch to the night arena you'll have to finish tomorrow, and don't forget to be there at 4am or the base you had sweatted your butt off to get will be back up.)
It's already bad enough that Titanic Tuesdays mean nothing more than score hoarding because taking a base means nothing.
AH, I'm pissed and I hate to say this but unless the games changes make the game fun to play then there is no point in playing the game.
Robert
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Wait!!!
Popcorn - Check
Beer - Check
Comfy Chair - Check
Ok, begin.
(Hope you have your flameproof underwear on qbert)
Wurzel
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For me, and as evidenced by the declining numbers may other players found the changes made to the game strategy brought out by the update in the town graphics and subsequent degree of difficulty in taking a base, I found the game to be frustrating instead of fun
I have tracked & recorded the actual numbers over the past years. The new towns had only a measurable impact on the (already minor) EW population.
The decline in numbers in the LW (which accounts for about 90% of the action) has been gradually and started long (about 2-3 years!) before there towns had been upgraded
There are many more reasons to it than one or two gameplay / design decisions.
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Wish I had a <Face Palm> image handy.
What you are saying in essence is make the game easier, in particular base taking, or you are gonna take your ball and go home?
Might I suggest trying some other aspects of the game? Might want to challenge yourself is something like....say....Air Combat? There can be some real immediate satisfaction from winning a good dogfight.
If that's not your kinda thing, maybe hop in a GV and try some tank to tank combat? Again the satisfaction might come from defeating another individual player or six in an armor battle.
If that doesn't work, you might imagine yourself a wartime bomber pilot. Load up your bomber of choice and go deep to see how accurate you can drop your bombs. Pretend you are going to Berlin in your 17s. You could fight off enemy fighters enroute, put your bombs in the 'pickle barrel" and fight your way home, landing your damaged bomber knowing you've fought the good fight and your crew has lived to fight another day.
Might want to consider becoming Captain Qbert USN if it so fits. Bombard shore targets, get the ack up to fight off an incoming raid on your ships and maybe even engage in a surface battle against another fleet. Just think. Maybe you can 'cross the T' and wipe out the other guys ships.
Oh the possibilities! :)
That or take your ball and go home. It is just a game after all
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Although I miss defending against the ever present NOES. (RIP)
The P-51 alt monkey hit and run types have pretty much killed this game for me.
One foot out the door. :bolt:
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Lighten up francis :neener:
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And it is his first topic on the BBS.
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Take it easy Qbert , always liked your enthusiam. :aok
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Where is AKAK with his "realistic" troll when you need it? :noid
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because taking a base means nothing.
My friends tell me that many of the men-in-tights MMPGs that are so popular do not involve people fighting people, but rather place all of the real people on one side, cooperating with each other to fight the AI.
I think this explains much about the perspectives of the newer people in our player base.
- oldman
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I've been playing this game for about a year now and it has become a big part of my daily routine. For me, and as evidenced by the declining numbers may other players found the changes made to the game strategy brought out by the update in the town graphics and subsequent degree of difficulty in taking a base, I found the game to be frustrating instead of fun. The failure of the WW1 forums should have been enough evidence that to a good portion of the game is base capture and the winning of maps is as important if not more than what your overall rank is. With this latest change I can just see this a a typical scenario...
(You come in and start playing a 1PM only to have the game change a 3PM just as you were about to get a base you had been working on for the last 2 hours, only to be told sorry gents we got to switch to the night arena you'll have to finish tomorrow, and don't forget to be there at 4am or the base you had sweatted your butt off to get will be back up.)
It's already bad enough that Titanic Tuesdays mean nothing more than score hoarding because taking a base means nothing.
AH, I'm pissed and I hate to say this but unless the games changes make the game fun to play then there is no point in playing the game.
Robert
qbert? Is that you? After all this time, I thought that I'd never see you again! However, is this behaviour befitting of a gentleman of Duxford Wing? I don't think so. Sir, you have no idea the frustration I've felt in this game, but do you see me break down and whine? No, I find a way around it, just like any upstanding pilot ought to.
Thus I pose you the question, are you a gentleman or a whiner?
-Penguin
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You got the aceshigh burn out big dawg. :aok
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Although I miss defending against the ever present NOES. (RIP)
The P-51 alt monkey hit and run types have pretty much killed this game for me.
One foot out the door. :bolt:
What...you can't get a K4 and catch em or climb up there with them? :rolleyes:
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I've been playing this game for about a year now and it has become a big part of my daily routine. For me, and as evidenced by the declining numbers may other players found the changes made to the game strategy brought out by the update in the town graphics and subsequent degree of difficulty in taking a base, I found the game to be frustrating instead of fun. The failure of the WW1 forums should have been enough evidence that to a good portion of the game is base capture and the winning of maps is as important if not more than what your overall rank is. With this latest change I can just see this a a typical scenario...
(You come in and start playing a 1PM only to have the game change a 3PM just as you were about to get a base you had been working on for the last 2 hours, only to be told sorry gents we got to switch to the night arena you'll have to finish tomorrow, and don't forget to be there at 4am or the base you had sweatted your butt off to get will be back up.)
It's already bad enough that Titanic Tuesdays mean nothing more than score hoarding because taking a base means nothing.
AH, I'm pissed and I hate to say this but unless the games changes make the game fun to play then there is no point in playing the game.
Robert
Basically, you want the game dumbed down to make it easier for you. JOACH1M posting under a shade account?
ack-ack
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And it is his first topic on the BBS.
For a first one, it's a whopper. Though, I've always recommended getting some posts under your belt before posting a flame inducing whine thread.
ack-ack
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I've been playing this game for about a year now and it has become a big part of my daily routine. For me, and as evidenced by the declining numbers may other players found the changes made to the game strategy brought out by the update in the town graphics and subsequent degree of difficulty in taking a base, I found the game to be frustrating instead of fun. The failure of the WW1 forums should have been enough evidence that to a good portion of the game is base capture and the winning of maps is as important if not more than what your overall rank is. With this latest change I can just see this a a typical scenario...
(You come in and start playing a 1PM only to have the game change a 3PM just as you were about to get a base you had been working on for the last 2 hours, only to be told sorry gents we got to switch to the night arena you'll have to finish tomorrow, and don't forget to be there at 4am or the base you had sweatted your butt off to get will be back up.)
It's already bad enough that Titanic Tuesdays mean nothing more than score hoarding because taking a base means nothing.
AH, I'm pissed and I hate to say this but unless the games changes make the game fun to play then there is no point in playing the game.
Robert
If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.
I hear there is a new Barney game coming out that may be more to your liking. :)
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I'm still pissed about the $20 "Claw" :furious :P
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I don't even know what Rule# I want to see here in my reply...................
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:old: the game is fun, ur just tripping qbert.
ps if ya wanna whine gimme ur internet connection n a desktop :aok
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Basically, you want the game dumbed down to make it easier for you. JOACH1M posting under a shade account?
ack-ack
WTF why do u think ima a shade, if I am then what was my old name I'd love to know, u and your realistic non-sence and brin your misery somewhere else
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AH, I'm pissed and I hate to say this but unless the games changes make the game fun to play then there is no point in playing the game.
Robert
Does it matter if it's a first post or a last post, no the topic is straight forward and valid. It's not about making the game easier like some of you think and it's not about whining as some other of you think. It's a straight forward expression to the developers of AH changing the game to a point that I no longer get any pleasure in playing it. Some will see it my way and agree, others will not and want to ridicule me for my view. In actual fact, I don't care what any of you think, I was asked to post my thought by my CO and I did so.
Again, AH I'm pissedthat you have changed this gamed to the point where it is no longer any fun to play.
Robert
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:rofl :rofl Ack-Ack.
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Does it matter if it's a first post or a last post, no the topic is straight forward and valid. It's not about making the game easier like some of you think and it's not about whining as some other of you think. It's a straight forward expression to the developers of AH changing the game to a point that I no longer get any pleasure in playing it. Some will see it my way and agree, others will not and want to ridicule me for my view. In actual fact, I don't care what any of you think, I was asked to post my thought by my CO and I did so.
Again, AH I'm pissedthat you have changed this gamed to the point where it is no longer any fun to play.
Robert
You weren't taking a base when the switch happened, you were by your field in a GV. Your whining about stuff that hasn't even happened yet. Next time wait for the stuff your afraid will happen to actually happen before you start on some big rant.
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Qbert dont look at the map as the game. Its the fights not the real estate that matters. If you cant bounce from one arena to another without having the same amount of fun, you are doing it wrong.
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AH I'm pissedthat you have changed this gamed to the point where it is no longer any fun to play for me because I want to win in the easiest way possible. For everyone else it seems pretty good! :aok
Robert
Fixed!
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Does it matter if it's a first post or a last post, no the topic is straight forward and valid. It's not about making the game easier like some of you think and it's not about whining as some other of you think. It's a straight forward expression to the developers of AH changing the game to a point that I no longer get any pleasure in playing it. Some will see it my way and agree, others will not and want to ridicule me for my view. In actual fact, I don't care what any of you think, I was asked to post my thought by my CO and I did so.
Again, AH I'm pissedthat you have changed this gamed to the point where it is no longer any fun to play.
Robert
What is it you like(d) to do that you can no longer do?
wrongway
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Does it matter if it's a first post or a last post, no the topic is straight forward and valid. It's not about making the game easier like some of you think and it's not about whining as some other of you think. It's a straight forward expression to the developers of AH changing the game to a point that I no longer get any pleasure in playing it. Some will see it my way and agree, others will not and want to ridicule me for my view. In actual fact, I don't care what any of you think, I was asked to post my thought by my CO and I did so.
Again, AH I'm pissedthat you have changed this gamed to the point where it is no longer any fun to play.
Robert
We've got more planes, tanks etc and more options then ever. What can't you do that you could before, beyond take a base really fast against no opposition?
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I have tracked & recorded the actual numbers over the past years. The new towns had only a measurable impact on the (already minor) EW population.
The decline in numbers in the LW (which accounts for about 90% of the action) has been gradually and started long (about 2-3 years!) before there towns had been upgraded
There are many more reasons to it than one or two gameplay / design decisions.
Where's the graph ?
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:rofl :rofl Ack-Ack.
:devil
ack-ack
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WTF why do u think ima a shade, if I am then what was my old name I'd love to know, u and your realistic non-sence and brin your misery somewhere else
Just stop please. For the love of all fishermen.
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For a first one, it's a whopper. Though, I've always recommended getting some posts under your belt before posting a flame inducing whine thread.
ack-ack
Got any pointers?
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Got any pointers?
Avoid all hooks. Walk in expecting to smell bait.
But bite some times just to counter the troll. :aok :noid
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I agree with qbert. Game is awesome game play sucks. Game is supposed to be about combat not farming. Want to farm go play farmville. All you clowns do anymore is come in at 20k in spixteens and Lgays and then,when u lose your alt and e u run to your nearest base and hide in the ack, or u up 190s or a mossi's and see how many people u can ho b4 u die or u up bombers and shut down bases where a almost good fight is going on with no intent of taking the base. Yet all of you are so quick to point fingers at others and judge everybody from your high horses about how lame each other are and how much bigger and better you are then them (funny how everybody that plays Aces High is 6' 5" tall and 300+ pounds of pure muscle). LOL get over yourselves you spend the majority of your time playing a fricking video game I assure you none of you almighty gamers are better then anybody including myself.
enjoy flaming me on spelling grammar and whatever
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Avoid all hooks. Walk in expecting to smell bait.
But bite some times just to counter the troll. :aok :noid
:rofl
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(funny how everybody that plays Aces High is 6' 5" tall (...)).
Not me, I'm actually taller than that :D
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Not me, I'm actually taller than that :D
You been sneaking in Silat's high heel closet again?
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Got any pointers?
This example (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,255725.0.html) would be a good place to start.
ack-ack
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It's funny, but I was actually contemplating this the other day when searching for a fight that wasn't us vulching a base, or our base being vulched.
It occurred to me that this is really the only game I've ever played that truly doesn't have an underlying "goal." I mean, sure, the "goal" is to win the war, but the community has bashed that concept into the ground so hard that you are seemingly a bad, bad person if you try to win the war. I understand that the game is about combat, but isn't combat based around the idea of making forward progress towards a goal? I mean, why fight if there is nothing to fight for?
Some of the most fun I've ever had in this game is in large base-rolling missions (as dweeby as it may be) with a group a guys that you build comradery with. It starts a little awkward and almost too serious, but as it goes on people start laughing and ultimately having a great time, and new relationships build from it. I remember back when I was new and used to play a lot, I would have people on country flying near me spontaneously say, "Hey! Sector! What's up man?" all because of a previous mission and the fun we had. It really did help make the game dynamic and fun.
I do agree that the current gameplay style has gotten stale and outdated. It no longer really offers an incentive to fight for a particular target or hit the strats because you are apparently the "fun police" if you do so.
I have a couple of ideas that I'm curious to see comments on (not necessarily a package deal, just a general offering of ideas):
1) Base taking: I wonder if perhaps the age old "path of least resistance" in AH could be fixed by designing the bases on each country to only be taken in a certain order (could have several different paths per side). Now I know this removes some of the sandbox elements, but if you think about it, you'd kill several birds with one stone.
-People would be forced to fight if they wanted to take a base, since the enemy knows which bases could come next.
-Would create an environment where teamwork would be crucial to the success of the team as a whole. If there is an uncoordinated attack on a base, the defense will probably prevail.
-Would hugely emphasize the use of tactics to limit the enemy's ability to defend or attack effectively (just because you can't take a base, doesn't mean you can't attack it!). Destroy supplies at nearby bases to limit the base's "regenerative abilities," knock out ord to keep them from counter-attacking, etc.
2) Base point value: Different bases are worth different values. This would work similar to ENY; if a country is getting the snot pounded out of them and have fewer bases than the other teams, then their bases are worth less points. There would then be a base point value that the country would have to achieve in order to win the war. This will keep that one poor country from getting pummeled while the other two ignore each other. The point value could also have to do with base size and location in some way as well.
3) Remove the ability to take down hangers completely. I think the fact that you can remove a base's ability to defend it's self completely is a bit lame, and detrimental to game play. Perhaps instead of fighter hangers removing the ability to use fighters, how bout destroyed hangers raise the ENY of available fighters at that particular base. So say you bomb down one hanger, ENY for fighters at that base goes up to 10, 2; 15, all 3; 20, etc. Lets make those people fight HARD to take that base, this will make base takes much more meaningful.
I'm exhausted, so I'm going to wrap this up. But yeah, my $0.02.
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You weren't taking a base when the switch happened, you were by your field in a GV. Your whining about stuff that hasn't even happened yet. Next time wait for the stuff your afraid will happen to actually happen before you start on some big rant.
This :aok
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I've been playing this game for about a year now and it has become a big part of my daily routine. For me, and as evidenced by the declining numbers may other players found the changes made to the game strategy brought out by the update in the town graphics and subsequent degree of difficulty in taking a base, I found the game to be frustrating instead of fun. The failure of the WW1 forums should have been enough evidence that to a good portion of the game is base capture and the winning of maps is as important if not more than what your overall rank is. With this latest change I can just see this a a typical scenario...
(You come in and start playing a 1PM only to have the game change a 3PM just as you were about to get a base you had been working on for the last 2 hours, only to be told sorry gents we got to switch to the night arena you'll have to finish tomorrow, and don't forget to be there at 4am or the base you had sweatted your butt off to get will be back up.)
It's already bad enough that Titanic Tuesdays mean nothing more than score hoarding because taking a base means nothing.
AH, I'm pissed and I hate to say this but unless the games changes make the game fun to play then there is no point in playing the game.
Robert
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/11/6/2640314/download.jpg)
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Although I miss defending against the ever present NOES. (RIP)
The P-51 alt monkey hit and run types have pretty much killed this game for me.
One foot out the door. :bolt:
i know somwone';s gonna jum on me for trhis.......try the AvA dood.
you might not be able to fly your ride of choice, but the set is constantly rotating, as are the maps. fighting is the name of the day. there's a lot of good sticks in there
the only drawback to that arena, is that it's a bit quirky as to when you'll find decent numbers in there.
so far i've had the best luck at aroun 8-9 eastern, till about 11 eastern........
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Basically, you want the game dumbed down to make it easier for you.
Way to miss the point sailing twenty feet over your head.
He never said he wanted "the game" to be easier for HIM. Everybody else plays by the same rules. Everybody would be equally affected. And he's not talking about the flight model, or making his bullets act like heat-seaking howitzer rounds, or any other aspect of the game related to the simulation of air combat.
I think all fans would agree that baseball would not be a better game if the outfield fence was 800 feet from home plate. Football would not be a better game if it took 30 yards to get a first down rather than ten. Basketball wouldn't be a better game if the rim was 30 feet off the ground (though some might consider 12 feet an improvement...) Complaining about the rules if any of those changes was instituted wouldn't be about "dumbing down" the game or making it easier for any particular player.
The point is that in any game there is a proper balance between offense and defense that leads to the best gameplay. The OP was saying that balance is out of whack in AH, it has only been made worse by recent changes, and a lot of players are unhappy and may leave as a result - not because it's "too hard" for him to get kills or compete with other players but because gameplay is suffering due to the inability for anyone to achieve any strategic results.
Whether you agree or disagree, deliberately misunderstanding the OP's argument and arguing like a 2-year-old in response isn't helpful.
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Enjoy flaming me on spelling, grammar, or whatever.
FIXED :devil
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I1) Base taking: I wonder if perhaps the age old "path of least resistance" in AH could be fixed by designing the bases on each country to only be taken in a certain order (could have several different paths per side). Now I know this removes some of the sandbox elements, but if you think about it, you'd kill several birds with one stone.
-People would be forced to fight if they wanted to take a base, since the enemy knows which bases could come next.
-Would create an environment where teamwork would be crucial to the success of the team as a whole. If there is an uncoordinated attack on a base, the defense will probably prevail.
-Would hugely emphasize the use of tactics to limit the enemy's ability to defend or attack effectively (just because you can't take a base, doesn't mean you can't attack it!). Destroy supplies at nearby bases to limit the base's "regenerative abilities," knock out ord to keep them from counter-attacking, etc.
It has been tried.
The whine here was, how can you sneek a base if you know the order in which the bases must be taken?
After all, we don't want to have to fight anyone, do we?
Look what happened when the dar circles were enlarged.
"...But they'll know where we are...."
wrongway
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2) Base point value: Different bases are worth different values. This would work similar to ENY; if a country is getting the snot pounded out of them and have fewer bases than the other teams, then their bases are worth less points. There would then be a base point value that the country would have to achieve in order to win the war. This will keep that one poor country from getting pummeled while the other two ignore each other. The point value could also have to do with base size and location in some way as well.
I'm neither for or against this - I just don't think it will have an appreciable positive impact. Folks are going to vulch the underdogs all night regardless.
3) Remove the ability to take down hangers completely. I think the fact that you can remove a base's ability to defend it's self completely is a bit lame, and detrimental to game play. Perhaps instead of fighter hangers removing the ability to use fighters, how bout destroyed hangers raise the ENY of available fighters at that particular base. So say you bomb down one hanger, ENY for fighters at that base goes up to 10, 2; 15, all 3; 20, etc. Lets make those people fight HARD to take that base, this will make base takes much more meaningful.
Good thinking outside the box - bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad idea. Once they first hanger went down, you'd instantly be limited in terms of your defensive ability, instead of the 3 strikes your out we have now. And as a result, what would happen is that guys would drop two or 3 hangers, keep all the fighter hangers down, and then vulch the snot out of the 109F/E's, A6M2's and Spit I's that the opponent's would launch for the rest of the night. Repeat as the fighter hangers pop.
<S>
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It has been tried.
The whine here was, how can you sneek a base if you know the order in which the bases must be taken?
After all, we don't want to have to fight anyone, do we?
Look what happened when the dar circles were enlarged.
"...But they'll know where we are...."
wrongway
The problem is that this game has to walk a knife edge that most MMORG's don't. On the one hand, sneaking kills gameplay - too much of it means that it's tough to ever find a fight because the whack-a-mole is gone by the time you get there. On the other hand, hording kills game play too - too many in too big of a bunch too much of the time makes it nearly impossible for someone who's not a member of a huge group (read a "mega-squad" member) to accomplish anything meaningful.
And almost anything you do to limit whack-a-mole avoidance of any combat increases the hording problems, and vice-versa. Sucks, but there it is.
<S>
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(You come in and start playing a 1PM only to have the game change a 3PM just as you were about to get a base you had been working on for the last 2 hours, only to be told sorry gents we got to switch to the night arena you'll have to finish tomorrow, and don't forget to be there at 4am or the base you had sweatted your butt off to get will be back up.)
It's already bad enough that Titanic Tuesdays mean nothing more than score hoarding because taking a base means nothing.
if anything, the new system is more accomodating to map resetters than it was before.. Before, you only had a week to "win" a map before it was reset for TT. now, your progress is saved each day. including tuesday..
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In all seriousness...anyone that has let this game become a part of their personal-needs-life-category or uses it to judge their worth needs to get some help...real help. Wow.
Changeup
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Way to miss the point sailing twenty feet over your head.
He never said he wanted "the game" to be easier for HIM. Everybody else plays by the same rules. Everybody would be equally affected. And he's not talking about the flight model, or making his bullets act like heat-seaking howitzer rounds, or any other aspect of the game related to the simulation of air combat.
I think all fans would agree that baseball would not be a better game if the outfield fence was 800 feet from home plate. Football would not be a better game if it took 30 yards to get a first down rather than ten. Basketball wouldn't be a better game if the rim was 30 feet off the ground (though some might consider 12 feet an improvement...) Complaining about the rules if any of those changes was instituted wouldn't be about "dumbing down" the game or making it easier for any particular player.
The point is that in any game there is a proper balance between offense and defense that leads to the best gameplay. The OP was saying that balance is out of whack in AH, it has only been made worse by recent changes, and a lot of players are unhappy and may leave as a result - not because it's "too hard" for him to get kills or compete with other players but because gameplay is suffering due to the inability for anyone to achieve any strategic results.
Whether you agree or disagree, deliberately misunderstanding the OP's argument and arguing like a 2-year-old in response isn't helpful.
+1
Couldn't agree more.
Bases are too difficult to take in a global strategic sense. Yeah, it can be done, but it requires too many people and too much time to be worth a damn on a map sized for 2000 players.
Bases used to be very easy to capture but what many of you here fail to understand is how that promoted a goal oriented game. Players could actually make an impact in the war with just a couple friends. Heck me and bipolar used to try and sneak bases just the two of us from time to time and it was a blast. Sometimes a few of us muppets would NOE raid a base deep into enemy territory and then defend the hell out of it and call it an "Alamo Mission". That part of the game is dead.
Another failure of this game is to tie in the size of the map to the difficulty of capturing a base. How many large maps have been won since the newest town updates? You get one week to win a war(before the cap update anyway)...I highly doubt a large map has been won, in fact I doubt a large map hasn't even been close to being won.
Not a very organized post, but just a few random thoughts regarding how the new towns have negatively effected the game.
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What...you can't get a K4 and catch em or climb up there with them? :rolleyes:
Sure I could. :rolleyes:
But I'm gettin kind of sick of wasting my time climbing to and chasing guys who hide from the fights using altitude.
Thats the reason I used to love defending against NOEs,win or lose you could up and have a bunch of quick fights.
Sadly, those days are gone.
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The OP is frustrated, I get that. I don't think the change in the arenas is the cause. It could be that he averages over 100 hours of game play a month this being 10% of the whole squads time in the air meaning he doesn't always have that squad power behind him and helping to grab the next base. Thus frustration....if the main line of your play is base capture.
On the other hand as Guppy said there is so much more to this game.
DMGOD, complaint about the hit run wusses is closer to the mark I think, though he knows I don't fall under that blanket...you got me what 3 times on that one run in your 110? :cry The point is that game play has changed, alot!
Years ago, before the Lusche graph era, game play was a lot different than it is now, and I can see the changes HTC has made to try and get some of that back. In the old days there was squad rivalries. Squad were very rarely more than the one wing, and you could count on at least 1 if not 3 or 4 being your "bestest" enemy. Those squads that you would spend the whole night banging heads with.
Maps were small, and each base was important, so squads would defend them. Sure you could try and capture bases for the win, but the enemy was just as good as you and could capture them as fast. You can't win the war if you loose a base for each one you grab. We knew this and defense was almost as important a grab because of it. Grabbing bases or defending bases, both generated fights. Today, most players are looking to grab bases as fast as they can because that is the be all and end all of their game. Most haven't a hope in hell to see a reset. So the "win" is the base grab, not the war, nor the save of a base.
Of the recent changes, lowering dar took away "easy NOEs" they are more easily spotted. This makes it easyer for other to spot them so they are more prone to defend just because it's another place to fight. The new towns do the same, only they do it due to size. Old days a few 110's could drop a town in minutes and troops were running before anyone could get there to fight. Now the town takes longer to flatten and thus more people have time to defend/fight.
So while I see the changes as HTC trying to bring back these smaller fights like we use to have with the small squads going head to head, I can see the OP's frustration. His game has always been hit quick and and grab another base because that IS his end game. Now he has to work for it and in his year of playing hasn't built the skills he needs to rise to the occasion. Without his squad it's NOT FUN ANY MORE.
I for one am VERY glad of the changes. Anything that adds more fights, IS more fun. I'm hoping that those hit and run ponys take the time to learn a few ACM's and start employing them. It will take time, but those that still want to grab their bases will learn to fight for them. You may loose a battle because the arena reset will come just before you win a base, but you will win a few just before the arena reset too. In the end it will even out. But the fight I'm happy to say looks like it is coming back to the game.
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Well said T.F.
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The same guys who ignored "easy" Noes then, still ignore them today.
And I'm guessing they are the same ones who would whine about guys taking"undefended" bases as THEY swoop down into a fight from 15k to pick and climb.
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The same guys who ignored "easy" Noes then, still ignore them today.
And I'm guessing they are the same ones who would whine about guys taking"undefended" bases as THEY swoop down into a fight from 15k to pick and climb.
I didn't ignore them, I just couldn't find them. Then if I did find them and try to up there I was vulched. So I would up at the next field only to arrive AFTER they had captured the base and moved on to the next undefended field because they would very raely defend the field, after all the "win" is the capture right?. Where in all of that was there a "fight"?
At least now you have more time to find the NOEs and more time to get there to defend. The game is about fighting, not grabbing base though that does seem to be a lot of peoples end game. Why is it there end game? My guess is it too much trouble for them to get good enough at anything by them selves to have fun at the "other things" that are available to play in this game.
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I didn't ignore them, I just couldn't find them. Then if I did find them and try to up there I was vulched. So I would up at the next field only to arrive AFTER they had captured the base and moved on to the next undefended field because they would very raely defend the field, after all the "win" is the capture right?. Where in all of that was there a "fight"?
At least now you have more time to find the NOEs and more time to get there to defend. The game is about fighting, not grabbing base though that does seem to be a lot of peoples end game. Why is it there end game? My guess is it too much trouble for them to get good enough at anything by them selves to have fun at the "other things" that are available to play in this game.
I NEVER had a hard time detecting NOEs.
They were the flashing bases with no dar bar usually. :rolleyes:
Usually when I upped to defend them, I would find that there was a group of like minded guys who would help at almost every one.
It was a blast. Win or lose.
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Got any pointers?
:lol, you answer to everything is the P-38.
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wasn't it not too terribly long ago that people were complaining that the bases were too easy to take?
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This example (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,255725.0.html) would be a good place to start.
ack-ack
:rofl :rofl That was fun.
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wasn't it not too terribly long ago that people were complaining that the bases were too easy to take?
Try to keep up please.
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Quote from: Crash Orange on Today at 07:53:31 AM
Way to miss the point sailing twenty feet over your head.
He never said he wanted "the game" to be easier for HIM. Everybody else plays by the same rules. Everybody would be equally affected. And he's not talking about the flight model, or making his bullets act like heat-seaking howitzer rounds, or any other aspect of the game related to the simulation of air combat.
I think all fans would agree that baseball would not be a better game if the outfield fence was 800 feet from home plate. Football would not be a better game if it took 30 yards to get a first down rather than ten. Basketball wouldn't be a better game if the rim was 30 feet off the ground (though some might consider 12 feet an improvement...) Complaining about the rules if any of those changes was instituted wouldn't be about "dumbing down" the game or making it easier for any particular player.
The point is that in any game there is a proper balance between offense and defense that leads to the best gameplay. The OP was saying that balance is out of whack in AH, it has only been made worse by recent changes, and a lot of players are unhappy and may leave as a result - not because it's "too hard" for him to get kills or compete with other players but because gameplay is suffering due to the inability for anyone to achieve any strategic results.
Whether you agree or disagree, deliberately misunderstanding the OP's argument and arguing like a 2-year-old in response isn't helpful.
+1
Couldn't agree more.
Bases are too difficult to take in a global strategic sense. Yeah, it can be done, but it requires too many people and too much time to be worth a damn on a map sized for 2000 players.
Bases used to be very easy to capture but what many of you here fail to understand is how that promoted a goal oriented game. Players could actually make an impact in the war with just a couple friends. Heck me and bipolar used to try and sneak bases just the two of us from time to time and it was a blast. Sometimes a few of us muppets would NOE raid a base deep into enemy territory and then defend the hell out of it and call it an "Alamo Mission". That part of the game is dead.
Another failure of this game is to tie in the size of the map to the difficulty of capturing a base. How many large maps have been won since the newest town updates? You get one week to win a war(before the cap update anyway)...I highly doubt a large map has been won, in fact I doubt a large map hasn't even been close to being won.
Not a very organized post, but just a few random thoughts regarding how the new towns have negatively effected the game.
+1 to what Crashorange and what Grizz said
To all those saying base taking is irrelevent, shouldnt you be in the DA?
Dont care what peeps say I am a happy toolshedding. basetaking. mission runner because that IS what the main arena is about getting into a damn good scrap whilst doing it is a bonus.
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I've been playing this game for about a year now and it has become a big part of my daily routine. For me, and as evidenced by the declining numbers may other players found the changes made to the game strategy brought out by the update in the town graphics and subsequent degree of difficulty in taking a base, I found the game to be frustrating instead of fun.
Robert
Oh,yes you are right and not the only one frustrated with the town size and graphics.There's nothing left to promote fights as team unless you want your personal glory posted on AH front page; with HQ and ather strats just useles spots on the map, caps, eny ,unbalanced gameplay,bases uncapturable,40% of both teams bases neded to rest a map +...this huge maps with 200 bases and 100 players; i don't see a logic reason anymore to fight as a team for taking a base, it's imposible to win a map and you don't fight against other team but against HTC's game set up.
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Try to keep up please.
well, it's hard.......those wanting to complain, change their stance and stories quicker than a politician. :bolt:
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well, it's hard.......those wanting to complain, change their stance and stories quicker than a politician. :bolt:
Not really, why would someone who likes to win the war ever complain about bases being too easy to capture? If anyone ever complained about that it was the furballing crowd, which supports the fact that bases are very tough to capture now and wars are impossible to win. With all due respect, what the heck are you smoking?
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I can see several sides of this coin. I don't agree with the means in which the OP posted his criticism, because it came out very much a whine. I was tempted to post, "Do you want to WHINE the map, or WIN the map."
However, looking through the tears, I THINK I understand the point.
I agree with others that the game is about COMBAT, but I also agree that the point of combat is to accomplish/achieve some goal. I think of it like football. You make plays to push the ball down field. Yes, each individual has a role to play to defeat his specific target, but the point of the entire team is to push the ball downfield. Would football be as interesting if at the end of every play, the ball was placed back on the 50-yard line? The point of football is to drive downfield and put the ball in the endzone. Bashing the others players is the means by which that goal is achieved and makes the game exciting.
I don't see the new towns as being all that much more radical toward game play than before. I like the way they look and I like to be able to GV in them better than before. They are more difficult to kill and much hard to know when they are down. I am not sure how I feel about that - to be honest. But I do like the towns.
Were I to suggest anything that might help, would be put each team in a corner with much more 'neutral' space / bases/ territory in between. Let the teams come out fighting and swinging at each other to capture / occupy territory. when the two or three sides meet in the middle, there will be one heck of a fight. I don't know how this could be done or have any idea how to implement something like this, but it is a thought.
I am not sure I can describe what I am thinking... not so much as a base capture, but simply the ability to occupy and control sections of territory. As an over simplified illustration, think of watching History Channel, when the WWII diagrams come on and they show the colored maps showing how German or allied forces push into the opposing territory and the color shifts to 'show the lines'. Again, I don't have any idea how to implement or 'play' this idea. But it is something different that (if figured out) may improve both the FIGHTS and the REASON FOR THE FIGHTS. It would cool to think about 'supply' lines and how they might affect the ability to defend that base or territory.As an example, if supply lines are over extended, maybe the 'top' of the line planes and equipment are not available.
