Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: shoresroad on April 14, 2014, 03:49:40 PM
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When I play single player WWII flight Sims I enjoy the external views while in transit. I enjoy watching the formations, skins and scenery from all the different angles. When fighting I never use external views as I would rather be in the cockpit and I can see no advantage to external views when fighting. If I switch to them I am suddenly disoriented and I never use them even though I can.
With TrackIR and the 6k icon range in the MA I almost never sneak up on anyone nor does anyone sneak up on me. Just wondering what the rational is for no external views for fighters in the MA. Did someone master the external chase view to a huge advantage? I would feel at a disadvantage trying to fight in an external view but would enjoy the scenery when in transit so just curious on the history of this. Was it tried but didn't work out?
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Because flying in 3rd person (external) view is very arcade like and no place in a sim based game.
ack-ack
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I think F3 should be available if you are auto pilot. That way you can see if a Peeee-38 is diving on you while you sip your scotch while autoclimbing.....
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Blind spots are part of air combat. That's why padlock breaks in AH. With F3 there are no blind spots.
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The only time I take to get a good look at fighter skins is when sitting on the runway waiting for squaddies to show up if we are grouping up. They are pretty cool and a lot of effort goes into them. I don't know if there is a solution, but it would be nice if we could look at them during the time it takes to get to and back from a fight. Important? Not really, but its almost like a waste of all the time and detail that guys spend on them. There's a lot of down time while in flight and adjusting sounds, looking for NOE raids and watching guys rant on 200 only fills so much.
The only solution I see is F3 available if no enemy is within a certain range, but then getting snapped back into cockpit view would save a lot of daydreaming pilots.
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With practice F3 can be used for advantage both offensively and defensively. It just doesn't belong in a sim, sorry.
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When I play single player WWII flight Sims I enjoy the external views while in transit. I enjoy watching the formations, skins and scenery from all the different angles. When fighting I never use external views as I would rather be in the cockpit and I can see no advantage to external views when fighting. If I switch to them I am suddenly disoriented and I never use them even though I can.
With TrackIR and the 6k icon range in the MA I almost never sneak up on anyone nor does anyone sneak up on me. Just wondering what the rational is for no external views for fighters in the MA. Did someone master the external chase view to a huge advantage? I would feel at a disadvantage trying to fight in an external view but would enjoy the scenery when in transit so just curious on the history of this. Was it tried but didn't work out?
Because you can get a huge advantage on lead shots, easy views, and it's unrealistic and cheesy. I know for a fact that most of the defensive tactics I use make it extremely difficult to hit me because I use the front nose blind spot to give them a hard shot and so I can set up a reverse maneuver. It's part of ACM and makes the game more realistic and challenging.
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EX view on bombers can be a good friend
I just like viewing my formation of friendlies and taking screenshots....
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p659/XxDaSTaRXx/ahss141_zps99736f24.png)
(incoming "External View Dweeb" replies)
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You can always fire up the film viewer afterward. I like to do that after a good fight, and check out the damage to my plane.
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The only time I take to get a good look at fighter skins is when sitting on the runway waiting for squaddies to show up if we are grouping up. They are pretty cool and a lot of effort goes into them. I don't know if there is a solution, but it would be nice if we could look at them during the time it takes to get to and back from a fight. Important? Not really, but its almost like a waste of all the time and detail that guys spend on them. There's a lot of down time while in flight and adjusting sounds, looking for NOE raids and watching guys rant on 200 only fills so much.
The only solution I see is F3 available if no enemy is within a certain range, but then getting snapped back into cockpit view would save a lot of daydreaming pilots.
TA or film...
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Fps 14?
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Fps 14?
Itsa real spicy meatball!! :banana:
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Itsa real spicy meatball!! :banana:
? :rofl
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Fps 14?
Operation Object Overload.
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Fps 14?
Usually a constant 59/60 normally on higher end graphics settings, but that strat raid made my computer whine.
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When I play single player WWII flight Sims I enjoy the external views while in transit. I enjoy watching the formations, skins and scenery from all the different angles. When fighting I never use external views as I would rather be in the cockpit and I can see no advantage to external views when fighting. If I switch to them I am suddenly disoriented and I never use them even though I can.
With TrackIR and the 6k icon range in the MA I almost never sneak up on anyone nor does anyone sneak up on me. Just wondering what the rational is for no external views for fighters in the MA. Did someone master the external chase view to a huge advantage? I would feel at a disadvantage trying to fight in an external view but would enjoy the scenery when in transit so just curious on the history of this. Was it tried but didn't work out?
