Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: captain1ma on April 11, 2008, 07:22:12 AM
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can we have rules of engagement for the new scenario??? i know im planning on putting out a directive for rules of engagement for the axis side.
would the Allieds be willing to comply or atleast compromise a set of rules of engagement??
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can we have rules of engagement for the new scenario??? i know im planning on putting out a directive for rules of engagement for the axis side.
would the Allieds be willing to comply or atleast compromise a set of rules of engagement??
i am willing to bet they would agree to a set of rules, it's just getting them to follow it. :aok
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what we need is a method of enforcement! booted from squad?? booted from arena?? something. maybe make a wall of shame??
the other side of it is that its not 100% enforceable. even i ho and vulch once in awhile. we just need to figure out a way to keep it to a minimum.
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that will never happen, ever.I was in there last night with a few friends, so we decide to attack A-60 in thunderbolts.We go mover there with a bomb on thinking they are taking this base or trying to....NOT!
I witnessed 10 Allies Vs. 3 maybe 4 Axis and the Allies were hoing every one of them, even while they outnumbered the Axis, which so looked like the MA.The only reason i say something about the MA is that while my squaddies and i were outnumbered by the axis in the weeds fighting the FB/68th guys just watched and waited for the Axis to not be looking.And even though they outnumbered the Axis by 2 to 1, the Allies still got it handed to them, i know this because in one flight for myself i saw the other Allies uppping atleast 3 times in my one flight.
highlight of the night was when one of the FB's complained he got HO'ed by one of the Fw-190's :rofl :rofl
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yeah i know, i was on last night. 30 seconds off the ground and i got ho'd from 1k out. probably my fault but i had no intent on shooting until i died. if we could limit this dweebish behavior, which is what i'm working on, we could make it a better place. if i had my way, AVA would be by invitation only. then you can get the best of the best in there and leave the animals to play in the MA's
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I was in the arena for a few minutes last night, had some things to do with the kids so I didn't get to stay on long. I had time for one flight. I went to whatever base was being attacked. The town was down. 10 allied, 3-4 axis players. I was just looking for a quick fight. 190 ran into the ack 4 times, tried a HO pass, on the 2nd HO pass, I HOd him back. Its just part of the game. Axis run into there ack as much as allieds do. Axis HO as much as the allied do. I see it day in and day out. From now on, for me anyways, If my opponent even looks like he is thinking of a HO pass, I will HO him. If he runs into the ack, I will chase him. If I am at a disadvantage, I will run into the Ack, I will HO, I will do whatever I need to.
Rules of engagement will not work, because then you have to depend on the integrity of the individual, and sadly it has been my experience that most just dont have any.
My .02 and observations, nothing more.
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i understand that, and thats why im asking everyone to consider rules of engagement. i think its a necessary thing. i know that some people arent going to play by the rules but, if most of them do, we could probably get some of the better players back in there. i need everyones help on this.
question again: would you be willing to play more in AVA if there is a set rules of engagement, even if a few, not everyone, but a just a few, broke the rules??
id rather have everyone play by the rules, but we dont live in a perfect world. this is the best i can do!
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i understand that, and thats why im asking everyone to consider rules of engagement. i think its a necessary thing. i know that some people arent going to play by the rules but, if most of them do, we could probably get some of the better players back in there. i need everyones help on this.
question again: would you be willing to play more in AVA if there is a set rules of engagement, even if a few, not everyone, but a just a few, broke the rules??
id rather have everyone play by the rules, but we dont live in a perfect world. this is the best i can do!
i will play by the rules, if there were any.
and for Gaidin, i feel ya on that note.But they do the same crap to me and i still WILL NOT ho shoot or ack run no matter what they do, i still won't do it.
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what about the ones who do not read this forum. I think trying to set rules is a good idea but a waste of effort. so I say "Rules we don't need no stinking rules!"
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oh and Captain 1ma I miss your little propaganda report, very inspiring to us allies. please start back
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The problem is, many dont even know the difference between a defelction shot and a HO. Many dont understand the differnece between vulching and supressing the opposition during a capture. I have been accused of Hoing when it was a deflection shot....on Monday night, I came down at an angle and took the shot. Even if he wanted to shoot back he wouldnt have had a shot. This was not a HO, but sure enough he siad "nice HO" on the buffer. And, again, call it vulching if you want.....but why should I let a spit get up from a field if I have 3 c47's about to drop troops over the town? How do I know that all that spit is looking for is a fight? My guess will be that he is on his way to shoot the troops as is expected in this arena....and if he is smart, he will not grab but instaed make a run straight to the town...which most of us would do. So by the time I realize that the spit is not looking for a fight but instead is looking to kill the troops, he is halfway there and my mission to supress the opposition has all but failed. Simple solution....if you are looking for a fight, dont up a field that has the town being hit.
I dont know...I just dont get some of you guys and your complaints.
Raptor33
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oh and Captain 1ma I miss your little propaganda report, very inspiring to us allies. please start back
what and create more hate and discontent?? hehehe
Listen guys, i know both sides are doing whatever they want. so lets bring everyone in line with a set of rules. it has to start at the CO level and work down. even individual players. i have no problem with rogue player but they just have to play by rules we set. as for people that dont read the forums, if we could eject them, we could make sure they read the rules first.
people are going to break the rules once in awhile, i do it, everyone does it. thats fine, but if someone always does it, then we nail em. we need everyone to help with this. commanders, XO's, and players alike.
we need enforcement to the point where if you're a ho'er, you're off the squad. its that simple. if we could get the AVA to be invitation only, that would take care of alot of the rogue player problems.
then we could all abide by a finite set of rules.
I know, i know, its everyones $15 dollars. thats fine. you want to pay, go play in the MA and do your thing. In the AVA its a special place with special rules. deal with it or be banished. thats my thoughts.
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The problem is, many dont even know the difference between a defelction shot and a HO. Many dont understand the differnece between vulching and supressing the opposition during a capture. I have been accused of Hoing when it was a deflection shot....on Monday night, I came down at an angle and took the shot. Even if he wanted to shoot back he wouldnt have had a shot. This was not a HO, but sure enough he siad "nice HO" on the buffer. And, again, call it vulching if you want.....but why should I let a spit get up from a field if I have 3 c47's about to drop troops over the town? How do I know that all that spit is looking for is a fight? My guess will be that he is on his way to shoot the troops as is expected in this arena....and if he is smart, he will not grab but instaed make a run straight to the town...which most of us would do. So by the time I realize that the spit is not looking for a fight but instead is looking to kill the troops, he is halfway there and my mission to supress the opposition has all but failed. Simple solution....if you are looking for a fight, dont up a field that has the town being hit.
I dont know...I just dont get some of you guys and your complaints.
Raptor33
i understand what you're saying raptor, but this next scenario is different, there will be NO base taking! take that out of the equation, now would you be willing to not vulch or HO, mind you i'm not accusing you but rather asking you??
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for raising the issue Jaeger but I think rules would cause more bad feelings. I thought there were these rules when I started playing and I got extremely frustrated as even long time AvA players were making exceptions to these rules. I personally try to avoid HOing, vulching, etc but don't expect it from others. It makes it easier to accept when it happens.
Venom
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i understand what you're saying raptor, but this next scenario is different, there will be NO base taking! take that out of the equation, now would you be willing to not vulch or HO, mind you i'm not accusing you but rather asking you??
If there is no base taking, a vulch and a HO is a waste of time. Let me say thios....it takes too darn long for me to fly from base A to base B for me to fly in cirlces to get a kill or two. I have better things to do with my time...I take no pride in getting a kill by vulching...i take pride in my success as it pertains to my assignement of a mission. No offense to those that may take this a little more serious than I do....but you guys are cartoons on my computer......to get a cheap kill is completely meaningless to me.....as a matter of fact, if the arena did not allow for "objectives" I dont think I would even be in there. I am a 50 year old guy that loves to play war. Sad but true. I am not a 50 year old guy that has his wife angry at him twice a week because he "plays that stupid game" as she likes to say, so I can walk around with my chest in the air because I can kill a cartoon figure.