(I know, the idea is fully thought out, but I still think it is something to ponder.) :headscratch:
:aok
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Not really, why would someone who likes to win the war ever complain about bases being too easy to capture? If anyone ever complained about that it was the furballing crowd, which supports the fact that bases are very tough to capture now and wars are impossible to win. With all due respect, what the heck are you smoking?
Nothing......but extremely tired.
i said that, because first you see someone complain bases are too easy. they change, then there's complaints that they're too hard. they complain about radar, so the level is lowered..then there's complaints that it's too low.
it seems to me that htc really can't win. no matter what they do, there are people going to complain. it's like people are looking for something to complain about.
then of course there are those that complain with titles such as this threads title.......not very constructive, nor is it very likely to lend much credence to the complaint, if for no other reason than how it is presented.
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I just finished reading through the entire thread and have several observations.
1) A good percentage of the players come in here to relax and get away from real life. This is their "Fun Time". If the game isn't fun, they will find something else to do with their time and leave the game. This hurts the game and gameplay.
2) Those of you who see a "whine" in every dissatisfied comment are missing the point. This is one of the reasons the BBS is here: to register how PAYING CUSTOMERS feel about gameplay.
3) I agree 100% with DMGOD and Grizz. QBert isn't the only player to feel this way, and there are a lot of really good players who have left the game for the very reasons QBert expressed. He has an extremely valid point, and HTC should pay just as much attention to QBert as they do to "why we want a B-29".
4) Nobody ever said you had to agree with QBert, you may find gameplay perfect and exactly to your liking and skills. Calling people names or belittling them because you may be in the majority only makes you look Pusillanimous and Petty.
:old:
Qbert is a good friend and valuable component to this game. It will be be a very sad day when everyone who plays is like Ack Ack.
TeeArr
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Nothing......but extremely tired.
i said that, because first you see someone complain bases are too easy. they change, then there's complaints that they're too hard. they complain about radar, so the level is lowered..then there's complaints that it's too low.
it seems to me that htc really can't win. no matter what they do, there are people going to complain. it's like people are looking for something to complain about.
then of course there are those that complain with titles such as this threads title.......not very constructive, nor is it very likely to lend much credence to the complaint, if for no other reason than how it is presented.
Really an incredibly moot point caps.
HTC wins by creating the best online environment they can for the most players possible and driving subscriptions upward. That's how they win, it has nothing to do with littered complaints scattered around the bulletin board.
What you fail to realize is how a happy win the war crowd makes a happy game. If they are happy and personally engaged in what they are doing it promotes a goal oriented game. Granted the worst case scenario of this was the 'whack a mole' situation that occured at times where you ended up playing cat and mouse with them around the map with no actual combat taking place. This was lame, granted. But overall, if they are happy the game feels more like a war is going on. This is great for the game and for new players. Furballers will always have furballs and vets will always have other vets to fight. If the MA fights suck, go the freakin da, find a nice side base, grab some friends, and have a grand old time. HTC needs this game to be more goal oriented if they want to ever make more money.
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"(You come in and start playing a 1PM only to have the game change a 3PM just as you were about to get a base you had been working on for the last 2 hours, only to be told sorry gents we got to switch to the night arena you'll have to finish tomorrow, and don't forget to be there at 4am or the base you had sweatted your butt off to get will be back up.)
come to mid or early war we don't have that problem.
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on top of that, when the arena comes back up, the base will be as you left it....if it was fully down, then it still will be.
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LOUD NOISES!!!!!
<S> Melvin
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LOUD NOISES!!!!!
<S> Melvin
HUH? I CAN'T HEAR YA!!!!!!!!
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+1
Couldn't agree more.
Bases are too difficult to take in a global strategic sense. Yeah, it can be done, but it requires too many people and too much time to be worth a damn on a map sized for 2000 players.
Bases used to be very easy to capture but what many of you here fail to understand is how that promoted a goal oriented game. Players could actually make an impact in the war with just a couple friends. Heck me and bipolar used to try and sneak bases just the two of us from time to time and it was a blast. Sometimes a few of us muppets would NOE raid a base deep into enemy territory and then defend the hell out of it and call it an "Alamo Mission". That part of the game is dead.
Another failure of this game is to tie in the size of the map to the difficulty of capturing a base. How many large maps have been won since the newest town updates? You get one week to win a war(before the cap update anyway)...I highly doubt a large map has been won, in fact I doubt a large map hasn't even been close to being won.
Not a very organized post, but just a few random thoughts regarding how the new towns have negatively effected the game.
+2
Boh Grizz and Cap are exactly correct.
Wab
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Really an incredibly moot point caps.
HTC wins by creating the best online environment they can for the most players possible and driving subscriptions upward. That's how they win, it has nothing to do with littered complaints scattered around the bulletin board.
What you fail to realize is how a happy win the war crowd makes a happy game. If they are happy and personally engaged in what they are doing it promotes a goal oriented game. Granted the worst case scenario of this was the 'whack a mole' situation that occured at times where you ended up playing cat and mouse with them around the map with no actual combat taking place. This was lame, granted. But overall, if they are happy the game feels more like a war is going on. This is great for the game and for new players. Furballers will always have furballs and vets will always have other vets to fight. If the MA fights suck, go the freakin da, find a nice side base, grab some friends, and have a grand old time. HTC needs this game to be more goal oriented if they want to ever make more money.
+3 (e.g. WWI as an example of failing to do that.)
You're on a roll Grizz. :aok
Wab
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+2
Boh Grizz and Cap are exactly correct.
Wab
hey hey HEY!!
thems fightin words!!!!
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Qbert is a very good friend. I feel differently about the arena cap change, but have to agree that base take is off balance. I have posted on other occasions about the frustration of the current base capture system. I have received responses, that let me know that it IS intentional that the work of an organized group intent on a capture should be halted by a single hit to a single troop.
For those expecting Qbert to need his flame pants and finding your own rump a little seared, maybe you read too much into his reasoning for posting. Our CO (Zensen, Duxford Wing RAF) had the right idea to encourage Qbert to post here. This is what good friends do (* what squads are meant to be like).
To hear Qbert say, "Not fun anymore" echoes a failure somewhat on my part. He has been one of the most fun folks to fly with! Make no mistake, there is no inability on his part to perform any of what AH2 offers. In fact, it totally took us by surprise, Dux to be ranked in the top 5 squads when it came to base captures in Late War October stats. We don't run missions, or concentrate on anything other than trying to support each other where we can. How the heck we got such a high ranking in this category, might be more of an indicator of fewer successful captures globally. This I would like to see the numbers on.
Qbert, I do think that the NEW "save" function of the rotation scheme is BETTER. Now, that we know what times we will be reset (crosses fingers) we basically, have a countdown ticker like half time of the Super Bowl. :cheers: Changes in the towns, ports and vehicle bases are graphically pleasing and interesting to explore, but down right evil :mad: to try and spot any objects needed to be destroyed. My conclusion again, to increase the POSITIVE gaming experience, HTC should do something DIFFERENT with the base capture.
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How the heck we got such a high ranking in this category, might be more of an indicator of fewer successful captures globally. This I would like to see the numbers on.
As you wish.
The rate of base captures has been halved. Before the redo of towns and vehicle bases, we had a steady ratio of about 25 played manhours for every credited capture (I checked several tours over the past 2.5 years). After tour 126, this had increased to 50+ manhours. (53 in tour 129)
(based on all "active" players during a tour, active meaning the player had at least one kill or one death)
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As you wish.
The rate of base captures has been halved. Before the redo of towns and vehicle bases, we had a steady ratio of about 25 played manhours for every credited capture (I checked several tours over the past 2.5 years). After tour 126, this had increased to 50+ manhours. (53 in tour 129)
(based on all "active" players during a tour, active meaning the player had at least one kill or one death)
LoL. I think they ought to put you into mass-production Lusche.
Someone once told me "You can not control what you do not measure."
:salute,
Wab
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As you wish.
The rate of base captures has been halved. Before the redo of towns and vehicle bases, we had a steady ratio of about 25 played manhours for every credited capture (I checked several tours over the past 2.5 years). After tour 126, this had increased to 50+ manhours. (53 in tour 129)
(based on all "active" players during a tour, active meaning the player had at least one kill or one death)
Not that this can be checked, but it would be my hunch that the ratio of base captures to vehicle base captures has gone down also, meaning that a higher number of these captures now are vehicle bases.
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LoL. I think they ought to put you into mass-production Lusche.
Someone once told me "You can not control what you do not measure."
:salute,
Wab
LOL
I just think it's pure nerddom on my side.
And of course these are just numbers. Requested information. How someone is rating this numbers, interpreting the information is a different thing. And after all, you can hardly measure fun & satisfaction (ok.. maybe in # of subscriptions... but that's still not that easy).
Just because the number of base captures has been significantly reduced, it doesn't have to mean overall fun for the majority of players (even "war" players) has been reduced too.
And by the way... I predict with the new arena setup the numbe rof captures will further go down - simply because there is no easily milkable 2-10 players LW arena at off peak hours anymore. (Some squads really relied on this to get their rankings up).
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Not that this can be checked, but it would be my hunch that the ratio of base captures to vehicle base captures has gone down also, meaning that a higher number of these captures now are vehicle bases.
No that can't be checked. And just going by feel, I'm not sure if that's really the case. Since the redesign of the VBases, I saw less attacks on them too. More guns (particularly those &&/%&/ free 17lbs AT guns) and the different layout did make a quick capture for 1-2 guys more difficult too.
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So you're back Snailman?
Excellent. :aok
Qbert... when I start getting frustrated with the game I do something radically insane so long as I'm not screwing up other people actually trying.
Jeep raids, running a pt boat at a battle group, NOE a goon through an unoccupied base, anything silly I can think of to get a chuckle. Don't know if it will work for you but it does for me. Wait, I have an idea. If you hit yourself repeatedly in the head with a brick or bash it on a counter long enough to give you lasting brain damage it WILL work for you :D
My best to ya regardless :D
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I just re thought my suggestion about changing base capture system. The way the staff seems to work and others are correct in pointing out, this is their bread and butter and they have been pretty good at it for some time. I am just hopeful, that something is in the works (most likely something that they have researched and most of us have never thought of before) that will once again have us singing praises for the best damn :airplane: :joystick: :cheers: out there.
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So you're back Snailman?
Excellent. :aok
Qbert... when I start getting frustrated with the game I do something radically insane so long as I'm not screwing up other people actually trying.
Jeep raids, running a pt boat at a battle group, NOE a goon through an unoccupied base, anything silly I can think of to get a chuckle. Don't know if it will work for you but it does for me. Wait, I have an idea. If you hit yourself repeatedly in the head with a brick or bash it on a counter long enough to give you lasting brain damage it WILL work for you :D
My best to ya regardless :D
last night, i de-acked a small base, landed, taxied into the hangar just off the runway, and was gonna sit and ambush the first plane to pass me on the runway.
unfortunately, it was imadot, and i couldn't bring myself to do that to him...so i taxied out beside him, we took a couple pics, then did a formation takeoff.......then i augered, quite ba accident/ :rofl :rofl
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muahahahahahaaa...
I've seriously considered covertly taking a Wirble out during my bait runs and sitting at the end of a runway for just one shot... And, yes, I'd cap dot because he has a sense of humor too :devil
Couple of weeks ago I was deacking and didn't see Jherne get on, take a gv, next thing you know St Pete was saying 'weren't you just here?'
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cool thing is, it's kinda easy to do without that big red neon "LOOK AT ME" sign there. :devil
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i agree in some parts of your thread. I do remeber that in LW arenas their would always be people trying to take a base and win the war and it happened often where 1 side was on a roll with taking bases and usually in a few hours if they had the numbers they could win the war. When we got the new upgrade on the feilds and towns and radar, i am yet to see the war won by any side, and 1 side on a roll with taking bases. I do agree somethings need changeing, but the game is still fun
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+1 to what Crashorange and what Grizz said
To all those saying base taking is irrelevent, shouldnt you be in the DA?
Dont care what peeps say I am a happy toolshedding. basetaking. mission runner because that IS what the main arena is about getting into a damn good scrap whilst doing it is a bonus.
I'm glad your a "happy toolshedding. basetaking. mission runner", and all of that is still available to you. For years now us "fighter types" have had a hard time finding a fight, and No trying to stop GHI and and all of his NOE hordlings is not a fight. Sure you can get kills in that environment, but it's not a fight. The changes made create more opportunities for fights to break out without taking away the "win the war" aspect of the game.
Can you NOE a base and take it under 3 minutes, probably not, but you still can do it. The guys complaining are those stuck in their old habits. The old plans don't work so well, make new ones. Coming in in a horde makes it obvious which base your trying for, maybe upping from 3 or 4 bases at different times will fool the map watchers until the attack is already on.
I don't stop flying fighters because it's too hard, I just try harder. Like in golf I get that one great fight a night that bring me back the next time to try and get it again. The base take challenge use to be to get 20+ of your closest friends to work together long enough to grab a base. Now all they did was to add a bit more of a challenge by giving more people the chance to defend.
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I'm glad your a "happy toolshedding. basetaking. mission runner", and all of that is still available to you. For years now us "fighter types" have had a hard time finding a fight, and No trying to stop GHI and and all of his NOE hordlings is not a fight. Sure you can get kills in that environment, but it's not a fight. The changes made create more opportunities for fights to break out without taking away the "win the war" aspect of the game.
Can you NOE a base and take it under 3 minutes, probably not, but you still can do it. The guys complaining are those stuck in their old habits. The old plans don't work so well, make new ones. Coming in in a horde makes it obvious which base your trying for, maybe upping from 3 or 4 bases at different times will fool the map watchers until the attack is already on.
I don't stop flying fighters because it's too hard, I just try harder. Like in golf I get that one great fight a night that bring me back the next time to try and get it again. The base take challenge use to be to get 20+ of your closest friends to work together long enough to grab a base. Now all they did was to add a bit more of a challenge by giving more people the chance to defend.
+1 Finding that one quality 1V1 fight per night is worth all the other, and defending now is alot more fun than it used to be
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I dunno, base-taking provides a medium in which furballs CAN take place, but I'd like to see a method which discourages/prevents half a frikkin COUNTRY from moving base to base like an amoeba. Most any night, log in and see a map with 200 bases, 90% of the player base is involved in any of 3 rolling whords....one country per base. Not sure how programming can overcome human nature
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I dunno, base-taking provides a medium in which furballs CAN take place, but I'd like to see a method which discourages/prevents half a frikkin COUNTRY from moving base to base like an amoeba. Most any night, log in and see a map with 200 bases, 90% of the player base is involved in any of 3 rolling whords....one country per base. Not sure how programming can overcome human nature
It seems to me you are describing the exact result of making bases "harder" to capture.
First, it doesn't seem to me the skill-level needed to take a base has increased. Just the amount of firepower needed.
So the solution is… you just bring a bigger horde.
The "harder" you make it to capture a base, the less motivated smaller groups are to spread out and try and take a base themselves.
If you make it unlikely to be able to use stealth to get reasonably close before detection, and make it unlikely you will have enough firepower to get the job done, then the logical choice is to form a 30 plane armada and simply blot out the sky with planes.
Clearly there is some kind of Trade-Off curve at work here. Imagine a graph with "Fun" on the Y-Axis and "Capture Difficulty" on the X-Axis. At the lower bounds of X you have “One guy can capture a base with no problem” and the Fun(x) is low. At the upper bounds of X you have “Nothing short of a 30 plane armada will take a base” and Fun(x) is also low. Somewhere in the middle there is a maxima. Somewhere there is a knee to that curve right around (IMHO) “5 guys using stealth and a little luck have a 50% chance of sneaking a base alone”.
Regards,
Wab
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When we got the new upgrade on the feilds and towns and radar, i am yet to see the war won by any side, and 1 side on a roll with taking bases.
you aint paying attention then.. many many "wars won" since the new layouts.
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muahahahahahaaa...
I've seriously considered covertly taking a Wirble out during my bait runs and sitting at the end of a runway for just one shot... And, yes, I'd cap dot because he has a sense of humor too :devil
Couple of weeks ago I was deacking and didn't see Jherne get on, take a gv, next thing you know St Pete was saying 'weren't you just here?'
I'd like to see what one of those old AW base limits would do--only 10 or so people could be aloft from any one base at a time. Make an interesting experiment
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Nice to see that not much has changed with the community. I haven't played for 6 months or so but all i have to do
is check the BBs on occasion to see that you can change the game till the cows come home and it will never
be enough to change how folks play the game or for that matter, how they treat other people.
Think I'll stay on AH vacation.
that is all
froger
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Does it matter if it's a first post or a last post, no the topic is straight forward and valid. It's not about making the game easier like some of you think and it's not about whining as some other of you think. It's a straight forward expression to the developers of AH changing the game to a point that I no longer get any pleasure in playing it. Some will see it my way and agree, others will not and want to ridicule me for my view. In actual fact, I don't care what any of you think, I was asked to post my thought by my CO and I did so.
Again, AH I'm pissedthat you have changed this gamed to the point where it is no longer any fun to play.
Robert
dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!!!! this isn't xbox or playstation son! if the game is boring for you then find something else!!!
that is all....
you are now dismissed!
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I'm glad your a "happy toolshedding. basetaking. mission runner", and all of that is still available to you. For years now us "fighter types" have had a hard time finding a fight, and No trying to stop GHI and and all of his NOE hordlings is not a fight. Sure you can get kills in that environment, but it's not a fight. The changes made create more opportunities for fights to break out without taking away the "win the war" aspect of the game.
Can you NOE a base and take it under 3 minutes, probably not, but you still can do it. The guys complaining are those stuck in their old habits. The old plans don't work so well, make new ones. Coming in in a horde makes it obvious which base your trying for, maybe upping from 3 or 4 bases at different times will fool the map watchers until the attack is already on.
I don't stop flying fighters because it's too hard, I just try harder. Like in golf I get that one great fight a night that bring me back the next time to try and get it again. The base take challenge use to be to get 20+ of your closest friends to work together long enough to grab a base. Now all they did was to add a bit more of a challenge by giving more people the chance to defend.
i like to hunt down big juicy peeturdy8's and keel them! muahahahahaaaaaaaaaa ;)
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I like the new towns........ infact they seem to be villages. They have proper streets and when your in one it could indeed be a village in Northern France or on the Russian steppe.
What is wierd is this concept of having to level a village before it can be captured. This is a totally abstract role play/game play mechanism. The idea that infantry and attack ran around trying to find the building they had missed prior to capture (regardlessof the odds) is very wierd IMO.
What can be implemented almost immediately IMO is a mechanism that requires only a % to be destroyed prior to capture making it a bit easier and a little less "abstract". Then we get to keep these cute little villages where we can have some fun close quarter GV fights.
Next we could hope to challenge HT to look at the capture model conditions vis whether killing "town objects" is really the best qualifying criteria and what role capturing a town actually accomplishes.
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I like the new towns........ infact they seem to be villages. They have proper streets and when your in one it could indeed be a village in Northern France or on the Russian steppe.
What is wierd is this concept of having to level a village before it can be captured. This is a totally abstract role play/game play mechanism. The idea that infantry and attack ran around trying to find the building they had missed prior to capture (regardlessof the odds) is very wierd IMO.
What can be implemented almost immediately IMO is a mechanism that requires only a % to be destroyed prior to capture making it a bit easier and a little less "abstract". Then we get to keep these cute little villages where we can have some fun close quarter GV fights.
Next we could hope to challenge HT to look at the capture model conditions vis whether killing "town objects" is really the best qualifying criteria and what role capturing a town actually accomplishes.
I think you can use the "destroy all buildings" as the same as a house to house search to make sure the town is clear and yours. Seeing as we have no snipers and insurgents hiding in buildings ....yet, destroying all the building covers the same purpose.
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dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!!!! this isn't xbox or playstation son! if the game is boring for you then find something else!!!
that is all....
you are now dismissed!
Game, set, match!
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I've been playing this game for about a year now and ...
AH, I'm pissed and I hate to say this but unless the games changes make the game fun to play then there is no point in playing the game.
Robert
Relax. It happens to everyone. It won't be the only time you'll think about quitting or taking a break.
Next time, you'll know better than to post it on the BBS.
HONK!
Gooss
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I like the new towns........ infact they seem to be villages. They have proper streets and when your in one it could indeed be a village in Northern France or on the Russian steppe.
What is wierd is this concept of having to level a village before it can be captured. This is a totally abstract role play/game play mechanism. The idea that infantry and attack ran around trying to find the building they had missed prior to capture (regardlessof the odds) is very wierd IMO.
What can be implemented almost immediately IMO is a mechanism that requires only a % to be destroyed prior to capture making it a bit easier and a little less "abstract". Then we get to keep these cute little villages where we can have some fun close quarter GV fights.
Next we could hope to challenge HT to look at the capture model conditions vis whether killing "town objects" is really the best qualifying criteria and what role capturing a town actually accomplishes.
you don't have to run around looking for the missed building.
print out a map of the town. make sure everyone in your attack group has one and coordinate your attack.
maps are your friends, mkay?
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I'm glad your a "happy toolshedding. basetaking. mission runner", and all of that is still available to you. For years now us "fighter types" have had a hard time finding a fight, and No trying to stop GHI and and all of his NOE hordlings is not a fight. Sure you can get kills in that environment, but it's not a fight. The changes made create more opportunities for fights to break out without taking away the "win the war" aspect of the game.
Can you NOE a base and take it under 3 minutes, probably not, but you still can do it. The guys complaining are those stuck in their old habits. The old plans don't work so well, make new ones. Coming in in a horde makes it obvious which base your trying for, maybe upping from 3 or 4 bases at different times will fool the map watchers until the attack is already on.
I don't stop flying fighters because it's too hard, I just try harder. Like in golf I get that one great fight a night that bring me back the next time to try and get it again. The base take challenge use to be to get 20+ of your closest friends to work together long enough to grab a base. Now all they did was to add a bit more of a challenge by giving more people the chance to defend.
I think in general we are actually on the same page, I like the new towns, I wouldnt want every base take to be a three minute walk in the park with a handfull off people and without "fighter types" to oppose us toolshedding basetakers it would be pretty boring.
Although the caps of the subject line and the tone of the OP may come across as abit whiny the big shift in baseshifting numbers (see Lusches post)do show the op may have a point and still maintain that "some" fighter types saying basetaking in the main arena is irrelevent should be in the DA and not trolling this thread.
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I think in general we are actually on the same page, I like the new towns, I wouldnt want every base take to be a three minute walk in the park with a handfull off people and without "fighter types" to oppose us toolshedding basetakers it would be pretty boring.
Although the caps of the subject line and the tone of the OP may come across as abit whiny the big shift in baseshifting numbers (see Lusches post)do show the op may have a point and still maintain that "some" fighter types saying basetaking in the main arena is irrelevent should be in the DA and not trolling this thread.
To a fighter guy base taking IS irrelevant, the attempt is not because it generates fights.
Much like FIGHTING is irrelevant to base takers, vulching them makes it easier and quicker to get the base.
The problem with the base takers is they continue to try and take bases the way they have for the past year. Soon it may come to them to change their tactics and the "fun" will be back. You know if I always took of from A23 and left the plane on auto climb for 5 minutes to get to cruising alt and they changed the map and moved a mountain in the way and I can't climb over it on auto, how many times will I run into the mountain before I learn to turn. Complaining on the boards won't get the mountain moved, just a small change in my approach gets me back to my cruising altitude.
I think once people give up on the old way of doing things (like so many people love to tell me to do :P ) they will learn a new way and their fun will be back. Of course, giving up and walking away may not be the best way to get the fun back.
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To a fighter guy base taking IS irrelevant, the attempt is not because it generates fights.
Much like FIGHTING is irrelevant to base takers, vulching them makes it easier and quicker to get the base.
The problem with the base takers is they continue to try and take bases the way they have for the past year. Soon it may come to them to change their tactics and the "fun" will be back. You know if I always took of from A23 and left the plane on auto climb for 5 minutes to get to cruising alt and they changed the map and moved a mountain in the way and I can't climb over it on auto, how many times will I run into the mountain before I learn to turn. Complaining on the boards won't get the mountain moved, just a small change in my approach gets me back to my cruising altitude.
I think once people give up on the old way of doing things (like so many people love to tell me to do :P ) they will learn a new way and their fun will be back. Of course, giving up and walking away may not be the best way to get the fun back.
your right fugitive, and i think that everyone starts out as a "base taker" when your new. eventually you get tired of the same old thing and you discover how much fun furballing is. im a fighter dweeb, i rather be mixin it up with a few good sticks and have them white knuckle fights. you know, the ones that your heart is racing a million MPH. the one thing that i can't stand are the "base takers" that try to force the furballers to play the way they WANT us to play. like taking tank town bases...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr i hate that!
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your right fugitive, and i think that everyone starts out as a "base taker" when your new. eventually you get tired of the same old thing and you discover how much fun furballing is.
Many players did also evolve the other way around. From pure "fighter" type or furballer, to allround player or even *gasp* basetaker (strategic player).
The more limited the playing style (no matter which one), the more easy it is to burn out.
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Many players did also evolve the other way around. From pure "fighter" type or furballer, to allround player or even *gasp* basetaker (strategic player).
The more limited the playing style (no matter which one), the more easy it is to burn out.
and many players will switch around doing different things within the game. :aok
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I'd like to see what one of those old AW base limits would do--only 10 or so people could be aloft from any one base at a time. Make an interesting experiment
Sector zone limits were 20 per side, per sector and as soon as someone was shot down a spot opened up.
ack-ack
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I have to say that, after reading many of the posts on here, I am ashamed at what some of you have written. What happened to "If you don't have something nice to say, say nothing at all"? There are a lot of vitriolic statements that do nothing to add to the conversation, but seem to satisfy some Bozo's itch to run others down. What's the matter with you people...Mom didn't give you enough hugs when you were little? Need more Prozac? It's the same disregard for others that has infected gameplay and yes, it does take the fun out of the game.
Betty's patronizing comments were way out of line, especially considering Qbert is some 30 years her senior, and has been through more crap than Betty will ever face.... Am I being too harsh or "Out of Line"? I hope so. Some of you need to get over your testosterone rush and take a good long look at yourselves.
This thread should have been closed long ago.
TeeArr
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I started out tour 52, so ive been around a bit, my first sortie I attacked like 10 nme cons, died real fast lol, Been fighting the hourd ever since, with all the changes making bigger hourds, well thats just more targets for me :-).....this game is what you make it, plain and simple, if your not happy then dont be here, find what makes you happy, personaly I cant fly right now, and threads that complain about the greatest combat sim there is, just irk me to no end......stop complaining find what makes you happy or go away. easy-peasy lemon-squeezy
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Many players did also evolve the other way around. From pure "fighter" type or furballer, to allround player or even *gasp* basetaker (strategic player).
The more limited the playing style (no matter which one), the more easy it is to burn out.
I agree Lusche, neither style of play should be ignored or condemned. As a "fighter" guy I've had to adjust my play to take into account of game changes for years. Instead of giving up, I adapted. There are still many things that truly annoy the heck out of me in this game... the pair of high pones that are afraid to engage my zero, the one move wonders that do nothing but HO, the gang tards that see someone fighting 2 or 3 guys and decide its a good idea to make it even more lop-sided. Each and everytime I run into this stuff.....and it is VERY often... it pisses me off and is certainly NOT fun.
On the other hand I've been in this game almost 10 years and AW for a number of years before that. I know that that one good fight is just a few launches down the road. Some times you have to think outside the box to get it. Last night after a number of frustrating runs Karnak said he'd meet me for some fights. We moved off to a quite section of the map and had a number of fun fights as well as 4Fox and flash2 getting in on the action.
The fun is still there, you may just have to broaden your horizons a bit to find it.
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I find this thread funny and most responses have such a spin on them they make my head hurt.
These changes that are currently in effect have not eliminated NOE missions, it just made them harder to conduct.
Remember when:
Rolling base after undefended base was getting old for those of you on the receiving end, resetting a couple of maps in a day was not unheard of, some of you tend to forget just what you complained about when this was going on.
I know, I participated in them and ran them myself for a time, and know exactly how easy it was to gather anyone and everyone to horde a base for a capture, ended up being more creative about them just to keep them interesting but even then they were still easy, too easy to take a base.
NOE was never the problem per say, it was running them at nauzium that is. When that is all that a side would do it affects everyone else as well. Make it a little harder was just fair for everyone, I think it met its goal.
If you must find a reason to play the game like a "goal" or "winning" something for example, you can find that like everyone else does in the way you fight another plane or a tank as much as you could find it in taking a base. Think about it.
As for people leaving the game:
People are not leaving the game for the way it is now, they were leaving well before these changes took effect.
If you ask me, I would dare to say I am seeing more of them coming back because its getting a little better than it was before.
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The fun is still there, you may just have to broaden your horizons a bit to find it
Actually, quite a LOT. What can be done to convince people to log on, and immediately NOT fly to the biggest GREEN darbar? Hard to attack the borg cube. They may all suck individually, but Quantity has a Quality in and of itself
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If you guys wanna take some shots at someone, log out of here and go log in the game. :salute
I do reserve my right to whine, complain, or pitch a boogiee and would do so with kerosene underwear on. When some of you pull your heads back out and hear that pop sound, it may clear your hearing (in this case, your ability to read before launching a pointless comment).
Constructive arguments about personal preferences can be valuable to the developers. Personal attacks on anyone for expressing an opinion, is just taking up server space.
Analogy: I had four young kids, and Christmas would break the bank for about 3 months every year. A good deal of that money was spent in one particular store (TRU). This was not including the 7 birthdays of closely related kids that were within 30 days of Christmas, so we would say near a couple of thousand yearly take from us for that one franchise. One year, everyone got the coolest bikes we could find there. Sadly, on Christmas day a flaw in a crucial part of my youngest's bike disabled it within minutes of his first ride. As soon as I could, I took the bike back to repair or replace the prized possession. I was unprepared for the accusations about my character and total unwillingness of the management to remedy the obvious flaw. I told the manager that I would never shop at the franchise again, then left to upgrade the part from a professional bike shop (spending a good chunk of change).
That was 20 years ago, you can do the math. My kids were annoyed that even if they were the only place in town with the goods, I kept my word and never made another purchase there.
Bottom line: Try to convince Q and others like him / us, that the game is not broken or at least listen to his complaint. Q .... dude, you are still the man in the A20, take a short break if you feel the need, but your post has brought out many opinions about game development direction, and your point about fun in a game has to be taken seriously.
:salute
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@ chilli.......
Agreed that people have a right to choose where they spend their money and time. I agree that Qbert has every right to, and should, express his opinion toward a product for which he has purchased (in this case the time on AH).
However, I see two problems in this instance. First the manner in which he complained was like a 12-year old on a temper tantrum. It is very easy to lose a valuable message in the tone (method) of its delivery. It is hard to correct a problem if the person complaining does not clearly state what the problem is. Using a twist on your bike example, if you went back to the store stomping your feet because a purchase you made doesn't work, how are they to know that you need a replacement bike part?
Second, what Qbert is complaining about is NOT that AcesHigh is broken. He downloaded the game, he logs on, the game runs smoothly, he didn't get discoed, all the controls work. Everything about the game functions exactly as it is supposed to. What he is complaining about is HOW OTHERS ARE USING THE GAME. How can HTC control how people play the game? Going back to the bike example twist, if you bought a bike and it worked perfectly. You want to ride your bike to the park, but everyone else wants to ride to the lake, is that defect with the bike?
Qbert has a valid point that he may not be enjoying the game as much as he used to. He could very easily have come in and said, "I have noticed some methods of play that are not as fun for me. I suggest that we, as a community, might try to doing this.... or that... " He could very easily have asked HTC to consider altering the maps to ensure better fights or other methods of base takes. But, what he did was come in stomping his feet acting like a spoiled 12 year old.
Like I said, the message may be valid, but it was very hard to understand because of the delivery. And, THAT, is why some have chosen to flame him. They saw the pitch, but it was down in the dirt so they didn't swing - Now they are heckling the pitcher.
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Sector zone limits were 20 per side, per sector and as soon as someone was shot down a spot opened up.
ack-ack
20 per base whilst it was called zone limit it was allocated to bases. Indeed it could be varied from base to base by use of the "texts". One aspect of the AW system I would not wish for is that (as Mage initially implemented it) the zone limit was subject to attrition (lowered to about 14 IIRC) as some of the field assets were destroyed.