Go to the DA if you want to fly in F-3 mode. About everyone in there is using it even if they protest to the contrary. Your are correct flying in F-3 mode is a huge advantage and it is how DA pilots make those fantastic deflection shots you never see in the MA not even out the best of pilots in the MA. F-3 mode is like using a garden whose, All you do is turn it on and adjust it onto the target only instead of water it is cannon rounds. I hate F-3 in the DA and sure don't want it in the MA. :mad:
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Go to the DA if you want to fly in F-3 mode. About everyone in there is using it even if they protest to the contrary. Your are correct flying in F-3 mode is a huge advantage and it is how DA pilots make those fantastic deflection shots you never see in the MA not even out the best of pilots in the MA. F-3 mode is like using a garden whose, All you do is turn it on and adjust it onto the target only instead of water it is cannon rounds. I hate F-3 in the DA and sure don't want it in the MA. :mad:
QFT
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Go to the DA if you want to fly in F-3 mode. About everyone in there is using it even if they protest to the contrary. Your are correct flying in F-3 mode is a huge advantage and it is how DA pilots make those fantastic deflection shots you never see in the MA not even out the best of pilots in the MA. F-3 mode is like using a garden whose, All you do is turn it on and adjust it onto the target only instead of water it is cannon rounds. I hate F-3 in the DA and sure don't want it in the MA. :mad:
All 100% true. In addition it is how those same DA pilots manage to bob and weave at JUST the right moment to dodge your fire as you are chasing them back to their base.
It would be a really bad idea to allow F3 in the MA.
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All 100% true. In addition it is how those same DA pilots manage to bob and weave at JUST the right moment to dodge your fire as you are chasing them back to their base.
It would be a really bad idea to allow F3 in the MA.
:aok
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Furball lake is fun and I enjoy spending time there every now and then but I never use F3 and I never will. The truely good pilots who frequent Furball Lake (e.g. iKo, TA57x, etc) don't use F3 either. But the vast majority of DA pilots rely on their crutches. FYI - it's rather easy to tell who is and who isn't using F3 for the reasons mentioned above.
If you want to take one action that would make AH more like War Thunder, giving everyone inflight F3 in the main arenas would be it. Sorry...it's just a horrible idea.
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Go to the DA if you want to fly in F-3 mode. About everyone in there is using it even if they protest to the contrary. Your are correct flying in F-3 mode is a huge advantage and it is how DA pilots make those fantastic deflection shots you never see in the MA not even out the best of pilots in the MA. F-3 mode is like using a garden whose, All you do is turn it on and adjust it onto the target only instead of water it is cannon rounds. I hate F-3 in the DA and sure don't want it in the MA. :mad:
On the contrary, if you don't practice in F3 mode you are worse off switching to it for air combat maneuvering. So I don't use it during engagements in the DA because I would lose orientation.
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Furball lake is fun and I enjoy spending time there every now and then but I never use F3 and I never will. The truely good pilots who frequent Furball Lake (e.g. iKo, TA57x, etc) don't use F3 either. But the vast majority of DA pilots rely on their crutches. FYI - it's rather easy to tell who is and who isn't using F3 for the reasons mentioned above.
If you want to take one action that would make AH more like War Thunder, giving everyone inflight F3 in the main arenas would be it. Sorry...it's just a horrible idea.
LOL, I had no idea F3 was available in the DA. Will not use it anyway. I go to the DA for practice. I want the other guy to have the plane, alt and even F3 advantage. I tickles me to go to the DA and see so many at 10,000 feet. Why in the world would you want to go that high in place made to make fighting easier.
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(http://s400.photobucket.com/user/rheine89/media/when-godzilla-facepalms-godzilla-facepalm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1279436527.jpg.html)
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LOL, I had no idea F3 was available in the DA. Will not use it anyway. I go to the DA for practice. I want the other guy to have the plane, alt and even F3 advantage. I tickles me to go to the DA and see so many at 10,000 feet. Why in the world would you want to go that high in place made to make fighting easier.
Fighting with altitude is not the same as fighting on the deck. Maybe they want to learn how to fight at 10k.
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Fighting with altitude is not the same as fighting on the deck. Maybe they want to learn how to fight at 10k.
QFT. The reason I do so. I also only engage people co alt or higher for the same reason.
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When I play single player WWII flight Sims I enjoy the external views while in transit. I enjoy watching the formations, skins and scenery from all the different angles. When fighting I never use external views as I would rather be in the cockpit and I can see no advantage to external views when fighting. If I switch to them I am suddenly disoriented and I never use them even though I can.
With TrackIR and the 6k icon range in the MA I almost never sneak up on anyone nor does anyone sneak up on me. Just wondering what the rational is for no external views for fighters in the MA. Did someone master the external chase view to a huge advantage? I would feel at a disadvantage trying to fight in an external view but would enjoy the scenery when in transit so just curious on the history of this. Was it tried but didn't work out?
I thought you quit.
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Go to the DA if you want to fly in F-3 mode. About everyone in there is using it even if they protest to the contrary. Your are correct flying in F-3 mode is a huge advantage and it is how DA pilots make those fantastic deflection shots you never see in the MA not even out the best of pilots in the MA. F-3 mode is like using a garden whose, All you do is turn it on and adjust it onto the target only instead of water it is cannon rounds. I hate F-3 in the DA and sure don't want it in the MA. :mad:
Neo: What are you trying to tell me, that I can dodge bullets?
Morpheus: No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready... you won't have to.
F3... pfftt
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I thought you quit.