No offense to those that fly for that reason.....just not what I prefer to do.
Raptor33
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Raptor, there will be objectives. Kill other planes, destroy strats, kill hangers. those are the objectives or some of them anyway.
based on those objectives would you be willing to limit Ho'ing, vulching to near zero?? is killing planes and a good fight your thing, or do you prefer base capture. they're trying to change the AVA. I want to know if people would be willing to abide by a set of rules of engagement to make it fun for everyone, not just a few!!
Venom, im trying to get these rules back in place and make people aware of it! would you enjoy it better if you didnt expect to get ho'ed or vulched... 99% of the time?
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Raptor, there will be objectives. Kill other planes, destroy strats, kill hangers. those are the objectives or some of them anyway.
based on those objectives would you be willing to limit Ho'ing, vulching to near zero?? is killing planes and a good fight your thing, or do you prefer base capture. they're trying to change the AVA. I want to know if people would be willing to abide by a set of rules of engagement to make it fun for everyone, not just a few!!
Venom, im trying to get these rules back in place and make people aware of it! would you enjoy it better if you didnt expect to get ho'ed or vulched... 99% of the time?
I am not sure how to answer without knowing exactly how the set up will be.....maybe it is best put this way.....if my mission requires me to vulch, I will do it. For example, if I have some Stukas on their way in to take out some hangars, and there is opposition rolling the runway...what should I do? Allow them to get alt? Let me give you a scenario.....we are taking out hangars at field A.....we must fly the stukas for 20 minutes from field B....with the escorts. As we approach, the opposition sees us on dar so they roll field A. They could have rolled field C to avoid a vulch, but that would have taken them 15 minutes...so they roll field A...I dont vulch them as it is frowned upon.....they get their alt and take out my stukas who have just wasted 20 minutes flying there without releasing a single egg....and all becuase I was not allowed to vulch them. Like I said, they cou;d have opted to up from field C but did not want to waste the time to fly for 15 minutes....so instead, my squaddies wated THEIR 20 minutes.
Furthermore.....what is the "fine line" of vulching to not vulching. Is gear up the line? 1000 feet altitude? Co-alt?
I trust you see my concern?
I am not trying to be difficult or adversarial....just showing you it is more complicated than it appears...I am open to anyone that can offer a better plan to make all happy.....
Raptor
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ok lets change the direction a bit. first im not sure of all the particulars but i do know, there will be NO base taking.
now if a bunch of stuka's were upping for a mission and i came upon them, id nail them too. its not vulching, its a pre-emptive strike. hehehe.
all i want to know is, and this goes out to everyone, would you be willing to play by a set of rules and not break them, unless necessary. yes i know that necessary is a fine line.
assuming that its not necessary and that all you will be involved in is air to air combat, would you be willing to play by rules of engagement. yes or no?
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For that matter, what's a HO? 1, 5, 10, or 30 degrees off nose? Will the enemy stay still while I take out my protractor?
Can I never be shot at if I up a zero and always keep my nose pointed at them?
Remember, YOU chose to point your nose at me. If I shoot you in the face, it's your fault. That said, there are a number of rational reasons to not HO:
1. Enemy is P-47, Mossie, Lightning, Bf 110, or other large aircraft with lots of forward guns.
2. You're a puny little fighter like a zero or 109 and can't afford to take a hit.
3. It's a large gamble. You're very likely to take damage in return.
I think there are enough reasons to not HO without some sort of rule set. In fact, having a set of rules will likely lead to more accusations and more whining. Who will settle the disputes? Will we need a court?
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ok lets change the direction a bit. first im not sure of all the particulars but i do know, there will be NO base taking.
now if a bunch of stuka's were upping for a mission and i came upon them, id nail them too. its not vulching, its a pre-emptive strike. hehehe.
all i want to know is, and this goes out to everyone, would you be willing to play by a set of rules and not break them, unless necessary. yes i know that necessary is a fine line.
assuming that its not necessary and that all you will be involved in is air to air combat, would you be willing to play by rules of engagement. yes or no?
My answer to that question is YES......as I said, I do not vulch unless it is necessary to the overall objective. As for the HO part.....I do not HO until I see tracer coming at me....but I personally usually try to make a move to avoid a co-alt pass.....unfortunately, it doesnt always work...
But, yes, unless necessary, I will never Vulch. Now....good luck defining "necessary" :)
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My answer to that question is YES......as I said, I do not vulch unless it is necessary to the overall objective. As for the HO part.....I do not HO until I see tracer coming at me....but I personally usually try to make a move to avoid a co-alt pass.....unfortunately, it doesnt always work...
But, yes, unless necessary, I will never Vulch. Now....good luck defining "necessary" :)
thanks man, We'll work on defining necessary after i get more people to offer to comply to rules of engagement first. one step at a time.
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thanks man, We'll work on defining necessary after i get more people to offer to comply to rules of engagement first. one step at a time.
Any help you need. let me know.
Rap
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For that matter, what's a HO? 1, 5, 10, or 30 degrees off nose? Will the enemy stay still while I take out my protractor?
Can I never be shot at if I up a zero and always keep my nose pointed at them?
Remember, YOU chose to point your nose at me. If I shoot you in the face, it's your fault. That said, there are a number of rational reasons to not HO:
1. Enemy is P-47, Mossie, Lightning, Bf 110, or other large aircraft with lots of forward guns.
2. You're a puny little fighter like a zero or 109 and can't afford to take a hit.
3. It's a large gamble. You're very likely to take damage in return.
I think there are enough reasons to not HO without some sort of rule set. In fact, having a set of rules will likely lead to more accusations and more whining. Who will settle the disputes? Will we need a court?
Wedge, would you be willing to comply with a set of rules that said you cant HO on the first pass?? im not saying you cant defend yourself. if both parties dont HO on the first pass, you atleast have a good shot to get behind him.
as for enforcement, we will work on that too. right now im just trying to get people to say, yes or no, they would comply with rules of engagement if they were in place.
so my question to you is, yes or no?
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I'm not opposed to following rules of engagement. I'm just saying that actual rules will need to be written carefully, and even then, will be abused by people. I don't mean someone occasionally breaking a rule. I mean people accusing others of constantly breaking the rules with no way of proving it.
Anyways, if a set of rules are agreed to, I will comply.
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i understand all of your concerns, right now i just want to know if you would be willing to comply if everyone else did!
thanks wedge, thats 2, only 500 more to go hehehe
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Yes, I would abide by them. No, I am not for the rules. I think rules that can't be enforced and are open to interpretation are not worth having. 200 has been very civil lately even with the HOing and vulching. I believe bickering over rules will lead to some very bad feelings and an ugly 200 and forum.
Now, if you could get a kill shooter option for a nose to nose shot against an enemy con or against a con on the runsway .... problem solved. :aok
Venom
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Aces High II was designed by an Air Warrior. Have you ever played Air Warrior? AWII/III was coded to give the player roughly a fifteen degree "cone of reduced lethality" from incoming fire on the nose. That meant all incoming on their forward arc (cone) up to a fifteen degree deflection had it's lethality reduced by over ninety percent. Why was that modeled? Ho whines. Not history. Not practicality. Not inability to code otherwise. Not unplayability of the game without it. Ho whines - plain and simple.
Why didn't HT model it? Well, I suppose you'd have to ask him the specifics but it seems rather obvious he never thought it was needed. HT likes as realistic and practical model as possible. Shooting your opponent from whatever angle with your opponent facing whatever angle just happens to be that. Has HT tweaked the game to modify player social interaction at all? *cough*ENI*cough* But then, that's not the flight model, the aircraft stats or anything ... it's a capacity-driven arena balancing tool.
So .... even though the owner and designer of the game (and his staffed `grammers) has knowledge of and the ability to code the magical nosecone of reduced lethality he doesn't appear to have HO issues. Neither does the vast majority of the player base. That leaves it a "deal with it" issue. "Deal with it" could entail sucking it up when it happens and not whining about it or starting a campaign to enforce your personal ethics and standards regarding programmed elements of the game on the rest of the community - in part or as a whole.