The idea that we can "pork" a zone limit would not work here.
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I have to say that, after reading many of the posts on here, I am ashamed at what some of you have written. What happened to "If you don't have something nice to say, say nothing at all"? There are a lot of vitriolic statements that do nothing to add to the conversation, but seem to satisfy some Bozo's itch to run others down. What's the matter with you people...Mom didn't give you enough hugs when you were little? Need more Prozac? It's the same disregard for others that has infected gameplay and yes, it does take the fun out of the game.
Betty's patronizing comments were way out of line, especially considering Qbert is some 30 years her senior, and has been through more crap than Betty will ever face.... Am I being too harsh or "Out of Line"? I hope so. Some of you need to get over your testosterone rush and take a good long look at yourselves.
This thread should have been closed long ago.
TeeArr
TeeArr, it doesn't matter how old he is or how old im not, what matters is this thread is filled with a whine and cry cuz the game isn't "easy" for him. Most the guys on here whine more than any female i know. come on, get a grip already...if your tired of the game or its not fun, move on and find something else to do. i was only being honest on how i felt by reading his post, i wasn't patronizing him nor do you know anything about me to know ANYTHING about "what i have been through".
if he didn't want people to speak their minds then he shouldn't have made a whine thread...that is all...
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A lot of responses here address the need for the player to evolve and those are spot on in my opinion.
I am a night worker and my evenings off I reserve for family and when I can the AvA, but the new changes have me considering trying MA in the off hours occasionally.
The arena transition is at a set time, so players can adjust their times to avoid it or create for themselves the new challenge of trying to reach their goals before the switchover.
The new settings require people to change their tactics to accomplish what they did before.
Gives us all new challenges.
What I am hearing a lot is "This game sucks because I can't do things exactly the way I always did before."
Well, wouldn't that be kind of boring?
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I agree with qbert. Game is awesome game play sucks. Game is supposed to be about combat not farming. Want to farm go play farmville. All you clowns do anymore is come in at 20k in spixteens and Lgays and then,when u lose your alt and e u run to your nearest base and hide in the ack, or u up 190s or a mossi's and see how many people u can ho b4 u die or u up bombers and shut down bases where a almost good fight is going on with no intent of taking the base. Yet all of you are so quick to point fingers at others and judge everybody from your high horses about how lame each other are and how much bigger and better you are then them (funny how everybody that plays Aces High is 6' 5" tall and 300+ pounds of pure muscle). LOL get over yourselves you spend the majority of your time playing a fricking video game I assure you none of you almighty gamers are better then anybody including myself.
enjoy flaming me on spelling grammar and whatever
I'll not flame you on spelling or grammar but you do dress funny. :neener:
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I agree with qbert. Game is awesome game play sucks. Game is supposed to be about combat not farming. Want to farm go play farmville. All you clowns do anymore is come in at 20k in spixteens and Lgays and then,when u lose your alt and e u run to your nearest base and hide in the ack, or u up 190s or a mossi's and see how many people u can ho b4 u die or u up bombers and shut down bases where a almost good fight is going on with no intent of taking the base. Yet all of you are so quick to point fingers at others and judge everybody from your high horses about how lame each other are and how much bigger and better you are then them (funny how everybody that plays Aces High is 6' 5" tall and 300+ pounds of pure muscle). LOL get over yourselves you spend the majority of your time playing a fricking video game I assure you none of you almighty gamers are better then anybody including myself.
enjoy flaming me on spelling grammar and whatever
Thats hilarious. No really. Almost as funny as killing one of your buffs DMGOD, only to have you bail the other two as I came around for another pass, and then amazingly enough watching several more members of your fine squad do the same. I do not understand how you can be pointing at others gameplay as poor after witnessing that sir <S>.
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Thats hilarious. No really. Almost as funny as killing one of your buffs DMGOD, only to have you bail the other two as I came around for another pass, and then amazingly enough watching several more members of your fine squad do the same. I do not understand how you can be pointing at others gameplay as poor after witnessing that sir <S>.
I definitely need more Cheese please.
All the Best...
Jay
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I agree with qbert. Game is awesome game play sucks.
I imagine if you would stop whining each time you get shot down and accuse each and everyone that shoots you down of HOing, your game play might just improve.
ack-ack
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TeeArr, it doesn't matter how old he is or how old im not, what matters is this thread is filled with a whine and cry cuz the game isn't "easy" for him. Most the guys on here whine more than any female i know. come on, get a grip already...if your tired of the game or its not fun, move on and find something else to do. i was only being honest on how i felt by reading his post, i wasn't patronizing him nor do you know anything about me to know ANYTHING about "what i have been through".
if he didn't want people to speak their minds then he shouldn't have made a whine thread...that is all...
Betty, I understand why you think this, but you have to realize, the war has been impossible to win since the cap changes. If the ultimate goal of a large percentage of the player base is impossible to achieve, do you think they will stick around? And be careful by saying 'good riddance' to a high percentage of the player base that takes a ton of money, targets, and fun out of the game. A goal oriented game is a happy game for everyone.
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Betty, I understand why you think this, but you have to realize, the war has been impossible to win since the cap changes. If the ultimate goal of a large percentage of the player base is impossible to achieve, do you think they will stick around? And be careful by saying 'good riddance' to a high percentage of the player base that takes a ton of money, targets, and fun out of the game. A goal oriented game is a happy game for everyone.
grizz, if people are burned out or tired of the game for whatever reason...then they should take a break and come back when the game can be fun for them again. or do as others have suggested, try a different style of playing. winning the war doesn't mean anything to me. and as potential targets...the AK's are always around *grin*
seriously, how many whine threads do you see on here? its just bunch of whiners cryin over spilled milk. move on if u have to move and that is that. it is what it is .......
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grizz, if people are burned out or tired of the game for whatever reason...then they should take a break and come back when the game can be fun for them again. or do as others have suggested, try a different style of playing. winning the war doesn't mean anything to me. and as potential targets...the AK's are always around *grin*
seriously, how many whine threads do you see on here? its just bunch of whiners cryin over spilled milk. move on if u have to move and that is that. it is what it is .......
So basically, you think a high percentage of the player base that enjoys winning the war should either change the way they enjoy the game or quit?
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The game has turned into horde vrs horde furrballs most of the time, just my opinion some will agree some won't but still it's an opinion, i still find fun fights but there getting harder to come by :joystick:
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Simply put: I am responsible for my own happiness. It is up to me to make the neccessary changes to have fun. There is so much to do here, that it is not our choices that are limited, it's the old habits that have not updated as the game has.
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Me i will comeback when i get my nerdy aimbot n my 47 ping connection n my indestructable RUNO9 ill be back :aok heehehehee i JOKES. ill be back when i get a new desktop . just joking.
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The game has changed a lot since I've been here. A lot good, some not. Bring back good old tank town :rock That was always a blast.
Some days more folks were in tanks than planes :)
Remember when 3 resets a day were common? And FUN.
A lot of people unhappy about dar change. I don't know, what was dar capabilities in that time period?
Others unhappy about towns. It's ashamed that customers get mad or disgusted enough to quit, that doesn't help any business.
It seems to me that an "adapt or quit" method is one for doom. I hope that we would encourage people to stay and not say
discouraging words to the ones that are trying to express their feelings as a customer. We all whine about things from time to time,
we should not be cruel, or abusive to ones we have a strong, common bond herewith. (did I type that? I should be a politician,lol)
I hope people will evolve and adapt vs leaving.
<S> Oz
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Betty, I understand why you think this, but you have to realize, the war has been impossible to win since the cap changes. If the ultimate goal of a large percentage of the player base is impossible to achieve, do you think they will stick around? And be careful by saying 'good riddance' to a high percentage of the player base that takes a ton of money, targets, and fun out of the game. A goal oriented game is a happy game for everyone.
The war isn't any more impossible to win now.
Wonder why you never see small maps? The war gets won. Large maps = more bases = harder to "win teh warz".
wrongway
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The game has turned into horde vrs horde furrballs most of the time, just my opinion some will agree some won't but still it's an opinion, i still find fun fights but there getting harder to come by :joystick:
I'm sure the 68's had problems finding fights at port 14 last night-nearly the entire Nit country was there...the few die-hard Rooks finally left
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So basically, you think a high percentage of the player base that enjoys winning the war should either change the way they enjoy the game or quit?
yep....i guess that is what i am sayin grizz. if there is something that bores you about the game or makes it no longer any fun for u, do something else. try FSO or different SEA events, try AvA arena, there are many other options. and if you try all of them and it STILL isn't want you want or enjoy, then maybe move on and do something else with a different kind of game.
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yep....i guess that is what i am sayin grizz. if there is something that bores you about the game or makes it no longer any fun for u, do something else. try FSO or different SEA events, try AvA arena, there are many other options. and if you try all of them and it STILL isn't want you want or enjoy, then maybe move on and do something else with a different kind of game.
I think this thinking is flawed. This game is designed largely around the community (which I think HiTech has shown as of late, no matter how unhappy some are with the vote for the B-29) and just giving up and leaving won't fix anything, and the game will crumble.
I do however agree with your comments about whine threads, they are largely annoying, repetitive, and unproductive. I feel that if someone has a problem with something, they should at least TRY to come up with an innovative solution, and not just "go back to how it was." If you complain about something, you better have a better way of doing it, or your complaint is hollow, which then becomes a whine.
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Wonder why you never see small maps? The war gets won. Large maps = more bases = harder to "win teh warz".
Never see small maps? Seems you're a LWO pilot ;)
LWB had small maps most of the time...
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The game has changed a lot since I've been here. A lot good, some not. Bring back good old tank town :rock That was always a blast.
Some days more folks were in tanks than planes :)
Remember when 3 resets a day were common? And FUN.
I agree about Tank Town.. but not about the resets.
Yes that did happen... but it was hardly fun. It did happen only because withe the old rules 2 bigger countries could pile on the smaller one in a race for reset. Players complaining that it's all about hordes or gangbanging today, had been either not there at that time, or have rose tinted glasses when looking into the past. ;)
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I'm sure the 68's had problems finding fights at port 14 last night-nearly the entire Nit country was there...the few die-hard Rooks finally left
i dont know if they did or didnt i dont fly with them
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The war isn't any more impossible to win now.
Wonder why you never see small maps? The war gets won. Large maps = more bases = harder to "win teh warz".
wrongway
Lusche posted stats that indicated base taking has dropped in half since the town update.
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Lusche posted stats that indicated base taking has dropped in half since the town update.
and as soon as base takers learn the new layout, they'll probably go back up. or when they learn to read a map, and coordinate; :devil
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They must know how many buildings there are now. I think they just lose count.
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Lusche posted stats that indicated base taking has dropped in half since the town update.
that may be true, but the maps do get reset.. even the knights "won" one a week or two ago..
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that may be true, but the maps do get reset.. even the knights "won" one a week or two ago..
Almost all resets since the update have been TT resets. It'S incredibly hard to win LWO within a week. And with the new arena format, the likelihood of "won" wars will further decrease.
While I do not not fight to win the war, It's my firm belief that it's absolutely necessary to give players a good chance to do so.
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They must know how many buildings there are now. I think they just lose count.
that's the part i was talking about coordination.
like.......you take the west side, i take the center, soulss would take the east side. we all have our maps. we all count out acks as we kill em. if there's resistance, then we hopefully handle that too....but we have fun trying.
maps and coordination are the key. we had it down pat in the hired guns. satans playmates did too.
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that may be true, but the maps do get reset.. even the knights "won" one a week or two ago..
Now this is very unexceptable. Who the heck let the knights win? :furious
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ok before i get to my point i'll admit i skipped a few pages of this thread... thing is after seeing so many posts putting down the OP I felt i must say that pretty much all ive seen/heard ingame is " oh they've made this game unwinnable now" " what the hell?? now we only have half a week to win? thats BS " and similar comments about the new arena switching , which , IMO, kinda backs up the OP's sentiments.
Ok so maybe I took a 4 year break away from the game but the amount of changes I've seen and thought " ouch" over since coming back surprised me... this is yet another that I can see causing dissension amongst players for quite some time.
Oh and to the poster on the first page (oldman i believe it was ) who commented on the " men-in-tights MMPGs) if I was you I'd go back to your oh so knowledgable friends and politely ask them to stop talking about things untill they know what they are talking about. I was a GameSage for a MMORPG for approx 18 months and can confirm that PvP is very much a part of 90% of MMORPG's.. Its entirely up to the players if they wanna fight other players or AI , more often than not you end up fighting both.. could you imagine if in AH your 1v1 with another player when you blunder into the range of 3 or 4 AI controlled planes... actually that could be rather interesting....
Enbough ranting back to doing what I prefer to do... playing the game and having fun!!
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What is it you like(d) to do that you can no longer do?
wrongway
Very simple he can't take down a town by his self any more & be sure he got it all on airfields,& on V/bases & ports he cant kill all the guns & he can't get back in time with M3 before soft gun becomes an auto gun & kills him or his troops. :aok
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Most the guys on here whine more than any female i know. come on, get a grip already...if your tired of the game or its not fun, move on and find something else to do... if he didn't want people to speak their minds then he shouldn't have made a whine thread...that is all...
seriously, how many whine threads do you see on here? its just bunch of whiners cryin over spilled milk. move on if u have to move and that is that. it is what it is .......
I fear Betty.
:bolt:
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They must know how many buildings there are now. I think they just lose count.
It also takes awhile to get used to the new graphics - at first, I couldn't tell from any further than 50 yards if a town building was up or not. Like anything else, it took some getting used to. I'd be surprised if many of the more casual "take territory" players like myself are only just now getting the hang of telling if it's down or not.
<S>
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And it is his first topic on the BBS.
Oakranger, You are so predictable. Nothing worthwhile to add to the topic. Just some comment to show that you were here...
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For a first one, it's a whopper. Though, I've always recommended getting some posts under your belt before posting a flame inducing whine thread.
ack-ack
Just what we need. More words of wisdom from Ack-Ack.. Where would Aces High and this bulletin board be without you?
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Personally i look forward to AckCracks replys. They are well informed and make me laugh my arse off. :neener:
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Oakranger, You are so predictable. Nothing worthwhile to add to the topic. Just some comment to show that you were here...
And you feel that this contributes to this thread, how???? :headscratch:
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Will you ladies and Betty keep the whining down in here and take it outside already? Big deal, so it takes a well organized effort to quickly take a base, wierder and rarer things have happened in this game on any given night.
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I feel this thread has gone no where but down the toilet. This thread taste like old sofa pizzia.
(http://images.creatureworld.net/items/slice_of_mouldy_pizza.png)
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Personally i don't see how someone can't have fun in this game. there are so, so many ways to play that it never gets boring to me. I like the idea of things being more challenging. But I can tell you from experience that if your main goal in this game is to win the war...well you're in for a big disappointment. The war will never be won, there will always be another base to take and someone will always shoot you down. The trick to this game is to find something that you enjoy and have fun doing..... and just do it.
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Personally i don't see how someone can't have fun in this game. there are so, so many ways to play that it never gets boring to me. I like the idea of things being more challenging. But I can tell you from experience that if your main goal in this game is to win the war...well you're in for a big disappointment. The war will never be won, there will always be another base to take and someone will always shoot you down. The trick to this game is to find something that you enjoy and have fun doing..... and just do it.
perfect. :aok
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Personally i don't see how someone can't have fun in this game. there are so, so many ways to play that it never gets boring to me. I like the idea of things being more challenging. But I can tell you from experience that if your main goal in this game is to win the war...well you're in for a big disappointment. The war will never be won, there will always be another base to take and someone will always shoot you down. The trick to this game is to find something that you enjoy and have fun doing..... and just do it.
How dare you suggest doing something else that may even challenge someone, sorry but your way out of line. ;)
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Just what we need. More words of wisdom from Ack-Ack.. Where would Aces High and this bulletin board be without you?
Oh look, another ankle humper. Where would we be without our faithful ankle humpers? Now go run along and be a good boy and wash up for dinner.
ack-ack
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If it is currently too hard to win the war while before it was too easy to win the war, might it be a productive use of time to think of and suggest some adjustments that might shift it to a midpoint between those two extremes?
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It will take the collective some time to ramp up the required knowledge and skillz perhaps?
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Oh look, another ankle humper. Where would we be without our faithful ankle humpers? Now go run along and be a good boy and wash up for dinner.
ack-ack
:neener:
Oh look, another sarcasm noncomprehendor. Where would we be without our faithful literalists? Now go run along and be a good cynic and not catch a joke.
-Penguin
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Hmmm
maybe it's time for some different method to win the war.. one which is not only based on captured ground alone... :headscratch:
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Hmmm
maybe it's time for some different method to win the war.. one which is not only based on captured ground alone... :headscratch:
Oh No not you as well now. :D
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/B29nuke.jpg)
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Do any of the kids who whine about how tough the game is here also whine about how tough Call of Duty is? Oh wait, bullets shoot like lazers there, deflection shooting doesn't exist, basically point and click...
I see... Nevermind.
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It is not that it is hard to "win the war", it's that they don't know how to do it. For so long the NOE with 25+ of your closest friends, or the general "horde attack" has been their bread and butter. Now with the town changes, and radar changes the is too much of a chance for someone to up and defend. In most cases this destroys an attack and totally discourages the attackers. They mope for a bit then try a base on the other side of the map.
Time to learn some new tactics, and to learn how to execute them
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It is not that it is hard to "win the war", it's that they don't know how to do it. For so long the NOE with 25+ of your closest friends, or the general "horde attack" has been their bread and butter. Now with the town changes, and radar changes the is too much of a chance for someone to up and defend. In most cases this destroys an attack and totally discourages the attackers. They mope for a bit then try a base on the other side of the map.
Time to learn some new tactics, and to learn how to execute them
Nah, it's impossible on a large map.
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Oh look, another ankle humper. Where would we be without our faithful ankle humpers? Now go run along and be a good boy and wash up for dinner.
ack-ack
:lol :rofl :rofl :rofl It's funny, because it's true.
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I've been playing this game for about a year now and it has become a big part of my daily routine. For me, and as evidenced by the declining numbers may other players found the changes made to the game strategy brought out by the update in the town graphics and subsequent degree of difficulty in taking a base, I found the game to be frustrating instead of fun. The failure of the WW1 forums should have been enough evidence that to a good portion of the game is base capture and the winning of maps is as important if not more than what your overall rank is. With this latest change I can just see this a a typical scenario...
(You come in and start playing a 1PM only to have the game change a 3PM just as you were about to get a base you had been working on for the last 2 hours, only to be told sorry gents we got to switch to the night arena you'll have to finish tomorrow, and don't forget to be there at 4am or the base you had sweatted your butt off to get will be back up.)
It's already bad enough that Titanic Tuesdays mean nothing more than score hoarding because taking a base means nothing.
AH, I'm pissed and I hate to say this but unless the games changes make the game fun to play then there is no point in playing the game.
Robert
Change your routine. start doing something on the game you don't or haven't done much, fly a plane you don't like enough to start liking it. :salute
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Change your routine. start doing something on the game you don't or haven't done much, fly a plane you don't like enough to start liking it. :salute
Yeah Qbert, for example you hang with me all day. No wonder you wanna leave(jk)
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Oh look, another ankle humper. Where would we be without our faithful ankle humpers? Now go run along and be a good boy and wash up for dinner.
ack-ack
:rofl :rofl :rofl
<S> Oz
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that's the part i was talking about coordination.
like.......you take the west side, i take the center, soulss would take the east side. we all have our maps. we all count out acks as we kill em. if there's resistance, then we hopefully handle that too....but we have fun trying.
maps and coordination are the key. we had it down pat in the hired guns. satans playmates did too.
Well all I can say is if any side is waiting for the three of us to take a town down, they are in for a long day. :lol
Have you noticed they reduced the lethality of torpedos when dropped on towns? They used to be much more effective.
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Nah, it's impossible on a large map.
Do you think that a reason that maps dont roll as much could be that more are willing, and capable of being able to defend against horde noe's?
I would expect that it might have something to do with it, wouldnt you?
Its possible on a large map, there just isnt enough time in the week not only that but bases have defenders now, but isnt that the idea for the other side is to prevent it? The goal per se?
Bases were rolled quickly before since nobody would defend them, or at least the majority would not even attempt to defend against it, now you have the ability to defend against them and for the most part they do.
That isnt a fair fight because they dont reset maps as much anymore?
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Have you noticed they reduced the lethality of torpedos when dropped on towns? They used to be much more effective.
Yeah, I sent in some films showing how the last update nerfed the torpedoes and how inaccurately modeled they are. You used to be able to take out 5-6 buildings with a single torpodo dropped at 500 feets at a 30 degree angle but now you're lucky to take out one building, maybe two tops! THINGS HAVE TO CHANGE!
ack-ack
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Seems like the vGuys have no troubles milk running bases on a large map...
ack-ack
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Do you think that a reason that maps dont roll as much could be that more are willing, and capable of being able to defend against horde noe's?
I would expect that it might have something to do with it, wouldnt you?
Its possible on a large map, there just isnt enough time in the week not only that but bases have defenders now, but isnt that the idea for the other side is to prevent it? The goal per se?
Bases were rolled quickly before since nobody would defend them, or at least the majority would not even attempt to defend against it, now you have the ability to defend against them and for the most part they do.
That isnt a fair fight because they dont reset maps as much anymore?
Yea pretty much. It doesn't take many defenders to prevent a much larger force from capturing a field anymore. Also, it takes longer to get a town down, and it is much less systematic. There are always scattered buildings that people missed. Before you know it the town is popping back up in random places, and as you try to take those buildings down again, other scattered buildings are popping. it becomes a never ending cycle where the only feasible solution is to give up, wait for the entire town to come back up and start over.
Honestly there needs to be some sort of damage enhancer also added to the town buildings. For example, if you destroy a town building it stays down for what, 45 minutes? As soon as it comes up, if you destroy it again within another X minutes, it should stay down longer the second time as some sort of "heavy attack consistency factor". Whatever you want to call it. At least give a prolonged attack more incentive to stay and hammer away at a base. It's silly to play whack a mole with town buildings as they keep popping up over and over again.
As for winning a war, I think this must be a certainty in a reasonable period of time (1 week-2weeks) If not, the game becomes mindless with no goals. Also, in addition to that, I think there should be a feature in the game, (gasp, anti score guys cover your eyes), which keeps track of the War Statistics over time. It should give stats on the three countries and the previous wars that were won. This provides additional incentive to engage in strategic gameplay in aces high. This is all very important stuff regardless of what diehard furball BBS vets will say. If they had their way this game would be dead.
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Seems like the vGuys have no troubles milk running bases on a large map...
ack-ack
Well, they are willing to die 50 times to get one base. That is dedication....and fun as hell :D
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I dont think they are "willing" to die, but its just that dieing 50 times is a bi product of being a vTard :D
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Quote from: Crash Orange on Today at 07:53:31 AM
Way to miss the point sailing twenty feet over your head.
He never said he wanted "the game" to be easier for HIM. Everybody else plays by the same rules. Everybody would be equally affected. And he's not talking about the flight model, or making his bullets act like heat-seaking howitzer rounds, or any other aspect of the game related to the simulation of air combat.
I think all fans would agree that baseball would not be a better game if the outfield fence was 800 feet from home plate. Football would not be a better game if it took 30 yards to get a first down rather than ten. Basketball wouldn't be a better game if the rim was 30 feet off the ground (though some might consider 12 feet an improvement...) Complaining about the rules if any of those changes was instituted wouldn't be about "dumbing down" the game or making it easier for any particular player.
The point is that in any game there is a proper balance between offense and defense that leads to the best gameplay. The OP was saying that balance is out of whack in AH, it has only been made worse by recent changes, and a lot of players are unhappy and may leave as a result - not because it's "too hard" for him to get kills or compete with other players but because gameplay is suffering due to the inability for anyone to achieve any strategic results.
Whether you agree or disagree, deliberately misunderstanding the OP's argument and arguing like a 2-year-old in response isn't helpful.
+1
Couldn't agree more.
Bases are too difficult to take in a global strategic sense. Yeah, it can be done, but it requires too many people and too much time to be worth a damn on a map sized for 2000 players.
Bases used to be very easy to capture but what many of you here fail to understand is how that promoted a goal oriented game. Players could actually make an impact in the war with just a couple friends. Heck me and bipolar used to try and sneak bases just the two of us from time to time and it was a blast. Sometimes a few of us muppets would NOE raid a base deep into enemy territory and then defend the hell out of it and call it an "Alamo Mission". That part of the game is dead.
Another failure of this game is to tie in the size of the map to the difficulty of capturing a base. How many large maps have been won since the newest town updates? You get one week to win a war(before the cap update anyway)...I highly doubt a large map has been won, in fact I doubt a large map hasn't even been close to being won.
Not a very organized post, but just a few random thoughts regarding how the new towns have negatively effected the game.
+1 to what Crashorange and what Grizz said
To all those saying base taking is irrelevent, shouldnt you be in the DA?
Dont care what peeps say I am a happy toolshedding. basetaking. mission runner because that IS what the main arena is about getting into a damn good scrap whilst doing it is a bonus.
These posts say the plain truth. And this is the reason what was was left of our sqaud quit AH.
My favorite thing to do was gv spawn batles. The M4 76 is the best tank for un camping a agressivly camped spawn. (ie 85 or 135)
When they perked the M4 76 It made it costly to uncamp. All ofthe free tanks are not much use for uncamping.
For this reason I did contunue to play until i had used all of my gv points. At that point everything i enjoyed in playing the game had been removed.
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In the interest of 'winning the war'.
Put it back the way it was when the base takers could do it so easily. Change the radar back, make the towns easier to knock out. Give them what they want so they stop whining.
I'd only would like a little in return.
Front line bases only hold fighters. You want to bomb with mediums, you are stuck at the fields further behind the front line. You want 4 engine bombers, you have to come from far away.
Folks keep wanting to call this a war. Well they didn't launch 4 engine bombers from the front line bases. Those were usually fields with PSP for runways. 4 engine birds didn't go from that close. They needed longer, more established bases to support them. Mediums weren't much better in terms of needing longer runways and more support. You want to do it quick then you are coming with fighter bombers. No more NOE Lancs unless you've got guys willing to fly them for a lot longer. Guess what. I see the dar bar start to form from the bases where the Heavies have to launch from. Chances are good that I'll round up some fighters to be up their waiting for you. Guess you better get some escorts. Damn! All of a sudden we've got a fight up high with a purpose. Dar bar starts to grow behind the lines. Hmmm could be the mediums are up and something is brewing on that part of the front. Again, you want to NOE, so be it, but if it's going to be bombers, it's gonna take time.
If you want to take a base it takes boots on the ground, not just paratroops. Can't think of an instance where a town was taken by paratroops that didn't need ground troops to link up for them to hold. Make it include a ground war to move the front, not just a pounded flat town and a stick of paratroopers.
I saw some comment in one of the above posts about tool shedding an base taking being what the MA is about with any combat being just a bonus.
What a load of crap. Which war was that where there was no combat?
You can't claim this is a 'war' without fighting one. That means combat.
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In the interest of 'winning the war'.
Put it back the way it was when the base takers could do it so easily. Change the radar back, make the towns easier to knock out. Give them what they want so they stop whining.
I'd only would like a little in return.
Front line bases only hold fighters. You want to bomb with mediums, you are stuck at the fields further behind the front line. You want 4 engine bombers, you have to come from far away.
Folks keep wanting to call this a war. Well they didn't launch 4 engine bombers from the front line bases. Those were usually fields with PSP for runways. 4 engine birds didn't go from that close. They needed longer, more established bases to support them. Mediums weren't much better in terms of needing longer runways and more support. You want to do it quick then you are coming with fighter bombers. No more NOE Lancs unless you've got guys willing to fly them for a lot longer. Guess what. I see the dar bar start to form from the bases where the Heavies have to launch from. Chances are good that I'll round up some fighters to be up their waiting for you. Guess you better get some escorts. Damn! All of a sudden we've got a fight up high with a purpose. Dar bar starts to grow behind the lines. Hmmm could be the mediums are up and something is brewing on that part of the front. Again, you want to NOE, so be it, but if it's going to be bombers, it's gonna take time.
If you want to take a base it takes boots on the ground, not just paratroops. Can't think of an instance where a town was taken by paratroops that didn't need ground troops to link up for them to hold. Make it include a ground war to move the front, not just a pounded flat town and a stick of paratroopers.
I saw some comment in one of the above posts about tool shedding an base taking being what the MA is about with any combat being just a bonus.
What a load of crap. Which war was that where there was no combat?
You can't claim this is a 'war' without fighting one. That means combat.
Can I give you a Bear hug?
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Front line bases only hold fighters. You want to bomb with mediums, you are stuck at the fields further behind the front line. You want 4 engine bombers, you have to come from far away.
Folks keep wanting to call this a war. Well they didn't launch 4 engine bombers from the front line bases. Those were usually fields with PSP for runways. 4 engine birds didn't go from that close. They needed longer, more established bases to support them. Mediums weren't much better in terms of needing longer runways and more support. You want to do it quick then you are coming with fighter bombers. No more NOE Lancs unless you've got guys willing to fly them for a lot longer. Guess what. I see the dar bar start to form from the bases where the Heavies have to launch from. Chances are good that I'll round up some fighters to be up their waiting for you. Guess you better get some escorts. Damn! All of a sudden we've got a fight up high with a purpose. Dar bar starts to grow behind the lines. Hmmm could be the mediums are up and something is brewing on that part of the front. Again, you want to NOE, so be it, but if it's going to be bombers, it's gonna take time.
If you want to take a base it takes boots on the ground, not just paratroops. Can't think of an instance where a town was taken by paratroops that didn't need ground troops to link up for them to hold. Make it include a ground war to move the front, not just a pounded flat town and a stick of paratroopers.
I saw some comment in one of the above posts about tool shedding an base taking being what the MA is about with any combat being just a bonus.
What a load of crap. Which war was that where there was no combat?
You can't claim this is a 'war' without fighting one. That means combat.
Too true and very valid. This would be a great game change and effective...bomber barons can still choose their own alt inbound to the target. I give this idea a 9 for realism although the creativity has already been used......IN WW II! lmao...do this
V/r
Changeup
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I agree about Tank Town.. but not about the resets.
Yes that did happen... but it was hardly fun. It did happen only because withe the old rules 2 bigger countries could pile on the smaller one in a race for reset. Players complaining that it's all about hordes or gangbanging today, had been either not there at that time, or have rose tinted glasses when looking into the past. ;)
The Fun part, IMO was the fact that we could see 4-5 maps a day. Not the same one over and over and over.....
<S> Oz
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Well all I can say is if any side is waiting for the three of us to take a town down, they are in for a long day. :lol
Have you noticed they reduced the lethality of torpedos when dropped on towns? They used to be much more effective.
not only that, but i can't fly submerged anymore!! :cry
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IF you are happy with the gameplay then you are fortunate....I am not having fun or experiencing any desire to play the game. There is absolutely no point to the game anymore...there is no drama....there is no need to log on to accomplish something.....
Grizz you actually understand it....many folks really want a goal or story as part of their gameplay...so many guys have no concept of this...but THIS is why this community has never grown as it should have while about any other ww2 game explodes when it hits the stores...its sad really...
I can have an identical experience any day of the week....
1. log in
2. decide to horde
3. decide to fight a horde
4. leave within an hour of logging...often within 15 minutes
5. Play AION which is freaking awesome and has ability for PvP or PvE with rewards for anything you do!
6. Promise myself to play AH2 tomorrow...
Call it burnout or whatever you wish...I have been an addict since 1997...I used to have the game at work and play it during lunch etc...i would rush home and play until 2 am every night....the latest changes have slowly sapped any desire or NEED to play away...the maps dont change and noone REALLY needs assistance anymore...the town changes have made it close to impossible to take a base so even defending has become somewhat optional....
For now I am rushing home to level up my Ranger (Falconwing) in AION and have already logged into the website 4 times today to check status of broker etc...my legion uses ventrillo so i can experience the same chitchat as here (loads more girls though :D) I am lacking sleep and my family is beginning to wonder where I am...i guess that means i am having fun... :O I am sorry that I'm not havign fun in AH anymore here...I really wish i was...and by the numbers, I would guess that I am not the only one .....
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Too true and very valid. This would be a great game change and effective...bomber barons can still choose their own alt inbound to the target. I give this idea a 9 for realism although the creativity has already been used......IN WW II! lmao...do this
V/r
Changeup
Boo, I enjoy killing lancstukas over bases in my ostiwind! :D Seroiusly, I like the idea and it could help out with the lancstukaing of cvs!
<cough> gonna need my me-410! :P
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In the interest of 'winning the war'.