Hi Cashew,
I did for six months, but I just came back to fly FSO mostly with a little practice time in the MA :aok
No more Rough Puppies though :bolt:
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The squirrels with cameras are for your protection! :old:
(http://media.techeblog.com/images/animals_cameras.jpg)
(http://students.ou.edu/D/Cecilia.V.De-Ugarte-Cabrera-1/994Squirrel_Shoots_Back.jpg)
(http://gallery.treeo.com/images/sepia.jpg)
(http://www.photographingsquirrels.com/11squirrel/shelco400.jpg)
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I was trying to post this: http://s400.photobucket.com/user/rheine89/media/when-godzilla-facepalms-godzilla-facepalm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1279436527.jpg.html?#/user/rheine89/media/when-godzilla-facepalms-godzilla-facepalm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1279436527.jpg.html?&_suid=139762194625805290511593054745 (http://s400.photobucket.com/user/rheine89/media/when-godzilla-facepalms-godzilla-facepalm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1279436527.jpg.html?#/user/rheine89/media/when-godzilla-facepalms-godzilla-facepalm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1279436527.jpg.html?&_suid=139762194625805290511593054745) but, contrary to the advice given, I can never seem to get an image to show here.
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I was trying to post this: http://s400.photobucket.com/user/rheine89/media/when-godzilla-facepalms-godzilla-facepalm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1279436527.jpg.html?#/user/rheine89/media/when-godzilla-facepalms-godzilla-facepalm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1279436527.jpg.html?&_suid=139762194625805290511593054745 (http://s400.photobucket.com/user/rheine89/media/when-godzilla-facepalms-godzilla-facepalm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1279436527.jpg.html?#/user/rheine89/media/when-godzilla-facepalms-godzilla-facepalm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1279436527.jpg.html?&_suid=139762194625805290511593054745) but, contrary to the advice given, I can never seem to get an image to show here.
(http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp83/rheine89/when-godzilla-facepalms-godzilla-facepalm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1279436527.jpg)
If you are using Mozilla, right click on image and choose "Copy URL". I think IE says "Copy Link Location" or something similar...its been years since I used IE. That's what you need to copy between the "img" tags.
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Thank you for that. I was trying to just grab the URL from the bar.
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When fighting I never use external views as I would rather be in the cockpit and I can see no advantage to external views when fighting. If I switch to them I am suddenly disoriented and I never use them even though I can.
I toyed with external views in the Da once. I too have track ir but with one button i can turn off track ir and look down from external view and see below my aircraft without rolling it, shift that same button and be back to normal track ir mode.. I can see how someone who practices this would have great advantage at tracking the enemy with multiple views, especially setting one up for trail view (enemies view).... hence why there seems to be so many challenges to DA, when you could simply up in the MA and meet between bases.
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.... hence why there seems to be so many challenges to DA, when you could simply up in the MA and meet between bases.
This is a stretch. Challenges should go to the DA because the fields are close and it's common for people to ask for and receive no interference. Besides, keeping track of a single con in a duel shouldn't be hard, so I'm not sure what advantage F3 users are getting from it.
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Besides, keeping track of a single con in a duel shouldn't be hard, so I'm not sure what advantage F3 users are getting from it.
That was my thought, but no big deal. Was just asking. I guess I don't practice that hard, thus my score :lol I just have a "get in the cockpit and let's go" attitude when fighting, but was wanting to enjoy the scenary, formations, and skins when not :)
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This is a stretch. Challenges should go to the DA because the fields are close and it's common for people to ask for and receive no interference. Besides, keeping track of a single con in a duel shouldn't be hard, so I'm not sure what advantage F3 users are getting from it.
Agreed. It's more of an advantage when facing multiple cons or if one is running and wants to "Do a Neo" while doing so:
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/4588200/neo-dodging-bullets-o.gif)
Neither should be an issue in a 1v1 duel. :)
EDIT: I'm pretty sure I have film of someone in the DA dodging my shots as I chase him back to his base. It's pretty amazing how good he was at anticipating where my shots would be and was able to dodge away at JUST the last second. Just uncanny! :rofl
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This is a stretch. Challenges should go to the DA because the fields are close and it's common for people to ask for and receive no interference. Besides, keeping track of a single con in a duel shouldn't be hard, so I'm not sure what advantage F3 users are getting from it.
I see quite a few fields close in the ma and have met people in the clear and called off teammates with no problem. I have been gaming since they started games and believe me incredible crazy stuff that seems impossible, is... that is where the term "gaming the game" (original form of hacking, where in you bypass the intended spirit of the game due to allowances in its coding or design) comes from. War Thunder and others do just that (F3), so some people must be quite adept at it. Kinda like putting a red dot in the center of your screen for FPS aiming,
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I see quite a few fields close in the ma and have met people in the clear and called off teammates with no problem. I have been gaming since they started games and believe me incredible crazy stuff that seems impossible, is... that is where the term "gaming the game" (original form of hacking, where in you bypass the intended spirit of the game due to allowances in its coding or design) comes from. War Thunder and others do just that (F3), so some people must be quite adept at it. Kinda like putting a red dot in the center of your screen for FPS aiming,
I'm sure some might take advantage of F3 for a 1v1 duel...but I have to agree with Triton that it would not be very advantageous to do so in a close quarters 1v1 DA knife fight. Only advantage I see is if you lost sight of the other guy. If that occurs you are likely going to be towered before your finger can hit F3 if the other guy is a decent duelist.