It can also involve learning how to effectively reduce the odds of your own suffering, tactically speaking, whether it involves HOing, vulching, other guy cheating through altitude grabbing, suicide bombing, ack-running, anything any player (new or not) has whined from the beginning of time when they were defeated "unfairly" in this game of more than just air dueling. Don't like getting HOed? Don't like getting vulched? Don't like getting cherry-picked? Don't like odds greater than 1:1 ... 2:1 .... 3:1? Learn to avoid it all. Yes, West Virginia .... there is a San .. errr ... there is a way. It's called SA.
HO avoidance: Heh. What can be said? You turned to face the enemy or he turned to face you ... or both. How did you get there? Are you in a low e-state? Did you see this coming? DO you see this coming? *blam* Did you see that coming? How's your rudders, mate? I bet if you had more e and didn't set yourself up in a position to get vulched or HOed so easily neither would happen as frequently. OR you can petition the rest of the community not to do it to you anymore. How about a barrel roll (if you have the e)? How about upping from a less likely spot to encounter something you're too low and slow to avoid as easily as you could if you had your ship at it's optimum corner speed?
Vulch avoidance: Same as above, really. Are you defending a base from capture? Are you outnumbered? Do you really expect to be allowed up and up to speed even at treetop level unmolested? Do you always plan on the generosity or chivalry of your opponent to dictate your fun, much less odds of success? I wouldn't recommend it. If you're gonna tilt at windmills best learn to enjoy doing it and not complain. Or at least stop it with the 459th version of the chivalry campaign. Everyone has a bad day/night/week .... doesn't always mean their personal misery requires the rest of the community to modify their behavior to become the cure.
Ack running: Ask yourself ... why is ack even modeled? "Oh, I dunno Arlo .... to give the Ack-lieds (or Ack-sis) a place to run back to?" Close but no cigar. It certainly wasn't modeled to make that an impossibility, though. Ack is a defense. Yeah, you know this. It makes it harder to go in and bomb a base to smithereens or sink a fleet without at least something in your way. What's this got to do with "Ack-running?" Since when does the existance of something on the map .... be it an ack battery .... a windmill ... whatever .... supposed to dictate where a player flies and fights in either an offensive or defensive role? If there was no ack at all, players would be thumping their chests and looking for a way to berate and embarrass other players for having denied them a kill ... or an easier one (which I find mor-ironic from the standpoint that some of the same "ack runner!" whines eminate from players who also whine that they're not being presented enough of a challenge by their skilless opponents) ... no matter what the circumstances were. The player who dove back to ack went defensive. It doesn't matter if the player lost confidence when it came to facing your superior mad AHII skillz or was bingo or pilot wounded or what. Your choice, at that point, is to follow him in to finish him off or fly the periphery to see if he returns. Sounds too simple? Well, it is. Does this mean nobody will ever feel frustration? Now what type of challenging and fun game would this be if that never happened? (heh) But it isn't grounds for a class action whine-suit to be filed on the AvA staff or a pact enforced on the AvA community involving "proper behavior." As much as some try to paint the AvA to be "The Grande Chivalry Arena" ... I, personally, disagree and never saw that there but on an individual basis. Nor did I ever really require it to have fun.
Player .... mind thy own ethical standard. Feel free to set the example for it but c'mon ... if it's something that's not an issue for the game designer/owner ..... don't run me over with your bandwagon or try to shove the "bird of unethicalness" argument up my nose. I will not stand by the petition (once again). I will not enforce my or anyone else's personal standards (or lack of them, for that matter) on another player. If I was active staff again, I wouldn't enforce anything outside of AHII TOS.
:D
(Disclaimer: The above is merely the long-time, long-winded opinion of Arlo [low stat, skilless dweeb that he is] and does not necessarily reflect the actual views of Hitechcreations, HTC, HT, Skuzzy, Pyro or anything officially affiliated with Aces High II - aka AHII - nor the body of it's staff, paid or volunteer.)
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again, arlo takes a perfectly good thread and screws it up.
Arlo, it's an easy question, YES or NO, period. please skip the mindless bs. just yes or no, pretty simple. i know 5th graders that can answer the question. thank you, come again!
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he does write a lot of books
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again, arlo takes a perfectly good thread and screws it up.
Arlo easy question, YES or NO, period. please skip the mindless bs. just yes or no, pretty simple. i know 5th graders that can answer the question. thank you, come again!
Well no then. Can you handle that with dryness and composure oh leader of the "behavior enforcement" band?
Ah .... offended you I have with more detail than you wanted, Jedi. Rained on your parade with "mindlessness", I did. Carry on. :D
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Ah .... offended you I have with more detail than you wanted, Jedi. Rained on your parade with "mindlessness", I did. Carry on. :D
YES or NO???
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YES or NO???
Why are you still confused? Were the two previous nos not enough? Does it really take a third? :lol
NO :D
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thank you. next!!!!
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Aces High II was designed by an Air Warrior. Have you ever played Air Warrior? AWII/III was coded to give the player roughly a fifteen degree "cone of reduced lethality" from incoming fire on the nose. Then meant all incoming on their forward arc (cone) up to a fifteen degree deflection had it's lethality reduced by over ninety percent. Why was that modeled? Ho whines. Not history. Not practicality. Not inability to code otherwise. Not unplayability of the game without it. Ho whines - plain and simple.
Why didn't HT model it? Well, I suppose you'd have to ask him the specifics but it seems rather obvious he never thought it was needed. HT likes as realistic and practical model as possible. Shooting your opponent from whatever angle with your opponent facing whatever angle just happens to be that. Has HT tweaked the game to modify player social interaction at all? *cough*ENI*cough* But then, that's not the flight model, the aircraft stats or anything ... it's a capacity-driven arena balancing tool.
So .... even though the owner and designer of the game (and his staffed `grammers) has knowledge of and the ability to code the magical nosecone of reduced lethality he doesn't appear to have HO issues. Neither does the vast majority of the player base. That leaves it a "deal with it" issue. By "deal with it" that could entail anything from sucking it up when it happens and not either whining about it or starting a campaign to enforce your personal ethics and standards regarding programmed elements of the game on the rest of the community - in part or as a whole.
It can also involve learning how to effectively reduce the odds of your own suffering, tactically speaking, whether it involves HOing, vulching, other guy cheating through altitude grabbing, suicide bombing, ack-running, anything any player (new or not) has whined from the beginning of time when they were defeated "unfairly" in this game of more than just air dueling. Don't like getting HOed? Don't like getting vulched? Don't like getting cherry-picked? Don't like odds greater than 1:1 ... 2:1 .... 3:1? Learn to avoid it all. Yes, West Virginia .... there is a San .. errr ... there is a way. It's called SA.
HO avoidance: Heh. What can be said? You turned to face the enemy or he turned to face you ... or both. How did you get there? Are you in a low e-state? Did you see this coming? DO you see this coming? *blam* Did you see that coming? How's your rudders, mate? I bet if you had more e and didn't set yourself up in a position to get vulched or HOed so easily neither would happen as frequently. OR you can petition the rest of the community not to do it to you anymore. How about a barrel roll (if you have the e)? How about upping from a less likely spot to encounter something you're too low and slow to avoid as easily as you could if you had your ship at it's optimum corner speed?
Vulch avoidance: Same as above, really. Are you defending a base from capture? Are you outnumbered? Do you really expect to be allowed up and up to speed even at treetop level unmolested? Do you always plan on the generosity or chivalry of your opponent to dictate your fun, much less odds of success? I wouldn't recommend it. If you're gonna tilt at windmills best learn to enjoy doing it and not complain. Or at least stop it with the 459th version of the chivalry campaign. Everyone has a bad day/night/week .... doesn't always mean their personal misery requires the rest of the community to modify their behavior to become the cure.
