Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on July 25, 2018, 01:34:37 PM
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P-51D-15-NA, s/n 44-14651
"PIN UP GIRL" - L2*V
Lt. John C. Donnell, Jr.
479th Fighter Group, 434th Fighter Squadron
Wattisham, November 1944
This is P-51D "Pin Up Girl" of the 434th Fighter Squadron, 479th Fighter Group, flown by Lieutenant John C. Donnell, Jr. Originally painted for then-Lieutenant Berkley E. Hollister (four victories) by Sergeant Fred Hayner, the nose art initially included only the name. Hollister scored two victories with this airplane in August 1944. After Lt. Hollister's tour ended the aircraft was assigned to Lt. John C. Donnell, Jr. at which time the female figure was added to the nose art on the left cowling along with "Muriel of Troy" on the right (in honor of his wife and home town in New York). Lt. Donnell was shot down and killed by flak near Dreiskau on 14th February 1945. Captain Hollister died in December 2015 at the age of 95.
This skin was originally created by MachNix. I preserved his radiator scoop (slightly modified) and some nose art lettering as a hat tip to his work, though I had to change the colors on some letters to reflect those of the actual aircraft. The game compresses it, hence the slightly pixelated look to it. I don't know how to work around that other than making the letters larger (inaccurate) The female figure is taken from a close-up color photo and is thus Sgt. Heyer's "original work" in a sense.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393832.0;attach=30361)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393832.0;attach=30341)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393832.0;attach=30367)
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Before and after... Again, the lines are a new feature of the Skin Viewer that I cannot control.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393832.0;attach=30347)
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Looks damn good.
as for your question in the other thread about the wing stripe, it looks like the standard black wing stripe to me.
I guess your best bet would be to check and see if other squadron aircraft had theater stripes, since you can't seem to find more reference on this specific plane.
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Looks damn good.
Thanks man. Much appreciated.
as for your question in the other thread about the wing stripe, it looks like the standard black wing stripe to me.
I guess your best bet would be to check and see if other squadron aircraft had theater stripes, since you can't seem to find more reference on this specific plane.
Okay. I will wait and see if anything gets dug up before I submit it. I have seen other airplanes in the group WITHOUT the stripes (and even a couple where they were either totally or partially removed). The overwhelming majority of L2 coded airplane photos are without the stripes.
The photo of the nose art I posted is a very early version of the airplane as the female figure was added later. It's plausible that the wing stripes were removed by the time the airplane was shot down in 1945.
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There's a photo of "Pin Up Girl" in this book, and I'm pretty sure it's when the girl was painted on. Too bad lost this book years ago when my basement flooded.
https://www.amazon.com/P-51-Mustang-Aircraft-Larry-Davis/dp/0897473507/ref=sr_1_66?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1532546036&sr=1-66&keywords=p-51+mustang
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Oh that sucks.
:(
Well, maybe Lyric has it somewhere...
I have a couple of those Squadron Signal books around here, too (not that one), but I can't seem to find them due to my move. :D
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Devil505 and Vraciu, I have nearly 1,000 books in PDF format including just about everything from Signal Squadron
All different kinds of things ... WWI, WWII, Korean, Vietnam up into the 90's
Covering plane types of the different countries involved in both sides of the different wars
Covering the different battles/fights on different fronts
Covering the different types of Tanks and Armored vehicles
etc......
Let me know if you need something specific via PM..... and I will check to see if I have it and get it to ya
Hope this helps
TC
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Very kind of you TC. Thank you.
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I have the picture - will post shortly
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I have the picture - will post shortly
Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.
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That's a nice looking skin Vraciu.
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That's a nice looking skin Vraciu.
Thanks, bud. Much appreciated. :salute
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(http://warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/P-51D-Mustang-Pin-up-Girl-678x381.jpg)
Looking to find other 434 FS to see if they have the black inner wing stripe...
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Thank you for the help. <S>
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(http://www.americanairmuseum.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/media/media-27809.jpeg)
(http://www.americanairmuseum.com/sites/default/files/media/media-27810.jpeg)
434 squadron P-51's - looks like black strips to me..
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(http://www.americanairmuseum.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/media/media-27809.jpeg)
(http://www.americanairmuseum.com/sites/default/files/media/media-27810.jpeg)
434 squadron P-51's - looks like black strips to me..