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I see quite a few fields close in the ma and have met people in the clear and called off teammates with no problem.
So have I, but it's not to be expected. I've asked people to stay out and they just kept coming. While it's still entirely possible to get some tool following you around in the DA, it's far more rare. Less people and those that are there are usually understanding if you want some 1v1 time.
I have been gaming since they started games and believe me incredible crazy stuff that seems impossible, is... that is where the term "gaming the game" (original form of hacking, where in you bypass the intended spirit of the game due to allowances in its coding or design) comes from. War Thunder and others do just that (F3), so some people must be quite adept at it. Kinda like putting a red dot in the center of your screen for FPS aiming,
If you're out flying the person you're dueling against, it's not going to matter what view mode he's in. If you're flying a best of 5 or 7, it's not going to matter if he makes one incredible F3 aided shot. It will come out in the wash who was the better pilot that day.
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Players that use the "I won't go to the DA because of F3" are using that as an excuse to mask their lack of cajones.
ack-ack
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Besides, keeping track of a single con in a duel shouldn't be hard, so I'm not sure what advantage F3 users are getting from it.
The potential to greatly increase defensive and deflection shooting abilities is definitely there.
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The potential to greatly increase defensive and deflection shooting abilities is definitely there.
I agree it could help in a multi con engagement. Just widening the FOV alone helps that, but how does it help in a 1v1? I could count on one hand the times I've actually lost someone in a duel, and off the top of my head all of those were because my view hat/TrackIR messed up.
As for shooting, like I said above, one F3 miracle shot shouldn't sink you in a duel if you're a better toon pilot than the other guy. But I suppose if F3 is really that big of a boogeyman, you could always stipulate the other pilot film his views. Fraps, ShadowPlay, and Afterburner are free and a pretty quick download.
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The potential to greatly increase defensive and deflection shooting abilities is definitely there.
It would not help in a 1v1... hence my last post..
I'd bet a majority of good 1v1r's would back me on this.. Take 2 even opponents.. force one to fly F3.. they will not be even any longer.. The F3 guy will lose majority.. I'm not saying one couldn't learn to do well in F3 mode.. I'm just saying prolly more that 98% of the crowd I'm referring to wouldn't bother.. In F3 view they would lose all feelings of timing, position, and angles..
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Fighting with altitude is not the same as fighting on the deck. Maybe they want to learn how to fight at 10k.
exactly..... 9 times outta 10 those fights usually end up dancing down in the bushes.
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See Rule #4
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Not cool, dude....even in jest.
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It would not help in a 1v1... hence my last post..
I'd bet a majority of good 1v1r's would back me on this.. Take 2 even opponents.. force one to fly F3.. they will not be even any longer.. The F3 guy will lose majority.. I'm not saying one couldn't learn to do well in F3 mode.. I'm just saying prolly more that 98% of the crowd I'm referring to wouldn't bother.. In F3 view they would lose all feelings of timing, position, and angles..
Not fly F3 mode solely! I think that you could rig a button for a snap shot view from front to rear... see through the seat back that way, the whole tail for that matter. No need to side slip and waste E. Snapshot when con passes under u, again, retain your E with no aircraft movement. Also trac-ir seems to have a blind spot just aft of straight up, again a possible snapshot for a cure.
I don't bother with it (DA), was just wondering why on more that one occasion, while a vulcher is circling from a nearby base, with no one else around, the DA challenge goes up. I by no means know much about 1v1 in the DA, just curious why even have it at all (in any arena), for fighters in the air. It's there for a reason!!
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See Rule #4
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I am done with this, it degenerated... peace out. I won't be back
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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It would not help in a 1v1... hence my last post..
I'd bet a majority of good 1v1r's would back me on this.. Take 2 even opponents.. force one to fly F3.. they will not be even any longer.. The F3 guy will lose majority.. I'm not saying one couldn't learn to do well in F3 mode.. I'm just saying prolly more that 98% of the crowd I'm referring to wouldn't bother.. In F3 view they would lose all feelings of timing, position, and angles..
You or I would, because every trained instinct we have is orientating the fight from inside the cockpit. Someone accustomed to using F3, I am not so sure this is true. Of course, they would be lost themselves as soon as they were forced into a locked cockpit.
I've done the base defense with buff things a bit, and it seems to me like F3 has some potentials that just don't exist in a locked cockpit such as 1. Being able to simply "fly around" where their nose is aiming for gun defense in a manner difficult or impossible from the cockpit. (Difficult one to explain clearly, but a lot of guns defense in the furball lake in fighters certainly consists of exactly this) 2. Being able to track EXACTLY where they go during an overshoot, even if it would be in a "blind spot" from a locked cockpit view 3. Being able to keep sight of the bandit even when they are in cold-side lag/low six positions-this is what makes #1 possible, and 3. Being able to keep sight of both the bandit and the tracer stream in extreme blind-lead shots.