Put it back the way it was when the base takers could do it so easily. Change the radar back, make the towns easier to knock out. Give them what they want so they stop whining.
I'd only would like a little in return.
Front line bases only hold fighters. You want to bomb with mediums, you are stuck at the fields further behind the front line. You want 4 engine bombers, you have to come from far away.
Folks keep wanting to call this a war. Well they didn't launch 4 engine bombers from the front line bases. Those were usually fields with PSP for runways. 4 engine birds didn't go from that close. They needed longer, more established bases to support them. Mediums weren't much better in terms of needing longer runways and more support. You want to do it quick then you are coming with fighter bombers. No more NOE Lancs unless you've got guys willing to fly them for a lot longer. Guess what. I see the dar bar start to form from the bases where the Heavies have to launch from. Chances are good that I'll round up some fighters to be up their waiting for you. Guess you better get some escorts. Damn! All of a sudden we've got a fight up high with a purpose. Dar bar starts to grow behind the lines. Hmmm could be the mediums are up and something is brewing on that part of the front. Again, you want to NOE, so be it, but if it's going to be bombers, it's gonna take time.
If you want to take a base it takes boots on the ground, not just paratroops. Can't think of an instance where a town was taken by paratroops that didn't need ground troops to link up for them to hold. Make it include a ground war to move the front, not just a pounded flat town and a stick of paratroopers.
I saw some comment in one of the above posts about tool shedding an base taking being what the MA is about with any combat being just a bonus.
What a load of crap. Which war was that where there was no combat?
You can't claim this is a 'war' without fighting one. That means combat.
Not sure about all of that but I think we are in agreement that the game needs more strategic focus. Furballing is fun for a lot of people but you need something to tie it all together.
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In the interest of 'winning the war'.
Put it back the way it was when the base takers could do it so easily. Change the radar back, make the towns easier to knock out. Give them what they want so they stop whining.
I'd only would like a little in return.
Front line bases only hold fighters. You want to bomb with mediums, you are stuck at the fields further behind the front line. You want 4 engine bombers, you have to come from far away.
Folks keep wanting to call this a war. Well they didn't launch 4 engine bombers from the front line bases. Those were usually fields with PSP for runways. 4 engine birds didn't go from that close. They needed longer, more established bases to support them. Mediums weren't much better in terms of needing longer runways and more support. You want to do it quick then you are coming with fighter bombers. No more NOE Lancs unless you've got guys willing to fly them for a lot longer. Guess what. I see the dar bar start to form from the bases where the Heavies have to launch from. Chances are good that I'll round up some fighters to be up their waiting for you. Guess you better get some escorts. Damn! All of a sudden we've got a fight up high with a purpose. Dar bar starts to grow behind the lines. Hmmm could be the mediums are up and something is brewing on that part of the front. Again, you want to NOE, so be it, but if it's going to be bombers, it's gonna take time.
If you want to take a base it takes boots on the ground, not just paratroops. Can't think of an instance where a town was taken by paratroops that didn't need ground troops to link up for them to hold. Make it include a ground war to move the front, not just a pounded flat town and a stick of paratroopers.
I saw some comment in one of the above posts about tool shedding an base taking being what the MA is about with any combat being just a bonus.
What a load of crap. Which war was that where there was no combat?
You can't claim this is a 'war' without fighting one. That means combat.
Some very good valid points. :aok
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this game is not about rolling bases....sorry whoever said that, this game is about "Virtual Combat" Air, ground,Sea, the "war" is put in place to promote combat. Its been a long time since i took part in taking a base, and when I did it I did it reluctintly....that said, I read a lot of people saying its hard to tell if a building was down, why not just a small piller of black smoke coming out of the destroyed building? If thats too much for FR's change the texture of the destroyed building to Black burnt, out IE make it real easy to see from the air, I do believe the war is important to many here, I dont think HTC should make it impossable to win, just the oppisite, well at least possable to win within a couple hours not weeks, the war guys would be happy, and furballers dont pay attention to the war anyways so why not?
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Not sure about all of that but I think we are in agreement that the game needs more strategic focus. Furballing is fun for a lot of people but you need something to tie it all together.
Agreed. I'm with you to a word and What Falconwing really hits a cord. Almost identical experiences,cept I dont have a fallback game yet. But I do find myself loggin on less and less. And when I do get on I find myself staying on less and less. I remember days when I would kick my kid off the computer at 8:00 and stay till 1-2 AM every night. And logging on Saturday mornings and not logging off till 2-3 AM.
Now Im sure some of it has something to do with a certain degree of burnout. But I know thats not the whole of it. I still WANT to play But back then there was always something that seemed worthwhile to do be it tactically/strategically, furballing, or in the ground game.
As this game is progressing IMO there is just seemingly less and less worthwhile to do. Its getting boring and some aspects have become outright pointless
Strat targets are a classic example of this. Beautifully created target areas. But hitting them does next to nothing. So whats the point?
The game has lost its balance. I enjoy furballing as much as anyone. But there has to be more to the game then just furballing and the horde war.
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Lots of smart things are being said in this thread. I hope Hitech is reading it.
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IF you are happy with the gameplay then you are fortunate....I am not having fun or experiencing any desire to play the game. There is absolutely no point to the game anymore...there is no drama....there is no need to log on to accomplish something.....
Grizz you actually understand it....many folks really want a goal or story as part of their gameplay...so many guys have no concept of this...but THIS is why this community has never grown as it should have while about any other ww2 game explodes when it hits the stores...its sad really...
I can have an identical experience any day of the week....
1. log in
2. decide to horde
3. decide to fight a horde
4. leave within an hour of logging...often within 15 minutes
5. Play AION which is freaking awesome and has ability for PvP or PvE with rewards for anything you do!
6. Promise myself to play AH2 tomorrow...
Call it burnout or whatever you wish...I have been an addict since 1997...I used to have the game at work and play it during lunch etc...i would rush home and play until 2 am every night....the latest changes have slowly sapped any desire or NEED to play away...the maps dont change and noone REALLY needs assistance anymore...the town changes have made it close to impossible to take a base so even defending has become somewhat optional....
For now I am rushing home to level up my Ranger (Falconwing) in AION and have already logged into the website 4 times today to check status of broker etc...my legion uses ventrillo so i can experience the same chitchat as here (loads more girls though :D) I am lacking sleep and my family is beginning to wonder where I am...i guess that means i am having fun... :O I am sorry that I'm not havign fun in AH anymore here...I really wish i was...and by the numbers, I would guess that I am not the only one .....
>
Same...except, I'm not into #2, and I'm not talented enough for #3 (not do I have access to my own personal whord with which to address #3). I'm on hour or so...2 missions...prolly log out of boredom. I FAIL to see what motivates people to look at map, and then head straight for the biggest green darbar with the FEWEST nmy's inside it, WHAT POSSible fun can you have? shooting up buildings? Ya can do that offline
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Sort of what Falconwing said.
The thing with AH2, IMHO, is that it's a treadwheel existence. A Hamster Wheel if you will.
What's the "goal"? What am I working towards?
See, that's the end really. Aces High is great for what it is. I still recommend virtual dogfighters, serious about their craft, give it a try. You will learn more about dogfighting in a month of AH2 than you will in years offline in any other sim.
But then what? I'm an example of a decade long offline player who gave AH2 a solid 2 years of my free time. I got fair at that game; not great, but solidly middle ground. Ultimately, though, after I figured out that living and dying was mostly on my terms and I started to try to figure out how to apply these skills...I felt...lost. Not that I'm some l33t pile-it or something. It's just that, I knew how to size up a fight before I even engaged, and mostly I knew before I even started what the odds were. Beating folks 1v1 or 1v2 or 2v1 or whatever combination was fun. It still is fun. But, after years, what am I working towards?
In other MMO's you work towards something. Higher levels, more gold, better equipment, cooler dungeons, whatever. In AH2, two years in, I'm as likely to beat on some n00b at Dedalos, Storch, SHawk, Steve, whatever. Get my butt handed to me. Maybe club a seal. Whatever. And then what?
Being in the game for what it is is great. But for a long term goal; to work towards some greater purpose...that's what this game misses IMHO. That doesn't make it a bad game; it just makes it not WoW.
Fun is where you find it.
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Let's be clear here though.
There are two separate things being talked/whined about. First is those wanting an easy route to hitting the feeder bar/Perks that doesn't include interacting with anyone else beyond the horde they are in. It's not about combat, it's about reset fast cause that means we've 'won'.
Then there are those who would like some incentive to participate in the 'war'.
A lot of us so called 'furballers' have a long time interest in WW2 aviation history and look for the things in the game that can feed that interest and provide some 'immersion.
Give me a reason to care about the "war". If I see that the heavies are lifting deep in another chess piece land, it at least offers me the opportunity to jump in a 109 or 190 and attempt to intercept them. Maybe it will give me a peek into that part of the airwar that I've read so much about. Maybe I take the old 38 with DTs and go along as escort. Again it provides some of that feel for me of what it may have at least looked like.
There is nothing about joining an NOE raid from a forward base made up of 110s, N1Ks and Lancs that would provide any of that. Make the fighter bomber a valid part of the 'war' and then hopping in Tiffie, Jug or heavy 38 would make more sense to me. To do so just to reset a map is worthless to me.
Right now, with the limited time I get to play, hopping in my 38G and hoping to run into a Japanese bird now and then is what does that. Throw in a good dogfight and it fills those limited hours with a chance to pretend to be a cartoon fighter pilot.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, about the win the reset, horde war, has any sort of ability to feed that need.
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Perhaps it is time to bring back "Fighter Town" with perk points as it was in the "Old Days". Farming fighter perks is what is lacking from the 2 established Furballing Arenas (WW I and Dueling Arena), so maybe that's what is needed to take major furballing out of the MA, but still make it count for something. I don't fly in Hordes very often (an Epic Mission every once in a while) but it seems that the horde is just an extension of the main reason we all are here...Friendship and camaraderie. Just a couple of thoughts to help make and keep the game fun
Tee
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Make no mistake. This is not a "Furballer" problem. I hate that 'go to the DA' crap.
This is about giving the win the war guys an easy enough time so they can feel some success cause apparently it's too hard and they want to take their ball and go home.
Basically what it feels like with most of the complaints, not all, but most, is they want it to be quick,easy, and to involve as little effort and combat as possible so they can change the map and get their perk points and attaboys.
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Make no mistake. This is not a "Furballer" problem. I hate that 'go to the DA' crap.
This is about giving the win the war guys an easy enough time so they can feel some success cause apparently it's too hard and they want to take their ball and go home.
Basically what it feels like with most of the complaints, not all, but most, is they want it to be quick,easy, and to involve as little effort and combat as possible so they can change the map and get their perk points and attaboys.
Thats exactly what it sounds like, but what can be done to fix/appease it?
Take the ack out of town. It would promote more street to street fighting in GVs, easier for those last few buildings to be spotted and taken down because you don't have to dodge ack.
I think the "reward the team with the most bases with 15 perks" when they shut down the arena daily would be a nice "carrot" and something to shoot for. It may even promote defending bases to hold the extra base for the "WIN".
While I hate the idea of strat "hindering" game play by removing ammo/fuel maybe it could be geared toward other things. Keeping the HQ 50% down increase the the time the builds stay down in the town by an addition 15 minutes. Long range bomber squad help the war effort by giving their team more time to get troops into a town.
They look like easy fixes to me (but how would I know really :rolleyes: ), but it helps the game without taking things away, but by adding them
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Make no mistake. This is not a "Furballer" problem. I hate that 'go to the DA' crap.
This is about giving the win the war guys an easy enough time so they can feel some success cause apparently it's too hard and they want to take their ball and go home.
Basically what it feels like with most of the complaints, not all, but most, is they want it to be quick,easy, and to involve as little effort and combat as possible so they can change the map and get their perk points and attaboys.
Dan is the Man. :aok
ack-ack
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Let's be clear here though.
There are two separate things being talked/whined about. First is those wanting an easy route to hitting the feeder bar/Perks that doesn't include interacting with anyone else beyond the horde they are in. It's not about combat, it's about reset fast cause that means we've 'won'.
Then there are those who would like some incentive to participate in the 'war'.
A lot of us so called 'furballers' have a long time interest in WW2 aviation history and look for the things in the game that can feed that interest and provide some 'immersion.
Give me a reason to care about the "war". If I see that the heavies are lifting deep in another chess piece land, it at least offers me the opportunity to jump in a 109 or 190 and attempt to intercept them. Maybe it will give me a peek into that part of the airwar that I've read so much about. Maybe I take the old 38 with DTs and go along as escort. Again it provides some of that feel for me of what it may have at least looked like.
There is nothing about joining an NOE raid from a forward base made up of 110s, N1Ks and Lancs that would provide any of that. Make the fighter bomber a valid part of the 'war' and then hopping in Tiffie, Jug or heavy 38 would make more sense to me. To do so just to reset a map is worthless to me.
Right now, with the limited time I get to play, hopping in my 38G and hoping to run into a Japanese bird now and then is what does that. Throw in a good dogfight and it fills those limited hours with a chance to pretend to be a cartoon fighter pilot.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, about the win the reset, horde war, has any sort of ability to feed that need.
The title of the thread seems clear enough to me....it caught my attention because I (Falconwing) have stopped enjoying this game....not whining..not asking anyone to change anything....I am simply agreeing with the OP that for MYSELF....the changes have sapped whatever it was that made me rush home to log on and play the game...
For years i have read these threads while you (Dan) and other posters have railed against what folks like myself enjoy doing...Gratz...you win...your point of view has been followed and the changes have been made and I have almost completely left this game...enjoy your perfect community that has no room for folks who enjoy different aspects of the game :salute
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If all the base take "whiners" here left the game. All that would be left would be an added duel arena for planes and gvs.
Is it not possible to have good furballs and still win the war. Seems it use to be. :frown:
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This is about giving the win the war guys an easy enough time so they can feel some success cause apparently it's too hard and they want to take their ball and go home.
No. This is not the issue. I don't understand why a smart guy like yourself can't wrap his head around it. It's not about one base being taken with perfect tactics and coordination blah blah blah. It's about the entire freakin war. The setup is too difficult now to win the war in a reasonable amount of time, which is why a large map has not been even close to being reset since the latest town update, hence there is no underlying strategic goal. The game is not balanced anymore. Seriously, would you be happy if all the players left that enjoyed the win the war aspect of the game, cutting the player population in half? That would be great wouldn't it, half the player base. HTC would probably sell the damn game to EA and be done with it, and we all know what EA would do with it. And all the furballers would wonder what went wrong and cry about how hordes, easy moders, and the xbox generation ruined the game when in reality it was their idiotic ignorance and intolerance. Get a clue you people.
/soapbox
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No. This is not the issue. I don't understand why a smart guy like yourself can't wrap his head around it. It's not about one base being taken with perfect tactics and coordination blah blah blah. It's about the entire freakin war. The setup is too difficult now to win the war in a reasonable amount of time, which is why a large map has not been even close to being reset since the latest town update, hence there is no underlying strategic goal. The game is not balanced anymore. Seriously, would you be happy if all the players left that enjoyed the win the war aspect of the game, cutting the player population in half? That would be great wouldn't it, half the player base. HTC would probably sell the damn game to EA and be done with it, and we all know what EA would do with it. And all the furballers would wonder what went wrong and cry about how hordes, easy moders, and the xbox generation ruined the game when in reality it was their idiotic ignorance and intolerance. Get a clue you people.
/soapbox
Not at all what I said. The whines of most, not all. I have no problem with tweaks to the game to encourage the war winners. There are a few looking at it more then just immediate gratification. That's why I said the stuff I did in the earlier post.
Give me a reason to care about the 'war'. I gave my ideas.
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I was going to make a comment ...but Grizz's above post will do just fine.
I'll make one anyway. New players come for combat because they are learning..then they join a squad because they want to be part of a team. Those teams normally like to work together toward a common goal. Take one of these goals away by making it nearly impossible to accomplish and you've lost 1/2 the reason why your playing here. Something else thats lost is ground battles unless in a designated area. No reason to defend a town that can't be taken.
A well rounded game can not be had when you take 1/2 the game away from it's subscribers.
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Someone explain to me again, what's been taken away from 1/2 the subscribers?
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Someone explain to me again, what's been taken away from 1/2 the subscribers?
I would almost call that an attempt at trolling ;) :neener:
It's al about balance. Giving players a goal beyond just "up and mix it up" is important for the balance & health of this game. And reasoning about that, and how to get a balanced total gamnplay has nothing to do with "instant gratification", "looking for teh eazy mode" and so on.
The war game (and thus capturing bases, as for now it's the only way to win this war) is giving a lot of players a goal, something to fight for, it's keeping particularly those unwashed masses interested in the game that would otherwise quickly burn out, pure cannon fodder for a tiny ACM "elite"as they are.
And balance is all important, both in a greater sense (win the war should never hamper or be above other modes of gameplay - that's why we do not have plane factories, central command structures, plane attrition and so on), but also in it's internal conditions. If you allow me to exaggerate a bit: The war system was once "broken" when under the old system we saw several resets a day by clubbing just on the smallest country, and in some way it is "broken" (again: I exaggerate!) now if there is almost no chance in winning the war at all.
Now that doesn't necessarily mean we have to dumb down the towns again.. we can also change the winning conditions, maybe even include the strat game more than it has been done in the past and so on.
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I have no problem with the idea of balance. I would be of the opinion that as long as people are involved, you won't be able to program it in. As you pointed out, in the past it was two sides vs one. How often do you see one country now with overwhelming numbers and the others half that.
Folks want to be a part of the winning team. They want success. They want to feel that sooner then later. How do you program that in? At some point it's on the player isn't it?
Has there been a time where there hasn't been 'something wrong" with the game based on the words of different players?
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I have no problem with the idea of balance. I would be of the opinion that as long as people are involved, you won't be able to program it in. As you pointed out, in the past it was two sides vs one. How often do you see one country now with overwhelming numbers and the others half that.
Folks want to be a part of the winning team. They want success. They want to feel that sooner then later. How do you program that in? At some point it's on the player isn't it?
Has there been a time where there hasn't been 'something wrong" with the game based on the words of different players?
I think people are over thinking this :headscratch: A lot of the points made are good just to complicated IMHO. I like the new town set up & I don't think we should go backwards,how ever it makes it near impossible for the dedicated GV guy to take a base any more.
What I think that would help new people who GV to begin with,because it is the gate way drug of AHII & is the easy mode until they transition to other things. Also the old guard who wants there former town & port & v/base back for the base capture portion of what they like to do.
Time is the enemy with the take a base crowd currently they spend most of the time looking for buildings & never really know if they got the entire town down. So they tower get troops & return & they missed a building or took to long & town has started resetting while on the way back.
Now the old town had a couple of elevated areas where you could situate yourself & give you a birds eye view & hence proceed to destroy buildings you may have missed.
So put a couple of grassy hills either end of town & that will allow GV guys to get a better view of the surroundings & at least see what may be up or down. Also slightly thin out the hedges so it is not so much of a maze,to try & find your self around the edges of town give it a more line of site & direct drive to the point your heading for.
Now with Ports & GV bases leave them as is except for the manned ack guns. With those get rid of the auto ack option they default to when no one is in them so they don't start shooting at you when your back on base with your troops. With only 10 minuets to work with it is just not enough before they come back up.
Any way my two cents worth.
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No. This is not the issue. I don't understand why a smart guy like yourself can't wrap his head around it. It's not about one base being taken with perfect tactics and coordination blah blah blah. It's about the entire freakin war. The setup is too difficult now to win the war in a reasonable amount of time, which is why a large map has not been even close to being reset since the latest town update, hence there is no underlying strategic goal. The game is not balanced anymore. Seriously, would you be happy if all the players left that enjoyed the win the war aspect of the game, cutting the player population in half? That would be great wouldn't it, half the player base. HTC would probably sell the damn game to EA and be done with it, and we all know what EA would do with it. And all the furballers would wonder what went wrong and cry about how hordes, easy moders, and the xbox generation ruined the game when in reality it was their idiotic ignorance and intolerance. Get a clue you people.
/soapbox
A large % of the playerbase understand that winning the war is not the means by which we play. The fact that we can take bases provides an ingenious way of bringing people together to duke it out. Taking this away I agree will make for a very boring game.
Understand however, what I noticed is that more and more of the new guys coming in are coming in for the gaming aspect of it rather than being lured into this game for love of history and interest in WW2 era aviation. They are looking to acheive a goal that keeps them addicted to keep logging them in night after night be it kill messages or feild captures. I can bet that 90% of the new guys that join have absolutley no knowlege of certain flight modeling and could give a rats arse that bomber formations never did a nose down on CVs.
I can agree Grizz that these types of players are easy targets and make up a huge portion on our buffet menu. Also understand that when people play specificly for basetaking that they have no choice but to employ "dirty" tactics. By this I mean gain the advantage at all cost either in #s or sheer surprise. Too much of one thing as we can all remember prior to the town and radar layouts can easily get out of hand and completly destroy the integrity of the game and that alone could cause a huge % of playerbase to quit anyway.
I wouldnt be so drastic and saying that we are going to decline in subscriptions just because town layouts are different, the war cant be won or there is a change in radar settings. It is simply a matter that people need to learn to adapt to a situation and move on. Think of it this way..New subscribers if they joined the game today are not going to have a clue how town, radar settings used to be. They will just adapt differently to the game than I or a large number of people did.
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Enough about adapt and move on. That is not what this thread is about. What Q said, amounts to hit the brakes!! This country reset avoidance system is getting out of hand!!
Sure the game will evolve, but the great thing about the developers of this game is they are talented and can balance player needs and game advancements.
It is possible that we could be going into an entirely different era, but without any announcements about mega changes, I think we mostly know where we stand on what is possible currently with base captures and winning wars.
And, I do think reworking the cap system was necessary and heading in the correct direction. Give these guys time and feedback, they will get it all sorted out.
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IF you are happy with the gameplay then you are fortunate....I am not having fun or experiencing any desire to play the game. There is absolutely no point to the game anymore...there is no drama....there is no need to log on to accomplish something.....
Grizz you actually understand it....many folks really want a goal or story as part of their gameplay...so many guys have no concept of this...but THIS is why this community has never grown as it should have while about any other ww2 game explodes when it hits the stores...its sad really...
I can have an identical experience any day of the week....
1. log in
2. decide to horde
3. decide to fight a horde
4. leave within an hour of logging...often within 15 minutes
5. Play AION which is freaking awesome and has ability for PvP or PvE with rewards for anything you do!
6. Promise myself to play AH2 tomorrow...
Call it burnout or whatever you wish...I have been an addict since 1997...I used to have the game at work and play it during lunch etc...i would rush home and play until 2 am every night....the latest changes have slowly sapped any desire or NEED to play away...the maps dont change and noone REALLY needs assistance anymore...the town changes have made it close to impossible to take a base so even defending has become somewhat optional....
For now I am rushing home to level up my Ranger (Falconwing) in AION and have already logged into the website 4 times today to check status of broker etc...my legion uses ventrillo so i can experience the same chitchat as here (loads more girls though :D) I am lacking sleep and my family is beginning to wonder where I am...i guess that means i am having fun... :O I am sorry that I'm not havign fun in AH anymore here...I really wish i was...and by the numbers, I would guess that I am not the only one .....
>
The thing I don't get is that the most repetitive crap on earth is to be found in games like WOW ( I know nothing about AION but from the website it looks to be "about the same" to my admittedly less than expert eye) . Excluding the burnout factor you are alluding to, what I just don't get is how much everyone loves the repetitive nature of the game play in WOW to the tune of 100's of thousands of subscribers and 10's of thousands of hours of repetitive leveling up, yet here (where there's so many more options for game play) it's considered to be a game fault?
<S>
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I would almost call that an attempt at trolling ;) :neener:
Was not a troll, i'm serious.
I've said the same thing about 3 different ways to try to explain it to people incapable of understanding that different types of people enjoy different aspects of the game so I'm done trying to explain it to them. :)
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Was not a troll, i'm serious.
You missed that I was quoting Guppy, not you?
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Was not a troll, i'm serious.
I've said the same thing about 3 different ways to try to explain it to people incapable of understanding that different types of people enjoy different aspects of the game so I'm done trying to explain it to them. :)
:rofl Was not! Was too! Was not! Was too! :rofl
Waiting for the beating the dead horse pictures to start coming back. :O
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11/24/2010 @ 7:32am (Mountain Time)
Titanic Tuesday (War Win/All inclusive styles of play Arena): 118/850
Dueling Arena (Non-War Win, All Seeing, All Knowing, Simple Combat): 13/200
Word War One Arena (All Seeing, All Knowing, Simple Combat) 1/100
Which one demonstrates more depth & purpose & end-result of the fight, again?
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Obviously Grizz and Lusche "Get It".
Many others.....not so much.
Wab
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11/24/2010 @ 7:32am (Mountain Time)
Titanic Tuesday (War Win/All inclusive styles of play Arena): 118/850
Dueling Arena (Non-War Win, All Seeing, All Knowing, Simple Combat): 13/200
Word War One Arena (All Seeing, All Knowing, Simple Combat) 1/100
Which one demonstrates more depth & purpose & end-result of the fight, again?
Correction: thndregg "Gets It" too.
:D,
Wab
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No. This is not the issue. I don't understand why a smart guy like yourself can't wrap his head around it. It's not about one base being taken with perfect tactics and coordination blah blah blah. It's about the entire freakin war. The setup is too difficult now to win the war in a reasonable amount of time, which is why a large map has not been even close to being reset since the latest town update, hence there is no underlying strategic goal. The game is not balanced anymore. Seriously, would you be happy if all the players left that enjoyed the win the war aspect of the game, cutting the player population in half? That would be great wouldn't it, half the player base. HTC would probably sell the damn game to EA and be done with it, and we all know what EA would do with it. And all the furballers would wonder what went wrong and cry about how hordes, easy moders, and the xbox generation ruined the game when in reality it was their idiotic ignorance and intolerance. Get a clue you people.
/soapbox
Grizz is 100% correct. Best statement thus far...
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Where is AKAK with his "realistic" troll when you need it? :noid
:rofl
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I'm exhausted, so I'm going to wrap this up. But yeah, my $0.02.
didnt feel like taking up space but wanted to get ya highlighted....GREAT post Sector. I Fully agree with what was said here. Not sure about the whole base point "goal" however, if you make the setup the way you stated then the current "must have X amount of bases per country" should indeed suffice seeming how there is an order to cap bases. It'd be cool however, say for instance the Rooks Raid the Bish on one lineup of bases...well if there are that many numbers offensively, who's to say the bish won't just go for another "row" of bases in the oppostie direction. It'd definitely make gameplay more fun none the less and far more intersesting/fun. I fully agree and sure would love to see this concept put into gameplay. :aok
:salute SWkiljoy
125th Spartan Warriors
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Fish is an easy game all you need is cards.
Anyone else have some easy games to help this hand full of folks out for the instant gratification quest?
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Fish is an easy game all you need is cards.
Anyone else have some easy games to help this hand full of folks out for the instant gratification quest?
Who here is on the instant gratification quest?
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Grizz has hit the nail on the head. It seems so simple to me really. If folks do not care about captures or winning the war, they do not have to even if changes are implemented. However to avoid subscriber loss (or baby seals, LOL) you have to make attainable goals for those folks who enjoy this aspect of the game. For myself, I can and will participate in all the activities as it keeps me from getting bored. Of course that's my $15 and not someone else's, who may choose to spend it in another way.
:salute
Way-Level 1 Grizzologist
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Now with Ports & GV bases leave them as is except for the manned ack guns. With those get rid of the auto ack option they default to when no one is in them so they don't start shooting at you when your back on base with your troops.
wait.. this doesn't happen, as far as I know.. manned guns don't start firing automatically if nobody's in 'em, they just sit there..
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You missed that I was quoting Guppy, not you?
Thought you were quoting guppy referring to me :)
2nd part of post was not intended to you obviously. :aok
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Who here is on the instant gratification quest?
Lusche,
Shuffler would fall in to the "...not so much" category.
:rolleyes:,
Wab
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wait.. this doesn't happen, as far as I know.. manned guns don't start firing automatically if nobody's in 'em, they just sit there..
On the few attempts I have made to de-ack bases in early war for a capture via aircraft & GV. The manned acks just shoot the random round not like it will when it is manned.
These attempts were done with no enemy opposition on line to see what a squad mate had told me about. After taking out auto acks the soft guns still keeps shooting even with no one on line. So far he seems to be correct from my couple of attempts.
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Make no mistake. This is not a "Furballer" problem. I hate that 'go to the DA' crap.
This is about giving the win the war guys an easy enough time so they can feel some success cause apparently it's too hard and they want to take their ball and go home.
Basically what it feels like with most of the complaints, not all, but most, is they want it to be quick,easy, and to involve as little effort and combat as possible so they can change the map and get their perk points and attaboys.
yeah....what he said!!! :aok
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Who here is on the instant gratification quest?
The folks asking that the challenge of capturing a base be lowered to make it easier for them to get it. Without regard to making a fight of it.
It seems the fight is not so important to them as it is to get a base. Their gratification is in getting that base... not the fight for it.
The WAR as so many like to call it will ebb and flow no matter what terrain is up. You win some, you lose some.
Now one might suggest HT setup a base room for those that just want to capture to fullfill their desires. There would be no flack guns, no defences, nothing but a big fat bases fit for the taking. No need for different sides.... everyone can be on the same side. To keep from folks not being able to fly there because of their chess piece they could simply call the single side "The Winners".
The gratification would come firly quick and the war could be won while on their lunch hour.
That is a bit overboard but just how easy do they want it?
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this ww2 air combat game/mmo formula, in its most basic form, has been around nearly 20 years. Long before the more complex MMO formulas. There have been lots of tweaks over the years, Im sure lots more to come. I dont think the AH forumla needs to follow WoW or some other such korean fantasy MMO. HTC tried the ToD idea of role playing career based concept and dropped it eventually. It is a dead horse. I wonder if more people are fundamentally happy with the game then those posters here in this thread would seem to suggest.
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The folks asking that the challenge of capturing a base be lowered to make it easier for them to get it. Without regard to making a fight of it.
It seems the fight is not so important to them as it is to get a base. Their gratification is in getting that base... not the fight for it.
The WAR as so many like to call it will ebb and flow no matter what terrain is up. You win some, you lose some.
Now one might suggest HT setup a base room for those that just want to capture to fullfill their desires. There would be no flack guns, no defences, nothing but a big fat bases fit for the taking. No need for different sides.... everyone can be on the same side. To keep from folks not being able to fly there because of their chess piece they could simply call the single side "The Winners".
The gratification would come firly quick and the war could be won while on their lunch hour.
That is a bit overboard but just how easy do they want it?
Here's someone who doesn't "get it".
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Fish is an easy game all you need is cards.
Anyone else have some easy games to help this hand full of folks out for the instant gratification quest?
how bout UNO or skipbo?
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how bout UNO or skipbo?
:rofl
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The folks asking that the challenge of capturing a base be lowered to make it easier for them to get it. Without regard to making a fight of it.
It seems the fight is not so important to them as it is to get a base. Their gratification is in getting that base... not the fight for it.
The WAR as so many like to call it will ebb and flow no matter what terrain is up. You win some, you lose some.
Now one might suggest HT setup a base room for those that just want to capture to fullfill their desires. There would be no flack guns, no defences, nothing but a big fat bases fit for the taking. No need for different sides.... everyone can be on the same side. To keep from folks not being able to fly there because of their chess piece they could simply call the single side "The Winners".
The gratification would come firly quick and the war could be won while on their lunch hour.
That is a bit overboard but just how easy do they want it?
I dont recall seeing anyone say they wanted it that easy to take a base but being one of those who likes to "win the war" I do believe that the current set-up is far from perfect... I like the fact that we dont get 4 or 5 resets a day anymore but in all honesty since i came back to the game earlier this year I havent seen ONE reset caused by a " win" , that to me suggests something is off-kilter. I'll admit its possible that "wins" have occured while ive been offline but I havent even heard of such happening. Mind you IMO it doesnt help when people who would like to win the war get told not to take this or that base because someone wants to have a constant GV battle there or wants to have a non-stop furball. I understand that we all enjoy differnet aspects of the game but feel it should be possible to combine all those elements and still have fun.
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The folks asking that the challenge of capturing a base be lowered to make it easier for them to get it. Without regard to making a fight of it.
It seems the fight is not so important to them as it is to get a base. Their gratification is in getting that base... not the fight for it.
The WAR as so many like to call it will ebb and flow no matter what terrain is up. You win some, you lose some.