Ack running: Ask yourself ... why is ack even modeled? "Oh, I dunno Arlo .... to give the Ack-lieds (or Ack-sis) a place to run back to?" Close but no cigar. It certainly wasn't modeled to make that an impossibility, though. Ack is a defense. Yeah, you know this. It makes it harder to go in and bomb a base to smithereens or sink a fleet without at least something in your way. What's this got to do with "Ack-running?" Since when does the existance of something on the map .... be it an ack battery .... a windmill ... whatever .... supposed to dictate where a player flies and fights in either an offensive or defensive role? If there was no ack at all, players would be thumping their chests and looking for a way to berate and embarrass other players for having denied them a kill ... or an easier one (which I find mor-ironic from the standpoint that some of the same "ack runner!" whines eminate from players who also whine that they're not being presented enough of a challenge by their skilless opponents) ... no matter what the circumstances were. The player who dove back to ack went defensive. It doesn't matter if the player lost confidence when it came to facing your superior mad AHII skillz or was bingo or pilot wounded or what. Your choice, at that point, is to follow him in to finish him off or fly the periphery to see if he returns. Sounds too simple? Well, it is. Does this mean nobody will ever feel frustration? Now what type of challenging and fun game would this be if that never happened? (heh) But it isn't grounds for a class action whine-suit to be filed on the AvA staff or a pact enforced on the AvA community involving "proper behavior." As much as some try to paint the AvA to be "The Grande Chivalry Arena" ... I, personally, disagree and never saw that there but on an individual basis. Nor did I ever really require it to have fun.
Player .... mind thy own ethical standard. Feel free to set the example for it but c'mon ... if it's something that's not an issue for the game designer/owner ..... don't run me over with your bandwagon or try to shove the "bird of unethicalness" argument up my nose. I will not stand by the petition (once again). I will not enforce my or anyone else's personal standards (or lack of them, for that matter) on another player. If I was active staff again, I wouldn't enforce anything outside of AHII TOS.
:D
(Disclaimer: The above is merely the long-time, long-winded opinion of Arlo [low stat, skilless dweeb that he is] and does not necessarily reflect the actual views of Hitechcreations, HTC, HT, Skuzzy, Pyro or anything officially affiliated with Aces High II - aka AHII - nor the body of it's staff, paid or volunteer.)
Warmongo stands up and applauds.....(clap, clap, clap, clap !!!)
Finally...someone has the common sense to put it all in perspective.. :salute :salute :salute :salute Arlo!
Listen up you bunch of tree huggers...LOL
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is that a yes or a no warmongo?
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That is NO. You can have your private club back. :rolleyes:
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is that a yes or a no warmongo?
It's probably a yes. Sounded confusing. [edit: whoops ... I was wrong. See? I got confused.] :D
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I look at the AvA as the axis=republicans and acklies=demonocrats, why is it the axis always having to cave and step accross the isle to work with the acklies? I don't ever see it the other way around, just the demonocrats shoving it down our throats take it or leave it style.
Kinda like the CM staff, how many axis players are on it? Maybe 1 whom I can't remember when the last time I saw in the AvA actually flying. When primarily one side (acklies) are in charge it reminds me of a demonocratic house that just shoves anything and everything down our throats like it or not.
I say, mid war MA is the place to be!
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ya'll know what a true HO is right?(its not the Doom,Quake..run up in your face HO.. ya'll know that right?)I say that because thats not what we have going on in the arena.As Rap said a front defflection is not a HO, but CH 200"nice HO"...sigh..C'mon.Im all for rules of engagement,but would all follow them?A real HO.. Im about 15, 20 degrees off a con as we merge, I kick rudder point my nose(for a brief second) and fire,Kill the "bad guy"His buddy cant stand for that... flew strait at me, shooting till Im dead, when he hits me head on broadcasts "nice HO"...Wiskey Tango Foxtrot?I like the fact that IN the AVA I fly against better than me,sometimes they teach me,sometimes I teach them :devil :salute
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I look at the AvA as the axis=republicans and acklies=demonocrats, why is it the axis always having to cave and step accross the isle to work with the acklies? I don't ever see it the other way around, just the demonocrats shoving it down our throats take it or leave it style.
Kinda like the CM staff, how many axis players are on it? Maybe 1 whom I can't remember when the last time I saw in the AvA actually flying. When primarily one side (acklies) are in charge it reminds me of a demonocratic house that just shoves anything and everything down our throats like it or not.
I say, mid war MA is the place to be!
Then I'd say you're lost. Based on your post, alone, I'd say you're looking for the o-club or the general forum. But then ... perhaps there's a part of you ... no, nevermind .... you're lost. :D
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Oh isn't that a hoot, arlo telling someone they are lost... pot-kettle-black!
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Oh isn't that a hoot, arlo telling someone they are lost... pot-kettle-black!
Whatever self-reassurance you need to carry on, Jethro. Just consider carrying it on back to the o-club. :salute :D
BTW ... as asked of others ... was that a yes or no regarding a petition to force other players to fight fair and adhere to a chivalric code of behavior? (And how does that play into your politi-stance take/whine on that, again?) ;)
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ya'll know what a true HO is right?(its not the Doom,Quake..run up in your face HO.. ya'll know that right?)I say that because thats not what we have going on in the arena.As Rap said a front defflection is not a HO, but CH 200"nice HO"...sigh..C'mon.Im all for rules of engagement,but would all follow them?A real HO.. Im about 15, 20 degrees off a con as we merge, I kick rudder point my nose(for a brief second) and fire,Kill the "bad guy"His buddy cant stand for that... flew strait at me, shooting till Im dead, when he hits me head on broadcasts "nice HO"...Wiskey Tango Foxtrot?I like the fact that IN the AVA I fly against better than me,sometimes they teach me,sometimes I teach them :devil :salute
when 2 planes fly at each other
one planes dives downward to avoid a Head On shot, with the sense of having a clean fight
the plane not diving under takes the shot anyway
that is a head on shot
the reason the not diving under pilot took that shot is because he knows dang well that the pilot diving under and offering a clean fight will prolly shoot the non diving pilot down
which is why this always occurs.
today when i was in the AvA i had some good fights with a few 109's and 190's.All clean fights, heck i even let the one guy get back up to altitude (3-K) and we started again.
it is all up to each one of us to set the standard of game play.there are things that others do that none of us like and we must make that choice not to do those things.
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Back to the topic: would you be willing to abide by rules of engagement in the new AVA scenario, if everyone else did the same thing??
Yes or No only please! :)
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Yes or No only please! :)
Seriously ... you're bringing this up but discouraging debate, counselor? If someone other than me has more opinion to express than a simple yes or no (along with their yes or no, implied, plainly stated or not) are you unwilling to discuss and reassess the merit(s) of your suggested community chivalric code enforcement? Respectfully and maturely ... that's not a reasonable request.
Now, having said that, I'll gladly step aside at this point as you demand one syllable responses to your recommendation.
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Seriously ... you're bringing this up but discouraging debate, counselor? If someone other than me has more opinion to express than a simple yes or no (along with their yes or no, implied, plainly stated or not) are you unwilling to discuss and reassess the merit(s) of your suggested community chivalric code enforcement? Respectfully and maturely ... that's not a reasonable request.
Now, having said that, I'll gladly step aside at this point as you demand one syllable responses to your recommendation.
i would love to hear someones opinion other then yours, youve been heard from. now make way for someone else and stop hogging bandwith and creating greenhouse gasses.