So, no external views for the MA, and I don't really see why they exist in the DA.
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-1 to this wish.
Should be removed from Da also
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Hi Cashew,
I did for six months, but I just came back to fly FSO mostly with a little practice time in the MA :aok
No more Rough Puppies though :bolt:
You should find me man. Miss my old friend!!! :salute
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Not fly F3 mode solely! I think that you could rig a button for a snap shot view from front to rear... see through the seat back that way, the whole tail for that matter. No need to side slip and waste E. Snapshot when con passes under u, again, retain your E with no aircraft movement. Also trac-ir seems to have a blind spot just aft of straight up, again a possible snapshot for a cure.
I'll just say imo I don't believe one would have time/need to switch to F3 to ck6 in a 1v1.. In reality, if you're looking for the opponent in blind spots on your 6, you're already dead...
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You or I would, because every trained instinct we have is orientating the fight from inside the cockpit. Someone accustomed to using F3, I am not so sure this is true. Of course, they would be lost themselves as soon as they were forced into a locked cockpit.
I've done the base defense with buff things a bit, and it seems to me like F3 has some potentials that just don't exist in a locked cockpit such as 1. Being able to simply "fly around" where their nose is aiming for gun defense in a manner difficult or impossible from the cockpit. (Difficult one to explain clearly, but a lot of guns defense in the furball lake in fighters certainly consists of exactly this) 2. Being able to track EXACTLY where they go during an overshoot, even if it would be in a "blind spot" from a locked cockpit view 3. Being able to keep sight of the bandit even when they are in cold-side lag/low six positions-this is what makes #1 possible, and 3. Being able to keep sight of both the bandit and the tracer stream in extreme blind-lead shots.
So, no external views for the MA, and I don't really see why they exist in the DA.
Yea, i use f3 in bombers for sure.. For instance an A20.. I'll use F3 to see someone coming up behind but the second I start to maneuver I'm back in the cockpit just for proper orientation..
Don't misunderstand me, F3 could be a learned ability.. My only point is the better 1v1r's wouldn't bother and it would end up being a negative if they tried.. The cockpit guy will win majority.. I guess we could find whomever thinks they are the best F3 dueler and we'll find who the best cockpit dueler is.. Sunsfan at the moment.. Let'em go at it and see how it falls.. lol
Maybe I was taking a poke at the non-dueling nancys that cry F3 a little too.. 8)
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I'll just say imo I don't believe one would have time/need to switch to F3 to ck6 in a 1v1.. In reality, if you're looking for the opponent in blind spots on your 6, you're already dead...
Haven't caught all of this conversation, but with macros you don't need any extra time. You could program an f3 macro to a single key that checked six in f3 and goes right back to f1 when you release.
As for f3 being an advantage or not, it is! The reason most can't see/understand that is because of comparative pilot skill levels. I know of a couple of fairly talented F3 sticks that did/do fly the DA, When I have found them in the MA, their skill level is noticeably less.
F3 has no place in the MA except for bombers. Don't care for it in the DA either.
-1
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F3 has no place in the MA except for bombers. Don't care for it in the DA either.
I'm not sure it even has a place in bombers. The idea is that it simulates the eyes of all those crewmen in the bombers. The problem is the bombers in AHII AIN'T being manned by multiple crew, they are being manned by one guy, rarely two. Simulation compromises that allow one player to do the work of what was in reality 30 seems pretty unbalanced. It's not like you're given an AI wing-man or anything when you fly fighter. In any case, the way you can fly and track bandits on your six using F3 in the more maneuverable bombers, it is nothing like having a guy back there shouting "Hey there's a bandit coming in!", it goes way beyond that.
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Haven't caught all of this conversation, but with macros you don't need any extra time. You could program an f3 macro to a single key that checked six in f3 and goes right back to f1 when you release.
As for f3 being an advantage or not, it is! The reason most can't see/understand that is because of comparative pilot skill levels. I know of a couple of fairly talented F3 sticks that did/do fly the DA, When I have found them in the MA, their skill level is noticeably less.
F3 has no place in the MA except for bombers. Don't care for it in the DA either.
-1
:aok
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No to F3 for fighters in the MA. If I want to play WT, I'll go play WT. :bolt:
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No to F3 for fighters in the MA. If I want to play WT, I'll go play WT. :bolt:
Agreed.
(Also, if you're playing WT in a mode where 3rd person is enabled, you're not really playing WT)
Simulator battles are like the AVA... very few fly it because very few can handle the work load.
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When I play single player WWII flight Sims I enjoy the external views while in transit. I enjoy watching the formations, skins and scenery from all the different angles. When fighting I never use external views as I would rather be in the cockpit and I can see no advantage to external views when fighting. If I switch to them I am suddenly disoriented and I never use them even though I can.