Yes, but I have about fifty without them--one even has them removed except on the left elevator (the stab doesn't have them).
(http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/479th-fighter-squadron/l2-k6.jpg)
(http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/479th-fighter-squadron/l2-l2.jpg)
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/galleries/479th-fighter-squadron/nggallery/page/1
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/galleries/479th-fighter-squadron/nggallery/page/2
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/galleries/479th-fighter-squadron/nggallery/page/3
As time goes on you see no stripes. So this airplane may have had them when it was just PIN UP GIRL but may not have had them by the time the girl figure was added (and the other name on the right side which I have no photos of).
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(http://www.americanairmuseum.com/sites/default/files/media/media-26389.jpeg)
Another squad mate from 434 - Lt James A Bouchier's P-51D.
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I think it would be a good idea to date these photos, if possible.
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Could be a timing thing. The pictures you posted look like they have the rear-view mirrors on them - and since they were only operational just before D-day, could be a timeline thing? I'm guessing maybe the P-51's from early 45?
Major Olds P-51 pictured above (that one was SCAT#5) went through aircraft like mechanics go through sockets... and by war's end was flying #VII.
So, black-strip, no black-strip, depends on the timeline I guess.
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Could be a timing thing. The pictures you posted look like they have the rear-view mirrors on them - and since they were only operational just before D-day, could be a timeline thing? I'm guessing maybe the P-51's from early 45?
Major Olds P-51 pictured above (that one was SCAT#5) went through aircraft like mechanics go through sockets... and by war's end was flying #VII.
So, black-strip, no black-strip, depends on the timeline I guess.
(http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/479th-fighter-squadron/l2-m2.jpg)
(http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/479th-fighter-squadron/l2-r3.jpg)
(http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/479th-fighter-squadron/l2-s.jpg)
(http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/479th-fighter-squadron/l2-x.jpg)
No mirrors. No stripes.
Definitely they become rarer in 1945. "PIN UP GIRL" was downed that February.
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I think it would be a good idea to date these photos, if possible.
I don't see any dates. That American Air Museum website might have them though...
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I don't see any dates. That American Air Museum website might have them though...
Yeah, that is where I was doing my research - no dates but we do have something from the museum's website on the 434...
Lets focus on Olds' P-51's. Since Olds was assigned SCAT#5 in August WITH the black strip, and SCAT#5 with the 434 had the black stripe as did Bouchier's bird - and Bouchier lost that P-51D in December due to friendly-fire. Pin-Up-Girl was lost in the spring of 45. And I know for a fact that SCAT VII had no black stripe - she was assigned to Olds in the spring of 45. Therefore...
...it's probably a safe bet that PUG had no black stripe at the time she went down.
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Yeah, that is where I was doing my research - no dates but we do have something...
Lets focus on Olds' P-51's. Since Olds was assigned SCAT#5 in August WITH the black strip, and SCAT#5 with the 434 had the black stripe as did Bouchier's bird - and Bouchier lost that P-51D in December due to friendly-fire. Pin-Up-Girl was lost in the spring of 45. And I know for a fact that SCAT VII had no black stripe - she was assigned to Olds in the spring of 45. Therefore...
...it's probably a safe bet that PUG had no black stripe at the time she went down.
Seems reasonable to me, especially in light of photo evidence that shows stripes were removed. :cheers: :salute
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:aok
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From the 479th FG Group History. She clearly had depot applied black ID bands. Note the lack of serial number on the tail, probably removed when they painted the rudder color
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/pug3_zpslbldnjxj.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/pug3_zpslbldnjxj.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/pug2_zpsegtqgrii.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/pug2_zpsegtqgrii.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/pug4_zpsw8usvjhq.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/pug4_zpsw8usvjhq.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/pug1_zpsangnbw2e.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/pug1_zpsangnbw2e.jpg.html)
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Good find, but these are all before Lt. Donnell took over the airplane (and certainly well prior to his crash). What I really need more than anything is one that shows the girl AND the wing bands.
If only I could read the names on the fuselage. :bhead
Excellent photos. Some insight to be gained here. The red on the chin inlet is something I wanted to know. Same with the s/n. Also the V is unusual. Thank you. :aok
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The pilot in the above images is Hollister. This is Donnell. Pin up art there, black wing bands too.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Donnell_zpsi5npyrkc.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Donnell_zpsi5npyrkc.jpg.html)
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Gold mine. That’s what I needed.