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Here's my Nickle,
I'll get right out with it then. The AvA should in no way, IMO, be an extension of the DA. Which, if you add ROE, disable base captures, and lower flak ratings, will most definitly make it just another DA with the addition of a rolling plane set. Too many times in the old AvA have I upped from a base saw a fellow pilot being ganged by two or more enemy planes and jumped in to help just get get "yelled at" by the very guy i was trying to help for "butting in". :mad:
I fear that this is where the AvA is slowly reverting to. There are too many hot sticks out there that souly want a their very own play ground to do as they please. To attract players into the AvA you need to have a set goals to work towards. Keep a specifc strat porked until a certin date or to capture and hold a series of bases for a set period of time. [font=redSo what do YOU the player want the AvA to become? An extension of the DA, where the only difference you get is a set plane set and different terrain? OR, would you rather have a Areana where there a specific goals that you must work toward? Yes, the later is like the MA, BUT you have a set plane set for that time, and a better way to "tweak" the settings to better enforce the arena. I for one do NOT want another DA. I dont play in the AvA to "duel". There are or were rules or guidelines that were set to prevent players from "ganging", like asking BEFORE you jump into a 1v1. If I see a squadie getting in trouble with a enemy I will ask if said sqaudie is ok, if he/she needs help I will engage. If not I will orbit and await the outcome. If another enemy plane shows up i will engage THAT plane in order to protect my squadie. As far as Head on attacks, it happens, I don't make HO attacks simply because i lose them all the time. It's a crap shoot. 50/50 at best. When i fight i want the advantage to be on MY side. Lower the Ack rating to try and solve the ack hugging dweebs, make it a rule that vulching is a no no, post the rules in the MOTD so that there is NO question as to what those rules are. MOST players when politely told "we dont do that stuff in here" will accept it and move on, this applies well on the HO subject. Now if you start dictating specifics like no HO on the merge or if you run 1 sector, you cant return to the fight then your hosed. You cant enforce these rules and trying to do so IMHO is a wased effort. I do believe that a "code of conduct" should be posted up. Stuff like "asking before you engage into a 1v1" and"Vulching is not accepted" and "Head On attacks are frowned upon in this arena". These are guidlines that are simple and effective. If you try to add more your just asking for trouble.
The "AvA war" worked! it attracted more pilots into the arena, although a little green, but in time they will improve. The idea just needs to be tweaked a little. Sick of Ack huggers then lower the Ack rates but not to the point where you can simply come in and vulch as you please. There is a middle ground there I believe. You wont stop people trying to take the HO. It will happen, you can just inform people that it's not accepted in the arena. As far as chasing a player for a sector...dont go there, its a can of worms and really has no bearing on the Arena as a whole. I have many other ideas but this freakin post is getting to look like a novel. :O
See you in the air :aok
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you will never be able to enforce any rules. there will always be people like me who will break them just for the breaking's sake.
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The official Avenger stand on this is NO. I will not tie my guys hands behind thier backs with some silly Dueling Arena style ROA. We do not believe that HO'ing is a good tactic, as it is pretty much a coin toss and no skill is required. We also do not go and vulch just for the fun of it; it is only used by us during a base capture to get the troops in, but on the other hand we don't normally roll from a capped base either.
Too many varibles here to even try to police; in who's eyes was it an HO? What alt does he have to be at to not cry Vulch? No thanks, we will do our best to stay alive by using ACM instead of ROA that can not be enforced anyway.
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THIS IS WAR DAM IT. IF PEOPLE VULCH, HO THEN SO IT BE. IT HAPPEN IN THE WAR SO IT WILL HAPPEN IN HERE. STOP YOUR WHINNING, SUCK IT UP AND FIGHT. I HAVE BEEN HO AND VULCH AND CARE LESS ABOUT IT. WHAT DOES NEED TO STOP IS CERTAIN AXIS FLYING C-47 IN TO GVS TO TRY TO TKE THEM OUT. WTF IS THAT ABOUT!
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I did have one of my guys fly his C-47 into a gv this week; he was emediately counseled on the matter. Feel free to private me or my XO, OldBull, if you see any of my guys doing this in the future. <S>
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Well the invasion of Normandy scenario is going pretty good. Number ballance is a problem and I don't see any solution that everyone agress to. I must admit that I am not a fan of side swapping, as I think it leads to mistrust among players. I pick a side, usually axis, and fly it to the end regardless of numbers. I don't mind going into a fight 6 vs 1 but others do and I can't fault them.
I don't like bardar and I think the flashing base warning radius should be shortened, but I can live with it.
Being a new player I'm still trying to learn the tactics associated with attacking a base. For example if I kill all the ammo bunkers at a base what is the effect, how long does it last, what can the enemy do to rebuild the ammo bunkers faster. A sticky on those might help some of the new folks out and encourage more participation.
Otherwise, I having a blast, more fun than I've had in Warbirds in a long time. :salute
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I'm JG11 squad on this.
It takes 2 to HO. If you don't want to be then don't fly straight at them.
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tango,
would you be willing to limit HO'ing to second or third pass. NO HO'ing on the first pass. second and third pass are fair game??
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As I said before, it takes 2 to HO. I try to never put myself in position to be HO'd, but I also don't whine if I do get HO'd.
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Seems to me these "rules" worked most of the time in the old AvA because it was a small crowd that knew each other and they were followed out of respect for the other guy. That is gone. (the small crowd and the respect of other payers) Don't think it would stand a snowballs chance in hell anymore.
This is one of the reasons I don't vulch and try to maintain fair fights. I would feel bad if I vulched a plane and system told me I just killed someone I have gained a lot of respect for and who has helped me try to become a better virtual pilot.
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I look at the AvA as the axis=republicans and acklies=demonocrats, why is it the axis always having to cave and step accross the isle to work with the acklies? I don't ever see it the other way around, just the demonocrats shoving it down our throats take it or leave it style.
Kinda like the CM staff, how many axis players are on it? Maybe 1 whom I can't remember when the last time I saw in the AvA actually flying. When primarily one side (acklies) are in charge it reminds me of a demonocratic house that just shoves anything and everything down our throats like it or not.
I say, mid war MA is the place to be!
I think you read way to much in to a video game if this is the conclusion you have drawn.
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My 2 cents...
1. I'm very new at this game (3 weeks). I like the AvA arena the most. But it bothers me that you Axis-guys claim that the allieds are ACK huggers (you refer to us as acklieds) there were I personally have been killed (or made me crash, or bail, you get the point) more by axis players, then I've seen alliedplayers do...
2. I see people in this forum stating that it's not done to run into ack, but I know for a fact that that same person ran into ack every single time he lost advantage in the fight (i.e. me getting him of my six, and getting on his six), and yes, he even posted in this thread!!!! I can give you the name if you want, but not in public...
3. telling me I'm a democrat because I choose allied side, is the biggest BS I've ever heard. I don't live in the US, and I don't care how YOUR politics is done. I don't even know what those terms stand for... To me it's a simulation game, not more, not less...
4. rules... more rules... hey, it's my personal opinion that vulching, running into ACK, gang-banging (i.e. more than 2-1) is not done... There's no honour in that. I can guys from your site vouch for me on this one (RMrider or something...) I let a 109 get up from a Vbase, just to get a fair fight... Mind that I'm the guy that doesn't shoot bailed pilots, bail myself if I'm crashing, .... I mean, if you don't have the decency of getting some values that, without a doubt, you trie to live up in real live, projected into the game (you don't shoot your guns at defenseless people don't you?), stay out then...
5. HO's, I'm 100% with Onthos... It's gambling, where the odds are 50-50. I don't take that risk, the other guy should make the same reasoning for himself...
According to me, it's a mather of respect for the opponent, the player on the other side, the guy who could be your best friend, ...
For your opinion captain1ma, I salute you,
For your idea of enforcing rules of engagement, I oppose...
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before writing any rule we need to plan and understand very well what will be the new AVA.
Othervise everyone will intend HIS own way to act and justyfy it.
For example, if AVA is a war like scenario I'll occur anytime I see a friendly attacked by a red plane; maybe in the intention of the other player I'm not correct cause he thinks he's in a sort of DA.
Other examples of vulching, ganging and so on has just been made , all are related to how anyone interpret the arena.
Moreover, the rules are in you, in your behaviour, in your style.....you are a class acting or not its in you.