With TrackIR and the 6k icon range in the MA I almost never sneak up on anyone nor does anyone sneak up on me. Just wondering what the rational is for no external views for fighters in the MA. Did someone master the external chase view to a huge advantage? I would feel at a disadvantage trying to fight in an external view but would enjoy the scenery when in transit so just curious on the history of this. Was it tried but didn't work out?
in my old game (Fighter Ace) while in transit I would leave my view in what would best be described as a "external fly by" mode.... Perhaps AH could come with something similar because it did give a pretty cool view of the plane and I don't see how anyone could gain any sort of advantage attempting to use it in a dogfight. This view when you were flying straight would have you suspended out in front of your plane and would track it as it flew right by you, then reset again out in front of you.... Call me weird but that view never really got old to me.
:salute Nishizawa
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This view when you were flying straight would have you suspended out in front of your plane and would track it as it flew right by you, then reset again out in front of you.... Call me weird but that view never really got old to me.
I don't think it's weird, I think it would be rather cool to have :old:
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A "fly by" view would be a great compromise. You certainly couldn't fight from it, and the quick peak of an enemy con you might get once in a while would be a small trade-off for much better immersion IMO.
A fixed 3/4 angle external view from slightly above and behind your plane would also work well I would think. With all this new eye candy terrain coming I don't want to have to fly bombers to enjoy it.
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You are asking for views that pilots don't have.
External aircraft views are available flying in formation. :D
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You are asking for views that pilots don't have.
WWII pilots didn't see plane icons at 6k either or have radar maps to guide them with laser precision, but they are optional in game because they make the game more fun for some. If external views are designed that offer no real advantage in dogfighting but more fun when not dogfighting then they might be a low effort/high return add to the game. And being optional, a player wouldn't have to use them if they didn't like them.
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Seeing your blind spots is an advantage in dogfighting.
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I have no desire for F3 available during a fight, but would like to be able to enjoy the great skins folks create on the long climb-outs or when rtb. I'm betting there's a way to have cake and eat it too.
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No. You can see by looking around without F3. You can see everywhere around your plane. You will have to turn so you can see udner you or when an aircraft could be in your "straight and level blindspot". If you are too lazy to look around like this then i want that to be your disadvantage. By looking around like this you will lose some e as your aircraft slows while turning. I don't want to lose that part of the gameplay and it will be gone with F3 view.
When I have worked to put myself in a position where you do not easily see me coming early because you aren't manuvering to look around, I don't want you in F3 mode because I wont be able to tell if you are looking in your non F3 blindspot.
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I have no desire for F3 available during a fight, but would like to be able to enjoy the great skins folks create on the long climb-outs or when rtb. I'm betting there's a way to have cake and eat it too.
You want to fly in F3 and then automatically pop into your cockpit when a bandit gets near you? You seeing any advantage there?
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Dar-bar tells us when enemies are in our sector. F3 could be enabled when no enemies are in our sector. At the same moment dar-bar shows enemies in the sector where we are flying F3 is disabled. Otherwise F3 is enabled. Does that work? The indication of enemy cons happens at the same instant: darbar and loss of F3.
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Dar-bar tells us when enemies are in our sector. F3 could be enabled when no enemies are in our sector. At the same moment dar-bar shows enemies in the sector where we are flying F3 is disabled. Otherwise F3 is enabled. Does that work?
So most of your flying time F3 would be unavailable...
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Darbar only tells us there are enemies in our sector SOMETIMES, not always.
You know what works? Flying gentle S curves and keeping your thumb moving on the hat stick.
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So most of your flying time F3 would be unavailable...
I usually up 1 sector away from a fight or base take. Sometimes I escort bombers (they did that in WWII). Lots of time to enjoy F3 during the climb out and in transit.
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I usually up 1 sector away from a fight or base take.
*Shrug* I have nothing against external views with that sort of limitations, just kinda doubt it will get coaded along with all the other stuff their is to be done.
Sometimes I escort bombers (they did that in WWII).
Ah, but here in AHII buffs are more lethal than fighters, so it's a pointless mission. And what buffs do in the MA is bang hangars and sink CVs, therefore preventing you from having any fodder for your fighter guns, therefore anything that increases their chance of survival is counter-productive to having fun anyway. Escorts are basically superfulous, and I've actually seen fighters running TO bombers to save them more than once.
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if you want to fly an F3 go hang out with the DA Queens who fly in F3.
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if you want to fly an F3 go hang out with the DA Queens who fly in F3.
Nope, don't want it for fighting.
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You want to fly in F3 and then automatically pop into your cockpit when a bandit gets near you? You seeing any advantage there?
Obviously you could day dream and get saved when the game pops you back in the cockpit due to the enemy that otherwise would have snuck up on you. Or, when searching for a goon or a lone strat raider, getting popped back in could tell you you are getting warmer.
Plenty of smart folks here and HTC has smart people. Smart people figure out how to make things work. Maybe the range is 10 miles or 20 miles so its not much different than seeing a dar bar. Maybe icons and plane control are disabled in external as well. Maybe during a brainstorm session a great solution gets thrown out there by the guy delivering king crab or prime rib at the catered lunches at HTC.
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in my old game (Fighter Ace) while in transit I would leave my view in what would best be described as a "external fly by" mode.... Perhaps AH could come with something similar because it did give a pretty cool view of the plane and I don't see how anyone could gain any sort of advantage attempting to use it in a dogfight.