Now one might suggest HT setup a base room for those that just want to capture to fullfill their desires. There would be no flack guns, no defences, nothing but a big fat bases fit for the taking. No need for different sides.... everyone can be on the same side. To keep from folks not being able to fly there because of their chess piece they could simply call the single side "The Winners".
The gratification would come firly quick and the war could be won while on their lunch hour.
That is a bit overboard but just how easy do they want it?
So when most of us in this thread are pointing out the importance of having a goal within the game beyond purely "mixing it up" - are we the easy way crowd?
If we feel that the "war winners" should actually have a chance at winning the "war" - Are we catering the easy moders?
If we do think about possible way to balance the different game modes out, thus (hopefully) increasing appeal to many different kind of players in order to keep this game going and maybe even get the numbers up again - is that just egoistical looking for instant gratifcation?
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I dont recall seeing anyone say they wanted it that easy to take a base but being one of those who likes to "win the war" I do believe that the current set-up is far from perfect... I like the fact that we dont get 4 or 5 resets a day anymore but in all honesty since i came back to the game earlier this year I havent seen ONE reset caused by a " win" , that to me suggests something is off-kilter. I'll admit its possible that "wins" have occured while ive been offline but I havent even heard of such happening. Mind you IMO it doesnt help when people who would like to win the war get told not to take this or that base because someone wants to have a constant GV battle there or wants to have a non-stop furball. I understand that we all enjoy differnet aspects of the game but feel it should be possible to combine all those elements and still have fun.
My post was to ask "just how easy does it need to be?"
The easiest would be as I described. Someone can post what they consider easy enough to make them happy. I would be interested in reading folks suggestions. Simply saying "easier" has no bounds.
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My post was to ask "just how easy does it need to be?"
That is a fair question.
It was discussed earlier that there is obviously some "Fun Curve" here. If it’s too easy, its no fun. If it’s too hard, it’s no fun. The trick is indeed to find that "how easy?" balance point.
I believe it also probably has an effect on promoting hordes. If you increase the difficultly and ordinance needed, they will simply bring along a bigger horde to get the job done. If that’s what you want to promote, fine.
I personally feel the sweet spot is somewhere around where a team of 5 decent squad members with some skill and a little luck can have a 50/50 chance of capturing a field themselves. That requires allowing a little stealth to be able to get within striking distance before all heck breaks loose, and requires they can reasonably carry enough ord in fighter/bombers to get the job done considering somebody has to fly a goon.
I assert that because that is a common size a squad might be fielding on a given night. If you balance things so they can have a reasonable chance at success, they will be more motivated to go off and do some squad ops themselves, spreading out the fights and thinning the hordes. In the end, I believe creates a bunch more varied encounters at the bases they are trying to capture and along their ingress route if they are discovered.
If a squad feels they aren’t wasting their time, they will go off on their own and raise little clouds of heck around the map.
If you make it a waste of their time to try, they will simply come in 30 plane armadas to make sure of the job.
Which do you want?
Regards,
Wab
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Heres my idea: Eliminate the "win the war" idea altogether. Rotate the maps once a week and let it go at that. The "win" can come from base captures. Perhaps the more people logged in at the defending base the more perk value the attackers get for it.
Jeeze, the number of different scenarios one can conjure up is almost endless. I doubt any of them have much more merit than any other. Success of AH all comes down to how imaginative the individual player is with a relatively rigid set of game mechanics.
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I personally feel the sweet spot is somewhere around where a team of 5 decent squad members with some skill and a little luck can have a 50/50 chance of capturing a field themselves.
Should a decent team of 5 squad members be able to defend a base against an attack from a another decent team of 5 squad members? 50/50?
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Should a decent team of 5 squad members be able to defend a base against an attack from a another decent team of 5 squad members? 50/50?
Yeager,
I think that sounds about right.
However, I’d assert that it doesn’t take that many. Defense would always require a lower number to be successful than attack. I’d say 3 guys could defend against 5 (given equal skill level). If for no other reason than cycle time.
A defender ups and kills one of your guys then you kill him. He can re-up and be back in the fight immediately because he is AT the scene of battle. The dead attacker would have to come back from a sector away.
A defender runs out of ammo, he augurs and reups a fresh plane AT the scene of battle. An attacker runs out of ammo and they are finished.
Regards,
Wab
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Here's someone who doesn't "get it".
Thank heaven's you are here to enlighten us Grizz. :aok
It seems to me that no matter what is done, you will have folks complaining it isn't to their liking. How is it so many of us have been around such a long time if the game is so messed up?
Could it be we accept the fact that we have some say in whether we have fun within the parameters of the game? There are a ton of choices in how you play, a ton of options as to what you can fly, drive, etc. People come and go and come back again. Sometimes folks just need a break too.
Maybe the people who play need to modify their game, instead of the game designer needing to constantly adjust it to the latest complaint?
Could be the whiners don't get it?
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Thank heaven's you are here to enlighten us Grizz. :aok
It seems to me that no matter what is done, you will have folks complaining it isn't to their liking. How is it so many of us have been around such a long time if the game is so messed up?
Could it be we accept the fact that we have some say in whether we have fun within the parameters of the game? There are a ton of choices in how you play, a ton of options as to what you can fly, drive, etc. People come and go and come back again. Sometimes folks just need a break too.
Maybe the people who play need to modify their game, instead of the game designer needing to constantly adjust it to the latest complaint?
Could be the whiners don't get it?
i agree with you dan, people seem to complain no matter what HTC does or doesn't do to the game. people need to realize that HTC wouldn't make changes to the game if they didn't find it necessary. even if HTC makes changes and later finds out that they didn't work, they always try to do the best thing for the game along with giving the members what they want. we are all human and at some points we are never satisfied but many that are unhappy just seem to like to whine and cry about it a little too much IMHO.
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Could be the whiners don't get it?
Why is everything instantly called a whine? Should we never think about the game, look for possible improvements or adjustments? Never gather any ideas or opinions on how things could further evolve? Just because "you can't please everyone all the time" we should stop to think about how to increase AHs's appeal? Should I just shrug my shoulders when I see my fav game has much less people playing than years ago? (Yes, the business side is not my business, but I want a thriving game population just for egoistical reasons :))
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Why is everything instantly called a whine?
Because dismissing it out-of-hand is easier than actually thinking it thru carefully?
:lol,
Wab
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Maybe the people who play need to modify their game, instead of the game designer needing to constantly adjust it to the latest complaint?
Maybe they have tried but aren't having fun? If that's the case, they need to quit. Numbers are on a decline if you haven't noticed.
HiTech said himself that he is considering raising the time limit of downed buildings in the town because he himself knows that the game is not balanced. Personally I don't think this is enough in itself, because a small squadron still can't kill a town by itself efficiently anymore because it is too spread out. The point is, HiTech knows that the new town that he implemented has caused balancing issues and the complaints are warranted.
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Could it be we accept the fact that we have some say in whether we have fun within the parameters of the game? There are a ton of choices in how you play, a ton of options as to what you can fly, drive, etc. People come and go and come back again. Sometimes folks just need a break too.
Could it be the parameters of the game are acting as a hindrance to the game's full blossoming? It works well enough to keep its cult following of ww2 enthusiasts and the trickling in of new players, but truly great games continue to steadily grow over time.
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i agree with you dan, people seem to complain no matter what HTC does or doesn't do to the game. people need to realize that HTC wouldn't make changes to the game if they didn't find it necessary. even if HTC makes changes and later finds out that they didn't work, they always try to do the best thing for the game along with giving the members what they want. we are all human and at some points we are never satisfied but many that are unhappy just seem to like to whine and cry about it a little too much IMHO.
Yes the people will complain if you gave them a newly printed fifty dollar bill, but the fact remains that the game itself has evolved from just an air combat simulation where capturing bases was meant to engage in air combat into a whole different animal in itself. The hard-core live just to fight majority has left the room with Elvis and yes, we do have a lot of dinosaurs that live and cry by the creed that the game is just about promoting air combat, but that just doesn't float the majority of the casual player's boat. I have to state that Grizz and company does GET IT! The meat and potatoes of the game has evolved into something more along the lines of women like my wife, needy and high maintenance! The majority of the player base needs a goal for them to achieve and they don't live for the "Fight". They want to feel like they are going to accomplish something for their efforts and just winning a dogfight against another player is not enough. You can blame it on society as personal responsibility and honor have been replaced with the liberal doctrine. The bottom line is that the player base needs something to receive for their efforts. Hitech wouldn't constantly strive to improve the game if he still thought it was all about just the personal fight strictly airplane to airplane and person to person combat. To grow the game, you have to grow the rewards. In a perfect world, we could have a game that perfectly reflected the real look and feel of true air combat, but in reality it would be hours upon hours of boredom and just a few minutes of true fear, and you wouldn't be able to jump back into the air because you would be dead or recovering from an injury.
All the Best...
Jay
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The meat and potatoes of the game has evolved into something more along the lines of women like my wife, needy and high maintenance! The majority of the player base needs a goal for them to achieve and they don't live for the "Fight". They want to feel like they are going to accomplish something for their efforts and just winning a dogfight against another player is not enough. You can blame it on society as personal responsibility and honor have been replaced with the liberal doctrine.
Well said
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Why is everything instantly called a whine? Should we never think about the game, look for possible improvements or adjustments? Never gather any ideas or opinions on how things could further evolve? Just because "you can't please everyone all the time" we should stop to think about how to increase AHs's appeal? Should I just shrug my shoulders when I see my fav game has much less people playing than years ago? (Yes, the business side is not my business, but I want a thriving game population just for egoistical reasons :))
Dan just posted the way the win the war types are posting. Do you suggest that both sides of this discussion have different rules?
Your idea of what is appealing is just that... your idea. It is not necessarily appealing to anyone else.
The Game is a business. One that has been very successful. One that wishes to continue being successful.
HT monitors what is said on the boards. It doesn't mean he will do what someone else thinks they want.
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Small towns & High Dar = Not fun - Steamrolling
Big towns & Low Dar = Not fun - Stalemate
Big Town & High Dar
or
Small Towns & Low DAR = Might work.
BTW. I don't care either way. I can find a good fight most times. I get more satisfaction from a good 1-1 than taking a town.
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nevermind. It's pointless.
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The bottom line is that the player base needs something to receive for their efforts. Hitech wouldn't constantly strive to improve the game if he still thought it was all about just the personal fight strictly airplane to airplane and person to person combat......... To grow the game, you have to grow the rewards.
Jay
Yes the player base needs something to receive for our efforts, and not just the fighter jocks (air combat) who by happenstance benefit the most of it all.
With the radar settings now they are, it is much much harder to receiving something for our efforts. THe dar bar from rear bases also don't help. The tight-arena caps, squash cooperation so that HTC can 'pack em in'. All these issues go against what you just said. It does not makes it worth pouring your heart out trying to capture a base, and just denegrates the fight into about "airplane to airplane and person to person combat".
I can't even remember the last time I witnessed one side winning the 'war'. Bases are taken here and then taken back, arena maps are frequently changed, and what you have instead is a meat grinder of base takes on all sides, with a deluge of air-air combat.
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because a small squadron still can't kill a town by itself efficiently anymore because it is too spread out.
Are you kidding? Most players who kill towns have learned where all the buildings are. It isn't like there are ten thousand buildings on an ever changing undulating landscape. Its a stagnant things. Its simply a matter of memory and it isn't that hard. People have GOT to be learning the new town layout by now? Hell, two of us can kill a town now in a few minutes if left unchallenged by defenders. Now, if there is a large defending force, then overwhelming counter force needs to be brought into play. I still think HTs biggest flaw has been in thinking 500+ people can have a good time in a single arena. There is such a thing as "too many people" in the sandbox.
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ok, i have a question for all the "base takers"....
would you feel more victorious if you took a base that had opposition or would you feel more victorious by taking a base that is undefended?
to me, IF and that is a BIG IF, i were to try to take a base (which i have done many times in the past), i would much rather have opposition that to take one that is not defended. sure you have to work for it but if you really want it bad enough, you will get it right?
just curious is all....
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ok, i have a question for all the "base takers"....
would you feel more victorious if you took a base that had opposition or would you feel more victorious by taking a base that is undefended?
to me, IF and that is a BIG IF, i were to try to take a base (which i have done many times in the past), i would much rather have opposition that to take one that is not defended. sure you have to work for it but if you really want it bad enough, you will get it right?
just curious is all....
I could be wrong here, because I don't engage in that part of the game very often but I think the amount of satisfaction would come with the goal they are striving for. If the goal is the base then yes, a hard fought and won battle for the field would probably be more satisfying, however is the goal is the map at large and "winning the war" then I would say it's the opposite because one field is just one step in the process and it's more of a race, getting multiple bases is the goal, and if someone is playing for finite period of time then the object would be to get as many fields in that given period of time to achieve the same sense of accomplishment.
But I'm just taking a shot in the dark here. :)
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ok, i have a question for all the "base takers"....
would you feel more victorious if you took a base that had opposition or would you feel more victorious by taking a base that is undefended?
to me, IF and that is a BIG IF, i were to try to take a base (which i have done many times in the past), i would much rather have opposition that to take one that is not defended. sure you have to work for it but if you really want it bad enough, you will get it right?
just curious is all....
I've done both. Usually what has resulted in the past sneaks I have done, both failed and successful, is that the opposition at defended bases is split. My point is distraction first off. If the sneak works, then the result is a counter-force trying to take it back and then we are defending. OMG.. did I just describe a resulting fight? :huh
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ok, i have a question for all the "base takers"....
would you feel more victorious if you took a base that had opposition or would you feel more victorious by taking a base that is undefended?
to me, IF and that is a BIG IF, i were to try to take a base (which i have done many times in the past), i would much rather have opposition that to take one that is not defended. sure you have to work for it but if you really want it bad enough, you will get it right?
just curious is all....
So if those guys were going on a NOE mission to a base and no one ups to defend it, are they supposed to turn around or abort the mission?
Alot of bases were left "undefended" because no one wanted to defend them.
And don't hand me that "they were too hard to detect" crap. No they weren't.
There are tons of bases on the map--if some guys decide to take some off the beaten track base, who cares?? How does that affect your furball?
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So if those guys were going on a NOE mission to a base and no one ups to defend it, are they supposed to turn around or abort the mission?
Alot of bases were left "undefended" because no one wanted to defend them.
And don't hand me that "they were too hard to detect" crap. No they weren't.
There are tons of bases on the map--if some guys decide to take some off the beaten track base, who cares?? How does that affect your furball?
i know many squads in the game that love the NOE missions, and so be it, i was just curious in which they would feel more victorious. and personally i could care less if people are taking bases, just as long as their not TT bases then its all good. yes boner im a furballer, i go where the fight is, i was just simply asking a question....
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ok, i have a question for all the "base takers"....
would you feel more victorious if you took a base that had opposition or would you feel more victorious by taking a base that is undefended?
to me, IF and that is a BIG IF, i were to try to take a base (which i have done many times in the past), i would much rather have opposition that to take one that is not defended. sure you have to work for it but if you really want it bad enough, you will get it right?
just curious is all....
Not just a base taker here, i try do do whats fun at the time kinda person, first off, in this game now there is no way to take a undefended base...unless that country is blind and can't see the town or Field flashing on the map OR theres no one online for that country, go see EW and MW Arenas for that scenario, to many are concerned with rank and score to bail from a plane and go to that Field to help defend or just show up to furrball and could care less if the Field falls.
As far as what i have seen from helping with a town and Field attack for capture is that the attacking force there is holding there own, more friendlies show up ( your assuming to help) but they just want to furrball with the defenders and not help with taking the base, that's where taking of the base or town gets real hard, like someone posted it takes longer for the attackers to get back to the Field/town then the defenders, UNLESS you drop the FH and VH and BH all in one pass and totally capping thus not allowing anyone to up, this scenario falls under the horde scenario, seems like the horde way is the trend now
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ok, i have a question for all the "base takers"....
would you feel more victorious if you took a base that had opposition or would you feel more victorious by taking a base that is undefended?
to me, IF and that is a BIG IF, i were to try to take a base (which i have done many times in the past), i would much rather have opposition that to take one that is not defended. sure you have to work for it but if you really want it bad enough, you will get it right?
just curious is all....
I may have missed it, but I don’t think I’ve seen anyone in this thread demand to always have undefended base captures. I know for a fact, I’ve fully stipulated (several times) that making base capture too easy would be sub-optimal.
What I’d like to see from you, and others, is a good faith admission that we also don’t want base capture to be too hard. That also would not promote an ideal play-balance.
Once we both stipulate that, we can then begin to have a rational discussion on where that ideal balance point lies. Which might be exactly where it is right now. Or perhaps more towards one side or the other.
If I did nothing but dismiss anything you said as the babbling of the brainless ADHD furball-mafia, then we wouldn’t make much progress.
If you do nothing but dismiss out-of-hand any suggestion, or re-balancing idea as nothing but valueless whining, then it will also be hard for us to have an intelligent exchange of ideas.
Is what is appealing to me appealing to everyone? No. And visa versa I might add. What we are searching for is what can be appealing to the largest number of the current and future customers, while being dissatisfying to the smallest number possible.
That’s not a binary equation, and there will be no black and white answer. I don’t know the exact answer; neither do you; and (shock) neither does HTC.
It’s a learning process for everyone and player feedback and discussion are important inputs to that evaluation.
Regards,
Wab
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Aces High has grown from a homogenious association of like minded enthusists to a very complex community of diversely motivated entertainment seekers. The links I'm including covers very well the foundation of our current personal motivational dillema and social conflicts.
This AINT Kansas anymore guys and none of your complaints, whines, hurt feelings and motivations related to this concept called an MMO are unique from all the MMOG blogs where the guys dress up in magical tights and chase long eared girls, or fly around in the enterpoop and phaze each other in the kester.
If anything we are behind the curve on how long we stayed a purists WW2 and air combat enthusiests refuge. We have been invaded by MMO gaming immigrants with totaly different motivations and values than our traditional Knights of the Sky Honor and Glory code.
This is an excellent analysis of a 3000 player survey result and their motivations. In the final analysis we need all of us to make this game an interesting place.
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001298.php?page=1
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001304.php?page=1
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No. This is not the issue. I don't understand why a smart guy like yourself can't wrap his head around it. It's not about one base being taken with perfect tactics and coordination blah blah blah. It's about the entire freakin war. The setup is too difficult now to win the war in a reasonable amount of time, which is why a large map has not been even close to being reset since the latest town update, hence there is no underlying strategic goal. The game is not balanced anymore. Seriously, would you be happy if all the players left that enjoyed the win the war aspect of the game, cutting the player population in half? That would be great wouldn't it, half the player base. HTC would probably sell the damn game to EA and be done with it, and we all know what EA would do with it. And all the furballers would wonder what went wrong and cry about how hordes, easy moders, and the xbox generation ruined the game when in reality it was their idiotic ignorance and intolerance. Get a clue you people.
/soapbox
I still don't see winnning big maps having anything to do with any recent changes. I contend that big maps were always as hard to reset as they are now.
Got a chart that shows a significat difference in that?
Maybe they have tried but aren't having fun? If that's the case, they need to quit. Numbers are on a decline if you haven't noticed.
Disposible income is down as well. Must be due to game changes.
HiTech said himself that he is considering raising the time limit of downed buildings in the town because he himself knows that the game is not balanced. Personally I don't think this is enough in itself, because a small squadron still can't kill a town by itself efficiently anymore because it is too spread out. The point is, HiTech knows that the new town that he implemented has caused balancing issues and the complaints are warranted.
I missed this. Where did HiTech address this?
wrongway
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I still don't see winnning big maps having anything to do with any recent changes. I contend that big maps were always as hard to reset as they are now.
Got a chart that shows a significat difference in that?
wrongway
Read Lucshes quote on the top of page 6 of this thread.
I can save ya a trip by telling you that he says that since the introduction of the new towns and their accompanying game "improvements", base takes have been cut in half.
Not sure about you, but I believe him.
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I still don't see winnning big maps having anything to do with any recent changes. I contend that big maps were always as hard to reset as they are now.
Got a chart that shows a significat difference in that?
There were three steps that changed the rate of resets. The first one was long ago by introducing the new winning conditions (40% of both enemy coutnries)
The recent changes had significant impact. New town size & distribution made capturing bases harder, and effectively halved the rate of captures (Yes, I could make a chart but it's not so complex that a visualization is necessary... or is it? ;) )
And now the last step the new arena setup: the peak arena maps are only on for 9 hours a day. Much less time to work on.
All factors together: You need more bases to get a reset, but it's much harder to capture each base and you have much less time to do that. So we went from very frequent resets (up to more than once per day) to almost no resets
I missed this. Where did HiTech address this?
As far as I know he mentioned only cities & factories, not town buildings: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,298324.msg3813790.html#msg3813790
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The issues with the NOE came about when they were used as the ONLY mission other than the horde.
To me spotting an NOE was difficult. Why? because I don't sit in the tower hunting for abnormalities happening in the middle of no where. By the time I saw a base flashing, or someone yelled for help I'd up at the base and get vulched. Next step up at a base farther back get halfway to the base and they would capture it. Fly the rest of the way there and the base was abandoned. Had I come with a friend in a goon we could have taken them back. No fight at all.
We couldn't defend due to high numbers of vulchers, and then they don't bother to defend because they have jumped to the other side of the map looking for another quite out of the way place to do it again. So the choices I have are either join the horde, or chase the NOE dweebs. Not fun at all. Of course I could start my own NOE mini horde and maybe pick up a vulch or two if Im lucky, again, NO FIGHTS!
The changes made are NOT that drastic, the problem is everyone is set in there ways of doing things and now those things have changed. I was happy flying my hog in the old days, then they added the 38 and those suckers shot me out of the sky all the time. I learned the 38. Picking in Furballs in my 38 was fun in the old days, we had some really big ones, then someone added the 262. Chasing down B17 over the HQ in my 262 used to be fun then they added the 163.
The game changes, get over it!. It's Hitechs play ground and he is going to do what is best for HIS business. What anyone of us say/beg/cry/whine about is nothing more than a passing interest to him unless it fits into his business plan.
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Uhmm.. you sure you didn't post this in the wrong thread?
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The issues with the NOE came about when they were used as the ONLY mission other than the horde.
Hang-on. I'm trying to parse that.
1. I can attack with smaller numbers using stealth and suprise.
2. I can attack with overwhelming numbers regardless of being detected.
Uhhmmm what is the 3rd choice you recomend?
Attacking with insufficient numbers and plenty of warning?
:neener:,
Wab
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This is an excellent analysis of a 3000 player survey result and their motivations. In the final analysis we need all of us to make this game an interesting place.
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001298.php?page=1
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001304.php?page=1
Thats very interesting. I read it quickly, but will look at it further this weekend.
I'll trade ya.
Check this out(probalby will get cut off):
http://www.gamasutra.com/db_area/images/feature/3738/table4_full.png (http://www.gamasutra.com/db_area/images/feature/3738/table4_full.png)
(http://www.gamasutra.com/db_area/images/feature/3738/table4_full.png)
Here is the article that explains what you are looking at:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3738/emotion_engineering_a_scientific_.php (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3738/emotion_engineering_a_scientific_.php)
I was blown away once I wrapped my head around how to read that matrix.
Regards,
Wab
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nevermind. It's pointless.
Not pointless. Never suggested you were 'whining' btw Lusche. Your input is valuable in this stuff.
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There were three steps that changed the rate of resets. The first one was long ago by introducing the new winning conditions (40% of both enemy coutnries)
The recent changes had significant impact. New town size & distribution made capturing bases harder, and effectively halved the rate of captures (Yes, I could make a chart but it's not so complex that a visualization is necessary... or is it? ;) )
And now the last step the new arena setup: the peak arena maps are only on for 9 hours a day. Much less time to work on.
All factors together: You need more bases to get a reset, but it's much harder to capture each base and you have much less time to do that. So we went from very frequent resets (up to more than once per day) to almost no resets
So this still comes down to folks not being able to hit the reset bar as fast as they used to? So it's not the act of a capture that's the issue, but the speed?
This goes back to Betty's question. Wouldn't the participation in the teamwork, and the battle to take a more difficult objective against defenders provide more satisfaction then just getting through the capture faster? Or is it the sight of the base take on 200 coming across and the 'we've won the war' bit when the map resets that is more important?
I'm asking that seriously as I really don't understand it. Why is switching the map so important? Why is the speed in which it happens so important?
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Its not so much the speed of winning the war that bothers me as the fact that in the 5 or 6 months Ive been back I havent seen it happen ONCE... nor have I heard of it happening.
Betty.. i have to say something about this... "and personally i could care less if people are taking bases, just as long as their not TT bases then its all good"
So its ok to capture anything BUT TT bases?? Next thing somebody will say we cant take ports because then they wouldnt be able to play admiral, then someone else will say we cant take airfields cos they wanna furball. I would never consider telling anyone that they cant take this base or that base because everybody has the right to play the game the way they want, same as it is for me. So if taking that TT base would mean winning the war, darned right I'm gonna try to take it.
If its well defended then even better. IMO the object of the game is to defeat the enemy by land air and sea ( seems ive heard that whole land air sea thing before...oh yeah , it was to do with REAL wars , fancy that) and win the victory for your country.. Or is this not a WWII sim??
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So this still comes down to folks not being able to hit the reset bar as fast as they used to? So it's not the act of a capture that's the issue, but the speed?
This goes back to Betty's question. Wouldn't the participation in the teamwork, and the battle to take a more difficult objective against defenders provide more satisfaction then just getting through the capture faster? Or is it the sight of the base take on 200 coming across and the 'we've won the war' bit when the map resets that is more important?
I'm asking that seriously as I really don't understand it. Why is switching the map so important? Why is the speed in which it happens so important?
You do not understand it, because it's not your playing style. The war means nothing to you. And that's ok, the game should never evolve into something where you have to care about that war thing at all. I surely would whine then! :D Just for the record, I haven't got any reset perks this year at all, mostly because I personally do care only a tad more than you ;)
Why the war is.. uhm.. important... to many, I had explained earlier:
The war game (and thus capturing bases, as for now it's the only way to win this war) is giving a lot of players a goal, something to fight for, it's keeping particularly those unwashed masses interested in the game that would otherwise quickly burn out, pure cannon fodder for a tiny ACM "elite"as they are.
And I'm afraid we can either accept that there are many players for whom flying a P-38 alone is not enough to keep them interested for long... or we can stay a ever shrinking group of hardcore enthusiasts.
And when you give them a goal, you should make sure that it's neither too easy, nor too difficult. No doubt that's hard to define at which point it's getting "too easy" or "too hard".
It's just my personal opinion that it once was way too easy (both the act of capturing a base as well as winning the war), but it's now "too hard" as a reset is hardly possible due to the reasons I stated one post earlier.
In that context might add that I found every single change itself very reasonable. It's the combination that has some side effect. And I'm not sure yet what my proposal would be. I actually would not like to see bases being captured much easier than it's the case now. I'm quite happy with the new towns. I thought I had some idea yesterday, but I noticed after some thinking that it sucked. :lol
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Help me out here Krazey. are you the guys that despite there being a hundred other fields to take, works on taking tank town fields? Are you the guys that despite there being a hundred other fields to take, kills the FH's at the only even dar bar fight on the map?
BTW this is not a WW2 sim. We are not fighting WW2 here. Think about the whines if we were doing that!
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Hang-on. I'm trying to parse that.
1. I can attack with smaller numbers using stealth and suprise.
2. I can attack with overwhelming numbers regardless of being detected.
Uhhmmm what is the 3rd choice you recomend?
Attacking with insufficient numbers and plenty of warning?
:neener:,
Wab
The third choice is to use your brain and make a plan and then execute it. I know for some of you that this is really hard to understand...maybe Lusche would be kind enough to put it in to a chart for us.
Heres a plan I have in my head, haven't spent the time to run out the timings and such but here we go...
2 sets of buffs up from a base NW and one sector away from final target, at the same time another 2 groups up from a base SE a sector back. Buffs climb out heading East and West. Once they hit 5k 5 fighters lift, all heavy with either rockets or 500 lbs, not both (easier to dump). 2 fighter head for the NW group of buffs, 2 for the SE group, meeting up at about 10k as escort/clean up. They turn into target at 10-12k from the north and south at about the same time from 25 miles out. 5th fighter runs in hard at 5-7k and takes out dar of target base and at least one other base. Buffs carpet bomb the town, with 4 sets hitting at around the same time town would be close to flat with even a minor amount of skill. Buffs roll out and head of in the same direction, maybe toward other base that had dar hit as a decoy. Fighter clean up any buildings left up and cap. Goons could run with buffs, or NOE from a couple directions, or M3's or jeeps could run in troops depending on target field.
This plan uses 10-11 guys. Will it capture the base every time? I don't think so, but it WILL work some of the time. It uses the dar from a number of sectors for the launch to help confuse/mask the target. The buffs are at alt so they are some what protected, and should hit with a good percentage. Having a couple of goons and or M3's help get the troops in. It does however take time to climb to alt, co-ordinate way-points to have the fighters hook up with the buffs, needs the dar killer to hit a number of dar with out dieing, buffs pilots that can use our most difficult "lazer" bomb sites and hit what they are aiming at.
The point is the "game has become too hard" and a number of players are crying because they can't cope. Suck it up!
The fighter guys are never going to convince the land capture guys that the reason for the game is combat. Mainly because the land grabbers that cry the most are those players that got hooked into doing everything the easy way and don't want to take the time to learn how to do it any other way. The only thing they played for was the quick snatch and grab. Will its gone, suck it up.
The land capture people are never going to convince the fighter guys that the war is important. It's only important to the fighter guys so that they have targets to shoot down. Some of us like to have those targets fight back, but most are just after a quick kill and move on to the next. If the land capture people take their ball and go home instead of adapting, the targets will dry up.
These never ending arguments back and forth accomplish nothing. Hitech is going to do what is best for his business. The rest of us might as well just suck it up and take it. The other choice is to go play WoW or something. Suggest away, but again, Hitech will do what HE thinks best. People piss and moan when they take away their favorite plane (ENY), people piss and moan when the maps don't change quick enough, people piss and moan because they can't hide from the fights, and people piss and moan because they can't run their favorite parnold bellybutton mission. Your a bunch or namby pambies! Suck it up !
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You do not understand it, because it's not your playing style. The war means nothing to you. And that's ok, the game should never evolve into something where you have to care about that war thing at all. I surely would whine then! :D Just for the record, I haven't got any reset perks this year at all, mostly because I personally do care only a tad more than you ;)
Why the war is.. uhm.. important... to many, I had explained earlier:
And I'm afraid we can either accept that there are many players for whom flying a P-38 alone is not enough to keep them interested for long... or we can stay a ever shrinking group of hardcore enthusiasts.
And when you give them a goal, you should make sure that it's neither too easy, nor too difficult. No doubt that's hard to define at which point it's getting "too easy" or "too hard".
It's just my personal opinion that it once was way too easy (both the act of capturing a base as well as winning the war), but it's now "too hard" as a reset is hardly possible due to the reasons I stated one post earlier.
In that context might add that I found every single change itself very reasonable. It's the combination that has some side effect. And I'm not sure yet what my proposal would be. I actually would not like to see bases being captured much easier than it's the case now. I'm quite happy with the new towns. I thought I had some idea yesterday, but I noticed after some thinking that it sucked. :lol
What this reminds me of is the old Airwarrior set up of Relaxed Realism, vs Full Realism. Everyone started in RR and it always had the most people in it. It was easier to succeed as it was in essence simplified so that doing well happened faster. Folks who stuck around long enough moved on to Full Real where the game was harder and success tougher to come by.
I'm not suggesting that for AH, but it seems like that's what is essentially being described.
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What this reminds me of is the old Airwarrior set up of Relaxed Realism, vs Full Realism. Everyone started in RR and it always had the most people in it. It was easier to succeed as it was in essence simplified so that doing well happened faster. Folks who stuck around long enough moved on to Full Real where the game was harder and success tougher to come by.
I'm not suggesting that for AH, but it seems like that's what is essentially being described.
Uhm.. you lost me.. :headscratch:
What has such a goal to do with relaxed vs full realism, or with easy vs difficult?
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As far as I know he mentioned only cities & factories, not town buildings: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,298324.msg3813790.html#msg3813790
Whoops, my mistake, i misread his response. Towns were being discussed I guess i read what i wanted to read.
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There were three steps that changed the rate of resets. The first one was long ago by introducing the new winning conditions (40% of both enemy coutnries)
The recent changes had significant impact. New town size & distribution made capturing bases harder, and effectively halved the rate of captures (Yes, I could make a chart but it's not so complex that a visualization is necessary... or is it? ;) )
And now the last step the new arena setup: the peak arena maps are only on for 9 hours a day. Much less time to work on.