I fly the AVA after 8 years of AH, and actually I have forgotten all the statistics; I fly in the intent to defend the territory, throwing myself in every desperate situation dying repaetedly without problem.....I've been ganged hoed vulched, well ...no problem at all, maybe I'll not <S> who don't deserve it, but in the end is still fun
Yesteday at the end of a battle my opponent was losing pieces, his engine was burning, he was slowly going down; I decided to follow him and when his engine dead, decided to let him land and passed waving my wings...well he upped his nose and shooted at me.......you think he can respect any rule in the future?? :confused:
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Yesteday at the end of a battle my opponent was losing pieces, his engine was burning, he was slowly going down; I decided to follow him and when his engine dead, decided to let him land and passed waving my wings...well he upped his nose and shooted at me.......you think he can respect any rule in the future?? :confused:
x2
Yesterday, Araigama and me had a number of fights (we were there alone ;))
I shot him, he was wounded, I'll let him go. Twice it was like that. We had a friendly conversation on the 200, nice fights, no vulching, no Ho'ing, and respect for each other
I know that the most out there are like Araigama, Stegor, ...
Hey, even a heavy bomber squad that dropped its eggs, why hunt it? There's no use... It's no danger anymore. Besides, if you shoot it, the one flying will up a new bomber (or fighter) sooner. So let it fly, he's out of the fight for that moment ;)
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I think you read way to much in to a video game if this is the conclusion you have drawn.
There should be as close to even numbers of active allied and axis players on the CM staff. As it stands now its predominately one allied squad. I don't think there will be any real change in the AvA untill there is some house cleaning of the CM staff, but I don't see that happening either. And that wasn't or isn't my conclusion just and ironic comparison.
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The interesting thing here is that we all have complaints about the AvA, and Jaeger is suggesting a 'code of honor' for us to agree upon to help stop some of the 'dweebery', and most of us are just pissing on him.
I'll gladly fly according to agreed upon rules of engagement, I already do fly that way for the most part, but I admit to taking a HO shot now and then out of frustration.
I don't expect everyone to follow the rules, but if the larger squads in the arena abide by them, that online will make a HUGE improvement in the gameplay of the AvA. Who knows, if the big squads do it, the little squads might, if the little squads do it the squadless ones might join in. There'll never be 100% participation, but we're dealing in probabilities, and even if it's just the major allied and axis squads, you have a MUCH higher chance to get a good fight. This may only last a week, but hey...at least we tried.
So my answer: Yes.
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"code of honor" = Yes
"Rules"= No
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YEA,I like biscuits....jealous?............. :huh
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Don't you guys ever learn? The demise of the old AvA was brought on by exactly the same type of day dreaming that is being proposed here, a utopia that can never exist, a non existant set of rules that is always open to interpretation. And when those who who profess to be the guardians and champions of the "RULES" were all that were left in the '"OLD AvA" the bickering and crys of foul were still just as constant. About a dozen pilots bullied and intimidated any new blood into the AvA to the point were if you saw 5 or 6 guys logged on in prime time that was considered to be a BIG night.
I vote NO
Maj OldBull
XO Avengers
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This is a simple but flawed concept, often presented.
The skilled player wants to extend the fight so merges with guns cold to see how it develops, it's more fun.
In a relatively even matchup, the less skilled (cough) player knows his only chance at a shot is on the merge, and dieing is less fun then living. When the matchup is one sided, the guy in the less capable plane will usually take the HO for the same reason, it's probably his only shot and dieing is less fun. If you're the "more skilled" player, then most of the time you shouldn't have a problem avoiding the HO.
Saying you have an unenforceable "no HO rule" would be the source of endless whines.
No rules.
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the demise of the old AvA was brought on by exactly the same type of day dreaming that is being proposed here, a utopia that can never exist, a non existant set of rules that is always open to interpretation. .[/i]
The last map of the old AvA was Midway. There was very much positive feedback and the only person ever railed to my knowledge was Ollock, or something like that, whom was constantly critisized for picking and HO'ing. There were around 20 players in there nightly I believe. Yes, there were complaints in the old AvA but I don't thnk they could hold a candle to the funny pages (AvA forum) since the "war" started. It appears the Avengers stomped loud enough to get waht they wanted and now you're stomping about any change to move it anywhere near what it used to be.
Who is bullying and intimidating??
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I think it's ok to say no to HO if there are other rules as well.
How about.
1. When there is a 3 to 1 situation the 3 leaves the 1 alone. Hey that's not fair odds.
2. Don't fly in mixed formations with a single 190, C2 and 110.
3. Don't spawn from flaming craters.
4. Don't run around with a 45 taking out troops that don't shoot back.
I think it's a game and should be played as one.
You put your face in mine and I just might try to punch you in it. If you don't like it show me your back side and I'll Hmmmmm :D
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I don't think there will be any real change in the AvA untill there is some house cleaning of the CM staff, but I don't see that happening either. And that wasn't or isn't my conclusion just and ironic comparison.
How would you know this? Certainly not from experience, lately. Oh wait ... you said it plain as day. You "think" your conclusions to life then call them "ironic comparisons." Female intuition, sounds like. Reminds me of my ex. Rose? I thought you hated this game? ;)
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:D :D :D Arlo :aok
Captain, a few more things...
1. take a look at your signature...
2. I took the liberty of taping some fights (at least I tried to fight), I dare you to look at them, ...
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Jaeger ,
Thank you for taking the time and having the guts to attempt to improve the atmosphere in the AVA.
As you can probably see there are many points of view, and then there are many that just can't miss out on a chance to bash at one group, individual, or another.
I doesn't look as if there can be a set of hard or fast rules. Everyone is going to fly to their personal style and beliefs. The only rule right now, is be ready for anything and don't be shocked when it happens. Don't let the course this thread took distract you from your cause. Keep pushing for a better AVA. Remember the staff gives us the tools, it's the players that build a diamond or a turd with it.
<S> Jaeger.
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I'll gladly fly according to agreed upon rules of engagement, I already do fly that way for the most part, but I admit to taking a HO shot now and then out of frustration.
So then, despite your "yes" answer you illustrate why it's a silly venture to consider, at best. You can't dictate chivalry. It's in the player or it's not. And every player perceives it differently. Sometimes even differently just from who does what to whom. Sometimes just from a moment of frustration outweighing their earlier passionate forum declaration. I'm not pissing on Jaeger ... I'm bringing up the obvious. Glad Jaeger made the suggestion, just because it revealed the need to go over how a player's frustration with other players and how they play the game may be best addressed by not setting ourselves up for frustration as much rather than dictating to others how to make our own lives less frustrating.
And that's the condensed version of one of my books on the subject. :D :salute
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Who is bullying and intimidating??
From your post it would seem to indicate anyone not on this "Mandatory Chivalry Enforcement Code" bandwagon. Seems kinda ironic, dont'cha think?
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There should be as close to even numbers of active allied and axis players on the CM staff. As it stands now its predominately one allied squad. I don't think there will be any real change in the AvA untill there is some house cleaning of the CM staff, but I don't see that happening either. And that wasn't or isn't my conclusion just and ironic comparison.
There is no Axis/Allied bias on the staff. Never has been with the current group. I do find it funny when you say there will be no change in the AvA given where we were this time last year.
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Jaeger ,
Thank you for taking the time and having the guts to attempt to improve the atmosphere in the AVA.
As you can probably see there are many points of view, and then there are many that just can't miss out on a chance to bash at one group, individual, or another.
I doesn't look as if there can be a set of hard or fast rules. Everyone is going to fly to their personal style and beliefs. The only rule right now, is be ready for anything and don't be shocked when it happens. Don't let the course this thread took distract you from your cause. Keep pushing for a better AVA. Remember the staff gives us the tools, it's the players that build a diamond or a turd with it.
<S> Jaeger.
Classier than mine. :salute
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So then, despite your "yes" answer you illustrate why it's a silly venture to consider, at best. You can't dictate chivalry.
I think people are taking this out of context. There is no way to 'enforce' any rules, nor should there be anything 'forced' on the community. I was taking Jaeger's post as a 'Geneva convention' of sorts among the AvA squads. If the large squads would agree to a method of conduct, it can work. Will it work every day all day long from now until eternity...no. But more often than not we'll see better fights.