It could give you warning of an a/c coming up behind you.
A "fly by" view would be a great compromise. You certainly couldn't fight from it, and the quick peak of an enemy con you might get once in a while would be a small trade-off for much better immersion IMO.
No you couldn't fight with it, but you still got a warning when you might have died otherwise.
I want to be immersed in a more realistic flying challenges, your idea of immersion brings me closer to Nintendo.
WWII pilots didn't see plane icons at 6k either
No, some could see aircraft at 40-50 miles. The rest could see them much farther away than 6k. It's a game limitation, not an over estimate of eyesight if that's what you are trying to suggest.
Plus IRL, eyesight can distinguish a thousand times more detail than HTC can model in this game. So again, we are limited by graphics in game, not given super human abilities; icons are the only solution at this point.
or have radar maps to guide them with laser precision, but they are optional in game because they make the game more fun for some.
It's good you understand that critical point. Dar bars and radar provide a way to find faster action, that is their primary purpose and without considerable game changes they are invaluable.
If external views are designed that offer no real advantage in dogfighting
There is no way to accomplish this for several reasons already posted.
I have no desire for F3 available during a fight, but would like to be able to enjoy the great skins folks create on the long climb-outs or when rtb. I'm betting there's a way to have cake and eat it too.
There is, the film viewer.
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I want to be immersed in a more realistic flying challenges, your idea of immersion brings me closer to Nintendo.
Then don't use the view. Since you can't see my monitor I doubt it would bother you if I do.
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It could give you warning of an a/c coming up behind you.
Disable it in any grid with dar.
I can assure you that my suggestion wasn't in any way intended to gain any sort of advantage or reduce immersion. It's only intent was to offer a potential compromise solution to a player request.... A player who's opinion is every bit as valuable as yours.
For the the record, I love me some immersion... hence my historical namesake choice. But as I said, that feature never got old to me and I never sought to gain any advantage from it.
:salute Nishizawa
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I like the idea, Nishizawa.
I'd like to see arena flags for that option, settings that;
- Makes all aircraft invisible when you have the 'fly-by' enabled.
- Makes all enemy aircraft invisible when you have 'fly-by' enabled.
- Makes all aircraft visible when you have 'fly-by' enabled.
This way, the MA could have a setting different from scenarios, while still allowing pictures to be captured in custom arenas.
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I like the idea, Nishizawa.
I'd like to see arena flags for that option, settings that;
- Makes all aircraft invisible when you have the 'fly-by' enabled.
- Makes all enemy aircraft invisible when you have 'fly-by' enabled.
- Makes all aircraft visible when you have 'fly-by' enabled.
This way, the MA could have a setting different from scenarios, while still allowing pictures to be captured in custom arenas.
:headscratch:
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no.
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Then don't use the view. Since you can't see my monitor I doubt it would bother you if I do.
It would if you gained any advantage from it. Ever. Even by accident.
I don't make it a point to sneak up on my victims because I don't worry about the outcome no matter what advantage they have. Even F3. I play against F3 girls all the time and it doesn't make much difference. Any difference to me really.
My concern is for the integrity of the game and for others who choose to play it because it's a step above the rest, not 'Sega's After Burner'
The cockpit view is specifically locked to create a challenge. Accept the challenge.
I can assure you that my suggestion wasn't in any way intended to gain any sort of advantage or reduce immersion.
I did not assume otherwise.
Disable it in any grid with dar.
How would it work around enemy CVs?
What if there is a NOE mission below dar? What if, despite the difficulty, they did stay below it and were in your vicinity while your F3 was enabled and you spotted them?
This is in no way an endorsement of NOE missions, but I'm sure you get the point.
It's only intent was to offer a potential compromise solution to a player request....
Your intent was clear the first time and I am all for compromises. I would not object to a reasonable suggestion, but there are none.
A player who's opinion is every bit as valuable as yours.
I am the LAST person on this forum that would knock an idea that is reasonable and good for the game.
If the compromise was made in a way that you could NEVER see an enemy while in F3 and never get any indication an enemy was near, including turning F3 off automatically at any distance, then have at it.
I don't believe anyone wants to fly that far away just to see their cartoon plane flying.
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*Shrug* I have nothing against external views with that sort of limitations, just kinda doubt it will get coaded along with all the other stuff their is to be done.
Ah, but here in AHII buffs are more lethal than fighters, so it's a pointless mission. And what buffs do in the MA is bang hangars and sink CVs, therefore preventing you from having any fodder for your fighter guns, therefore anything that increases their chance of survival is counter-productive to having fun anyway. Escorts are basically superfulous, and I've actually seen fighters running TO bombers to save them more than once.
Actually, if you look, IIRC, in E. Jablonski's book, "Flying Fortress" (am excellent book, imj - it included a lot of reference info from the B-17 in back, including manuals) you'll see a pic of an engine-out P-38 that has tucked itself safely into a formation of 17s.