All factors together: You need more bases to get a reset, but it's much harder to capture each base and you have much less time to do that. So we went from very frequent resets (up to more than once per day) to almost no resets
As far as I know he mentioned only cities & factories, not town buildings: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,298324.msg3813790.html#msg3813790
Did you or any others pick up any patterns in play during the midst of the changes?
Radar settings extended: Reaction :cry :cry "we cant bases" then came the countless threads on how to exploit it.
Town layout: Reaction: :cry :cry :cry " Its too hard to take them down and we cant see them when they are destroyed". Then came the high alt bombers to come sweep the hangars so they have enough time to take it down.
Arena setup: Reaction: :cry :cry "we dont have enough time to reset the maps". Given that this just started last week, Im sure in the near future they will adapt squad nights to fit the bill on this schedule to they can win maps.
Subscriptions down? Perhaps..but do you honestly think that a guy joining the game today is really going to notice these changes?
The WAR can still be won, its not impossible nor too hard to achieve if you are a bit smarter and cordinated in your strat play and that calls that you do play defense too to acheive your goal
I like the changes. At least now I have a choice to engage what I want to engage rather than having to have my clipboard map up searching for that ever clever mission thats roaming the map.
Once things settle down and people get used to the changes, give it time and we will still end up taking one step back to deal with it.
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edit above
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Read my post again I'm begging you. Did I not say that IF taking a TT base would mean winning the war THEN i'd take it? If taking another base would have the same result then I'll take that base, but what on earth gives ANYONE the right to tell anyone else " You cant take this base"?
As I said we ALL play this game our own way, including msyelf and it is our right to do so ( so long as we aint cheating that is).
Not a WWII sim? oh no ... just " the internets premier WW1 and WWii combat experience " according to the games own front page. So ok your right we arent fighting WWII , we are simulating the feel of fighting in those wars. Oh wait... that makes it a sim doesnt it...
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Perhaps..but do you honestly think that a guy joining the game today is really going to notice these changes?
Absolutely not. He will take the game at what it is. Or he will not. But to simplify it: A pure furballing game (yes I'm exaggerating again!) will appeal to fewer players, regardless if it had been that way before or not.
In the words of the great philosopher R.Palmer
"It takes every kind of people
To make what life's about
Every kind of people
To make the world go 'round" ;)
And yes, you can provide a reachable goal without resorting to "making the game ezy mode" dumbing everything down or provide means of avoding every combat. NOE'S have already been greatly reduced. Offpeak map is a small one, with much less opportunity for sneaks, and so on.
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Uhm.. you lost me.. :headscratch:
What has such a goal to do with relaxed vs full realism, or with easy vs difficult?
The balance seems to include making the game playable fast enough and with the ability for the newer folks coming in to feel some success sooner then later. That was the RR arenas in Airwarrior. Folks learned the game, got better, felt some success. The old heads, die hard enthusiasts or however you want to describe the vets eventually died out or moved on to the FR arena where the learning curve was steeper and the gameplay harder.
Right now in AH those groups are mixed with the older die hards mixed in with the newbies. It just made me wonder how many of the old hands would go to a more challenging arena, and if the new folks would find happiness in a less challenging arena where they could develop their skills.
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Read my post again I'm begging you. Did I not say that IF taking a TT base would mean winning the war THEN i'd take it? If taking another base would have the same result then I'll take that base, but what on earth gives ANYONE the right to tell anyone else " You cant take this base"?
As I said we ALL play this game our own way, including msyelf and it is our right to do so ( so long as we aint cheating that is).
Not a WWII sim? oh no ... just " the internets premier WW1 and WWii combat experience " according to the games own front page. So ok your right we arent fighting WWII , we are simulating the feel of fighting in those wars. Oh wait... that makes it a sim doesnt it...
We're flying cartoon WW2 airplanes. We aren't simulating WW2. 'Winning the war' aka resetting the map, is just one part of the game that people can choose to play. We all play the game our own way. I'd include with that, that I'd hope people would have some consideration for the other people playing the game as well. We do have an impact on how other folks enjoy the game. Because this isn't war, keeping that in mind isn't asking too much in my opinion.
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The balance seems to include making the game playable fast enough and with the ability for the newer folks coming in to feel some success sooner then later. That was the RR arenas in Airwarrior. Folks learned the game, got better, felt some success. The old heads, die hard enthusiasts or however you want to describe the vets eventually died out or moved on to the FR arena where the learning curve was steeper and the gameplay harder.
Right now in AH those groups are mixed with the older die hards mixed in with the newbies. It just made me wonder how many of the old hands would go to a more challenging arena, and if the new folks would find happiness in a less challenging arena where they could develop their skills.
Am I right that less challenging was mostly due to different flight settings or flight models and so on?
If yes, I think no one here as anything like that in mind. To me, that would be truly a horrible idea.
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Am I right that less challenging was mostly due to different flight settings or flight models and so on?
If yes, I think no one here as anything like that in mind. To me, that would be truly a horrible idea.
Yep. And that's not what I'm suggesting. What I'm reading is that there is a need to keep the newer folks feeling some success and fueling their desire to keep involved in the game via this success. Those of us who have been around forever sometimes have a hard time with this having managed to enjoy the game throughout the changes. It often sounds like the cry is to make it easier to play.
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So if those guys were going on a NOE mission to a base and no one ups to defend it, are they supposed to turn around or abort the mission?
Alot of bases were left "undefended" because no one wanted to defend them.
And don't hand me that "they were too hard to detect" crap. No they weren't.
There are tons of bases on the map--if some guys decide to take some off the beaten track base, who cares?? How does that affect your furball?
If you would be so kind, please explain what an undefended base looks like? In all these years and all these missions I have never seen one.
For missions, all I see are uppers and gv's pouring out of the vh like cockroaches as if someone just kicked a garbage can...usually within :30 seconds of the base/town blinking.
Unless they just are always sittin' there waiting 24/7 on the off chance we might attack?
"Undefended" bases my ( | )
ROX
>>>>>PS and BTW: I agree 150% with your quoted comment
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Absolutely not. He will take the game at what it is. Or he will not. But to simplify it: A pure furballing game (yes I'm exaggerating again!) will appeal to fewer players, regardless if it had been that way before or not.
In the words of the great philosopher R.Palmer
"It takes every kind of people
To make what life's about
Every kind of people
To make the world go 'round" ;)
And yes, you can provide a reachable goal without resorting to "making the game ezy mode" dumbing everything down or provide means of avoding every combat. NOE'S have already been greatly reduced. Offpeak map is a small one, with much less opportunity for sneaks, and so on.
As I agree that this game would get stale real fast if we didnt have the war aspect in it. Fact is still have it and always will. Just because we change it doesnt mean we cant now or ever adapt to it. Sure we get whines when asked to leave our comfort zone, but fact is that most people end up appreciating the change in the long run. On the other hand, there are people that are just too damn stubborn to change anything at all and they watch the world go by. I say leave it be, if people quit because they want a dumbed down game..then so be it. Its a great game that Ive enjoyed the years and certainly wouldnt go as far to quit for such a feable reason
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Am I right that less challenging was mostly due to different flight settings or flight models and so on?
If yes, I think no one here as anything like that in mind. To me, that would be truly a horrible idea.
Had a moment of inspiration or indigestion depending on your perspective :)
Set up the two LW arenas. Same map rotation in each with mainly if not only small maps. One is labeled Late war Old. The other Late war New. Put New on top. Old has the old settings, New has the current settings.
Open the doors, see what happens. Would folks go to New because it's on top and because it says New? Would people figure out that Old has the settings that allow for rapid resets?
Would a follow up Lusche chart show that the Old arena was reset twice as fast as New? Would the numbers in New remain higher because it's on top? The pie charts are endless? :)
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Yep. And that's not what I'm suggesting. What I'm reading is that there is a need to keep the newer folks feeling some success and fueling their desire to keep involved in the game via this success. Those of us who have been around forever sometimes have a hard time with this having managed to enjoy the game throughout the changes. It often sounds like the cry is to make it easier to play.
The only thing I want to be (somewhat!) easier is in regard to winning the war. I'm not sure yet by what means, but a won war in the LW maybe once a month wouldn't hurt, but could help keeping a lot of players interested or hooked.
I know it sucks, you can blame society, media, the youth, politics or whatever for it... but too few players have such a burning interest for air combat that they will endure being shot down again and again, having a k/d of 0.1 or less for many months or years. The "war" is just one of several carrots which they can nibble while getting better.
I have seen many basegrabbers transforming into furballers in my years here (unfortunately, more than a few ended up being zealots... a frequent habit of convertites)
People like you and me that have read countless books on that topic for years or decades before touching the joystick for the first time are getting rarer.
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I'm asking that seriously as I really don't understand it. Why is switching the map so important? Why is the speed in which it happens so important?
Maybe it's because of the game we originally started with that we have these views. The section I quoted below shows why those of us old AW DOS and AW4W players just don't see the other side's point and probably why they don't see ours as well.
This goes back to Betty's question. Wouldn't the participation in the teamwork, and the battle to take a more difficult objective against defenders provide more satisfaction then just getting through the capture faster? Or is it the sight of the base take on 200 coming across and the 'we've won the war' bit when the map resets that is more important?
The above part I quoted is what made the battles in AW such fun. It was the fight to destroy or defend the base or factories that made AW such a blast, with large scale air battles lasting for hours. I still fondly remember a battle to take out the Azland Spitfire factory that lasted over 3 hours.
To me, it seems that some players are more satisfied with capturing a base to reset the map as quickly as possible than with fighting. When I mean "fighting" I am not talking about "furballing", I am talking about the fight associated with taking a base which seems that some players like to avoid in order to be able to capture a base quickly.
That's why I'm with Dan and feel that most of those complaining are doing so because they now feel that they can't take a base as fast as they could in the past and they now have to actually face the prospect of getting into a fight, possibly a long and protracted one to capture a base. You guys can look at squadrons like the vGuys, they will only attack undefended bases with a mass hord and as soon as opposition ups in force to defend the base, the vGuys leave and look for the next undefended base. Where is the fun in that?
ack-ack
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Its not so much the speed of winning the war that bothers me as the fact that in the 5 or 6 months Ive been back I havent seen it happen ONCE... nor have I heard of it happening.
You don't play very much it seems. The maps have been reset many, many, many times in the time you claim.
Or is this not a WWII sim??
No it's not.
ack-ack
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Had a moment of inspiration or indigestion depending on your perspective :)
Set up the two LW arenas. Same map rotation in each with mainly if not only small maps. One is labeled Late war Old. The other Late war New. Put New on top. Old has the old settings, New has the current settings.
Open the doors, see what happens. Would folks go to New because it's on top and because it says New? Would people figure out that Old has the settings that allow for rapid resets?
Would a follow up Lusche chart show that the Old arena was reset twice as fast as New? Would the numbers in New remain higher because it's on top? The pie charts are endless? :)
hehe interesting experiment, endless possibilities for piecharts (unfortunately the effort to track # of captures & resets is horrible)
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I'm talking about the fight associated with taking a base which seems that some players like to avoid in order to be able to capture a base quickly.
That's why I'm with Dan and feel that most of those complaining are doing so because they now feel that they can't take a base as fast as they could in the past and they now have to actually face the prospect of getting into a fight, possibly a long and protracted one to capture a base. You guys can look at squadrons like the vGuys, they will only attack undefended bases with a mass hord and as soon as opposition ups in force to defend the base, the vGuys leave and look for the next undefended base. Where is the fun in that?
ack-ack
And that's why I personally do not want to go back to easier to capture bases. I'm thinking about different adjustments that could increase the rate of resets, but not by making individual captures effortless. I do want people to fight. I do want to fight them. As mentioned before, I approved (not that anybody would care) many changes in the past that made grbbing less easy... the increase of acks, the bigger and less clearly laid out towns and so on.
The vguys... I like them. I jump from base to base, trying to wreck their attempts. Easy targets for the most part, fits my lame lone wolf style ;)
But enough. Must fly again. Killing cartoon planes more important than BBS argument :joystick:
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Maybe it's because of the game we originally started with that we have these views.
...
The above part I quoted is what made the battles in AW such fun. It was the fight to destroy or defend the base or factories that made AW such a blast, with large scale air battles lasting for hours. I still fondly remember a battle to take out the Azland Spitfire factory that lasted over 3 hours.
Is that a completely fair comparison?
Fighting a 3 hour battle to capture one of 120 bases you’re going to have to capture would have some emotional impact admittedly.
But is it really the same as fighting a 3 hour battle to deny your enemy access to their most popular aircraft?
I think the latter is a greater reward for the effort expended.
Wab
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Not trying to hijack here, but I think what this game needs is a system that encourages people to put themselves at a disadvantage and get rewarded ONLY if they overcome it.
Everyone wants to dictate the fight. Everyone wants to be higher, have the #s advantage or the element of surprise. Fact is its the only way to get a quick adrenaline rush so why not NOE, or horde or just hang out at 25k to pick?
Imagine if the text bar read: "XXX killed 4 vulchers" or "XXX survived a 4vs1". Probably a nightmare to code, but imagine the possabilities.
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The thing I don't get is that the most repetitive crap on earth is to be found in games like WOW ( I know nothing about AION but from the website it looks to be "about the same" to my admittedly less than expert eye) . Excluding the burnout factor you are alluding to, what I just don't get is how much everyone loves the repetitive nature of the game play in WOW to the tune of 100's of thousands of subscribers and 10's of thousands of hours of repetitive leveling up, yet here (where there's so many more options for game play) it's considered to be a game fault?
<S>
I guess I would ask you to explain what is NOT repetitive about this game??? Sure every encounter has its own flavor but in general if all you do is DA type behavior is that not repetitive as well???
What I enjoy is "doing something" for a purpose....even thought i am logging 10 hours at a time in Aion, I am seeing the results by leveling up and getting better and better equipment. I can also start PvP (player vs Player) at higher levels which unlocks another side of the game...i can choose to solo quest OR join a group to acheive a different type of quest OR develop crafting skill etc OR fight other players....really the possibilities are endless and the graphics knock you off your feet....
Now don't get me wrong i know that a ww2 flight sim can't do all this....but what is the purpose of a squad anymore??? I log on to run squad night and find 90% of what we used to be able to do is gone....instead we can horde or defend against a horde...i dont even watch the map anymore because noone is readily noe'ing a base with a megatown with mega-ack....we spend more time sitting inthe tower catching up on personal chit-chat and being frustrated. Alot of the guys are hoping the IL-2 sim....whatever it is....will be good enough so we can move over there....I'm not 100% sure what it is but they seem anxious for it to come out....as you can check my stats i play about 2 hours a week on squadnight right now....
The bottom line is what you said...you may not "get it" but hundreds of thousands of folks play WoW, EQ2 and Aionm while we struggle to keep our numbers stable.....and AW was one of the first true online games! Its too bad really....
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Is that a completely fair comparison?
Fighting a 3 hour battle to capture one of 120 bases you’re going to have to capture would have some emotional impact admittedly.
But is it really the same as fighting a 3 hour battle to deny your enemy access to their most popular aircraft?
I think the latter is a greater reward for the effort expended.
Wab
Yes, it is a fair comparison because the battles that took place to protect the factories didn't only happen when the factories were the target. It was more common to have the same size scope battles for the regular bases and even more so for the Big Lake N bases. The battles in Valley of Dweebs would last all day long just trying to shut down either of the VOD bases.
ack-ack
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I think some are getting caught up in extremes. I am with Grizz (if I have followed the discussion correctly) in that the game needs balance. I also agree with one or two portions of what Betty has posted. The game is much more entertaining and satisfying to fight the enemy and win the field (by field I don't mean the win to vulch).
I like to think I am a blend of the perspectives. I want to come over to YOUR base and FIGHT YOU for it. When I win, I deserve to take your land. When I lose you deserve to keep your land, or better yet, you can counter attack and now take MY land. Admittedly rolling a base that no one wants to defend is about as exciting as watching paint dry. In my opinion, the game IS about the fight. But I also admit that I want to 'win a trophy' (i.e. your base) after I fight and beat you.
The problem is NOT that the town is too hard. It is that the town has become so large and spread out that the only reasonable way to put it all down (to effect the take after the fight) is to roll in such numbers that it is inevitable that the 'horde' becomes a vulch. AND THAT TOO is about as fun as watching paint dry. I guess what I am trying to explain is that the size, layout, and defense (ack) dictates the size of the force that is needed to put the town in a capture-able position. Too much town requires such a large force that a horde ensues. Too little town allows for 'sneaks' and the base is captured before a single defender even realizes the base is lost. In my opinion, both scenarios suck (to put in Politically correct terms).
So the balance that Grizz (as I read it) is so artfully trying to explain, is that the ability to capture land must be balanced so that there will be 10 different fights of 10 people rather than 1 fight of 100 people (or 100 fights of 1 person. LOL)
I truly believe that there can be a balance and that it is NOT that 'Winz the Warz' is best or that 'furballz' is best. It is that the GAME is best, and the best way to promote the continued GAME is balancing to promote good fights all over the map rather than a single fight (or lack thereof) rolling in one direction or another.
:cheers:
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he'll be back in 2 weeks
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TRALFZ......You are wrong, not everyone wants to fight from the advantage, not everyone wants to fight in the hourd......I for one go out of my way to fight unsurmountable odds, I always attack when I am at the disadvantage, when there are more then a couple green guys around me I go elsewhere, and I know I am not the only one to play like this, I truly dont care about the war, scores, seeing my name in lights, a high k/d %, any of that, I just love the fact that I get a chance to pretend to be a cartoon WW2 pilot.....and of course the adrenaline rush that comes along with fighting multi cons.....ive said before I aint winning unless im dieing......:-)
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TRALFZ......You are wrong, not everyone wants to fight from the advantage, not everyone wants to fight in the hourd......I for one go out of my way to fight unsurmountable odds, I always attack when I am at the disadvantage, when there are more then a couple green guys around me I go elsewhere, and I know I am not the only one to play like this, I truly dont care about the war, scores, seeing my name in lights, a high k/d %, any of that, I just love the fact that I get a chance to pretend to be a cartoon WW2 pilot.....and of course the adrenaline rush that comes along with fighting multi cons.....ive said before I aint winning unless im dieing......:-)
I get this part :)
I had Changeup say to me the other night, "You really do want to go in low in that 38G don't you?" We were headed towards a sea of red at the time :)
Falc, I get what you are saying. At the same time for me the squad is a bunch of like minded folks who enjoy doing similar things. Last night for the last run of the night, Soulyss, Cactus and I went out in P39s on a sweep into an area where we knew the cons would be more and higher. It was purely for fun and to feed the 5th AF 39 history fascination we all seem to have. Soulyss posted a great AAR of his and cactus's P39 run in the AvA today in 1942 New Guinea style.
Running 25s on the deck to try and take guns to the fleet is much the same. It's "Bismarck Sea" 1943. It all depends on what you enjoy as a squad.
A bunch of 38s in green trim out on the prowl looking for fight is most often great fun.
One of the reasons I want the Beaufighter is for the MA. It's a low level ground attack bird. Guess what I imagine myself doing with it? :)
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LOL qbert..nice troll..no one could be that big of a sissy..if you are..go to wow..wear tights and be a fairy.
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I get this part :)
I had Changeup say to me the other night, "You really do want to go in low in that 38G don't you?" We were headed towards a sea of red at the time :)
Falc, I get what you are saying. At the same time for me the squad is a bunch of like minded folks who enjoy doing similar things. Last night for the last run of the night, Soulyss, Cactus and I went out in P39s on a sweep into an area where we knew the cons would be more and higher. It was purely for fun and to feed the 5th AF 39 history fascination we all seem to have. Soulyss posted a great AAR of his and cactus's P39 run in the AvA today in 1942 New Guinea style.
Running 25s on the deck to try and take guns to the fleet is much the same. It's "Bismarck Sea" 1943. It all depends on what you enjoy as a squad.
A bunch of 38s in green trim out on the prowl looking for fight is most often great fun.
One of the reasons I want the Beaufighter is for the MA. It's a low level ground attack bird. Guess what I imagine myself doing with it? :)
Sitting at 30k trying to down a 262?
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Sitting at 30k trying to down a 262?
:headscratch:
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The above part I quoted is what made the battles in AW such fun. It was the fight to destroy or defend the base or factories that made AW such a blast, with large scale air battles lasting for hours. I still fondly remember a battle to take out the Azland Spitfire factory that lasted over 3 hours.
ack-ack
May be a wall of text. But I encourage all to read it through as it provides a possible solution that may be acceptable to the largest segment
I remember fondly those days as well. Did destroying those spit factories have anything to do with winning the war as it was perceived back then?
No, right?
I'd like to move away from map resets for a moment. The reason being is it seems to me. Or has at least been my experience that being present to reset a map is due largely to luck then anything else. Think of all the hours you (anyone) are on. How often do you (anyone) really see a map reset?
That being said. I'd like to go back and revisit what has been mentioned earlier about Strat, What Ack Ack said in the portion I quoted, And the first line in this post.
The strat portion of the game is where IMO it is the most lax. Its the largest portion of the game that for lack of a better term is broken.
Q -Why were hitting the spit factories and defense of those factories so popular?
A- Because they had a direct effect on the game.
But they didnt cripple the game. They never had any lasting effect on the outcome of the night. But they were important enough to bother trying to defend.
We have wonderful beautifully rendered strat targets now. But how often do people really try to bomb them? And just how many really bother to defend them?
Few. Why? the answers are simple and obvious. On the attacking side While you can rack up points bombing them. They dont accomplish anything other then garner perks and perhaps ranks. But on a meaningful level they have next to no effect on anything.
From a defensive standpoint. You dont see many upping to defend against this because again. They have no meaningful effect on anything.
So why bother? And thats why you dont see very many strat missions.
If you want to have an effect on the game. Your actually better off flying to and dropping the hangars at a feild and "ruining a furball"
As I mentioned earlier. the reasons why the fights over the spit factories were so popular is because they had a direct and immediate although relatively short lived effect on the game itself. Therfore they were important enough to make hitting them AND defending them worthwhile.
The strat targets here have been dummied down so much that they have no real effect on the game. Again there is no compelling reason to hit or defend them. People want not only things to do. But want to have a reason for things to do. They want to have an impact. Right now strat targets provide neither.
Possible solution to consider.
Return to the "zone" system with some tweaks. Keep these wonderfully designed strat targets. but give the strat targes some meaning. And assign 1 strat target of differing types to each base in the "zone"
Examples of strat targets
Spit Factory
Ammo Factory
Heavy Bomber factory
Railway/resupply Depot.
Each field would have 1 factory assigned to it within a zone Possibly placed somewhere near the town at a point evenly spaced between the field and Gv spawn points (Gives the GVers something else to fight in and over) And would also make sense aesthetically and logically because the fictitious townspeople would supply labor to the factories and the military base would provide for the defence of both. Pretty meaningless but would add to the immersion depth but again. would provide for another battlefeild for the GVs to fight in
Hitting the strat targets should eliminate or reduce in stages the ability of all bases within that zone to conduct operations of that given type.
Examples.
Destroying a spit factory would mean no spits would be able to up from any base within that zone. Same thing with the heavy bomber factories.
Ammo factories can be set to effect the ordinance available by degree of destruction. Totally destroyed ammo factory would mean only the lightest of bombs or rockets would be available within that zone. while a moderately destroyed ammo factory would only effect the heaviest of ord.
Railway/resupply Depots (trains & trucks) would reduce the amount of trains and/or resupply trucks that would be available to Resupply bases and factories. Possibly located at the rearmost "primary zone base"
To prevent milkrunning and abuse of this by the hordes. These factories and supply routes should always be property of the native country and can only be rebuilt by that country until such a time that all bases within a zone are captured. At which point they revert to being the property of the attacking country
Long story short. Lets say Horde A comes in an obliterates the ammo factory connected to the field they are attacking. Then they capture that base. Wonderful. Good for that horde. BUT in obliterating that ammo factory also means they too cannot up heavy ords from that feild until such a time as that factory regenerates.
also attacking that factory from that newly captured base will have the same adverse effects on that feild as it does to the native country untill such a point where all the bases in that zone are captured.
In this way it would be much to the attacking countries benifit to try to capture bases within a zone with the factories more or less intact
Yet it still provides enough reason to attack these strat targets as well as enough reason to defend them.
Making These strats zone oriented means that only those bases within a particular zone are effected. Meaning you can still up your uber spit16.Or up with 1K bombs Just not from that zone.
And of course we could always expand o this to have more of a national effect by having even more major factories (Ball Bearings) deep within a country like we have HQ that would effect maybe all late war "uber" rides spits,P51's La7's 190D's Late war tanks etc
Anyone willing to take that long to fly that deep and actually make it. Deserves to have a greater impact. And anyone willing to let them fly that deep unscathed. Deserves whatever they get stuck with.
This IMO has several benefits. It provides real reason to attack strats which simple do not exist now. real reason to defend them which also doesn't exist now. Yet it doesn't seriously effect the furball crowd, nor unduly reward the hordes.
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The bottom line is what you said...you may not "get it" but hundreds of thousands of folks play WoW, EQ2 and Aionm while we struggle to keep our numbers stable.....and AW was one of the first true online games! Its too bad really....
WoW and EQ2 are letting people play for free now. EQ numbers were going down ten years ago while I was playing.
I guess alot aren't "getting it" there either.
wrongway
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but too few players have such a burning interest for air combat that they will endure being shot down again and again, having a k/d of 0.1 or less for many months or years. The "war" is just one of several carrots which they can nibble while getting better.
<SNIP>
People like you and me that have read countless books on that topic for years or decades before touching the joystick for the first time are getting rarer.
Lusche nailed it... in the old days, when AirWarrior were around, it was literally the only decent online game unless you wanted to play on MUDs with anscii text format. Now, games like Aces High needs to compete with other online games that have the carrot and stick routine down to a science. Not to mention, a growing number of possible players on Aces High don't have PCs at all, but are using a Wii/Playstation/XBox.
First off, Aces High needs a fun time sink to keep players interested while they improve. Perks could be the factor here, but after 200 perk points any further perk gains are a waste of time. The Combat Arena with a story line could of been the time sink, but HTC aren't developing it anymore.
New players, unless they grew up on aviation stories or movies, would rather enjoy the camaraderie from joining a big squad (not to mention safety). In the past, these squads (small and large) would use their teamwork to take a base, either by hording it or NOEing it. They can't NOE it anymore because half of their guys can't stay under 500 feet, much less 65 feet. Taking the base with 15 or less guys is risky, taking more lessens the risk but isn't much fun for either side. These base taking squads aren't about furballing, they are about teamwork (or hording and calling it teamwork) and could care less if they improve as an individual.
For me, Aces High is like golf. The only scorecard I have is the one that carry within. Unfortunately, not everyone feels this way and they still want their money's worth inside Aces High.
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If I was in charge, I would make the following changes;
1. Increase radar height to 175 feet over land, 100 feet over water and disable auto level below 300 AGL/ASL.
2. Change towns to make ack mannable, but still have it auto fire at aircraft or tank in visual range only (not behind hedges, etc). Also have the ack return quicker after being destroyed, this includes airfields.
3. Keep the hardness and the downtime on towns but allow troops dropped BEFORE the town is 'flat' to destroy X number of buildings and to keep them down longer.
4. Put the person's name on the system who dropped the troops to capture a town. ie SYSTEM: ArmChairGeneral has captured A35 with a M3.
5. Start a zone eny system. Have it take effect after more than 12 aircraft have been launched. So, after you launch 12 guys from a single airfield, you can't launch anymore until the other side has launched some in the area. This way, no more than a 12 man abundance of fighters can be in one area at one time unless they launch from very far away.
6. Start several wind layers and cloud layers to dissuade high alt buffs.
7. Start using the complex bomb site.
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I'm not entirely unsympathetic, but the 'W1N Z3 W@R' people in the game shouldn't get what they want either or they will be bored to tears from a lack of a challenge.
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Lusche nailed it...
....I'm not entirely unsympathetic, but the 'W1N Z3 W@R' people in the game shouldn't get what they want either or they will be bored to tears from a lack of a challenge.
I agree.
I believe the game has given players too much of an option of being able to conduct different things in this game, a good example is noe missions, HT obviously has seen the damage that this has done by being as liberal with the radar settings as they were and the repercussions of tyring to expand or appease to those that are not up for a challenge or the WOW crowd.
Somehow in the minds of these players the carrot has become the meal. The meat of this game is air combat no matter how you slice it this Thanksgiving day.
At some point, common sense will have to trump profit or the meaning of the game will be lost forever or even the game itself as we know it.
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I agree.
I believe the game has given players too much of an option of being able to conduct different things in this game, a good example is noe missions, HT obviously has seen the damage that this has done by being as liberal with the radar settings as they were and the repercussions of tyring to expand or appease to those that are not up for a challenge or the WOW crowd.
Somehow in the minds of these players the carrot has become the meal. The meat of this game is air combat no matter how you slice it this Thanksgiving day.
At some point, common sense will have to trump profit or the meaning of the game will be lost forever or even the game itself as we know it.
Okay, that's it!!!! Dads nailed it and this thread can be closed. HTC, take lesson. Remove all buildings, towns, city's, strats, ships, boats, and GVs. In fact, we don't even need a ground. Just put the bases 'floating' in the air at 10K. We can take off and fly around and engage in our meat-Air Combat. The problem has been solved. Well Done Dads and Del. :aok
If one is a 'fighter' purist, why is it so hard to accept that other people have different opinions and must be condescending? If HTC wanted this game to be solely about the one-v-one dogfight, he would not have put all the 'extras' in the game. AH would have been created like the WWI arena, but with P51s and 190s. If one is solely a fighter pursist, what harm is there to you if others choose to engage in other parts of the game that HTC provided? Why do YOU THINK YOUR OPINION is correct. An opinion is just that an OPINION. There is no right or wrong.
Having said that, I agree that the point of the game is combat. The part of the game I enjoy is combat (air or ground). I love a good dogfight as much as the next guy (though admittedly, I am not exceptionally good - I hold my own, but against the truly good sticks, I am easy meat). That also having been said, what's wrong with one side or the other having the opportunity to capture land as evidence of the victorious combat?
The problem, as has been explained previously, is that the town has become so monstrous that it requires too many people to put it in a capture-able position. As such, a horde is inevitable and eventually leads to vulching (both of which are suck situations). The system is setup such that the horde has to vulch to even keep one plane from upping, because after the combat to control the skies (in theory) has been won, a single L-gay ups, HOs at everything in site to go and shoot the goon on the ground or a troop from the air. And, you would be correct that the vulch is NOT combat and as I said, it is a suck situation. But the town settings are such that the game has digressed to hordes and vulches to be able to effect a capture.
Individual combat is an individual accomplishment. We take pride and satisfaction in defeating the opposite individual. The base capture is a part of the collective/team accomplishment. Being able to bring back a base scalp to the team represents the team win. Why is that so hard to understand? I don't think anyone is advocating that we all roll every undefended base. What would the point of that be? The point many are trying to make is that the combat (air and land) needs to promote some discernible show of victory. And, the towns/bases need to promote combat. Right now, defense is so overwhelming, that the offense must bring the 'horde'. Lessen the of-balance in defense, and set up the bases to promote multiple 10-15 person fights all over the map rather than requiring 35 people at one location. How that can be accomplished, I don't know --- but I do agree that we need to search for it.
:salute :cheers:
Happy Thanksgiving to all (includes the Winz the Warz, 1v1s, horders, tankers, bombers, tool-shedders, hanger-bangers, AvAers, EWer, LWer, MWers, furzballers, HOer's, runners, BnZers, Alt-monkeys, My-way-or-no-way-ers, air-combat the rest of you suck-ers, and especially to HTC) I hope I didn't leave anyone out - please accept my apologies if I failed to name your group. :cheers:
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Delirium, one of the issues that AH faces that other MMORG's tend not to is that there is no segregation between the newest recruit and the 20 year vet of online combat flight sims. So it's very challenging to balance how difficult things should be. While you and many of the more experienced players would find changes such as those you describe challenging, the raw recruit is going to have a different word for it - Impossible. In WOW you start out fighting bunnies in an area protected from other players - in AH your first engagement might well be a 20 year vet.
Drediock, I have almost the same thing to say to you - except that where Delirium is proposing increased difficult, you are proposing increased complexity - which to the less experienced player, is the same thing.
<S>
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If one is a 'any style of game' purist, why is it so hard to accept that other people have different opinions and must be condescending?
Fixed :aok
You have got alot going on in your thread, I understand everything your saying, however your not understanding anything else.