The older AvA'ers are already familiar with a code of conduct, we followed it here for years. Did we ever break it on occasion...sure...but that was the exception, not the rule.
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I am an older AvA (CT) player. The only code of conduct that's ever existed in this arena has been of a personal nature. Even then, it's as sporadic as the player who's having a bad day. If it seemed a community wide acceptance of unwritten rules of engagement to some then it must have been one of those nights when nobody was having a bad day. Unless there was some sort of wierd love-fest that went on during my hiatus. :D
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I WILL HO AND VULCHED ANYBODY AS I SEE FIT. AND I DO EXPECT TO SAME HAPPEN TO ME. SUCK IT UP. THE ONLY THING THAT I HAVE SEEN ENFORCED IS NAYST REMARKS, BAD MOUTH AND ARRGUMENTS BETWEEN PLAYERS. IF THESE ACTIVITY HAPPENS, THE CT WILL GO AS FAR AS REMOVE YOU FROM AVA.
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I think I'll leave it at that. :huh
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I am an older AvA (CT) player. The only code of conduct that's ever existed in this arena has been of a personal nature. Even then, it's as sporadic as the player who's having a bad day. If it seemed a community wide acceptance of unwritten rules of engagement to some then it must have been one of those nights when nobody was having a bad day. Unless there was some sort of wierd love-fest that went on during my hiatus. :D
100% ...His comments are unequivably the most insightful and honest. I feel totally honored to be in his presence on this message board. ...cough..ack..ack..Walk Hard..... :rock
I apologize...couldn`t help myself ..but I do agree!
My style of Play depends on how much i`ve indulged in unrestrained gratification of spirits or other vices that are available to me at the time...as a rule I try to be a gentlemen...but there are times that I forget myself and become Mr Hyde.....
Kudos to "Jaeger1" for trying to make the community of the AVA self aware ....... :salute
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From your post it would seem to indicate anyone not on this "Mandatory Chivalry Enforcement Code" bandwagon. Seems kinda ironic, dont'cha think?
Can I get a winkie eye smiley face please....I feel left out
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Can I get a winkie eye smiley face please....I feel left out
Don't whine about that, too! Ok ... ;) ... and a lolly-pop. Run along now. :D
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:rofl Thank you
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I WILL HO AND VULCHED ANYBODY AS I SEE FIT. AND I DO EXPECT TO SAME HAPPEN TO ME. SUCK IT UP. THE ONLY THING THAT I HAVE SEEN ENFORCED IS NAYST REMARKS, BAD MOUTH AND ARRGUMENTS BETWEEN PLAYERS. IF THESE ACTIVITY HAPPENS, THE CT WILL GO AS FAR AS REMOVE YOU FROM AVA.
so as CO of a squad, you refuse to try to make it a better place. is that how i read this??
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You people are the biggest whiners. When this whole AVA thing started, I do and many more will agree, remember being HO and Vulched by axis players. So, we started returning the favor. Now that the table has turn, you all cry about it.
So, what is the next thing I have seen in BoB. Stick Sturing. C-47 letting troops out then run their plane into any GVs.
I always get vulched, HO, gain up in AVA. I do expect it. And I do the same in return. Now, how do you spot people for Vulching and Ho???? Ball is in your court now, make me look like a fool.
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C-47 letting troops out then run their plane into any GVs.
You realise that that doesnt do anything, right?
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Hell if i know. It just shows despration if you do that.
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Yep biscuits is what i like
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You people are the biggest whiners. When this whole AVA thing started, I do and many more will agree, remember being HO and Vulched by axis players.
I don't believe Jaeger's intent is a whine. The Axis complaint has never really been HO's. If you want to HO us, that's fine, we'll just up a 110 and giggle as you go poof. Jaeger was trying to come up with an idea of what bugs us all and have a gentlemen agreement to try and reduce the dweebery seen on both sides.
Despite what Arlo suggested, the AvA was a more civil area in the past. Maybe he missed it...I dunno. I never saw him in the arena until once a month or so ago so his hiatus must have started before I came to the arena. I started flying in the AvA in late 2005 early 2006. Sure we had the occasional goober, but we had an accepted conduct that both sides followed most of the time...
With squad CO support it's possible to do. If they don't want to do it, that's fine and dandy, so I'd bet we shouldn't see any complaint posts by those squads. But to say it CAN'T be done...that's just lazy.
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I never saw him in the arena until once a month or so ago so his hiatus must have started before I came to the arena. I started flying in the AvA in late 2005 early 2006.
Ahhhhh .... late 2005 .... early 2006. That's a good two years plus and nobody should sell you short for your experience(s). But I still can't help but wonder if you see things through rose-colored glasses. My short time back seems to indicate nothing's much changed (and how could it have been so radically different your two years plus while I was out of the game then suddenly whiplash back the day ... or day before ... I return?):
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,148807.msg1651736.html#msg1651736
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,68150.msg636172.html#msg636172
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,108151.msg1116428.html#msg1116428
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,50380.msg451812.html#msg451812
Complaints over chivalry or lack thereof are apparently a time-honored tradition in our favorite arena. That being the case, who am I to trample legacy? Never-the-less .... I've yet to see it in general agreement amongst the AvA population when it's above the six headcount or for more than an hour. If you believe you have during my awol period ... and I wasn't there to witness the contrary ..... *ShruG*
And never-the-lesser ... ahem ... I reiterate .... chivalry can no more be dictated to the AvA community than wisdom can be dictated to children. It's either in you or it isn't. You either grow into it or you don't. One can suggest, perhaps. One can certainly provide an example. But dictation or treaty? Heh. So pardon me while I hold onto both my conviction that my manners are mine and the other guy's are his and my decision to not let his lack of dictate my fun in a game that really isn't about manners at all.
:D :salute
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Despite what Arlo suggested, the AvA was a more civil area in the past. Maybe he missed it
He did. He is harkening back to the pre-AH2 era, and he is correct about that period. The advent of AH2, with its new plane modeling and it's instant destruction of all the old AvA maps hit us like the plague hit Europe (seems like only yesterday). During our subsequent Dark Ages there was, indeed, an extended period of general chivalry (there were always Black Knight exceptions, of course), caused principally by the fact that, with so few people in the arena, you just wouldn't get any good fights if you ended them early with head-ons, vulching and/or ganging.
Now we have some numbers again, and a welcome influx of people who were raised in the MAs. To no one's surprise the chivalry aspect has declined, particularly given the emphasis on base capture. There are no free lunches. The nice thing is that we are again seeing discussions like this one, which shows that there is a growing base of people who want to raise the quality of play. Experience teaches that you can't require people to conform to a standard - there really is no fair enforcement mechanism, even if you wanted to accept the player base loss it would cause - but you can encourage people to conform to a standard by setting an example.
- oldman
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Ahhhhh .... late 2005 .... early 2006. That's a good two years plus and nobody should sell you short for your experience(s). But I still can't help but wonder if you see things through rose-colored glasses.
I'm not questioning your perception of the CT of old, I don't understand why you can accept my perception of the AvA of old... Besides I'm not the only one who is saying it WAS a better place.
there was, indeed, an extended period of general chivalry
The players dictate the mood of the arena. So if the players want a better arena, it can be a better arena. I honestly can't fathom the hopelessness that some are expressing.
If you want it better, it can be better. If you don't want it better, it can stay the same or get worse. We truly get to decide how the AvA is...for better or worse. It should also be said that the posters on the forum are only a small percentage of the community. In fact, historically, some of the loudest voices in the forum have very little time in the arena.
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He did. He is harkening back to the pre-AH2 era, and he is correct about that period.
I know we've always kinda stood on seperate stances on chivalry in the AvA ... you wanting more ... me not really caring what the other guy does and just focused on my own. Doing my best to enjoy the game no matter what my opponent decides to throw at me. In the end (though it seems endless, at this point) we either enjoy the game, as it's designed, formatted and implemented in whatever setting the designer offers us .... or we don't.