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I wouldn't mind F3 being removed from everywhere (including bombers) except in the TA. :old:
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:aok
I wouldn't mind F3 being removed from everywhere (including bombers) except in the TA. :old:
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Actually, if you look, IIRC, in E. Jablonski's book, "Flying Fortress" (am excellent book, imj - it included a lot of reference info from the B-17 in back, including manuals) you'll see a pic of an engine-out P-38 that has tucked itself safely into a formation of 17s.
Well that's once, in a very special case. Not fighters diving towards the bombers they are supposed to be escorting, which are typically more dangerous than the fighters in Aces High.
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I won't disagree. I doubt irl that many bombers upped from airfields to serve as "gunships"/mobile ack. The speeds are a bit high w/r real cruising speeds as well.
What, in your opinion, accounts for the increased accuracy, in game, of bomber guns? Is it the lack of random aim-affecting "noise" (eg, structural vibration, aero gusts, etc) or is it something else?
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What, in your opinion, accounts for the increased accuracy, in game, of bomber guns? Is it the lack of random aim-affecting "noise" (eg, structural vibration, aero gusts, etc) or is it something else?
Exactly. For all intents and purposes, a flex-mounted gun on an airplane in auto-level is mounted on the ground. For example, in the WWI arena, the F.2B "Head on and then run away shooting from the observer's position" "experten"" are literally working with *half* the firepower of the other planes in the form of their rear mounted flex gun. Yet fighting them under those circumstances is a dangerous tossup at best, for all you have two guns to their one.
I also don't believe that 6-12 individual humans manning the guns and individually choosing targets would on average be as lethal as having all the guns slaved to the aim of one decent gunner, as is the case in AHII.
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:uhoh
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BnZ, easiest thing to do would be to introduce some low amplitude noise to each flex mount. This could likely be approximated or, better yet, you could actually get accel data or point mobility data for various locations in a test aircraft.
I like the idea of introducing real-life noise in any number of places within ah. For example, what if there were reliability data for the various major aircraft systems -on a type/model specific basis? Suddenly, the manufacturer of the aircraft makes a difference. I mean: I'm sure some guns/engines/airframes had better statistical reliability than others.
What about introducing low-amplitude noise to the local air velocity?
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BnZ, easiest thing to do would be to introduce some low amplitude noise to each flex mount. This could likely be approximated or, better yet, you could actually get accel data or point mobility data for various locations in a test aircraft.
I like the idea of introducing real-life noise in any number of places within ah. For example, what if there were reliability data for the various major aircraft systems -on a type/model specific basis? Suddenly, the manufacturer of the aircraft makes a difference. I mean: I'm sure some guns/engines/airframes had better statistical reliability than others.
What about introducing low-amplitude noise to the local air velocity?
The problem lies in the fact that the data is not available for many aircraft. HTC would need to hodgepodge it in there, making guesses or just standardizing on something like "fixed fuselage guns have no flex, wing guns have x flex, turret guns have y flex and flexible mounted guns have z flex."
The problem after that, using how bad the dispersion on B-17s were as a basis for effect in game, is convincing people to spend the time to use bombers other than perk farming for Ar234s and Mosquito Mk XVI's which bypass the whole issue.
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The problem lies in the fact that the data is not available for many aircraft. HTC would need to hodgepodge it in there, making guesses or just standardizing on something like "fixed fuselage guns have no flex, wing guns have x flex, turret guns have y flex and flexible mounted guns have z flex."
Of course. I'd take the bet, for example, that no such data exists for the flex mounts on a JU-88 or He-111. Doing testing on any surviving flying examples (thought there was an He-111 or two but I understand one of 'em bit the dust not too long ago) would be do-able, given unlimited cash and willing owners, probably neither of which obtain.
Ultimately, probably some uniformly-applied noise would be the most easily developed and most equitable. A man needs to dream, though...
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What, then, is the solution to the following problem? The one where bomber's ability to defend themselves is significantly reduced? If the K/D ratio for B-17Gs drops from 0.33/1 to 0.11/1 (and the He111's drops from 0.1/1 to 0.03/1) against fighters how do you motivate people to use bombers? The sorties generally take longer as it is. Reducing survival rates further seems a hard sell.
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Took my 2 sons (grade school age than) to see HE-111 at grass field when it was in Miss. Had Rolls Merlin engines..cookie sheets on ground under to help collect dripping oil. We got BIG tour..no one else there at the time..cockpit/bombader station, upper gun mount, vertical slots in bomb bay obvious in main cabin..
Heard it crashed on take-off year or so later..lost power..killed all crew aboard. Sad.
Had been Franco's private plane..only reason it survived that long..
JGroth
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What, then, is the solution to the following problem? The one where bomber's ability to defend themselves is significantly reduced? If the K/D ratio for B-17Gs drops from 0.33/1 to 0.11/1 (and the He111's drops from 0.1/1 to 0.03/1) against fighters how do you motivate people to use bombers? The sorties generally take longer as it is. Reducing survival rates further seems a hard sell.
You'd offset partially by also introducing noise, though of lower amplitude, to the fixed mounts. Then you'd increase the perks for bombing by the same factor of 3 by which you've reduced their survivability. Finally, you'd make perks perks, as opposed to segregated by class of aircraft.
Still, admittedly, a tough sell...