Nobody is saying you have to play a certain way lets get that clear, what it boils down to is some are saying game play has swayed one way more than the other, and its not.
You can still play any way you want and its encouraged, however, as for noe missions=hording its more of a challenge now than it was before and a bit more of coordinating but its not as easy as the WOW days of past. I still believe it could use more tweaking since you do see more of a massive mission usually to take a base before. But its already been shown that no matter how large or small a town or field is there will always be overkill to accomplish it and that is the biggest complaint, that this becomes the entire reason to play, the carrot becomes the meal.
The carrot that HT created has come back to bite him in the arse and now players believe it is an inherent right to have things as easy as they were without understanding or caring to recognize the hurt it has caused in the game.
Tell me what you cant do now that you could do before again?
Condescending? Try to keep up and be more understanding.
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I'd simply like to see something that discourages 80% of the player base to log on, and join crap like this. (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/bj229r/ahss3.jpg)
What's the point of a map with 200 bases, when SOOO many log on and run to the protective blob. It reduces the game to a series of Genghis Khan whordes, with little to no small interaction. (This example happens to be Nit, but they certainly have no monopoly on this) I see this crap repeated over. As has been said before, it's no fun flying WITH this sort of thing, as there is zero challenge involved, save to be the 1 guy out of 10 chasing the lone spit, who manages to bag the kill. Not terribly fun going against it either, saving picking around the edges in a 262. I see 3-4 areas of the map which look like this (all one country, no opposition)....mebbe get ho'd in DA by the endless Tempests...log
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/bj229r/ahss7.jpg)
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1. But its already been shown that no matter how large or small a town or field is there will always be overkill to accomplish it and that is the biggest complaint, that this becomes the entire reason to play, the carrot becomes the meal.
2. The carrot that HT created has come back to bite him in the arse and now players believe it is an inherent right to have things as easy as they were without understanding or caring to recognize the hurt it has caused in the game.
3. Tell me what you cant do now that you could do before again?
4. Condescending? Try to keep up and be more understanding.
1. You are correct. And, therein lies the dilemma of finding the balance to promote small to medium fights all over the map. Rather than a single large massively overwhelming force (i.e. chicken dance to vulch)
2. I believe you are partially correct on this point, but I would hope that the vast majority of players aren't looking for "Easy" but they do want attainable. I would 'HOPE' that people are not actually asking for the game and town to become so 'dumbed down' that town captures are no more difficult than driving in a putting out troops.
3. There is nothing in the game that I cannot do now that I could before. However, Ghastly has made a very valid and well stated point just above your post and is relevant to this post. I would also refer you back to my previous post. It is not that a portion of the game has been taken away. It is that to effect a certain portion of that game (i.e. towns) the attacking force has to be so overwhelming that a 'horde'/vulch is INEVITABLE. (a suck situation). Also, don't confuse that I don't like the towns. I love the look and I love the game play in the town. The problem is still finding the balance to make the 'battle' (not WARZ) winnable without such a massively large force. (By Battle, I do mean combat, not SNEAK).
4. What part did I not understand or keep up with? You made a condescending statement that the game is solely about air combat. In the re-post, you changed the message, which changes the context of what you said. I do believe that I have kept up with the conversation just fine. And by ending your message with suggesting that I am unable to keep up, you have again decided that your are 'better than me' or everyone else. Please explain how that IS NOT condescending?
Dads, you and I have often agreed and held similar view points on most topics on the BBS. If I recall (though I could be mistaken) we have even flown some together and gotten along fine. I see no reason to make this personal. :salute
(Below is NOT directed at Dads or anyone else specific, but to the community)
As for the game, it may have started out as a purist aero-combat experience; however, if you have ever read Who Moved My Cheese you know that CHANGE is inevitable. HTC has created a monster (a good one) and now it is becoming what the market will bear. Do you think that if HTC had 10,000 subscribers, but 75% of them only drove tanks, he would close the doors to the business and shut down the game because it is NOT what HTC intended it to be? The game has evolved and is now what the market dictates. The key is to find a way to make the market (i.e. customers) promote combat in the game thus ensuring long term stability and survival.
:cheers:
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WoW and EQ2 are letting people play for free now. EQ numbers were going down ten years ago while I was playing.
I guess alot aren't "getting it" there either.
wrongway
You make my point!!! Of course those games have leveled out or even decreased over years BECAUSE at some point you ran out of things/quests/levels to do.....BUT then another improved version came out that you moved on to!!! In this case AION....where you have all the things EQ2 had but includes flying and PvP. The games adapt and improve...they don't keep providing the same experience over and over again and expect US to adapt and be satisfied with what we have....
BTW WoW just released another add on which expands the game so i wouldn't count it out yet =) they also just revamped all the entry level quests etc so you can have a completely different experience if you were to start a new character...
HTC was on the right track when they were experimenting with AI and possible offline missions/events....
What so many of these posters don't seem to grasp is that us squad leaders basically provided free of charge the "quests" for folks who wanted to do group activities in the MA. We posted the missions that were fun and attracted folks. BECAUSE we opted not to create missions that maximized putting the mission in harms way we were told we were bad bad bad and only wanted to attack undefended bases etc. If you had a good rank you were told you were gaming it...if you had a good k/d people said you flew timidly....If you took many bases you were a "win th3 War" bad person....
this is the least supportive community I have ever seen...very little respect is given for ANY accomplishment and in fact most accomplishments (as mentioned above) are viewed in a negative light.
Dan...you yourself would be the first to admit that you are not a top stick...yet you and folks like yourself are the first to tell us why we can't have fun doing things other then furballing....yet you don't really make much of an effort to be great at the very thing you hold up as the top priority of the game...instead you tend to ridicule parts of the game (i.e. torpedoing towns) etc
I guess I have to ask why do you give a darn what other folks do or don't do??? Do you spy on your neighbors and talk negatively about them??? I doubt it...so why do you not afford this community the same respect? A large number of folks have made it clear what is or isn't fun for them...why are you against letting them enjoy the game as they see fit?
I am afraid that it will be HTC that will pay the price for catering to the furballing community....all these changes have direct impact on the "goal "oriented" side of this community....please tell me a time when the furballing community couldn't play the game exactly as they wanted?? they even have the DA, Ava, ww1 to enjoy the heck out of themselves.....we have the MA and now rules that have made it impossible to accomplish anything...you can now add the MA to the 3 (2 dead) arenas that cater to furballers....as Grizz has been saying...it will be very empty as more of us give up this game.
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this is the least supportive community I have ever seen...very little respect is given for ANY accomplishment and in fact most accomplishments (as mentioned above) are viewed in a negative light.
Well...so often, the success of the afore-mentioned quests kills fights, drives potential adversaries to the other side of the map, because the enemy can't stand up to the onslaught....there is a line somewhere, just don't know where it is
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Okay, that's it!!!! Dads nailed it and this thread can be closed. HTC, take lesson. Remove all buildings, towns, city's, strats, ships, boats, and GVs. In fact, we don't even need a ground. Just put the bases 'floating' in the air at 10K. We can take off and fly around and engage in our meat-Air Combat. The problem has been solved. Well Done Dads and Del.
Where did I say anything about removing base taking? Heck, I offered a few suggestions to improve it for you.
It doesn't matter, flame away. Why did I even bother?
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Where did I say anything about removing base taking? Heck, I offered a few suggestions to improve it for you.
It doesn't matter, flame away. Why did I even bother?
My apologies, Del. I misread a post and should not have included you in the sarcastic quip. Please accept my sincere apology on that. :salute
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Dan...you yourself would be the first to admit that you are not a top stick...yet you and folks like yourself are the first to tell us why we can't have fun doing things other then furballing....yet you don't really make much of an effort to be great at the very thing you hold up as the top priority of the game...instead you tend to ridicule parts of the game (i.e. torpedoing towns) etc
I guess I have to ask why do you give a darn what other folks do or don't do??? Do you spy on your neighbors and talk negatively about them??? I doubt it...so why do you not afford this community the same respect? A large number of folks have made it clear what is or isn't fun for them...why are you against letting them enjoy the game as they see fit?
I am afraid that it will be HTC that will pay the price for catering to the furballing community....all these changes have direct impact on the "goal "oriented" side of this community....please tell me a time when the furballing community couldn't play the game exactly as they wanted?? they even have the DA, Ava, ww1 to enjoy the heck out of themselves.....we have the MA and now rules that have made it impossible to accomplish anything...you can now add the MA to the 3 (2 dead) arenas that cater to furballers....as Grizz has been saying...it will be very empty as more of us give up this game.
Good post. (Although Corky is actually a very good stick)
Corky the thing is, you preach fun fun fun, try to keep things light hearted, yet you have proven that you are completely intolerant of accepting and embracing other sorts of game play that other people find fun. You want people to enjoy the game as you do, which is fine to a point, but most people do not enjoy that. You need to come to terms with that.
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as Grizz has been saying...it will be very empty as more of us give up this game.
Have you given up yet?
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Have you given up yet?
Except for 2 hours a week for squad night...I still love and respect those guys....my answer is yes... :salute
I only responded to this thread, after weeks of not even reading the boards, because it applied to my sentiments...
Besides being a jerk....why did you feel compelled to respond??? You are another good example of why this game/community is where it is...rather then stfu if it doesn't apply to you...you would rather snipe at someone trying to express a legitimate point of view about gameplay. :huh
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Good post. (Although Corky is actually a very good stick)
Corky the thing is, you preach fun fun fun, try to keep things light hearted, yet you have proven that you are completely intolerant of accepting and embracing other sorts of game play that other people find fun. You want people to enjoy the game as you do, which is fine to a point, but most people do not enjoy that. You need to come to terms with that.
Good post. I hope i didnt insult Dan with my comment...it wasn't to demean his skills....he is a very good stick...i should have tried another tact to illustrate my point. :salute
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Besides being a jerk....why did you feel compelled to respond???
Seems to me your the one being a jerk. There is no compulsion to respond. I simply find your absolutism interesting.
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I guess...WW II was:
1. The only limits commanders had were on the troops, equipment and manned aircraft at their disposal (hording)
2. There was no eny
3. HOing (I hate it too) was a tactic (Thach weave was predicated on a head on shot and Allied aircraft had bulletproof windscreens installed to support the fact of it being a tactic)
4. There are no rules in war...is this a flight sim, war game or both? You have the option to change sides
5. Troops captured places....period. Still do. Troops caused damage...troops eliminated pill boxes, shore batteries, ack, etc.
So?
Hording is a tactic that yields results (and a target rich environment...shhhhh, you don't really die! lol) It shouldn't be limited, halted or condemned. If the other side was good enough at organizing an attack, the other side needs to get better at defending against it. I hate it too...but only when I can't get anyone to stop by and help...if you really think about it, that's why it upsets everyone else too....or else you wouldn't see the guy that just squeaked on 200 about a horde, shoot you down while you are defending AGAINST one.
LET THE TROOPS DO DAMAGE!!! If someone has the testicles to fly multiple C47s into a hot area and drop troops, it should count and they should do damage. Make them more visible to the side that dropped them so they can monitor their numbers and progress but it should count. No, I have no idea how to model that in a computer...but if one can model the fair amount of damage that can cause an aircraft carrier to sink, they can certainly model 10 little cartoon men running around with rifles and grenades in a town or on a field.
I hate hordes......but that is war and when its coordinated, its devastating. All sides need to consider communicating better and responding more effectively to such coordinated attacks. Don't change anything for the sake of dying less....its a game and that is just panzyass.
:salute
Changeup
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Good post. (Although Corky is actually a very good stick)
Corky the thing is, you preach fun fun fun, try to keep things light hearted, yet you have proven that you are completely intolerant of accepting and embracing other sorts of game play that other people find fun. You want people to enjoy the game as you do, which is fine to a point, but most people do not enjoy that. You need to come to terms with that.
I don't recall deliberately interfering with anyone's game play ever, unless that includes wading into the horde on numerous occasions. I manage to find fun in the game anytime I play. If I have any intolerance, it's for folks never just stopping and enjoying the game and for going out of their way to ruin the fun of others.
Put it back to AH1. Modify it over and over again. Put it exactly the way the base takers want. Guess what. I'll still be chugging around looking for a fight. Will I embrace 'win the war"? Nope. Don't have the time or the inclination. Will I interfere with someone doing that? Nope. Wish I could say the same for those folks who go out of their way to interfere with the way I like to play 'because they can :)
If I want strategy, I'll fly a scenario. it makes sense then. But again. I don't care. I'm going to have fun regardless. If it helps your cause to have me stop talking in these threads, I can do that too. I'm convinced that no matter what HTC does, it won't satisfy folks.
It's the old line from Moggy in Airwarrior where he said that they could get every body laid, and people would still complain.
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I guess...WW II was:
1. The only limits commanders had were on the troops, equipment and manned aircraft at their disposal (hording)
2. There was no eny
3. HOing (I hate it too) was a tactic (Thach weave was predicated on a head on shot and Allied aircraft had bulletproof windscreens installed to support the fact of it being a tactic)
4. There are no rules in war...is this a flight sim, war game or both? You have the option to change sides
5. Troops captured places....period. Still do. Troops caused damage...troops eliminated pill boxes, shore batteries, ack, etc.
So?
Hording is a tactic that yields results (and a target rich environment...shhhhh, you don't really die! lol) It shouldn't be limited, halted or condemned. If the other side was good enough at organizing an attack, the other side needs to get better at defending against it. I hate it too...but only when I can't get anyone to stop by and help...if you really think about it, that's why it upsets everyone else too....or else you wouldn't see the guy that just squeaked on 200 about a horde, shoot you down while you are defending AGAINST one.
LET THE TROOPS DO DAMAGE!!! If someone has the testicles to fly multiple C47s into a hot area and drop troops, it should count and they should do damage. Make them more visible to the side that dropped them so they can monitor their numbers and progress but it should count. No, I have no idea how to model that in a computer...but if one can model the fair amount of damage that can cause an aircraft carrier to sink, they can certainly model 10 little cartoon men running around with rifles and grenades in a town or on a field.
I hate hordes......but that is war and when its coordinated, its devastating. All sides need to consider communicating better and responding more effectively to such coordinated attacks. Don't change anything for the sake of dying less....its a game and that is just panzyass.
:salute
Changeup
This is NOT war, it's a game. If it WAS war we wouldn't have to read any more of your posts, because you would be dead.
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It's the old line from Moggy in Airwarrior where he said that they could get every body laid, and people would still complain.
My wife is 9 month pregnant, I guarantee I would stop complaining.
As long as the partner isn't male, or Silat. :devil
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This is NOT war, it's a game. If it WAS war we wouldn't have to read any more of your posts, because you would be dead.
I gotta tell ya, that is some smart stuff....very smart! lmao
Its a game based on war...to argue that makes you dull. If people want to put rules on war for the sake of the game (read: easymode, or whatever you wanna put here that promotes easier gameplay) I think it facilitates the deterioration of the game IMO. Truthfully, I really dont G A S but I must say your intellectual contribution to the commentary of this thread is sheer brilliance. I am throbbing with anticipation for your next cranial explosion of mental ju-jitsu. Creating an end-game, war-winner as others have suggested is a perfect compliment to the game...but to put limits on hordes, raids, etc is unnecessary and rewards whiners.
Keep um comin...lol
V/r
Changeup
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I gotta tell ya, that is some smart stuff....very smart! lmao
Its a game based on war...to argue that makes you dull. If people want to put rules on war for the sake of the game (read: easymode, or whatever you wanna put here that promotes easier gameplay) I think it facilitates the deterioration of the game IMO. Truthfully, I really dont G A S but I must say your intellectual contribution to the commentary of this thread is sheer brilliance. I am throbbing with anticipation for your next cranial explosion of mental ju-jitsu. Creating an end-game, war-winner as others have suggested is a perfect compliment to the game...but to put limits on hordes, raids, etc is unnecessary and rewards whiners.
Keep um comin...lol
V/r
Changeup
Easy on Fugitive changeup lol. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. :)
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Easy on Fugitive changeup lol. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. :)
Understood....I am trying to help him stop humping his own ankle. If I could hump my own ankle, I'd never leave my house...I guess that's why some commentary here is useless....they should leave the house more often.
Changeup
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I don't recall deliberately interfering with anyone's game play ever, unless that includes wading into the horde on numerous occasions. I manage to find fun in the game anytime I play. If I have any intolerance, it's for folks never just stopping and enjoying the game and for going out of their way to ruin the fun of others.
Absolute fact. I have flown with/against Corky on many occasions and he typed it like he plays.... :salute
V/r
Changeup
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I gotta tell ya, that is some smart stuff....very smart! lmao
Its a game based on war...to argue that makes you dull. If people want to put rules on war for the sake of the game (read: easymode, or whatever you wanna put here that promotes easier gameplay) I think it facilitates the deterioration of the game IMO. Truthfully, I really dont G A S but I must say your intellectual contribution to the commentary of this thread is sheer brilliance. I am throbbing with anticipation for your next cranial explosion of mental ju-jitsu. Creating an end-game, war-winner as others have suggested is a perfect compliment to the game...but to put limits on hordes, raids, etc is unnecessary and rewards whiners.
Keep um comin...lol
V/r
Changeup
Ahh wonderful, we have a professor of BS to quote on the boards. Just what we need.
Ok I'll spell it out for those of you who think they know it all. This is a game, I don't care what its based on, or how you feel it should run, the bottom line is it's a game. There are and always will be concession made for game play. After all if everyone really died nobody would be paying their subscription next month and HTC would be out of business.
The stupidity of calling this a war is just plan ridiculous. We do not have the horrors of war, death, torture, the killing of innocents, nor do we have the same limitations of war. In our case there is no cost other than our subscriptions. Everything is free including you next "life". We can not carpet bomb a country into submission because 45 minutes later the towns are back up and whole.
So as seeing as this IS a game, its suppose to be fun, and that means fun for everyone that plays. Furballer, GVer, or landgrabber. Fighting against the horde is NOT fun. While I really don't care how many times I die, it gets frustrating dieing to 7 cons while I'm trying to have fun fighting against one. So while Hordes are a good tactic in war its killing the game because it just isn't fun.
Having an end game.... LOL!!! there are so many "end games" in this game now. There is the end game when you beat a guy 1 vs 1 in an air battle, there are any number of end games for that as in 1 vs 2, 1 vs 3 and so on. There is racking up kills in a GV spawn, the is the breaking of a spawn camp. There is the full round trip to hit Strats in buffs, there is bombing of towns, there is capture of bases either vehicle, airfield, or port all of them being different. And then of course there is the winning of the war, the ultimate rest of the map. All of these "end games" are still here. When I fight Grizz my end game is a bit harder than most of my fights, but I don't just bail out and say "it's not fun any more because Grizz shoots me down" and then expect HTC to change the game to make it more difficult for Grizz to shoot me down.
The stupidity of a post like this thread comes from the stubbornness of people not to adapt. Lets play a different game.... we are playing football, the center hikes the ball the quarter back hands off to the fullback and he runs through the hole the lineman make for a gain of 20 yards. They run this play over and over again marching down the field until the defense changes it's plan. they now expect that move and block the hole and the offense no longer advances. If the offense doesn't change it's plan it would make for a pretty lopsided game don't ya think?
So HTC has changed the plan, Suck it up and learn to adapt. Learn different plays. Or leave. It's your choice.
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Fighting against the horde is NOT fun.
Dam... I always thought I have fun doing that. Good thing to learn I was wrong. ;)
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Ahh wonderful, we have a professor of BS to quote on the boards. Just what we need.
Of all the people to make this accusation! lmfao...it must be tough for you to have some competition.
I, therefore you, is the worst kind negotiation (or motivational tactic). But the BEST part of your post is when you feel like telling people what YOUR fun is....as a general rule, no one cares what you or anyone else thinks is fun...everyone gets to define "fun" themselves. If you keep humping your own ankle, its liable to fall off.
Changeup
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ahhh but you think its ok to tell everyone how they should be playing...like it is war. I see.
My opinion has always been MY opinion. I don't hide behind the internet, I don't switch sides when I may be on the unfavorable side of the discussion. Funny thing is, for years I've been saying how the NOEs are killing this game and oh look changes have been made so that NOEs are much harder to do, and so are not so common as before. I'm not saying I was the catalyst to get that change made, but I did say...even when it wasn't favorable to say it... that it was hurting the game.
I am saying the same about the hordes, they are not fun ( Lusche your better than that ). I know many people who hate being part of them, due to lack of targets, due to ease of swamping a base, due to ease of capture of a base, no challenge, and from the other side, due to the over whelming numbers to fight against. How many players quick this game due to be hammered by the horde, or by being lost in the horde?
I'm saying the same thing about the lack of give most players have in this game. Sure I'd love to see the old days back, 100-150 guys flying nothing but fighters going head to head of a single base all night. Unfortunately 150 subscriptions won't pay the bills and HTC has to have more people paying them to do so. So we have many ways to play. That's cool, but if one way dominates play, the other players will leave. Right now the Landgrab guys that wish to avoid fights are dominating. HTC looks to be changing things to even things back up.
Instead of comment on how you think about me posting, maybe you should try a post a bit more on topic.
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(*snip*) Right now the Landgrab guys that wish to avoid fights are dominating. HTC looks to be changing things to even things back up. (*snip*)
Fug... you are correct in that we all have a right to post our opinions. And, to each their own on the style and manner of play.
But, I am not sure I agree with your above statement, in that Landgrabbers (in MY opinion) are not looking to dominate the game. I think that 'land grabbers' / Winz the W@rz are trying to be able to play the game and capture land WITHOUT the NEED for huge mobs to swarm a field. I am sure there is no doubt that there are some players who absolutely have NO INTEREST in fighting and will always horde-monkey every base and run away at every enemy con. But I would tend to believe that most land-grabbers would prefer to fight over a base to achieve victory (base capture). Clearly, I have no empirical data to support this statement and I am not sure that anyone can prove it one way or the other, but I certainly do believe (in my opinion) that it is true.
:salute
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Instead of comment on how you think about me posting, maybe you should try a post a bit more on topic.
That is exactly what I did before you made your "I-have-been-here-a-long-time-and-have-the-pulse-of-the-AH-community" comments about being a game, not war. That is the trouble with the people that just post to hear themselves write...you didn't bother to read my post in the first place. If you had, you would have seen that I wrote in #4 above...a war GAME. A war GAME is a game that simulates or is about WAR at the very least. Again, trying to guilt Lusche for what he finds fun is exceptionally self-indulgent.
If you truly like the aerial fights...fighting a horde promotes that, does it not? Dying isn't fun...ok, I get that...but you, nor anyone else that plays this game will EVER live forever so get over it. Hording is a tactic that I hate more than you because I'm not as good at this game as you are...period. But, I like the fight. I don't care about my score as some people do....I dont' even understand scoring for the most part but the only reason I can think people avoid the fight, like against a horde, is score. If that ISNT the reason, why not fight then? The fight is in the horde sometimes because thats where the enemy is, en masse, so do you like the fight or not? Like you said, you get a brand new shiny plane. Or, as you suggested, go fly somewhere else where there are more fair fights.
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That is exactly what I did before you made your "I-have-been-here-a-long-time-and-have-the-pulse-of-the-AH-community" comments about being a game, not war. That is the trouble with the people that just post to hear themselves write...you didn't bother to read my post in the first place. If you had, you would have seen that I wrote in #4 above...a war GAME. A war GAME is a game that simulates or is about WAR at the very least. Again, trying to guilt Lusche for what he finds fun is exceptionally self-indulgent.
If you truly like the aerial fights...fighting a horde promotes that, does it not? Dying isn't fun...ok, I get that...but you, nor anyone else that plays this game will EVER live forever so get over it. Hording is a tactic that I hate more than you because I'm not as good at this game as you are...period. But, I like the fight. I don't care about my score as some people do....I dont' even understand scoring for the most part but the only reason I can think people avoid the fight, like against a horde, is score. If that ISNT the reason, why not fight then? The fight is in the horde sometimes because thats where the enemy is, en masse, so do you like the fight or not? Like you said, you get a brand new shiny plane. Or, as you suggested, go fly somewhere else where there are more fair fights.
Hordes are successful because THEY are organized, and their available opposition is usually not. I dont know of any countries that station 15 guys with La7's in the tower on standby hour after hour keeping watch on the horizon to respond to them. By the time it becomes evident that afore-mentioned whord is inbound to a base, maybe 5 guys are available (assuming they WANT to jump into a 1 on 5 slaughter), and the whord more often than not has its way. Odd that you hate hording...you flew with a squad at DA lake that often outnumbered the rest of the arena, and then joined a huge squad in MA. Without the protective layer of 3-4 guys nearby all the time, ya get a different perspective for this stuff
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I think we can agree that this is still a good Game. Lots of fun stuff that you can still do. It is the part of the game that gave alot of people gratification in taking a base and winning the war that's the issue. Gratification has turned into discouragement. Only people that see this are the one's that like to do it. The goal in any game I have ever enjoyed play was winning. Winning or loosing a 1v1 over and over eventually gets stagnate in my opinion. The dueling fan base will always have their element to the game if the war is or isn't ever won.
Seems to me the more elements they are to a game the higher the player base is gonna be.
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Hordes are successful because THEY are organized, and their available opposition is usually not. I dont know of any countries that station 15 guys with La7's in the tower on standby hour after hour keeping watch on the horizon to respond to them. By the time it becomes evident that afore-mentioned whord is inbound to a base, maybe 5 guys are available (assuming they WANT to jump into a 1 on 5 slaughter), and the whord more often than not has its way. Odd that you hate hording...you flew with a squad at DA lake that often outnumbered the rest of the arena, and then joined a huge squad in MA. Without the protective layer of 3-4 guys nearby all the time, ya get a different perspective for this stuff
Its not odd...I switched sides often and if you'll recall, I was brand, spankin new to the game at the time and could barely get the plane off the ground much less fly it against anyone that had a weeks worth of experience. Pardon me for not developing an opinion about tactics as quickly as you would have liked me to. Now, I rarely go in there for that very reason, but thanks for putting that out there because it has nothing to do with what I said earlier about NOT eliminating the hordes. If you are going to have a game about war, hordes are a part of war. I hate the hordes, but they do present a fight....questions about that bj? Am I clear? You can ask anyone that has killed me defending AGAINST a horde...they got no whine from me about it....it was my decision to fly into it. A protective layer??? lmao...the guys in my squad are laughin their tulips off at me most of the time because I DONT wait for them or they listen to me complain about me being the only one there!! You don't know much....try not to be a noodge.
With regard to the Pigs, as a group, 98% of the time, we defend AGAINST hordes and don't mind doin it..and, the average number of Pigs online is about 10...except for Titanic Tue and then, all bets are off anyway. I suggest you do a little more homework or at the very least remember things more accurately before you go blowin off your mouth.
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ahhh but you think its ok to tell everyone how they should be playing...like it is war. I see.
My opinion has always been MY opinion. I don't hide behind the internet, I don't switch sides when I may be on the unfavorable side of the discussion. Funny thing is, for years I've been saying how the NOEs are killing this game and oh look changes have been made so that NOEs are much harder to do, and so are not so common as before. I'm not saying I was the catalyst to get that change made, but I did say...even when it wasn't favorable to say it... that it was hurting the game.
I am saying the same about the hordes, they are not fun ( Lusche your better than that ). I know many people who hate being part of them, due to lack of targets, due to ease of swamping a base, due to ease of capture of a base, no challenge, and from the other side, due to the over whelming numbers to fight against. How many players quick this game due to be hammered by the horde, or by being lost in the horde?
I'm saying the same thing about the lack of give most players have in this game. Sure I'd love to see the old days back, 100-150 guys flying nothing but fighters going head to head of a single base all night. Unfortunately 150 subscriptions won't pay the bills and HTC has to have more people paying them to do so. So we have many ways to play. That's cool, but if one way dominates play, the other players will leave. Right now the Landgrab guys that wish to avoid fights are dominating. HTC looks to be changing things to even things back up.
Instead of comment on how you think about me posting, maybe you should try a post a bit more on topic.
NOEs are killing this game??? A bit of an over statement, don't ya think??
I find it absolutley hysterical that guys are trying to make it seem like NOEs were happening incessently all over the maps every day 24/7. We ALL know that is nowhere near the truth.
Most NOEs that I USED to see, were conducted by 8 to 12 guys and were very easily defended against.
If ya got lucky, those same guys would continue to assault the base for quite a while and good fights were had by all.
Those days are now gone.
And of course you always hear the "avoiding fights" comments, which imho are the most hypocritical statements I've ever seen on these boards.
Those statements are probably made by the same guys who bring 190s and 51s to a good CV battle.
I think that guys in fighters "avoiding fights" are killing this game more than anything else.
Oh wait!! they're not "avoiding fights". They're "flying smart"!! LMAO!!
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I am saying the same about the hordes, they are not fun ( Lusche your better than that ).
Better than what? I enjoy the horde. I take a full sector bar of red over a single 1v1 anytime. :)
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Hordes are successful because THEY are organized,
Hordes by definition are not organised........... hordes are created by swarming instincts of players migrating to their own dar bars........... missions are organised, missions are not hordes.....they are missions.
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With regard to the Pigs, as a group, 98% of the time, we defend AGAINST hordes and don't mind doin it..and, the average number of Pigs online is about 10...except for Titanic Tue and then, all bets are off anyway. I suggest you do a little more homework or at the very least remember things more accurately before you go blowin off your mouth.
lol oh boy that i can atest to, many times while flying around i always keep my map open ( real big monitor so its no big deal to) ill see a town just start to flash i'll bail right away and go check it out, call out the Hordes coming and the Pigs come a running, next thing you know is theres one hella fight going on which can last as long as the Attackers want it to, most Hordes thou when they encounter anything over small resistance they'll go someplace else after you beat them back
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most Hordes thou when they encounter anything over small resistance they'll go someplace else after you beat them back
Then they go somewhere else to be beaten back again possibly.
Sounds like "combat" to me. :aok
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Then they go somewhere else to be beaten back again possibly.
Sounds like "combat" to me. :aok
Yea we purdy much followed them around that night busted 3 missions, alot of fun, BUT when you don't get the responce from defenders the Horde can just over run a base and upping just to die get's old fast
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Yea we purdy much followed them around that night busted 3 missions, alot of fun, BUT when you don't get the responce from defenders the Horde can just over run a base and upping just to die get's old fast
LOL, yup! Ya win some , ya lose some.
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Seems to me the more elements there are to a game the higher the player base is gonna be.
Not sure of the percentages but I'll take my best guess.
Removing winning the war might account for 10% of AH's player base as important to keep and another reason for HT to try and make it more interesting as Lusche describes in this post. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,300883.0.html
80% would be my guess of those who like to either take or defend bases. Sometimes defend also means mindless furballing... or at least attracts it. If bases become nearly impossible to take,... why put any effort into planning most missions or organizing squads specific to those duties? Just fly around where everyone else gathers will become the norm along with hordes vulching bases repeatedly.
Remove that aspect of the game and many Squads become meaningless to join IMO ...with the exception of Muppet types who care not for base taking, defending or ground action but just flying around aimlessly killing people and increasing their A2A skills. People who join These types of squads may only account for 10% of AH members.
Another small percentage of people who play here might be considered free lance. Whether in a squad or not they only stop in for a few hours a week looking for quick action. These people don't usually become long term subscribers due to time restraints or develop continued interest....possibly due to the learning curve or lack of friends made. There's nothing to really hold them here.
With the recent changes to the game as described by many of you, it seems AH is taking a more Air combat only or H2H stance on game play here.
They have enough arenas to conduct experiments and see who's more interested in what.
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Fug... you are correct in that we all have a right to post our opinions. And, to each their own on the style and manner of play.
But, I am not sure I agree with your above statement, in that Landgrabbers (in MY opinion) are not looking to dominate the game. I think that 'land grabbers' / Winz the W@rz are trying to be able to play the game and capture land WITHOUT the NEED for huge mobs to swarm a field. I am sure there is no doubt that there are some players who absolutely have NO INTEREST in fighting and will always horde-monkey every base and run away at every enemy con. But I would tend to believe that most land-grabbers would prefer to fight over a base to achieve victory (base capture). Clearly, I have no empirical data to support this statement and I am not sure that anyone can prove it one way or the other, but I certainly do believe (in my opinion) that it is true.
:salute
I sorry if it seems I'm lumping in everyone under the "landgrab" tag. The bolded above are those that I speak of and unfortunately they are the types I see more and more.
I don't know how many times I've hear, and seen it said by those in the employee of HTC that this game is about conflict/combat. Anything that that brings forces together and a conflict/combat ensues is good. Anything that causes that NOT to happen is bad.