BUT, as long as we've known each other (in two different games) you know I've a strange penchant for community (as do you). Mine's built less on how someone else plays the game and more on interaction over commonality ... now. AW had a lot of WWII history nuts and flight sim jockies from the caveman days who worked long and hard at devising scenario enviroments for immersive sake. Yes, more than a few of them were defenders/enforcers of chivalry, as well ... but that eventually revealed folly to me. But many of them were also realists who witnessed the traumatic influx of "the 10,000 dweebs" (before my time and I was probably in the second wave) yet survived and adapted in an evolving WWII air combat sim enviroment that will always offer more than it did the day before.
The AvA, as I see it (and I know I'm repeating myself), is HT's bone to us historical setting fanatics who want something available 24/7 or when there's an event that has hrs/days we just can't make due to real life. He does it because he's more like us than the rest of the AHII community realizes (as evidenced by HT and company's continued commitment to developing "Combat Tour"). But the mains drive the revenue. AHII is still a business even if it's a labor of love. So the AvA is left to the players and staff to create the best persistant immersive enviroment we can until CT comes out. Ummmm .... that's just my take.
[edited because my memory really isn't perfect, afterall ;)]
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The players dictate the mood of the arena. So if the players want a better arena, it can be a better arena.
Players are not really a collective entity or a group mentality anymore than humans are in anything. Chivalry can't be mandated anymore than morality can be legislated. "The players" are comprised of you, me and however many other players stumble through the AvA door. Everyone can take charge of their own code of ethical behavior and as long as it doesn't cross the clear TOS line I don't rightly care. I would much rather enjoy the game and focus on it without wasting my precious time enforcing unwritten rules on my fellow player (as someone who isn't volunteering their services presently to monitor the arena for TOS violations). The other guy should be grown up enough to figure it out on their own (and in some cases anyway, they may literally be too young or immature to appreciate the time I'm wasting on them). So I'll fly and die in this game with my friends and not-so-friends in a manner I best suit (generally chivalrous when the luxury permits, ironically enough ;)). Half the "fly right" whines I've ever had directed at me were ill-percieved, at best. Tells me right there community enforcement of "chivalry" has already failed the test.
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Arlo, so it really doesn't bother you when you're headed out towards an enemy base and get into a good fight with a single con to have a 190 or 2 dive on on you?
I couldn't really care less about the HO'ing....I just hate having a fight broke up or being vulched. If I'm fighting someone let me finish it....afterwards I will hit alt x and you can pick me apart while I go the fridge for a refreshment...I really don't care at that point.
Thats just me though.
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Arlo, so it really doesn't bother you when you're headed out towards an enemy base and get into a good fight with a single con to have a 190 or 2 dive on on you?
If it did, guess I'd hafta quit on the grounds of emotional abuse .... cause it happens .... regular-like. I should blame the other guy why? I learned there's really nothing to get over when there's not that much that get's to me. :D
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Well thats good I guess......stress is a killer
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Arlo, I understand you believe you are simply being a realist. You say the rules are unenforcible, and that is true.
On the other hand, "rules" of any nature in a game like this are a result of "peer pressure" since there can be no real enforcement. For peer pressure to work, those being "pressured" need to feel like they are in the minority.
As much as I disagree with the smack-talking and obvious double-standards of some individuals, there is certainly a method to the madness. Poke a guy long enough, he might decide to change to better "fit in."
By constantly berating those asking to lift the standard a bit, you are condoning the "lowest behavior" in this or any other game -- the attitude of "I'll do what I want, when I want, and you can't stop me." While the attitude may be technically correct, it makes for a fairly lousy community IMHO. You get poor behavior, such as spying and whatnot, and why shouldn't they? Who cares if the "majority" think it is poor behavior? Arlo and others are saying it is perfectly fine to do what I want when I want, and anyone who says otherwise is a whiner. There is no need for me to change.
I suppose you will say that is exactly as it should be. I respectfully disagree. If the arena you want is one where the lowest common denominator prevails, then by all means keep defending it. If it isn't, then I am not sure why you are working so hard to provide them cover.
You certainly missed the days when the norm was people like Dichodog and Oldman. Few cared who shot who down and under what circumstances. This is because there was a set of agreed upon guidelines, and the community was small enough that 1) most newcomers (myself, for example) adopted them and 2) those that broke them (bad day or what have you) were generally quickly forgiven. As long as the population stays large, it won't get quite to that level again -- but it certainly could be better, if people would let it.
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I'm a big believer in chivalry but I'm afriad that it's long dead in this game. Sure, you see examples of honor from time to time but it's rare.
Example: FSO, April,11, big fight, lost part of a wing and leaking fuel headed for the deck and trimmed level to RTB to the CV some 40 miles away. Chances for survival, next to FA. Run down and flamed, why? I was an easy kill? Whatever floats your boat :rolleyes:
And you want a code of honor in here, good luck with that.
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I would much rather enjoy the game and focus on it without wasting my precious time enforcing unwritten rules on my fellow player
I'm sad you missed out on a couple of great years in the AvA. If you had any idea of what it was like before, you wouldn't be posting things like that.
Who cares if the "majority" think it is poor behavior? Arlo and others are saying it is perfectly fine to do what I want when I want, and anyone who says otherwise is a whiner.[/b]
:salute
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By constantly berating those asking to lift the standard a bit, you are condoning the "lowest behavior" in this or any other game --
Oh contrare .... my personal condonation has nothing to do with it. I'll acknowledge respect more than I'll show disdain for any individual .. on an individual basis. To be honest, in-game I pretty much keep the latter to myself and freely offer the former. I've even had the most chivalrous members of this community gleefully display none to me whatsoever and not bat an eye about it. Life is cheap. Planes are free (or all you can eat for $15/mo.).
Now ... when it comes to others demanding "fair play" or "chivalrous behavior" of others ... to the point of recommending everyone in the sandbox agree to playing or not playing the game in a manner that really has nothing to do with TOS violations and everything to do with their personal frustration ... I speak up on the boards and suggest what I feel is a more practical, even more adult approach. I'd much rather them suggest less whining and more playing and getting past all that. But that's my opinion on what's more of a negative in the arena (and even on the forum) than any amount of HOing, vulching, ganging or any tactic frowned upon. Which frowning ... hey ... is fine. So's smiling. :)
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I'm sad you missed out on a couple of great years in the AvA. If you had any idea of what it was like before, you wouldn't be posting things like that.
I'm just as sad as you ... but not because I wear the rose-colored shades. I've always supported this game .. and this arena ... even when I was out of it. But I know what frustration is when I see it. I'm pretty sure I know a better way to deal with it, too. ;)
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guthrie just needs to keep explaining away why he points his nose at the enemy for the HO. think he'd learn after loosing at so much...
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guthrie just needs to keep explaining away why he points his nose at the enemy for the HO. think he'd learn after loosing at so much...
"Losing"
That's right ... make up something if you really got nothing. :D
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well i actually haven't run into you in the AvA in at least 4 or 5 rounds. but sure enough last time i did it was avoiding your crappy HO attempt and setting you up for the easy kill.
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well i actually haven't run into you in the AvA in at least 4 or 5 rounds. but sure enough last time i did it was avoiding your crappy HO attempt and setting you up for the easy kill.
Four or five rounds? That sounds like it mighta been the first day of my return after three plus years. Wasn't as memorable a moment for me as you but for that, I suppose. Were you borg 3 of 5 that day? Cause Frankly, Charlotte ...
:D :salute
Carry on with those careful observations.
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We are the Borg. You will adapt to service us. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.
How can I remember that but yet I can walk down a hallway and have no idea why I did it...
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Did what? Who're you again? ;)
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We are the Borg. You will adapt to service us. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.
How can I remember that but yet I can walk down a hallway and have no idea why I did it...
Al yur braincells R belong 2 us.
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Did what? Who're you again? ;)
(cough)
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We're talking memory here. Ahem. :salute