Where did you find these?
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Understand that as new birds were sent to the groups they came to them with the latest Depot applied markings. That stopped in early 45 when they quit with the black bands. It didn't mean that planes all had them removed immediately. This was done as time and manpower allowed. All the photo evidence shows the standard Depot markings. As Donnell went down in January 45, the odds of them having been removed are slim considering the images are from December 44.
All the images are from the 479th FG history by Terry Fairfield.
Note the mention of the right side name which was "Murial from Troy", which was the crew chief's wife from Troy New York
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I’m aware that bands were not immediately removed. But with nothing else to go on I was leaning toward them having been removed based on photos showing that very thing done to other airplanes in the squadron. He was downed 15 February. It is still a possibility, but at this point academic as you have eliminated most of the need for conjecture with these pics. I can at least skin the bands knowing they were there at some point with the updated nose art.
Thanks for digging them up.
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I’m aware that bands were not immediately removed. But with nothing else to go on I was leaning toward them having been removed based on photos showing that very thing done to other airplanes in the squadron. He was downed 15 February. It is still a possibility, but at this point academic as you have eliminated most of the need for conjecture with these pics. I can at least skin the bands knowing they were there at some point with the updated nose art.
Thanks for digging them up.
+1 on that - it's now the skinners prerogative as most spring time 51's in the group had the bands removed. All the 434's had black bands on them upon arrival mid-44 - so Vraciu - what do you want to do? Black bands or not....still a great skin :aok
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+1 on that - it's now the skinners prerogative as most spring time 51's in the group had the bands removed. All the 434's had black bands on them upon arrival mid-44 - so Vraciu - what do you want to do? Black bands or not....still a great skin :aok
I can leave it to a vote. Lol
I think I know what Devil would say.
Now, are the invasion stripes on the belly still there?
Do Guppy or Lyric have any more treasure pics buried in their collections somewhere?
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I think I know what Devil would say.
well if you think that I'm in favor of having the black stripes, you would be right.
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well if you think that I'm in favor of having the black stripes, you would be right.
:D
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+1 for black stripes
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I will add them in. Won't be until after this version gets released though.
I need help with the belly stripes. Are they black-only?
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I will add them in. Won't be until after this version gets released though.
I need help with the belly stripes. Are they black-only?
Yes. Please note how far up the fuselage they are too. That was the depot applied last version. And yes this bird should have the ID bands. The photo evidence supports it.
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Yes. Please note how far up the fuselage they are too. That was the depot applied last version. And yes this bird should have the ID bands. The photo evidence supports it.
Black only with no white? What is that color ahead of the forward black stripe on the left fuselage? Just metal?
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P-51D-15-NA, s/n 44-14651
"PIN UP GIRL" - L2*V
Lt. John C. Donnell, Jr.
479th Fighter Group, 434th Fighter Squadron
Wattisham, November 1944
This is P-51D "Pin Up Girl" of the 434th Fighter Squadron, 479th Fighter Group, flown by Lieutenant John C. Donnell, Jr. Originally painted for then-Lieutenant Berkley E. Hollister (four victories) by Sergeant Fred Hayner, the nose art initially included only the name. Hollister scored two victories with this airplane in August 1944. After Lt. Hollister's tour ended the aircraft was assigned to Lt. John C. Donnell, Jr. at which time the female figure was added to the nose art on the left cowling along with "Muriel of Troy" on the right (in honor of his wife and home town in New York). Lt. Donnell was shot down and killed by flak near Dreiskau on 14th February 1945. Captain Hollister died in December 2015 at the age of 95.
Looks like the nose art was completed by the Squadron Painter SSGT Fredrick C. Hayner. "Muriel of Troy" was in honor of *HIS* wife, not Lt. Donnell's.
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Looks like the nose art was completed by the Squadron Painter SSGT Fredrick C. Hayner. "Muriel of Troy" was in honor of *HIS* wife, not Lt. Donnell's.
‘‘Tis what I said :)
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Black only with no white? What is that color ahead of the forward black stripe on the left fuselage? Just metal?
Just metal
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Just metal
Excellent. Thanks again.