Porking fuel to 25% caused people not to defend because they would run out of fuel as they got the the base under attack, you can no longer pork fuel that low.
Clearing a field of ack and vulching cause defenders to leave the area of conflict, HTC doubled the number of ack on a field.
NOE's were running rampant (and still are at times, just log on when orange has an "island" map. You can try to follow the "Jokers" around that map as they NOE first one side and then the other of the map.) and HTC lowered the radar to 65 feet. Later increasing it and then lowering it again. Why? to piss people off, or maybe he saw too many NOEs again?
Better than what? I enjoy the horde. I take a full sector bar of red over a single 1v1 anytime. :)
What I meant was you know me better than that. What I post is MY OPINION. I may suggest to others to try other things, but I never say PLAY MY WAY! As many have said, there are many ways to play this game. When HTC sees an imbalance they make changes. Some time the changes are worst that the imbalance to some, but we all know we as a community can't keep the game fair and fun for all.
Yes I have been here a long time. I'm not saying I've seen everything, but I've seen alot. I post what I think, and what I've heard and read. You don't like, don't read it. There are a number of people that I really don't agree with, but I respect what they have to say. If you look back I've never personally attacked anyone on these boards, unless, like our new "Professor of BS" did, goes at it first.
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Yes I have been here a long time. I'm not saying I've seen everything, but I've seen alot. I post what I think, and what I've heard and read. You don't like, don't read it. There are a number of people that I really don't agree with, but I respect what they have to say. If you look back I've never personally attacked anyone on these boards, unless, like our new "Professor of BS" did, goes at it first.
With absolute honesty, that is the biggest load of complete BS I have ever read. YOU, my friend, made the smartazzed, personal attack after reading MY opinion. Now, that is an unprovoked personal attack, like it or not, agree with it or not....but don't act like you didn't do it.
And I quote, "This is NOT war, it's a game. If it WAS war we wouldn't have to read any more of your posts, because you would be dead". That certainly doesn't sound like someone that respects what others have to say. Its truly meaningless except for the fact that I don't really want anyone else buying what your selling with regard to how you view your good nature. Good day to you sir.
V/r
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Fug- It took me a while to see it myself, but you and several others have called it spot on for a long time now and you were all right.
I would not want to imagine how bad it would have been without the changes in effect, even with the challenges in place it only dampens the effects. HT keep doing what your doing.
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lol oh boy that i can atest to, many times while flying around i always keep my map open ( real big monitor so its no big deal to) ill see a town just start to flash i'll bail right away and go check it out, call out the Hordes coming and the Pigs come a running, next thing you know is theres one hella fight going on which can last as long as the Attackers want it to, most Hordes thou when they encounter anything over small resistance they'll go someplace else after you beat them back
:salute sir
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lol oh boy that i can atest to, many times while flying around i always keep my map open ( real big monitor so its no big deal to) ill see a town just start to flash i'll bail right away and go check it out, call out the Hordes coming and the Pigs come a running, next thing you know is theres one hella fight going on which can last as long as the Attackers want it to, most Hordes thou when they encounter anything over small resistance they'll go someplace else after you beat them back
Thanks Zoom. :salute
BJ, what to say? You have always had a soft spot for the Pigs haven't ya? :rolleyes:
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Some time the changes are worst that the imbalance to some, but we all know we as a community can't keep the game fair and fun for all.
While it is true that HTC can't please all of the people all of the time, the ideal is to make the game fair and fun for as many people as possible. Base takers should have the right to pursue happiness. The town changes, in my opinion, are enough to slow down base takes without super low dar.
You don't like, don't read it.
How would one know whether or not they like it if they don't read it?
You have always had a soft spot for the Pigs haven't ya? :rolleyes:
I found a spot for a good ham on my Thanksgiving table.
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Thanks Zoom. :salute
BJ, what to say? You have always had a soft spot for the Pigs haven't ya? :rolleyes:
you nits all stick together ;)
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I like bacon!
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NOEs are killing this game??? A bit of an over statement, don't ya think??
I find it absolutley hysterical that guys are trying to make it seem like NOEs were happening incessently all over the maps every day 24/7. We ALL know that is nowhere near the truth
And of course you always hear the "avoiding fights" comments, which imho are the most hypocritical statements I've ever seen on these boards.
Should of logged on the weekend prior to the first radar changes. Was literaly a "wack a mole" night. Was getting beyond ridiculous weeks before. I understand your squad advocates chesspiece loyalty, but before you start jumping on the bandwagon on how your fun was taken away from you, try seing the results of your actions. Switch sides and see what the recieving end goes through.
I understand ALL countries horde or NOE smash grab, but honestly it gets agrevating when 50 guys are off sneaking the map while another part is getting smashed.
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Should of logged on the weekend prior to the first radar changes. Was literaly a "wack a mole" night. Was getting beyond ridiculous weeks before. I understand your squad advocates chesspiece loyalty, but before you start jumping on the bandwagon on how your fun was taken away from you, try seing the results of your actions. Switch sides and see what the recieving end goes through.
I understand ALL countries horde or NOE smash grab, but honestly it gets agrevating when 50 guys are off sneaking the map while another part is getting smashed.
Personally, i couldn't care less if "50" guys are off somewhere "sneaking" the map.
If some guys are trying to "sneak" a couple base 20 sectors from the action, how does that affect gameplay? Defend it or quit whining about it.
I've seen the "whack a mole" nights of which you speak, it happens every now and then, the sky isn't falling.
And what does my squads "chess piece loyalty" have to do with anything?
And finally---what exactly are the results of my "actions"
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Personally, i couldn't care less if "50" guys are off somewhere "sneaking" the map.
If some guys are trying to "sneak" a couple base 20 sectors from the action, how does that affect gameplay? Defend it or quit whining about it.
I've seen the "whack a mole" nights of which you speak, it happens every now and then, the sky isn't falling.
And what does my squads "chess piece loyalty" have to do with anything?
And finally---what exactly are the results of my "actions"
I dont have a horse in this race, except I like "whack a mole" night...that ensures a fight, everywhere that damn ole mole sticks his head up...just sayin :salute
+1
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The stupidity
The stupidity of a post like this thread .
The OP makes a valid point shared by 100s of players over the past months.Now looks like he is here for 2nd time in 2 years and you call his post "stupid"?
You know what Mrs "BB Queen" ; you are very brave on BB just a timid # in MA, and your typical long ,dry,hysterical, boring post #5961 proves nothing more than rude arrogance and a boring life wasted on BB.
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While it is true that HTC can't please all of the people all of the time, the ideal is to make the game fair and fun for as many people as possible. Base takers should have the right to pursue happiness. The town changes, in my opinion, are enough to slow down base takes without super low dar..
I agree 150%, but perhaps that is what is intended? HTC hasn't taken away the ability to capture a town, they have just made it a bit more difficult and time consuming. Yes this can take the "fun" away from those players that want nothing to do with combat, but want to just take bases. If that was the only "fun" that was keeping those people here, they are missing out on a whole lot of game.
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I dont have a horse in this race, except I like "whack a mole" night...that ensures a fight, everywhere that damn ole mole sticks his head up...just sayin :salute
+1
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Not real sure what this whack a mole is, but as long as it doesn't require me climbing to 15k to chase guys that are avoiding fights,while ducking guys that are diving down from 20k, I'm in!! :cheers:
:salute
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NOE's were running rampant (and still are at times, just log on when orange has an "island" map. You can try to follow the "Jokers" around that map as they NOE first one side and then the other of the map.) and HTC lowered the radar to 65 feet.
I have no idea what you are going on about, but, the squad has changed a lot over time. We rarely run missions anymore and just about never NOE. No NOE's since long before the summer change to 65 feet. One of the more regular country mission runners got upset with a few in the squad recently when he called NOE and they basically said "screw that", and climbed in.
An occasional mission yes, 1 or 2 every couple of weeks, maybe ... the focus has changed as people evolve.
Mission running in general is a lot less frequent recently on the Bish side of the map at least. No shortage of calls for them of course ... but a lot less actually being run.
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I have no idea what you are going on about, but, the squad has changed a lot over time. We rarely run missions anymore and just about never NOE. No NOE's since long before the summer change to 65 feet. One of the more regular country mission runners got upset with a few in the squad recently when he called NOE and they basically said "screw that", and climbed in.
An occasional mission yes, 1 or 2 every couple of weeks, maybe ... the focus has changed as people evolve.
Mission running in general is a lot less frequent recently on the Bish side of the map at least. No shortage of calls for them of course ... but a lot less actually being run.
There are just plain too many factors now in a base capture to interest the casual mission joiner to participate. Mission planner usage is probably at its lowest. Chances of completing a capture using the mission planner is probably lower. These are just a few side effects of the slope of changes that were pointed towards "E Z mode" base defense.
E Z mode base defense:
- 10 min ticker. After all ack and town buildings are confirmed down, I estimate about 10 mins left to pour 10 troops into the maproom before something pops up
- Airfield and Vehicle base hangars have been either increased or positioned to take more passes to disable local defense
- Disabled hangars repair in 1/3 of the time that it takes for town to be completely leveled
- Increased radar sensitivity, alerts defenders earlier, allowing time for reinforcements from nearby bases
- Inability for ground units to confirm town status 100% down wastes troops and valuable 10 min ticker time
- Greater number of town objects to be destroyed, requiring a larger and longer lasting force
- Decreased contrast between destroyed town buildings and intact structures
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The OP makes a valid point shared by 100s of players over the past months.Now looks like he is here for 2nd time in 2 years and you call his post "stupid"?
You know what Mrs "BB Queen" ; you are very brave on BB just a timid # in MA, and your typical long ,dry,hysterical, boring post #5961 proves nothing more than rude arrogance and a boring life wasted on BB.
Well said Ghi....he seems to enjoy long posts that don't advance a discussion but seem to always say a version of "too bad, soo sad...deal with it"...I find it easier to skip and read the next post....lots of folks like this in real life...i fire them and find folks interested in solutions that work....cant do that here :cry
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I have no idea what you are going on about, but, the squad has changed a lot over time. We rarely run missions anymore and just about never NOE. No NOE's since long before the summer change to 65 feet. One of the more regular country mission runners got upset with a few in the squad recently when he called NOE and they basically said "screw that", and climbed in.
An occasional mission yes, 1 or 2 every couple of weeks, maybe ... the focus has changed as people evolve.
Mission running in general is a lot less frequent recently on the Bish side of the map at least. No shortage of calls for them of course ... but a lot less actually being run.
Because there is no point....any true base take needs to be a form of a horde...there is no "sneakiness" left....there is no point to an noe imho....you still need overwhelming force to kill the monster town and try to hold off any uppers...much better to send a bunch of b-17s and close the base down and then kill the town...
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Not real sure what this whack a mole is, but as long as it doesn't require me climbing to 15k to chase guys that are avoiding fights,while ducking guys that are diving down from 20k, I'm in!! :cheers:
:salute
Ahhh, then you are IN! W A M is when the horde keeps popping up in different places on the map and you and I spend our time chasing down the next base to defend..., lmao...I actually have a lot of fun doing it...usually the horde is bombing the hell out of the base so generally, no alt required!!
Changeup
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The OP makes a valid point shared by 100s of players over the past months.Now looks like he is here for 2nd time in 2 years and you call his post "stupid"?
You know what Mrs "BB Queen" ; you are very brave on BB just a timid # in MA, and your typical long ,dry,hysterical, boring post #5961 proves nothing more than rude arrogance and a boring life wasted on BB.
:salute
V/r
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I've been playing this game for about a year now ...........
The OP makes a valid point shared by 100s of players over the past months.Now looks like he is here for 2nd time in 2 years and you call his post "stupid"?
You know what Mrs "BB Queen" ; you are very brave on BB just a timid # in MA, and your typical long ,dry,hysterical, boring post #5961 proves nothing more than rude arrogance and a boring life wasted on BB.
The OP has only been playing for a year, where do you get 2 Yrs from?
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The OP makes a valid point shared by 100s of players over the past months.Now looks like he is here for 2nd time in 2 years and you call his post "stupid"?
You know what Mrs "BB Queen" ; you are very brave on BB just a timid # in MA, and your typical long ,dry,hysterical, boring post #5961 proves nothing more than rude arrogance and a boring life wasted on BB.
Yes his post was stupid. What he should have done if he had a complaint is he should have contacted HTC directly. By posting on these boards he has opened the discussion to everyone. He will get valid replies, flames and even post like yours where you do nothing but attack me personally. I'll stop my post now, heaven forbid I should run over my letter limit.
Well said Ghi....he seems to enjoy long posts that don't advance a discussion but seem to always say a version of "too bad, soo sad...deal with it"...I find it easier to skip and read the next post....lots of folks like this in real life...i fire them and find folks interested in solutions that work....cant do that here :cry
...and this from someone who says he doesn't even play any more. I'm all for looking for and executing solutions to problems. I've even suggested a number of solutions to taking base for those who know only how to do it with a horde or NOE. You on the other hand come in here and suggest I type too much, great solution.
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...and this from someone who says he doesn't even play any more.
:rofl Nothing worse than someone throwing a beer bottle from the back of the room and they have no idea what is going on in the front row...... :rofl
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:rofl Nothing worse than someone throwing a beer bottle from the back of the room and they have no idea what is going on in the front row...... :rofl
Your analogy = FAIL :O But then I have no idea who you are or if you even play this game...at least the other posters are folks I recognize????
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time to adjust your meds falconweenie
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time to adjust your meds falconweenie
wow you can call names.... :huh
BTW i tend to find that those who think others need medicines are usually the ones taking them themselves... :rolleyes:
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THC does have medicinal purposes :banana:
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THC does have medicinal purposes :banana:
That's what my card says too :D
ack-ack
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Personally, i couldn't care less if "50" guys are off somewhere "sneaking" the map.
If some guys are trying to "sneak" a couple base 20 sectors from the action, how does that affect gameplay? Defend it or quit whining about it.
I've seen the "whack a mole" nights of which you speak, it happens every now and then, the sky isn't falling.
And what does my squads "chess piece loyalty" have to do with anything?
And finally---what exactly are the results of my "actions"
You do care, you obviously have this myoptic view on how the game that if you are not out sneaking real estate, that you are cruising at 20k "mindlessly furballing" like possesed zombies. There is more to this game besides racing to reset the map.
Come out of your shell and realize that a good portion of the playerbase here does not log on and care what the state of the map is. Most of the time, they will log in trying to get thier fix with a sortie or 2. How does this affect gameplay?
You have 60 freindlies in your arena at one time. 20 of them go off to sneak some portion of the map, now you just took 30% of the population and hidden them out of sight, during which that guy that logs on cruises the map looking for something to happen.
Meanwhile dar bar pops and blobs of red are inbound to some other part of the map and you ask that everyone bails out of their sortie in less than 2 minutes so they can up to defend this horde that more than likely has 5000 troops running before you go gear up. ..HOW FUN!!
Chesspiece loyalty has alot to do with it. Try being on the recieving end of it. NOE had to of been the gamiest cowardly tactic this game has had. So gamey that these guys that joined these missions, once having to defend them would call them gamey themselves when the tactic was used on them.
It degrades the game, and YES..IT WAS BAD FOR GAMEPLAY..hence why its gone!!!!!
Up and defend against them? That is what is happening now. What do you think is the reason why all the cries and whines are about?
Quit the game because you cant do this anymore? I dont mean to be unsympathetic, but screw them guys. If you started this game today, no complaints are going to be made that you cant sneak anything..you will just adapt to another system if basetaking is your game. These cryers will just die off and we will be fighting off the next thing that gets exploited.
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NOE had to of been the gamiest cowardly tactic this game has had. So gamey that these guys that joined these missions, once having to defend them would call them gamey themselves when the tactic was used on them.
It degrades the game, and YES..IT WAS BAD FOR GAMEPLAY..hence why its gone!!!!!
Up and defend against them? That is what is happening now. What do you think is the reason why all the cries and whines are about?
NOE a cowardly tactic.. so all those pilots that engaed in NOW missions during wars , and yes they did happen ( just look at the dam busters raid for instance, lancasters flew so low on those raids that some hit high tension cables) were they all cowards too?
Then your next two sentences contradict each other, in the first NOE is gone and in the second you imply people are upping and defending against NOE's and whines are coming from that fact... How the heck can people up and defend against NOE attacks if they are gone from the game??
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THC does have medicinal purposes :banana:
Hehe you actually made me smile :aok
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You do care, you obviously have this myoptic view on how the game that if you are not out sneaking real estate, that you are cruising at 20k "mindlessly furballing" like possesed zombies. There is more to this game besides racing to reset the map.
Come out of your shell and realize that a good portion of the playerbase here does not log on and care what the state of the map is. Most of the time, they will log in trying to get thier fix with a sortie or 2. How does this affect gameplay?
You have 60 freindlies in your arena at one time. 20 of them go off to sneak some portion of the map, now you just took 30% of the population and hidden them out of sight, during which that guy that logs on cruises the map looking for something to happen.
Meanwhile dar bar pops and blobs of red are inbound to some other part of the map and you ask that everyone bails out of their sortie in less than 2 minutes so they can up to defend this horde that more than likely has 5000 troops running before you go gear up. ..HOW FUN!!
Chesspiece loyalty has alot to do with it. Try being on the recieving end of it. NOE had to of been the gamiest cowardly tactic this game has had. So gamey that these guys that joined these missions, once having to defend them would call them gamey themselves when the tactic was used on them.
It degrades the game, and YES..IT WAS BAD FOR GAMEPLAY..hence why its gone!!!!!
Up and defend against them? That is what is happening now. What do you think is the reason why all the cries and whines are about?
Quit the game because you cant do this anymore? I dont mean to be unsympathetic, but screw them guys. If you started this game today, no complaints are going to be made that you cant sneak anything..you will just adapt to another system if basetaking is your game. These cryers will just die off and we will be fighting off the next thing that gets exploited.
NOE was one of the most cowardly game tactics?? LOL
And if you paid ANY attention to what I had written., you would have seen that i DO NOT sneak bases myself---I am missing defending against guys who do!!
You seem to use every moronic cliche' that is incessently used on these BBs to try and tell me how I and others play.
Chess piece loyalty!! LMAO!!!
You're a pretty funny guy.
No really.
PS. Guys at 20k aren't there to "furball".
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Wish I had a <Face Palm> image handy.
What you are saying in essence is make the game easier, in particular base taking, or you are gonna take your ball and go home?
Might I suggest trying some other aspects of the game? Might want to challenge yourself is something like....say....Air Combat? There can be some real immediate satisfaction from winning a good dogfight.
If that's not your kinda thing, maybe hop in a GV and try some tank to tank combat? Again the satisfaction might come from defeating another individual player or six in an armor battle.
If that doesn't work, you might imagine yourself a wartime bomber pilot. Load up your bomber of choice and go deep to see how accurate you can drop your bombs. Pretend you are going to Berlin in your 17s. You could fight off enemy fighters enroute, put your bombs in the 'pickle barrel" and fight your way home, landing your damaged bomber knowing you've fought the good fight and your crew has lived to fight another day.
Might want to consider becoming Captain Qbert USN if it so fits. Bombard shore targets, get the ack up to fight off an incoming raid on your ships and maybe even engage in a surface battle against another fleet. Just think. Maybe you can 'cross the T' and wipe out the other guys ships.
Oh the possibilities! :)
That or take your ball and go home. It is just a game after all
He could have done all of that BEFORE the lame change. I used to practice bombing, now I only play because I have my squad. If I didn't care about those guys so much and eating the souls of fighters who TRY to shoot down my 17's I would quit. After being deployed and coming back to the change....I wanna go back to Afghanistan. Brace on and all. Sitting at the house all wrapped up means the only thing I CAN do is play AH...
btw the dogfight thing you mentioned - it used to be called a furball....or have you forgotten already?
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MarineUS :salute
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I didn't read all 26 pages of this tread but I was just wondering: Is there a civil(forum) war going on in there? Or is it just a fight between two guys?... Or is there a fight at all? :confused:
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I didn't read all 26 pages of this tread but I was just wondering: Is there a civil(forum) war going on in there? Or is it just a fight between two guys?... Or is there a fight at all? :confused:
Canadian? :rofl
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NOE a cowardly tactic.. so all those pilots that engaed in NOW missions during wars , and yes they did happen ( just look at the dam busters raid for instance, lancasters flew so low on those raids that some hit high tension cables) were they all cowards too?
Then your next two sentences contradict each other, in the first NOE is gone and in the second you imply people are upping and defending against NOE's and whines are coming from that fact... How the heck can people up and defend against NOE attacks if they are gone from the game??
You are obviously new. Do a quick search and learn the difference between real life war and sitting comfortably on your computer chair.
Second, Im not contradicting myself. When NOEs were running rampant in the MAs, their responses were "if you dont like NOEs, then defend them".
The change has now made it possible that defenders are given a choice due to the fact that more than likely it will be spotted faster than the old method
Understand that too much of one thing is bad. We need to realize that the only way to a great gaming enviorment is to have a nice balance of everything. Sometimes what we like is really not the best thing for us. True we may have some people quitting because we took away thier fun, but ask yourself in the longrun if anything wasnt done to help fix it..we might of lost a huge amount more.
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[quote author=oTRALFZo link=topic=300544.msg3859444#msg3859444 date=1290959469
When NOEs were running rampant in the MAs, their responses were "if you dont like NOEs, then defend them".
[/quote]
And what would be wrong with that response?
It reminds me of the responses you hear when people would complain about vulching (don't up at that base), spawn campers (then don't spawn into them) etc.etc.
Personally, I find vulching (when not taking a base) to be the most cowardly type of game play, and yet it is whole heartedly endorsed by this games creator.
Again the most idiotic hypocrosy rears its moronic head.
Noes and "land grabbers" have ALWAYS been the red headed step child in this game, "and by God we're going to do something about it", and they have, at every turn.
And I've said it before--you could put big flashing arrows pointing at the "flashing" base and guys still won't stop and defend against it.
But they'll loudly complain about it all day long.
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It was a sorry game play yesterday. I bombed some things both in my 38 and B24's, Helped defend a number of base, once even getting kills in a wirble. Rooks won the war and we had a map reset. Switched to the Blue arena and had some great fights 1on 1 and 2 on 1. Some I won, some I lost, others were a tie (get you next time Deuce!). Fights wound down, and switched back to Orange ran a few more buff runs and had a few more fights.
All in all it was 7-8 hours of pure hell! WTG Hitech Creations!
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[quote author=oTRALFZo link=topic=300544.msg3859444#msg3859444 date=1290959469
When NOEs were running rampant in the MAs, their responses were "if you dont like NOEs, then defend them".
And what would be wrong with that response?
It reminds me of the responses you hear when people would complain about vulching (don't up at that base), spawn campers (then don't spawn into them) etc.etc.
Personally, I find vulching (when not taking a base) to be the most cowardly type of game play, and yet it is whole heartedly endorsed by this games creator.
Again the most idiotic hypocrosy rears its moronic head.
Noes and "land grabbers" have ALWAYS been the red headed step child in this game, "and by God we're going to do something about it", and they have, at every turn.
And I've said it before--you could put big flashing arrows pointing at the "flashing" base and guys still won't stop and defend against it.
But they'll loudly complain about it all day long.
In some cases, vulching is incidental to trying to keep the base capped for a capture. It sucks but it happens to keep the fighters from killing the troops and gvs. One thing I try to do if I can't get up at the horded base is get up out of one close by and come in high...usually makes for good fights and the vulchers then get picked. Fair is fair right? Try it...its good fun when you can find a buddy to go with you.
Changeup
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In some cases, vulching is incidental to trying to keep the base capped for a capture. It sucks but it happens to keep the fighters from killing the troops and gvs. One thing I try to do if I can't get up at the horded base is get up out of one close by and come in high...usually makes for good fights and the vulchers then get picked. Fair is fair right? Try it...its good fun when you can find a buddy to go with you.
Changeup
I think thats what i said. :salute
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You are obviously new. Do a quick search and learn the difference between real life war and sitting comfortably on your computer chair.
Roflmao.. Obviously new?? not on your nelly pal.. I may have taken a break and started a new account upon my return but I first started playing this game 8 freaking years ago.
I dont need to do a search to know the difference between real war and playing games, I've an Uncle who recently left the REME and have lost several relatives in real wars, including one in an NOE mission.I have friends who have lost limbs fighting in Ireland.
And yes you did contradict yourself, first you said NOE's were OUT OF THE GAME and then you say people can up and defend against them, if that isnt a contradiction then what the hell is??
And if you had bothered to read my other posts in this thread you would have realised that I DO apreciate that too much of one thing is bad and that a balance is needed.But meh, your just another one thats not worth arguing with.
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I think thats what i said. :salute
cc....guilty of reading your post a little too quick. IN
Changeup
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Rooks won the war and we had a map reset.
i thought that was impossible now. :D
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Rooks won the war and we had a map reset.
Onward to victory, brothers! :airplane:
-Penguin
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MarineUS :salute
:salute Delta7
I just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in on his post :P
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He could have done all of that BEFORE the lame change. I used to practice bombing, now I only play because I have my squad. If I didn't care about those guys so much and eating the souls of fighters who TRY to shoot down my 17's I would quit. After being deployed and coming back to the change....I wanna go back to Afghanistan. Brace on and all. Sitting at the house all wrapped up means the only thing I CAN do is play AH...
btw the dogfight thing you mentioned - it used to be called a furball....or have you forgotten already?
My point exactly. The change hasn't impacted at all on his options. There is nothing he can't do now that he could do previously
It's a good thing we have you here to make sure HTC knows how to run their company :)
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It was a sorry game play yesterday. I bombed some things both in my 38 and B24's, Helped defend a number of base, once even getting kills in a wirble. Rooks won the war and we had a map reset. Switched to the Blue arena and had some great fights 1on 1 and 2 on 1. Some I won, some I lost, others were a tie (get you next time Deuce!). Fights wound down, and switched back to Orange ran a few more buff runs and had a few more fights.
All in all it was 7-8 hours of pure hell! WTG Hitech Creations!
Nice, I am glad that you had fun. I am assuming that you did all of this during OFF hours game play. Oh, and nice job helping to capture A15 (yes, I was there and you were instrumental). Although, it was less than a sector away from Rook HQ, and bombers were tearing up strats and zeroing in on doing the same to HQ, I was informed that Bishops had held that field all day.
This is what the OP and others here have been referring to. Changes that allow a base to be so heavily defended that once it is captured (even deep into enemy territory) , it only takes a small force to defend, while attacking resources have to be efficiently organized and heavily manned. The balance is OFF.
Yes, I do enjoy this game..... Yes, it is fun...... But there are times like yesterday, that prove a point. If you care nothing about repeatedly loosing dar for entire country both friendly and enemy, you keep battling away in Tank Town with your buds and have a blast (radar means little to you in such a battle). Your prospective about having fun will be different from those who time and again are turned away from the maproom because one hidden object has not been discovered, and the ticker has run out.
Furthermore, putting on rose colored glasses and seeing only the good points, is not a healthy approach for development. Recent evidence of reduction in base capture does not necessarily mean there is a reduction in those interested in capturing bases. It is good to know what your player base is interested in. Not as important what your player base thinks of each other.
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The game is still fun....the fun times are fewer and further apart though.
My question is..when is HTC releasing the Console version of AHII, cuz that's the way this game is headed.
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But meh, your just another one thats not worth arguing with.
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/redferrarigirl/oh_snap.gif)
Well I could just whine and threaten to quit like Snail ,and remind people I did so. :D Seriously the new cap idea already needs a makeover! :rolleyes:
I do think it's cute to see Euro players now crying about uncapped arenas. That just made my day TY! :rofl
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The game is still fun....the fun times are fewer and further apart though.
My question is..when is HTC releasing the Console version of AHII, cuz that's the way this game is headed.
don't even joke like that......the squeakers are already bad enough...do not wish this one us!
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don't even joke like that......the squeakers are already bad enough...do not wish this one us!
Posted that tongue in cheek, certainly don't want or wish it.
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don't even joke like that......the squeakers are already bad enough...do not wish this one us!
circle-circle-square-triangle/shift= unlimited ammo!
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circle-circle-square-triangle/shift= unlimited ammo!
I thought it was ^,up up, v ,downdown <left >right <left >right, AB AB select start! :D
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It's B then A before Select (for 2 players) & start...
Contra FTW
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(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/redferrarigirl/oh_snap.gif)
Well I could just whine and threaten to quit like Snail ,and remind people I did so. :D Seriously the new cap idea already needs a makeover! :rolleyes:
I do think it's cute to see Euro players now crying about uncapped arenas. That just made my day TY! :rofl
Ermm where the heck was I crying about anything? I couldnt give a toss if arenas are capped or not, I just hate the off peak/peak BS to be honest. Oh and why the heck should I care if you whine or not, so far as I'm aware the post you quoted wasnt even directed at you , unless of course your Tralfz displaying symptons of an identity crisis, which i doubt....bored much were you?
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It's about time for a group hug (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/smiley-eatdrink014.gif)
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Ermm where the heck was I crying about anything? I couldnt give a toss if arenas are capped or not, I just hate the off peak/peak BS to be honest. Oh and why the heck should I care if you whine or not, so far as I'm aware the post you quoted wasnt even directed at you , unless of course your Tralfz displaying symptons of an identity crisis, which i doubt....bored much were you?
That is the longest run-on sentence I have seen today. (but the day is young)
:aok :aok
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blame lack of caffiene lol
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(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/AwesomeThread.jpg)
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+1
Couldn't agree more.
Bases are too difficult to take in a global strategic sense. Yeah, it can be done, but it requires too many people and too much time to be worth a damn on a map sized for 2000 players.
Bases used to be very easy to capture but what many of you here fail to understand is how that promoted a goal oriented game. Players could actually make an impact in the war with just a couple friends. Heck me and bipolar used to try and sneak bases just the two of us from time to time and it was a blast. Sometimes a few of us muppets would NOE raid a base deep into enemy territory and then defend the hell out of it and call it an "Alamo Mission". That part of the game is dead.
Another failure of this game is to tie in the size of the map to the difficulty of capturing a base. How many large maps have been won since the newest town updates? You get one week to win a war(before the cap update anyway)...I highly doubt a large map has been won, in fact I doubt a large map hasn't even been close to being won.
Not a very organized post, but just a few random thoughts regarding how the new towns have negatively effected the game.
Grizz,
I hope no one hires the OP in the near term to write political speeches, he has some home work to do on how to lucidly sell his arguments to an audience. But, as Crash pointed out more clearly the "Spirit" of his emotionaly charged observations are on the money.
Given a choice in voting for Pope between a reformed Attilla the Hun or Bambi I would pick Attilla. At least he knows from experience both sides of the argument. So Grizz.......
I suggested in another thread that HiTech might want to loosen the NOE restrictions a wee bit to help the goal oriented players. The previous usage of NOE was out of control and a detrament to the game. I think the current restrictions on it are keeping new players from taking part in missions which used to be a reasonabley secure way for them to build the confidence to move on to more exciting and risky game play activities.
Have you finished mulling over your "How to Save the Game Play" Opus and could share with us yet?
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circle-circle-square-triangle/shift= unlimited ammo!
That's odd I was told it was Alt F4
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Grizz,
I hope no one hires the OP in the near term to write political speeches, he has some home work to do on how to lucidly sell his arguments to an audience. But, as Crash pointed out more clearly the "Spirit" of his emotionaly charged observations are on the money.
Given a choice in voting for Pope between a reformed Attilla the Hun or Bambi I would pick Attilla. At least he knows from experience both sides of the argument. So Grizz.......
I suggested in another thread that HiTech might want to loosen the NOE restrictions a wee bit to help the goal oriented players. The previous usage of NOE was out of control and a detrament to the game. I think the current restrictions on it are keeping new players from taking part in missions which used to be a reasonabley secure way for them to build the confidence to move on to more exciting and risky game play activities.
Have you finished mulling over your "How to Save the Game Play" Opus and could share with us yet?
I have not, and will not have time for another 2 weeks(no pun intended) to give it organized thought. I will though!
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Thank you Sir...... :salute
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(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/AwesomeThread.jpg)
This thread may in fact now be Incredibly Awesome, but it still needs more RPG Raptors on Sharks!!!!1!!1
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/5186917068_5586abe14f.jpg)
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This thread may in fact now be Incredibly Awesome, but it still needs more RPG Raptors on Sharks!!!!1!!1
:O
...I had thought I had been through the internet, and seen the most awesome things ever in the f14 tyrannosaur and this:
(http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/awesome2.jpg)
But now I'm having trouble deciding... The raptor on the shark IS pretty awesome...
Wiley.
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Even more awesome.....
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/cga/lowres/cgan1402l.jpg)